Did Your BPD Ex Lack Empathy? What About Conscience?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Have been thinking about that one... .

Most of mine actually did have empathy but like mentioned in some books they had at it a level of like an 8 year old maybe?

So they did feel bad they were hurting me, they did NOT want to hurt me (I am positive of that) but it was just the disorder. They cried, they were genuinely sorry but they just said "their feelings changed and they didn't know why". Just like an 8 year old.

So in all of those cases they did have empathy and conscience but the pull of the disorder was so strong that they ran off. And they were living with a lot of guilt and shame due to the people they have hurt in the past. So, I'd say those were genuinely nice people afflicted with this debilitating disorder.

They were manipulative in some ways but it was very basic manipulation, kind of like a child trying to get a parent's attention or get some ice cream. Also, they had no conscious awareness of their manipulative tendencies.

One of mine, however, was very different. She could act like she had empathy but she really did not. And due to some diabolically devious and double faced things she has done I know she didn't have a conscience either. She was an extremely damaging sociopath who furthermore was aware of what she was doing, a double faced liar and manipulator that paraded as a sheep but really was a predator that knew exactly what she was doing. A lot of her actions remind me of the movie Gone Girl, crazy stuff.

The latter kind are more difficult to detect and much much more dangerous.

What about your ex? To what extent did he or she have empathy and conscience? Do you think many BPD people are sociopaths?

I would say MOST are not sociopaths in the traditional sense but some certainly are.

[ZeusRLX]

Have been thinking about that one... .

Most of mine actually did have empathy but like mentioned in some books they had at it a level of like an 8 year old maybe?

So they did feel bad they were hurting me, they did NOT want to hurt me (I am positive of that) but it was just the disorder. They cried, they were genuinely sorry but they just said "their feelings changed and they didn't know why". Just like an 8 year old.

So in all of those cases they did have empathy and conscience but the pull of the disorder was so strong that they ran off. And they were living with a lot of guilt and shame due to the people they have hurt in the past. So, I'd say those were genuinely nice people afflicted with this debilitating disorder.

They were manipulative in some ways but it was very basic manipulation, kind of like a child trying to get a parent's attention or get some ice cream. Also, they had no conscious awareness of their manipulative tendencies.

One of mine, however, was very different. She could act like she had empathy but she really did not. And due to some diabolically devious and double faced things she has done I know she didn't have a conscience either. She was an extremely damaging sociopath who furthermore was aware of what she was doing, a double faced liar and manipulator that paraded as a sheep but really was a predator that knew exactly what she was doing. A lot of her actions remind me of the movie Gone Girl, crazy stuff.

The latter kind are more difficult to detect and much much more dangerous.

What about your ex? To what extent did he or she have empathy and conscience? Do you think many BPD people are sociopaths?

I would say MOST are not sociopaths in the traditional sense but some certainly are.

[once removed]

hey zeus.

in general, pwBPD do not lack empathy. id say its challenged, kinda like you said. they dont lack a conscience. sometimes, the disorder can make "right" of "wrong". same applies for manipulation. we all do it to varying extents. what is not unique to pwBPD, but common, is acting in ways that test us, our love, our potential for abandoning them, etc. youre right in that its typically not a conscious process. i also think itd be dehumanizing pwBPD for me to suggest a pwBPD is incapable of conscious manipulation, i think we all are.

my ex had empathy, and i saw it. i would agree that it was on a shallow level, when it came to me personally. if i was going through something, it was a bit like an exciting drama for her, or it felt that way at the time. on one notable occasion she turned the whole situation into being about her, even while apologizing. in another situation, id say she was downright cruel, raging at me with me basically reacting with  

empathy has its limits, or rather, people do. i consider myself an empath. usually im pretty good at empathizing and expressing empathy. not always. sometimes, usually for selfish reasons, it becomes much harder for me to express, even if my reaction is powerful on the inside. broadly speaking, in terms of human beings, i dont think pwBPD are any different, especially as pwBPD vary. some may have greater empathy, some less. but i can see where it might be limited with a pwBPD. even easier for me to see as the disordered relationship plays itself out. much harder to empathize when dysregulated, much harder to empathize when you feel engulfed. much harder to empathize when your feelings for your romantic partner are not stable.

