Last straw

[understandnow]

Please send me in the right direction... .my uBPD Dil keeps sending me nasty texts about me treating my sons daughter from another relationship better than her 3 kids.  After 8 years it's getting a little old.  The last being asked why I did not buy her children anything because she saw I dress on Facebook and grilled my granddaughter on who bought it for her.  I bought it at khols on a sale rack for $10.00 for her birthday.  I never responds to her texts fearing it will fuel the flame.  Please help I'm tired of this. I've read everything I could about BPD, set and boundaries but now I am angry with her treatment of me. My son doesn't stand up to her or his daughter.  I know defending myself would just be worse.

[Suzn]

Hi understandnow  

8 years is a long time to be badgered by your Dil. It's wearing on you.   Take a deep breath my friend.

She's jealous= feeling left out (?)= fear of abandonment. Ignoring her texts only strengthens her fears. It's understandable not to want to engage however we can work to turn this around over time. It won't be easy, it's work on our part and it won't happen over night. That doesn't mean you have to answer every single text, setting reasonable boundaries is important. Boundaries are not rules for her to go by they are rules for you to live by. You don't have to explain them all to her, in fact at times it's best that you don't. For example "I will not answer every text", you don't need to explain this to her just don't do it. It's reasonable for other people to know that we are not connected to our phones 24/7, we have a life that includes work, chores and personal time.

We need to come to an understanding that her feelings are facts... to her. We need to understand that we have to be the stronger, more "centered" person in the conversation. It's hard not take her words personally, the disorder is in charge... for her. It doesn't have to be for you. Look for the feeling behind her accusations when you are ready to address the issue.

We have a workshop page, it's here: The Learning Center

Here are a few you may not have read yet that will be helpful. Some of these workshops were designed for couples however the same technique principles apply. Read and reread.

Communication using validation. What it is; how to do it

TOOLS: Stop Invalidating Your Partner (or the BPD person in your life)

Radical Acceptance for family members

How to stop circular arguments

I've read everything I could about BPD, set and boundaries but now I am angry with her treatment of me.

Completely understandable. If you are angry it's time to take a time out. Turn off the phone and take some time for yourself until you are not longer feeling triggered. We are ineffective when we are angry. You cannot change her, you can only change how you react. (Or, don't react.)

My son doesn't stand up to her or his daughter.  

As hard as it is to accept, your son has chosen to stay. I have a brother in the exact same situation and it can be maddening and painful to watch. I have had to adjust my perspective on this and I remind myself that he is an adult and he is in control of his life journey, I cannot change it.

For a long period of time I could not be "happy" if he wasn't. I felt guilty if I did things he couldn't because of his situation. In other words, I was "dependent" on him being ok to be ok myself. This was my problem to deal with. I am a recovering codependent. I had to step back and let this go. It wasn't easy and it took time. With the help of my therapist and these boards it's gotten much easier to recognize when I start feeling the need to control his situation. I stop and remind myself that his choices are none of my business. I had to, the stress was becoming too much.

I know defending myself would just be worse.

You're right. Defending yourself is invalidating to a pwBPD because in their mind you are not "hearing" them.

No JADE

Justify

Argue

Defend

Explain

I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

[understandnow]

Deep breath taken... .thankyou.  I definetly agree on boundaries which I have set and explained to her.  That is why I didn't answer her text because my gd is a subject that is off limits to her because it is her stepdaughter and definetly a trigger.  I never thought of her as being jealous.  She could very well be and that would be something for her to deal with.

What really made me think was how I was feeling about not being happy if my son wasn't happy and I definetly feel that guilt.  I need to work on that.  Thank you for the articles I read them and my learning is an on going process.  I find this site invaluable.

[Suzn]

I never thought of her as being jealous.  She could very well be and that would be something for her to deal with.

I see your point. However, you are having to "deal" with it via the texts she is sending. Looking for the trigger behind her words to validate her "feeling=fact" (for her) will be key to helping you turn this around.

Acknowledge her upset. ":)il you seem to be upset and I can see how my buying gifts for granddaughter could make you feel that I have left out your children. I might feel the same way. (normalize it) We need to make plans to get together so I have the opportunity to do the same for your children."

How do you think this might make her feel? There are no guarantees of course and we can never really know how someone else is feeling, however, if the tables were turned how would you feel? By no means am I suggesting you "give in" to her irrational thoughts every time however saying something along these lines occasionally may help.

Thank you for the articles I read them and my learning is an on going process.  I find this site invaluable.

