Feel worse now than before MC today

[Hmcbart]

I feel like I bared my soul in MC today. I did bring up how my wife is planning to take the kids back to Texas for the month of July. She first said there really wasn't a plan and it was just something her and the boys had talked about.

Fast forward by 5 minutes and she was saying how they are planning to leave the first of July and come back at the end of the month. She went on and on about how I get to have all of them around 11 months out of the year so one month isn't a big deal because I will have to work anyway.

Unfortunately it was at the very end of the session and we really didn't discuss it to deeply. Other than me feeling upset about being left out of the decision process and my fear of a repeat of last year.

She was not happy that I brought it up because she feels I'm living in the past. She didn't say one word on the ride home and I doubt she will have much to say for a while other than typical silent treatment with a sprinkling of guilt and belittling thrown in for good measure.

We did schedule another sesdion for next week so that's a plus. I feel depressed after this one but I did share my feelings. I talked about the physical outbursts with the hitting and pinching. My wife said that I charged her while angry and told her to get out of my way or I would forcefully move her. I don't remember it happening that way of course but my charging was me trying to get out from being cornered in the closet.

Sigh... .I want to get off the ride now, I'm starting to get sick.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

 


   


I would focus on compromise for July.  She does not get to decide what matters to you.

It would also be wrong of you to say she can never go... .

Find middle ground... .doesn't have to be 50%... .exactly even.  The idea to enforce... is that you matter and you get to decide what matters to you

My input... .make plans with her and kids for early July.  Much easier to delay them leaving that enforce her coming back... .  I've lived this... .many... many times...



FF

[Hmcbart]

   


I would focus on compromise for July.  She does not get to decide what matters to you.

It would also be wrong of you to say she can never go... .

Find middle ground... .doesn't have to be 50%... .exactly even.  The idea to enforce... is that you matter and you get to decide what matters to you

My input... .make plans with her and kids for early July.  Much easier to delay them leaving that enforce her coming back... .  I've lived this... .many... many times...



FF

I thought about that. I told her I didn't like not having a say in the decision. Of course she says that I do have a say in them going back. I told her that I don't because if I say no and limit the time, she will make sure that I know how unhappy she is about it the entire time they are here. I told her all the things she does when she is unhappy about my decisions.

She didn't dispute it.

[Ceruleanblue]

Ah yes, they like to act as if you have a say, when in reality, you really don't. Or if they allow you to, you pay such a high price for it, and they make you pay in another way.

I too have found that marriage therapy is only somewhat helpful. I think our T is focusing on ME because he knows BPDh is in DBT therapy, and resistant to working on himself, so his focus in on me. Heck, BPDh nods off in therapy. T wants to focus on my reactions to BPDh's anger, but I don't quite know what he meant by that because I thought I was free in T to actually tell BPDh calmly what I think of how he talks down to me, and how I really feel when he blows up(he got angry in T too).

The issue I'm finding in marriage therapy is T's tend to want to split blame/fault down the middle. Two to tango, so to speak. Come on, even in marriage that don't involve PD, marriages are rarely split down the middle. Throw PD into that, and it's recipe for disaster. Maybe I could deal with BPDh's anger better(I'm doing my best and using what I've learned here), but how about some focus on the person with the bigger issue? Nope, they tend to focus on the NON. It's like "let's take the path of least resistance".

I'm trying to get what I can out of it, but it can be disheartening. Just know you are not alone.

[Hmcbart]

If the fault and blame were split down the middle, it would be a vast improvement. 

But yes my choice in the matter is basically do it my way or I'll make your life a living hell the entire time we're home.

The choice she gave me last year about our sex life and the lack of affection was similar. It will happen when I say it will and that's it. She then said I have a choice, I can agree with it and do it her way or I can leave. Not really much of a choice.

FF- I did take your advice from before and told the MC about her charging at me and hitting and pinching me when she's angry. She then patted my leg and said this is what you consider hitting? I just shook my head no. She then proceeded to explain how the time in the closet I charged at her and threatened to throw her out of the way if she didn't move and let me leave. I don't ever remember charging at her. But she also said the way I move my arms and hands around when I'm angry. Picture an Italian talking with his hands, that's the gist of it. No closed fist or gestures of anger.

Anyway I think the second visit was a bit of an eye opener for the T. I felt like she was focused more on me than my wife but who knows. I think if she did say anything pointed at her then she would probably not want to return. At least right now we have another appointment next week. 

Deep down I think I want the T to just come out and say "yall are just normal healthy adults who happen to just really hate each other". That would be easier to deal with I think.

[formflier]

 

Couple of things

If you are being blocked in a room.  Clearly say... I want to leave the room.  If they don't let you leave... .call 911.  Not a good idea to charge over them.