[zipline]

I believe my ex had empathy. I read here and elsewhere that BPDs have empathy but are completely overwhelmed by their own internal emotional turmoil.  This seems about right in my experience.  Like if I could have ever gotten her off the edge of the precipice when she was raging or panicking, or been able to talk with her when she was "happy" without totally triggering her, then I'm sure she would have had the capacity to feel the world as I felt it.  There were glimpses, especially if it involved people that weren't me. But inevitably, the empathy would trigger something inside her and she'd be overwhelmed again. Totally sad.  It must be terrifying to live like that.

[going places]

Have been thinking about that one... .

Most of mine actually did have empathy but like mentioned in some books they had at it a level of like an 8 year old maybe?

So they did feel bad they were hurting me, they did NOT want to hurt me (I am positive of that) but it was just the disorder. They cried, they were genuinely sorry but they just said "their feelings changed and they didn't know why". Just like an 8 year old.

So in all of those cases they did have empathy and conscience but the pull of the disorder was so strong that they ran off. And they were living with a lot of guilt and shame due to the people they have hurt in the past. So, I'd say those were genuinely nice people afflicted with this debilitating disorder.

They were manipulative in some ways but it was very basic manipulation, kind of like a child trying to get a parent's attention or get some ice cream. Also, they had no conscious awareness of their manipulative tendencies.

One of mine, however, was very different. She could act like she had empathy but she really did not. And due to some diabolically devious and double faced things she has done I know she didn't have a conscience either. She was an extremely damaging sociopath who furthermore was aware of what she was doing, a double faced liar and manipulator that paraded as a sheep but really was a predator that knew exactly what she was doing. A lot of her actions remind me of the movie Gone Girl, crazy stuff.

The latter kind are more difficult to detect and much much more dangerous.

What about your ex? To what extent did he or she have empathy and conscience?

No, the ex has no empathy... .No idea how to be empathetic.

He would pretend like he 'understood' but would (behind closed doors) say how stupid or weak or ignorant the person was... etc. He learned how to "appear empathetic" but behind closed doors, the REAL _____showed his TRUE colors.

He is cold, calculated, and has zero empathetic skills. Zero

Do you think many BPD people are sociopaths?

I would say MOST are not sociopaths in the traditional sense but some certainly are.

I have read, a lot, and my ex hits 99.9% of the NPD and ASPD traits.

He is abusive. He's just a really bad dude.

[Fr4nz]

Have been thinking about that one... .

Most of mine actually did have empathy but like mentioned in some books they had at it a level of like an 8 year old maybe?

So they did feel bad they were hurting me, they did NOT want to hurt me (I am positive of that) but it was just the disorder. They cried, they were genuinely sorry but they just said "their feelings changed and they didn't know why". Just like an 8 year old.

So in all of those cases they did have empathy and conscience but the pull of the disorder was so strong that they ran off. And they were living with a lot of guilt and shame due to the people they have hurt in the past. So, I'd say those were genuinely nice people afflicted with this debilitating disorder.

They were manipulative in some ways but it was very basic manipulation, kind of like a child trying to get a parent's attention or get some ice cream. Also, they had no conscious awareness of their manipulative tendencies.

One of mine, however, was very different. She could act like she had empathy but she really did not. And due to some diabolically devious and double faced things she has done I know she didn't have a conscience either. She was an extremely damaging sociopath who furthermore was aware of what she was doing, a double faced liar and manipulator that paraded as a sheep but really was a predator that knew exactly what she was doing. A lot of her actions remind me of the movie Gone Girl, crazy stuff.

The latter kind are more difficult to detect and much much more dangerous.

What about your ex? To what extent did he or she have empathy and conscience? Do you think many BPD people are sociopaths?

I would say MOST are not sociopaths in the traditional sense but some certainly are.

I think the "particular" one you had was, perhaps, more ASPD than BPD. Total lackness of empathy is typical of ASPD.

I don't think that BPDs (but also HPDs) are sociopaths; on the countrary, I think the vast majority of them can feel empathy, even more than us NONs, and have a conscience.

Fact is: they have an emotional intelligence of a child and when they dysregulate they go into survival mode (in other words, they split you black on that moment) and cannot feel empathy, shame or guilt for what they did. However, it seems that very often they process, at a later stage, what they did, hence the profound self-loathing they experience. In this sense, we can say they indeed have a conscience.