Me too. And yes, we didn't get here over night. Our learning process is ongoing for sure.  

[understandnow]

It is beyond that.  She said I won't ever see her kids again.  That was 4 months ago.  My son has been going behind her back and bringing them over, telling my 6 yr old granddaughter she has to keep it a secret.  Her children are showered with gifts from her parents and grandparents with pics of them on Facebook with ugg boots, name brand clothes ect.    My granddaughter has 11 American girl dolls.  Nothing for my other grand daughter.  My first gd comes from a family that is very financially challenged and I only give the clothes to her mom to look half way decent for school. It's not like I am buying her things in front of the other family.   Clothes come from sales rack from Walmart usually.  My son pays her no child support.  The other more fortunate gc have no idea what I buy her.  My Dil drill s my gd every time she has visitation with her dad where she got "that outfit" and gets mad at her.  My h and I co-raised my oldest gd the first 8 yrs of her life with her mother.  My son had no contact with her because my Dil made him choose her or his d.  He chose her.  I have the letter.

I don't want to have a friendship with her, only a relationship with her to keep family harmony. 

She has alienated my h and I from our gc through nothing that we did.  I have soul searched and don't know what I can do to please her.  My daughter who is a family crises interventional family therapist is also banned from seeing her children.  She hates our family and we have always taken the upper road.  Just tired of it.  I am a maternal child nurses for 33 yrs.  I would never hurt a child and she is being so unfair.  Sorry for the rant.  I am taking a deep breath.

Thanks for listening to me but I really don't want to have a friendship with her. 

[understandnow]

Here is the craziness of all this... .long conversation with my son... .my Dil is mad because when I buy her clothes, my gd goes to school Looking decent, the school will not realize that her mother is neglectful.  She is withholding my grandchildren from my whole family because I buy things for my gd and give to her mother, my sons ex. My son pays no child support and my gd mother is a hard working underprivileged person who is supporting a household.  How can I work with that, when my Dil and sons three children have ugg boots, Jordan's, 11 American girl dolls and the list goes on.  My Dil is unreasonable and refuses to see that I am trying to give my gd12 some sense of self esteem.  They do buy her clothes, but she is never allowed to bring them to her moms house. 

[Suzn]

My Dil drill s my gd every time she has visitation with her dad where she got "that outfit" and gets mad at her.

This is very sad. It's also emotionally abusive to a 6 year old.

I don't want to have a friendship with her, only a relationship with her to keep family harmony.

You do not have to be friends with her nor do you have to agree with her. The latter in what you said here is your goal.

 

She has alienated my h and I from our gc through nothing that we did.  I have soul searched and don't know what I can do to please her.  

You are a threat to her. You can take away your son and possibly her children. (In her mind) She has a need to be the center of attention. The proof of that is that she would expect a grown man to give up his child for her. She does not comprehend that someone can love their child and her. This is disordered thinking. Your only advantage is to learn more about how a disordered person thinks so you can respond appropriately.

my Dil is mad because when I buy her clothes, my gd goes to school Looking decent, the school will not realize that her mother is neglectful.

Is she neglectful? Is there a custody issue going on?

She is withholding my grandchildren from my whole family because I buy things for my gd and give to her mother, my sons ex.

Again, your family is a threat. So is your exDil, the mother of one of his children. This likely has nothing to do with what you buy, this is about control and isolating your son from his family. She has a fear of losing him to you. (fear of abandonment)

My son pays no child support and my gd mother is a hard working underprivileged person who is supporting a household.

This is your son's and exDIL's fight, not yours. It is very sad that he is not helping to support his child. This may have lasting effects on her. Namely her self worth since he has chosen to support other children and not her. This is likely triangulation and it's best not to take sides.

How can I work with that, when my Dil and sons three children have ugg boots, Jordan's, 11 American girl dolls and the list goes on.  My Dil is unreasonable and refuses to see that I am trying to give my gd12 some sense of self esteem. They do buy her clothes, but she is never allowed to bring them to her moms house.  

She does not think like you do, this is the disorder. You do not have to explain your actions in regards to your granddaughter to anyone if you are providing basic necessities for her. I would not be open to discuss this with her either. How often does she spend time with her dad?

My uBPD Dil keeps sending me nasty texts about me treating my sons daughter from another relationship better than her 3 kids.  

