more dilemma

[maxsterling]

as of now:

-W and I are sleeping in separate rooms.

-I have a restraining order granted and ready to serve, if needed

-W just accepted a teaching job

- I feel emotionally "done" with this r/s, and don't know if it can be repaired.

I congratulated her on the job.  I've thought about getting flowers for her tonight as a congrats, but worry about sending the wrong message.

This morning dealing with dysreg, name calling, and nastiness, I was considering having the order served this afternoon.  I stopped myself saying I should weigh that decision carefully and not out of anger.  I get some time to myself tonight, and then most of tomorrow to myself.  Sunday, we will try to spend the day together and see how that goes.  Monday is work, and immediately group therapy. 

So - get her congratulatory flowers, or not?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[sweetheart]

You worries over the flowers are well founded, they would give a mixed message. Verbal congratulations are enough given the situation you are dealing with at the moment.

[Notwendy]

To me, flowers would feel like something romantic, and give me the impression of kiss and make up. Since I don't think this is what you are feelings, sending flowers would feel dishonest to you- and it may set up expectations for a night of passionate "lets make a baby". Yet you also struggle with feeling like a bad guy if you don't - and also possibly triggering a dysregulation if you don't do something.

Am I on target?

What else can you do besides flowers that feels more honest to you? What if she were not your wife but your sister? How would you congratulate your sister? I can think of a few things: a big congratuations balloon ( celebratory but not romantic) , a favorite treat- like a cake from a bakery or ice cream, a cute card that says "yay I'm proud of you".

Or like Sweetheart says, keep it simple. Do something that feels authentic to you but I agree- no flowers.

[vortex of confusion]

I am with the other women! No flowers. I would leave it at a verbal congratulations.

I would be afraid of doing too much for fear of sending mixed signals. Really, there probably isn't a "right" way to congratulate her. If you send anything, balloon, flowers, etc., it could be mistaken as some kind of gesture that everything is okay. Not doing anything can lead to the whole "you don't care about me" stuff.

 

[Notwendy]

They plan on spending the day together Sunday, so this could give her the impression that things are OK. I know that the relationship isn't over, but what will you do the whole day together that doesn't appear to be like togetherness? I know that the relationship isn't over, but generally, when I am trying to get some distance, spending a day together is a lot of time to fill.

One option instead of balloon or something like that- is to make plans to go to brunch or dinner on Sunday to congratulate her and then also plans to not be with her and do something for you.

[GaGrl]

No. Flowers.

[Verbena]

If this were a normal situation, flowers would be appropriate.  But nothing about any of this is normal.  I would tell her congratulations and leave it at that.  

I'm glad your wife took some initiative and got herself a job so quickly, but I have to seriously question the school that hired her.  Was there no background check?  Can you imagine what the parents would think if they knew their child's new teacher had just had the police called on her twice in the past month for domestic violence?   IF they knew she had been deemed by the state as "seriously mentally ill"?  

I know this is all out of your control and really beside the point, but wow.  Somebody really dropped the ball here.  

[formflier]

 

No flowers...

I think everyone else is hitting this as well.

FF

[maxsterling]

If this were a normal situation, flowers would be appropriate.  But nothing about any of this is normal.  I would tell her congratulations and leave it at that.  

I'm glad your wife took some initiative and got herself a job so quickly, but I have to seriously question the school that hired her.  Was there no background check?  Can you imagine what the parents would think if they knew their child's new teacher had just had the police called on her twice in the past month for domestic violence?   IF they knew she had been deemed by the state as "seriously mentally ill"?  

I know this is all out of your control and really beside the point, but wow.  Somebody really dropped the ball here.  

Not to mention the suicide attempt... .  The reality (and legality) is that no charges were ever filed, she was never arrested or cited.  Somewhere in the police records, there notes and recordings, but those won't come up in a background check.   Doctor/patient confidentiality rules protect her from having her mental health checked into. 

But the reality is (sad to say it) your kids teachers could be the same way.  My previous girlfriend was a teacher, and actually got arrested for domestic violence, and was able to get a job as a teacher after her probation was up.  I've personally known teachers who had serious substance abuse issues or were even drug dealers.  One of the most violent and mentally disordered people I know is a psychologist.   

So I agree.  No flowers.   

[Verbena]

Max, I taught school for 29 years so maybe that is why I am so shocked she was hired.  Anyway, thanks for clearing up how this could happen.  