[Invictus01]

The only living object I have seen my ex being empathetic to is her cat. She is in love with him, probably because he is always there for her no matter what she does. (Granted, he is a pretty cool cat, literally and figuratively speaking). Other than that, nothing. Never once she said "I'm sorry" when or after she walked away from me. I have seen her doing rather heartless and brutal things to people who reported to her at work and sometimes I was like "How does that 25 year old kid does THAT? I'd feel so bad if I did that!" She is rather self absorbed though, so I am a strong suspicion I did deal with a BPD.

[DyingLove]

So, would anybody agree that this would affect their honesty and how they present it?

For instance,  When the ex asked me if I wanted to marry her and I said yes, then asked her the same she said NO.  She didn't sugar coat or anything. And on another occasion, after being sweet and kind to her, I said "do you ever get tired of getting treated so nice?", her answer, a flat out sometimes.

Stuff like that... .where someone might just say it or word it differently like:  Honey, now might not be a good time to talk marriage, but I'm sure we'll make it work out!

I don't know, it's just that the way she replied to me, often, was unlike anyone else ever talked to me.  To be overly honest is one thing, but to not realize that you may be "shooting someone down" is another.  I would NEVER want anyone to feel the way she made me feel at those times.  Sometimes I actually avoided talking about certain things because I was damn afraid of what I'd be hearing!

[Invictus01]

So, would anybody agree that this would affect their honesty and how they present it?

For instance,  When the ex asked me if I wanted to marry her and I said yes, then asked her the same she said NO.  She didn't sugar coat or anything. And on another occasion, after being sweet and kind to her, I said "do you ever get tired of getting treated so nice?", her answer, a flat out sometimes.

Stuff like that... .where someone might just say it or word it differently like:  Honey, now might not be a good time to talk marriage, but I'm sure we'll make it work out!

I don't know, it's just that the way she replied to me, often, was unlike anyone else ever talked to me.  To be overly honest is one thing, but to not realize that you may be "shooting someone down" is another.  I would NEVER want anyone to feel the way she made me feel at those times.  Sometimes I actually avoided talking about certain things because I was damn afraid of what I'd be hearing!

I'd say they simply don't care about anybody else's feelings but their own. That is why they can be that brutally honest - they just don't realize or care that you might be hurt. And even if they see that you are hurt, they just ignore it and since feelings are facts in their minds, it never happened. Oh, and by the way, I think the second you realize that you can't talk about your gf about anything and everything, that's probably a good sign that it is time to leave that relationship... .

[DyingLove]

So, would anybody agree that this would affect their honesty and how they present it?

For instance,  When the ex asked me if I wanted to marry her and I said yes, then asked her the same she said NO.  She didn't sugar coat or anything. And on another occasion, after being sweet and kind to her, I said "do you ever get tired of getting treated so nice?", her answer, a flat out sometimes.

Stuff like that... .where someone might just say it or word it differently like:  Honey, now might not be a good time to talk marriage, but I'm sure we'll make it work out!

I don't know, it's just that the way she replied to me, often, was unlike anyone else ever talked to me.  To be overly honest is one thing, but to not realize that you may be "shooting someone down" is another.  I would NEVER want anyone to feel the way she made me feel at those times.  Sometimes I actually avoided talking about certain things because I was damn afraid of what I'd be hearing!

I'd say they simply don't care about anybody else's feelings but their own. That is why they can be that brutally honest - they just don't realize or care that you might be hurt. And even if they see that you are hurt, they just ignore it and since feelings are facts in their minds, it never happened. Oh, and by the way, I think the second you realize that you can't talk about your gf about anything and everything, that's probably a good sign that it is time to leave that relationship... .

Good outlook on that invictus,  It's always good to hear that someone understands and can validate this stuff right back atcha.  Its just another piece of the puzzle that now possibly makes sense. The fact that I wouldn't do something like that, makes me think that her way wasn't exactly the normal way to do things.  While we are on the topic of truth, The other evening, I had a TERRIBLE dream about the ex and some of her family members.  Was so VIVID and REALISTIC and I was actually there!  It involved truth in a sense, as I stood in front on her mother and stepdad and said: Contrary to what you've heard, you don't really know the truth.  The ex stepped out of the scene and was behind me and I felt that she was "motioning" behind my back to them as I spoke.  But once again it was all of them, against me.  I woke up not feeling great, almost like it really happened. I think I'm doing really good for three months out, but I realize that I have a ways to come.

I've aquired a GOOD friend just recently that is helping me overcome my griefs just by her distraction and understanding.  I cannot believe how loving and understanding she is.  Times like this make me understand that life continues.  One day at a time is what we got!