Next... boundaries...

You get a say in July travel plans.  You do not "get" her to be happy about it.  If you get her compliance... .it is a win... move along.

Does that make sense?

FF

[Hmcbart]

Makes perfect sense. Sadly I was blocked in the closet with no phone handy, going through her would have been the only way out. I chose to sit down and do nothing.

I can see how the compliance is a win but the misery I will have to put up with because of it is a loss. In talking to her after MC, she has her mind made up. To her there is no negotiation. Sadly I agree with some of the logic because the kids will have more fun there. While here, I will still be working and she will still be doing nothing with them, that and making sure they no it's all my fault. I can see that coming a mile away.

[vortex of confusion]

Deep down I think I want the T to just come out and say "yall are just normal healthy adults who happen to just really hate each other". That would be easier to deal with I think.

What makes you think that would be easier to deal with?

I have had that same thought a time or two. At one time, my husband and I agree that are problems were a result of basic incompatibility. At one time, he told me, "You just don't float my boat any more."

What do you think would happen if he told the two of you that you were both normal, healthy adults that hated each other? How would that make the situation easier?

Also, is it possible to work out an arrangement with the kids so that you can talk to them without going through her? If the concern is about the kids, then maybe you can work it out where you can talk to the kids every day and not rely on her. Just a thought. . .

[Hmcbart]

Deep down I think I want the T to just come out and say "yall are just normal healthy adults who happen to just really hate each other". That would be easier to deal with I think.

What makes you think that would be easier to deal with?

Also, is it possible to work out an arrangement with the kids so that you can talk to them without going through her? If the concern is about the kids, then maybe you can work it out where you can talk to the kids every day and not rely on her. Just a thought. . .

I know it wouldn't be. I'm just worn out from it all I guess. I need to vent a little and want to scream a lot, but really no one to vent to and if I scream the people in the car next to me will think I'm crazy and call the cops. 

I don't think she will try to keep the kids from talking to me. They are usually the reason I get a call from them when they are visiting relatives. The youngest will miss me and want to call. I can also text and face time them both when I want. The only concern about the kids is if I put my foot down and tell them they can't go back for a whole month. She will make sure they get angry with me about it. Poor parenting but still the way it works.

Do other families take the summer off and the stay at home parent takes the kids away for a month at a time while the working parent stays behind and works? If this is normal and I'm just overreacting I would love to know. It just doesn't feel normal to me, but I'm the one who gets to stay behind and work.

[formflier]

 

Some families do that... .but here is the thing.

You get to say no...

She gets to say no...

That forces compromise.

Dude... .in all seriousness... for the long term... .get a compromise... .do not capitulate.   Deal with the misery... .it will get better.

It's not the number of days or weeks that you change... .it is the concept that you are part of the decision.

FF

[Hmcbart]

I'm holding my line at July 5th returning by the 31st (I will have to work late that day anyway). I'll get to spend the 4th with them and they will still get almost 4 weeks in Texas. If I can weasel a week off from work I may go back in the middle of July (taking a week this month so it's iffy).

That's my line. That and no lying about where she is and what time and all that.

[vortex of confusion]

I'm holding my line at July 5th returning by the 31st (I will have to work late that day anyway). I'll get to spend the 4th with them and they will still get almost 4 weeks in Texas. If I can weasel a week off from work I may go back in the middle of July (taking a week this month so it's iffy).

That's my line. That and no lying about where she is and what time and all that.

I agree with FF. Do not capitulate.

Also, how are you planning on enforcing these boundaries? Choose something that you can enforce and follow through on, otherwise it sets up a dynamic where she will walk all over you.

[Hmcbart]

I'm holding my line at July 5th returning by the 31st (I will have to work late that day anyway). I'll get to spend the 4th with them and they will still get almost 4 weeks in Texas. If I can weasel a week off from work I may go back in the middle of July (taking a week this month so it's iffy).

That's my line. That and no lying about where she is and what time and all that.

I agree with FF. Do not capitulate.

Also, how are you planning on enforcing these boundaries? Choose something that you can enforce and follow through on, otherwise it sets up a dynamic where she will walk all over you.

That's what I think just happened. I asked for 4 days and she wouldn't budge. All I got was that she was compromising because I get 11 month out of the year. She has already spoken to the boys and let me know that one wants to stay and one wants to go.

I asked what is 4 days out of the entire month and she counters with what is 31 days out of 365. There was no compromise really she had her mind made up before I got home from work.

So how do you enforce something like this without causing it to just get uglier and uglier. I'm at a complete loss on what to do at this point.

[formflier]

 

The 4th is a big holiday... I'm assuming you will be off... and that you guys can do fun stuff before they leave.