I'm assuming this is summer school?  As you said, you know the pattern.  She might not even  follow through with it, or last more than a few days.  It would be best honestly if she didn't.  She should not be dealing with children in my opinion.  

[maxsterling]

Max, I taught school for 29 years so maybe that is why I am so shocked she was hired.  Anyway, thanks for clearing up how this could happen.  

I'm assuming this is summer school?  As you said, you know the pattern.  She might not even  follow through with it, or last more than a few days.  It would be best honestly if she didn't.  She should not be dealing with children in my opinion.  

No, it would be regular school.  And yes, I know the pattern.  She will stress out and eventually fade.  I think she stands a better chance this time around, for no other reason than the commute is much, much shorter (5 mins. vs 45 mins.)

As for her dealing with children - that's a tough one.  She admits she has yelled at them before.  I think she even admits to making children cry before.  So she does lose her cool.  I have no doubt she would be the same way with her own child.   

[maxsterling]

As the social worker pointed out to me - lets look at it this way - longest she has held any job (to my knowledge) is two years.  Longest she has held onto a relationship partner is 3 years.  And I don't know if that is without interruption.  She did manage to get through grad school.  Longest she has lived in one place - 3 years.  The reality is that the same is almost certain to happen again, with this job, and with this relationship. 

I support her efforts to try again, but my effort needs to be in my own safety and health. 

[Jessica84]

Maxsterling - how long have you been together? Are you approaching the 3 year marker? Wondering if she is aware of this pattern, and if that in itself could be causing her to panic and act out? Either way, glad to see your focus is safety first.

[SweetCharlotte]

You know me, Max.

Flowers—yes.

Everything else—yes too.

That's my gut feeling.

[maric]

Max,

I'm sorry for all you have been through. I don't write much but have been following your history for some time.

I'm am out of my BPD rs, so maybe I'm different from some other people helping you in this thread, who are still in their rs. I just want to try to give you a perspective from outside. In no way I wish you harm.

Having said that: PLEASE remember that this woman hit you a VERY short time ago. And called you names this very morning.

I know you are still in a rs, and of course you wish her well, but buying flowers/ballons/having brunch together just sends the message that everything is ok, and she can still hit you and call you names and you're STILL getting her flowers! You need to BREAK from this pattern circle, and not drag yourself and her back in!

I am myself a very giving person, I like to do treats and kindness for people too, and I know that fells good at the moment – but don't you think that perhaps this attitude in this particular moment is also dragging her back to the rs pattern? This is exactly the moment when we codependents should watch out and take responsability for. We LOVE being kind and giving, but this also brings us harm when we are doing all this kindness to someone who abuses us.

One thing that I read some posts ago was about her not even being able to feed herself. Well, it seems that when you stop feeding her, she found a way to do it. Now that she feels you are enforcing boundaries, she's not only looking for a job, but also GOT one. SHE CAN DO IT BY HERSELF. In this aspect – please, I'm saying this with love – you ARE controlling her.

This "control with kindness" thing is something that I have also HUGE problems with and am dealing with also on a daily basis. See, our kindness is part of the rs disfunction.

If you need some time to rest before another storm (serving the OP, ending the rs, whatever), take it, but keep in mind all the damage this rs has done to you. You need someone who can appreciate your kindness with kindness also, and not someone who abuses you because of your kind nature.

I'm sorry for saying all this; I apologize also for spell mistakes, as English is not my native language.

I really wish you well!   

 

[Grey Kitty]

You are still focusing on her.

What do you want? Not with the woman who is magically cured of mental illness that you can live happily ever after with. How do you want to live with this very real and very unstable woman you are married to?

Separate bedrooms in your house?

Something else?

She isn't going to change much or do it quickly.

How do you see yourself living?

[formflier]

 

How long have you known her/been dating?

How long has she lived with you?

FF

[Verbena]

I had the same question as Formflier.  Max, when did she start with the physical abuse?  The verbal abuse?  Was there ever a time in your relationship when neither was present?   

[maxsterling]

Wow, good comments, everyone.

W is, of course, still in a bad mood.  She is out of the house today, all day, and I will focus on ME.

Still working on boundaries, still trying to keep my health and safety in the forefront.

As for the details of the r/s - known her about 2.5 years.  First verbal abuse was probably about 3 months in, although I did not recognize it at the time.  Physical abuse - there was a small incident about 1 year in, but now I would consider threatening gestures also as physical abuse, to which that first incident 3 months in would qualify.  The physical stuff certainly ramped up after we got married, as did the verbal stuff.  She's lived with me almost as long as I have known her.  I offered a room to her when she was relocating, thinking it would be temporary.  The longest we have gone without physical abuse is about a year, and maybe there was a 6 month period where the verbal abuse was at minimum.