[zipline]

Oh, and by the way, I think the second you realize that you can't talk about your gf about anything and everything, that's probably a good sign that it is time to leave that relationship... .

Absolutely.

[Madison66]

I won't speak in general about pwBPD or other PD's, but rather I can tell you what I witnessed and dealt with.  :)uring my 3+ year r/s with uBPD/NPD (probably stronger NPD traits), I repeatedly saw things that my ex gf did and said that showed zero empathy towards me and others or she demonstrated empathy in a very childlike way.  At times, she could put on a good show of empathy and conscience as long as it worked to protect her image and/or her shell of a world.  

I'll use an example of her parenting style and the actions of her young kids (S5, S7 and D9 while we were together).  She used and abused a parenting style called "attachment parenting", which she stated encouraged no rewards and no punishments along with little or no boundaries.  What I witnessed were her kids destroying her house, not having respect for others, not being able to adapt to acceptable rules outside her house and all three had significant emotional/developmental issues (childhood anxiety, OCD, Autism Spectrum, impulse control issues, etc.).  The youngest would even abuse caregivers to the point that they would just leave and my D16 even endured it during the last babysitting she did for them.  I would ask my ex gf her take on what was happening with the kids and what her plans were for working on needed changes.  She was very defensive that her kids will eventually come around and that they will never deal with the abuse and neglect she dealt with as a kid.  She had zero empathy for how the utter chaos in her house affected me or for the caregivers and others outside her home felt about being abused by her kids.  On more than one occasion when she was emotionally dysregulated, she would rage and hit herself in the head while saying "I'm a horrible parent and girlfriend" before curling up in the fetal position crying and wailing.  She would then attempt to show very small changes so her supply and caretaker (me) didn't leave her or others didn't question her parenting.  When I would suggest to get the kids' dad involved to help create some consistency between the homes, she could not see beyond her "painting him black" no matter how it affected her kids.  Chaos turned into more chaos and more chaos.  This is a highly educated person, but also like a child raising children and attempting to navigate the world with the emotions like a child.

I used this example because I feel it goes to show the extent and the depth of my ex gf's actions and beliefs that are driven by deep seeded fear to the detriment of herself, her kids, her loved ones, friends and people on the outside.  The emotional neglect from her parents and lack of emotional attachment with her mom at a young age, the sexual abuse trauma as a young teen, the abandonment by friends and bf/H, etc. all had a profound affect.  Her actions, lack of actions, words and lack of words often strongly demonstrated a lack of empathy and conscience.  While she was apparently not diagnosed with a PD, I had two T's strongly suggest that I flee the r/s because neither believed she would get the help needed to deal with the strong PD traits.  In the end, I came to that same realization.  PD or no PD - it didn't matter and still doesn't... .

[DyingLove]

I won't speak in general about pwBPD or other PD's, but rather I can tell you what I witnessed and dealt with.  :)uring my 3+ year r/s with uBPD/NPD (probably stronger NPD traits), I repeatedly saw things that my ex gf did and said that showed zero empathy towards me and others or she demonstrated empathy in a very childlike way.  At times, she could put on a good show of empathy and conscience as long as it worked to protect her image and/or her shell of a world.  

I'll use an example of her parenting style and the actions of her young kids (S5, S7 and D9 while we were together).  She used and abused a parenting style called "attachment parenting", which she stated encouraged no rewards and no punishments along with little or no boundaries.  What I witnessed were her kids destroying her house, not having respect for others, not being able to adapt to acceptable rules outside her house and all three had significant emotional/developmental issues (childhood anxiety, OCD, Autism Spectrum, impulse control issues, etc.).  The youngest would even abuse caregivers to the point that they would just leave and my D16 even endured it during the last babysitting she did for them.  I would ask my ex gf her take on what was happening with the kids and what her plans were for working on needed changes.  She was very defensive that her kids will eventually come around and that they will never deal with the abuse and neglect she dealt with as a kid.  She had zero empathy for how the utter chaos in her house affected me or for the caregivers and others outside her home felt about being abused by her kids.  On more than one occasion when she was emotionally dysregulated, she would rage and hit herself in the head while saying "I'm a horrible parent and girlfriend" before curling up in the fetal position crying and wailing.  She would then attempt to show very small changes so her supply and caretaker (me) didn't leave her or others didn't question her parenting.  When I would suggest to get the kids' dad involved to help create some consistency between the homes, she could not see beyond her "painting him black" no matter how it affected her kids.  Chaos turned into more chaos and more chaos.  This is a highly educated person, but also like a child raising children and attempting to navigate the world with the emotions like a child.