I would make huge... .HUGE... effort to take trip to see them...

I might not telegraph that you are coming.  Mention it... say you will do the best you can do... .but do it...

That will show that you are putting out effort... .reaching out into her world... .that her trip is important to you... r/s with her FOO is important.

FF

[Hmcbart]

The 4th is a big holiday... I'm assuming you will be off... and that you guys can do fun stuff before they leave.

I would make huge... .HUGE... effort to take trip to see them...

I might not telegraph that you are coming.  Mention it... say you will do the best you can do... .but do it...

That will show that you are putting out effort... .reaching out into her world... .that her trip is important to you... r/s with her FOO is important.

FF

I would actually get a 3 day weekend for a change and be off the 3rd-5th. If I can go back it would be the middle of the month.

Really though, I don't have any issues with her FOO. They're actually great people and I enjoy being around them. I just have to work and can't take a whole month off.

I don't think I'm asking too much to be with my immediate family (her and the boys) on a rare 3 day weekend. She said that if they are here they will just be playing video games and watching tv. And that may be true but we would be together. She never comes downstairs to spend anytime with us when we are all hear anyway.

How do you enforce a boundary when you really don't have anything to enforce it with?

[vortex of confusion]

That's what I think just happened. I asked for 4 days and she wouldn't budge. All I got was that she was compromising because I get 11 month out of the year. She has already spoken to the boys and let me know that one wants to stay and one wants to go.

Now I am confused. Is there some kind of court order or something? How many months out of the year does she get? Unless there is some kind of court order that says otherwise, you should get just as much say in this as she does. If she is the stay at home parent, then she gets way more time with the kids than you do. Bringing that up with her won't go well. I am validating that what she is saying doesn't logically make sense.

I wonder if it would be possible to ask something like, "Help me understand the logic behind me getting 11 months and you getting 12?"

So how do you enforce something like this without causing it to just get uglier and uglier. I'm at a complete loss on what to do at this point.

What are some of the options that are available to you?

You can't forcibly keep her home.

I don't know what you could do if she took the kids without your permission. Since she is their parent and there are no court orders in place, I don't know that anything could be done legally.

Would this be something that you would divorce over? Could you go get the kids yourself if she is there too long?

[Hmcbart]

No court order. We are still married... .at the moment.

Her thinking is that she wants the boys to build memories from spending time with family in Texas. I don't have a problem with that in theory. I just want to be able to build those memories with them also.

She wants them to be there for the 4th because last year they had so much fun and she wants to because she realized how much she missed it last year.

I have to work to make sure they all have a place to come home to but I don't get to build the memories with the kids.

I'm so psssd off right now. I just left and drove to the store. I don't want to be around her because I know that I'm am very triggered and will explode if I talk to her about it right now.

4 freaking days and she won't even compromise.

She did try to throw in how she thinks it's funny that I want to compromise now but never asked for her input when I bought my Harley. She was against it but I wanted it and bought it... .6 years ago. I just looked at her with a dumbfounded look and didn't say anything. I don't see how it's even remotely the same.

[Hmcbart]

For me it was about spending time with my immediate family since I can't go back. Her and our two boys. That's my family where we live. I am now looking at it from the perspective of spending time with my two boys and she isn't part of the equation.

Divorce isn't an option I'm really comfortable with. She would need to move back to Texas for the family support. I would have to stay and work to be able to support the inevitable child support and allimoney. She's been a stay at home mom for 12 years and has no collage degree to fall back on. She moved twice for my job... .either way I look at it I'm screwed. It's give up a month now or years later.

[GaGrl]

I would think it appropriate to present your position in MC, and for you to clearly say "I want... ."

[Hmcbart]

I would think it appropriate to present your position in MC, and for you to clearly say "I want... ."

Did that this morning at MC.  

T suggested we compromise and come to a mutually agreeable goal. Evidently my interpretation of mutually agreeable and my wife's is completely different. We have another MC next Thursday but the plans will be set by then.

I'm at a loss right now. Don't know wether to add this to the abusive column, controlling column, or the holy sht what just happened column. Sadly I'm a great negotiator at work.

[Hmcbart]

My response was probably passive aggressive.

Text to her:

Take them back to Texas for as long as you choose to. I know there will not be a compromise, only me accepting what your going to do wether I agree or not.

Text to her after she tried to call:

I do not want to speak to you at the moment. I'm very unhappy with everything and I know I could easily lose my temper and say things that I shouldn't. I will calm down in a bit, but right now I'm not there yet. I do love you and I will be home in a few minutes.

I know it's not the right thing to say but I am so freaking frustrated right now. Part of me thinks it's because I brought up her hitting me in therapy and she wants to get me mad. If so, she missed the mark. I'm not mad, I'm hurt and frustrated with dealing with her and ... .ok I'm freaking mad.