As for what I want - I want a peaceful life.  And I know that will require action from me.  At least I know how I can do that. 

[Notwendy]

Maric is right on with the idea of controlling with kindness. I didn't catch on to this for a while. I assumed that a controlling person was mean and stern.

I was controlling my H's emotions with kindness- so he wouldn't rage.

I have been "nice" to my mom to keep her from raging.

The great illusion with this is that we still look good when we do it, -we get to be the nice guy.

The difference to me is am I being authentic?  Am I acting out of a place of kindness, - or FOG, or to keep from being raged at.

[maric]

Maric is right on with the idea of controlling with kindness. I didn't catch on to this for a while. I assumed that a controlling person was mean and stern.

I was controlling my H's emotions with kindness- so he wouldn't rage.

I have been "nice" to my mom to keep her from raging.

The great illusion with this is that we still look good when we do it, -we get to be the nice guy.

The difference to me is am I being authentic?  Am I acting out of a place of kindness, - or FOG, or to keep from being raged at.

Yes! Exactly! Oh Notwendy, thank you so much for bringing this to topic. I'm struggling a lot with thoughts about these issues lately. Maybe we should start another topic to discuss this and not hijack Max's thread? I would love to discuss this further.

[Notwendy]

Sure- sounds like a great topic

[Grey Kitty]

What's new, max?

And you say you want peace.

Sounds a little like a cop out to me to state it that way.

Do you want to create peace with her living with you?

Do you want to find peace away from her?

Do you want to allow yourself some time and space to think and gather strength before you ask/force her to leave?

I'd love to give you support on getting peace... .but I think you need to choose your path first.

 there is nothing easy about this kind of choice.

[Verbena]

Max, it's easy for all of us to see the reality of your situation and offer suggestions/encouragement on what you should do.  You are in a very tough spot, and it can't be easy.  Along with a lot of other emotions, I suspect you are dealing with grief as well--grief that what you wanted for your life with the person you love is seemingly impossible. 

You have done everything you know to help her, and nothing has helped.  Her mental illness is something you have no control over. 

[formflier]

 

Peace while living with her is possible... .but will require you to give up "location" of the peace.

So... .if you want to have peace and stay in living room watching TV... .doubtful that will happen.

If... .you are prepared to have a hard... .consistent boundary against BPD trait behavior... .by walking away.

Then I can see a possible pathway... .maybe...

But... .you do need to choose... .there needs to be a vision you can pour energy into.

FF

[formflier]

 

Because right now... .without a plan and vision... .she is content to suck all the energy she can from you.

Do you see that dynamic... .of where the energy and effort is going?

FF

[Verbena]

  I see no way there can be any peace living with a person who you know is capable at any minute to verbally and phyically abuse you--and not have any remorse for it. 

Max, you are basically waiting for the other shoe to drop.  You have an Order of Protection ready if she becomes violent.  You've thought seriously about having it served several times since you obtained it. You've bought new locks and hidden them in the trunk of your car.  You have a safety plan regarding your phone and the position of the cars.  You've involved police and other professionals.  You spend a lot of time posting here and going to various therapies and counseling. 

None of this is normal.  It's no way to live. 

Spending the day together, going to brunch--those are normal things.  But given your situation, what's the point of doing these things? 

[Notwendy]

Whatever Max decides, I encourage him to still seek out support, here, his groups, counseling, DV worker.

I encourage him to not isolate himself from people who will speak the truth to him. The pull to go into denial and keep the peace is strong. It is easy to say " it's not all that bad".

Max may not see this how others see it. Still, do not isolate yourself Max.

[maxsterling]

So much to think about here.  Thanks everyone.

I think I am grieving.  And I think that makes it more difficult to choose a path.  I'm in that point in the r/s where I feel like I have put in so much work, and just haven't been able to emotionally accept the "it's likely over" aspect.  Had we been together longer, or been longer since our wedding, I may feel differently.  Or had we only been together less than a year at this point, I would feel differently.

I'm starting group T tonight.  I am hoping that will help me "choose a path".  But you are all right, I am stuck at that crossroads now.  I just don't think I am emotionally capable of choosing a path right now. 

[MaroonLiquid]

I just don't think I am emotionally capable of choosing a path right now. 

You don't have to.  The best time to choose your path is when you can step outside of the emotion of it all.