I used this example because I feel it goes to show the extent and the depth of my ex gf's actions and beliefs that are driven by deep seeded fear to the detriment of herself, her kids, her loved ones, friends and people on the outside.  The emotional neglect from her parents and lack of emotional attachment with her mom at a young age, the sexual abuse trauma as a young teen, the abandonment by friends and bf/H, etc. all had a profound affect.  Her actions, lack of actions, words and lack of words often strongly demonstrated a lack of empathy and conscience.  While she was apparently not diagnosed with a PD, I had two T's strongly suggest that I flee the r/s because neither believed she would get the help needed to deal with the strong PD traits.  In the end, I came to that same realization.  PD or no PD - it didn't matter and still doesn't... .

Madison, I can relate to a lot of what you posted, almost to a "T".  Even the parenting.  She never admitted to any kind of sexual abuse, but her mother was an abusive person.  Her two exes were abusive also.  I think, up to what I know, I'm the only one that was not abusive and I was a loving sucker!

[Madison66]

"Loving sucker"!  I felt that way for a long time!  I will say the pain and the confusion of the r/s and b/u (I was the one that cut it off clean) pushed me to really focus inward.  I was a classic people pleaser with pretty strong co-dependent traits.  That made me ripe for that type of r/s and kept me in the saddle way too long!  Empathy is part of love, kindness and compassion, and are values I hold strongly.  Diagnosed PD or not, I allowed her to show me a lack of empathy and in doing so I wasn't living my true self nor was I honoring my own values.  People pleasing is self defeating and leaves you in a position where you can't be the best you are for those around you.  Big, big lesson that I learned about myself and relationships.  Nineteen months out and I see things quite clearly now... .

[DyingLove]

"Loving sucker"!  I felt that way for a long time!  I will say the pain and the confusion of the r/s and b/u (I was the one that cut it off clean) pushed me to really focus inward.  I was a classic people pleaser with pretty strong co-dependent traits.  That made me ripe for that type of r/s and kept me in the saddle way too long!  Empathy is part of love, kindness and compassion, and are values I hold strongly.  Diagnosed PD or not, I allowed her to show me a lack of empathy and in doing so I wasn't living my true self nor was I honoring my own values.  People pleasing is self defeating and leaves you in a position where you can't be the best you are for those around you.  Big, big lesson that I learned about myself and relationships.  Nineteen months out and I see things quite clearly now... .

Yep. People pleasers, and I wonder if ALL of us are that are suffering from BU's?

Now do you mean people pleasing but getting nothing in return? Or any kind of people pleaser?  I ask because I can't see a relationship where I wouldn't want to please my partner, but hopefully get some of that right back at me without asking of course.  I'm seeing more and more clearly too. Baby steps. Thank you Madison66

[search4peace]

I ask because I can't see a relationship where I wouldn't want to please my partner, but hopefully get some of that right back at me without asking of course. 

Yes, we all hope for that.  That, in my view, is what unconditional love is all about... .both partners pleasing each other, giving freely without keeping score or expectations. Seems so far away for most of us with fresh wounds from our BPD mess, but its something I will always reach for.

Thank you for reminding us of what is important.

[Madison66]

Don't want to hijack the thread, but the key thing I saw in myself was that by remaining in an abusive r/s that was not a healthy reciprocating love r/s I was not living my true self.  I was drawn into the r/s and remained even through the abuse.  I believe that for a number of reasons, I showed a number of signs of being a people pleaser (below).  Again, love and kindness and compassion and empathy are things that run deep in my blood but I remained in a r/s where these things weren't present or always present.  I stayed and I sold myself short.  Will never happen again!


From a website I found and there are many like this:

www.patrickwanis.com/blog/15-signs-people-pleaser/

Are you a people pleaser? Here are 15 signs.