[vortex of confusion]

What prompted you to text her? Was it in response to something else?

Yes, your text was passive aggressive and it also puts you in a position where she can now use that against you as a reason to stay as long as she wants. If you bring it up in MC, now she can say, "But you said that I could take them back as long as I choose." and will have a text to prove it. Don't beat yourself up. It is soo hard sometimes to keep my mouth shut and not be PA or snarky.

Don't communicate with her until you calm down and think straight.

[Hmcbart]

I sent it after she tried to call me twice. I was very upset. I know I shouldn't have sent it and it pretty much negates my argument that I don't get a say in how the family does things.

I'm home now but I'm not going to speak to her. I went to the store and did some impulse shopping to soothe my nerves. Bought a frozen pizza, ice cream and mustard (we were out).

I'm still up set but I'm more calm now than before. I get over things fairly quickly, I guess you have to in these relationships.

I have no power to stop her from doing what she wants at all. So I'm pretty much out of options now. My line on them leaving on the 5th and spending the 4th with me got trampled fast.

I really don't know what to do now. I'm at the end of my rope and she has the is holding the other end and gets to do what ever she wants with it. How do you set boundaries when your in this type of situation? Short of divorce because judging from the way things are now, she would make it much worse if we had actual custody hearings.

I feel so stuck right now. I love her and want to try to figure out a way to communicate but I'm complete lost as to how it's going to be possible. When the other persons idea of compromise is do it my way or my way, what do you do?

[GaGrl]

Repeat what you want. Repeat it ad infinitum nauseum. Don't give her any room to say she didn't understand what you were asking of the family.

[Hmcbart]

I was just told that I was making a big deal out of nothing because we were discussing and hadn't made a decision yet. What the heck really? How is no movement on waiting until the 5th to go back not a decision. How is talking to the boys about it and getting their input before its discussed with me not a decision. If a decision wasn't made then I must have been absent from the discussion. The one I was in was done.

I was also told that she was leaning towards staying for the 4th but was torn because she really wants to go back and so do the boys.

Then I got told that I think she is a horrible person because I told her I was angry and would have said mean things if I had stayed at the house. Now she's crying and telling me that this is my fault and the way she feels is because of me and how I think she's a terrible person.


I know the conversation we had. I know how to negotiate. I know when someone doesn't agree then they are set on there way of doing it. And I know, after 20 years, the only agreement was going to come from me agreeing yo do it her way.

its once again all my fault.

This is my Real Time Disfunctional Life.

[Hmcbart]

I'm sorry for airing all of this on here. I know everyone has their own problems to deal with. I just really don't have anyone to talk to or anywhere to go.

I'm so tired of this. I don't know if I'll ver be able to change enough to help this situation.

[vortex of confusion]

   

Don't apologize! That is why this place is here.

I can sense the anxiety and frustration in your posts. Can you take a step back and NOT discuss this stuff with her until your next counseling appointment?

Take a deep breath. I know from experience that trying to have a conversation with my spouse when I am agitated and frustrated is futile and usually escalates things. As hard as it will be, let this go for a bit and try to gain your composure and NOT engage with her. If you engage, that opens up the potential for one or both of you to add fuel to the fire.

[Hmcbart]

I will try to avoid her but unfortunately she will most likely not relent. She's at the point now that usually ends with her waking me up at 2 am to keep going. Our next appointment is Thursday next week. She actually brought up the fair fighting rules we got last time.

I let her know that my leaving was to keep from arguing. She's adamant that when we were discussing the trip we never came to a conclusion. I am now so confused that I'm wondering if she's right. I usually don't forget what is said anymore but at the moment I'm so confused it's ridiculous.

If we are discussing and compromising, wouldn't we both try to come up with reasonable alternatives. Which reminds me that the time frame that I was supposed to have known about was from the 29th of June through the 31st of July. I think I would remember discussing a 5 week time frame. I'm not a drinker or into drugs so I can't think of anything that would keep me from remembering that.

[vortex of confusion]

I usually don't forget what is said anymore but at the moment I'm so confused it's ridiculous.

Don't let her confuse you. If you can, don't engage and don't respond. If she wakes you up to talk, don't talk. Walk away. Go sleep somewhere else. Do whatever you have to do to NOT engage and NOT discuss this until you can talk in front of the therapist so that the therapist can help the two of you navigate things. If she keeps you confused, then that makes it easier for her to get what she wants. If she knows that she can badger you and nag you into getting what she wants, then that is what she is going to do. Be prepared for her to continue to up the ante until she gets you to engage and react. Once you engage, get mad, and react, then that gives her more fodder.

 

[married21years]

dont apoloqize, we are all here for you