The people pleaser:

1. Never considers his/her needs, desires and health

2. Feels unappreciated and unimportant

3. Is plagued with resentment, anger, hurt, passive-aggressiveness

4. Avoids confrontation

5. Feels trapped

6. Feels guilty when saying no

7. Feels resentment when saying yes

8. Always says yes to doing things for other people

9. Always takes care of other people

10. Never takes care of him/herself

11. Allows others to take advantage of him/her

12. Doesn’t reveal his/her own true self

13.Isn’t present and engaged when with people

14. Doesn’t understand or recognize his/her own boundaries

15. Fears rejection, disappointment and failure

Read more: www.patrickwanis.com/blog/15-signs-people-pleaser/#ixzz3dH0tH5Gj

[going places]

Don't want to hijack the thread, but the key thing I saw in myself was that by remaining in an abusive r/s that was not a healthy reciprocating love r/s I was not living my true self.  I was drawn into the r/s and remained even through the abuse.  I believe that for a number of reasons, I showed a number of signs of being a people pleaser (below).  Again, love and kindness and compassion and empathy are things that run deep in my blood but I remained in a r/s where these things weren't present or always present.  I stayed and I sold myself short.  Will never happen again!

If I may further hi jack... .


From a website I found and there are many like this:

www.patrickwanis.com/blog/15-signs-people-pleaser/

Are you a people pleaser? Here are 15 signs.

The people pleaser:

1. Never considers his/her needs, desires and healthYep. AND when I started considering my needs, vocalizing my needs, caring for my health?

It's amazing to watch 'emotional vampires' turn to bats and fly away!

2. Feels unappreciated and unimportant

Yep. AND when I discovered WHY I felt this way... .and I stopped doing the things that made me feel this way; guess what? More vampire to bat mode... .

3. Is plagued with resentment, anger, hurt, passive-aggressiveness

Resentment, anger, hurt. Yep. Check, check, check.

Presently working on how to 'freely' give, with boundaries, in love!

4. Avoids confrontation

Not the first 10 years... .but the last 15, yeah, bit by bit, slowly I just 'did whatever it took' to keep the peace.

5. Feels trapped

Yes. It's not good to back me in a corner.

That's not love.

6. Feels guilty when saying no

Only to certain people, otherwise, no was one of my favorite words.

If it infringed on my family time, I had no problem saying no.

7. Feels resentment when saying yes

See above

8. Always says yes to doing things for other people

Not always, and it depended. When it came to the ex, yes was all he wanted to hear, so that is what he heard. I did not like the punishment for saying 'no' to him.

9. Always takes care of other people

I'm a mom, it's what I do!

NOW I am learning to do that with healthy boundaries!

10. Never takes care of him/herself

I kept myself very well. I am the same size today as I was 30 years ago... .

11. Allows others to take advantage of him/her

Yep, BUT when I put my foot down, and said NO MORE, then *I* became the 'crazy one' or the 'grim reaper'.

12. Doesn’t reveal his/her own true self

I did the first 10 years, but the last 15, completely lost me.

13.Isn’t present and engaged when with people

Nope. Total social butterfly.

14. Doesn’t understand or recognize his/her own boundaries

Until a year ago this was dead on accurate!

15. Fears rejection, disappointment and failure

That and blame. Feared being blamed, for everything... .

Hello, childhood issues, party of one!


Read more: www.patrickwanis.com/blog/15-signs-people-pleaser/#ixzz3dH0tH5Gj


I am so thankful for books, libraries, and the internet.

I learn something new every day!

[PlanetsBendBetweenUs]

When my pwBPD's mask finally slipped, there was no empathy and no conscious. This explains why so many times I had to sit down and walk them through the step by step mental exercise of why this or that action was hurtful and turn it around how would you feel if you where in my shoes. Then, sometimes they where able to see it but I seriously question if this was genuine understanding and empathy or if they just knew what they where expected to say. I recall one incident when I wanted to take her beloved granddaughter to the park with my pwBPD. She had all-ready made plans for all the things that she wanted to do on the weekend and she did not want to take the child to the park lest it interfere with her agenda of what she wanted to do. She got angry for me asking and furious when I asked her how could you deny taking a child to the park. The only reason that I wanted to go to the park was for the joy that I would have received seeing the granddaughter have fun and laugh. Without empathy my pwBPD could not get that same feeling. She had a plan for the weekend and a schedule and if all concerned where not on board for that too bad. No there was no empathy. No there was no conscious. Zero. None.

[StarOfTheSea]

He had a fake empathy that he'd use when he thought it was the 'correct' way to act in a situation, but there was nothing genuine about it.

A conscience? No way. He did things that were straight up wrong and unethical ( and most likely illegal) without batting an eye. In fact it surprises me how poorly he treated me considering how much damning information he told me. But the biggest   was when he told me he killed his sick, elderly cat with his bare hands instead of having it humanely put down by a vet.