She needs a reason to devalue you in order to continue to isolate your son. The jealousy is more likely about you having contact with your son than the gifts you buy. AND that his attention is taken from her by another woman's child, his daughter. By validating her "upset" (not agreeing with it but SEEING it and acknowledging it) you take this power over you away from her. This isn't a game, I'm not suggesting these techniques to "win." It's to get what you want and what's best for everyone involved... at minimum... cordial, harmony. (So she will stop texting you hateful things.) This is upsetting to you and it's difficult to emotionally distance yourself when you are upset.

By normalizing her upset... ."I might feel the same way" she feels heard. It doesn't mean you agree.

By offering a time to get together... .you are putting an offer to reconcile her upset on the table. You are putting this in her hands to chose. She will probably say no the first 10 times you offer (or 5 or forever), meaning you repeat this response over and over each time she sends hateful texts. If she says no you can let her know you understand and the offer is on the table if she changes her mind.

She will stop texting about the same issue when she realizes you aren't going to change your response. Does that make sense?

My son has been going behind her back and bringing them over, telling my 6 yr old granddaughter she has to keep it a secret.  

This is concerning. For two reasons, one, your son is teaching his 6 year old to lie to her mother and even at 6 she knows it's wrong to lie to mom. This can cause anxiety in a child. Two, if this child slips and tells, how do you think her mom will react? Who is going to pay the price?

[understandnow]

Your insight is invaluable suzn.  Thankyou.  I agree with most of what you said.  My gd12 lived with my son and Dil for a year because her mom went homeless .  The mom got back on her feet and went for primary custody.    Mom won because of emotional abuse by my Dil To my gd12.  Yes she is emotionally abusive to her other 3 kids and it is horrible to watch.  She is truly disordered.  I understand that.  The one  thing I have trouble with is validating her.

I sent her a reconciliation letter saying she was an important person in our family an I would like to get past all this.  I told her my personal limits which were " you don't. Have to like us and what we do but you need to treat us with respect and kindness" and that we will continue to be involved in my gd's life". She liked the letter but didn't like our boundaries.  Surprise.  I did state I understand that she is upset.  I have a problem with the advice " I maybe would feel the same". I wouldn't feel the same. is there other responds I could say.

[Sunfl0wer]

Suzn has given you excellent advice!

Your story triggered a small rant in me... .

(Hope you don't mind)

This reminds me a bit of my sister who has BPD.  When her kids were growing up, she was always jealous of me spending money on them when we went out.  I could take them to the circus and buy them ice cream.  I suspect what would happen for her is that she would add up the bill in her head on what was spent, then feel a sense of entitlement, and be pissed that I spent $50 bucks that SHE could have instead used better, maybe on something else she or the kids needed.  I'll never forget the time I contributed to one of the girls school fundraiser's.  She was furious!  I could not fathom it.  She impulsively "slipped" and explained that she could have spent the $10 on something else that she needed, and felt that it was a big waste of money to contribute!  The kid was about 8yrs old, no one had contributed, she was looking like she felt shamed to go back to school empty handed.  I couldn't believe how selfish she could be to not see any other perspective or care.

When reading your situation I suspect the way your DIL thinks of it is this... .

(By the way... .I think it is awesome that you look out for that little girl.  So what if you bought her much needed clothing or her own set of 15 American girl dolls and no one else.  It is YOUR money to spend, no one else's.  There is no need to defend that.  I also don't think there is need to offer to try to buy her kids more when she complains.  Your money, your choice. Although it is logical in that she withholds the kids, therefore limiting your opportunity to buy them a 10 buck clearance item.)

So anyway... .

I suspect that she has likely decided she is jealous of the mom and/or first gd because:

She is your son's ex.

I may appear to her that you are "supporting" her more than herself.  She may feel that you are "wasting" your money investing it in a "useless" person when she herself could do so much more with it.  She is more deserving/entitled.

She may have wanted to see his ex naturally fail,(evidence that she is better than her) and tried to contribute to this by making her life more difficult in gd not being allowed to bring clothes back home.  You are essentially NOT supporting HER because you are undoing what SHE is doing.  She may think you are: undermining her, betraying her, betraying her r/s with your son, alienating her kids... .etc.  (I don't see this at all... .just explaining her possible perspective)

Of course though, what matters more is not what her experience is, but your own.


Also... .

I'm sorry that she is keeping the grand kids from you... .that just sucks!  

[understandnow]

SunflOwer, I don't mind if you rant.  This disorder is so unbelievable.  The only reason I want to keep harmony in the family is because I know of her insecurities and understand where she is coming from.  Sometimes we just need to check our realities.  Thanks for the input!

[Suzn]

The mom got back on her feet and went for primary custody.    Mom won because of emotional abuse by my Dil To my gd12.

Dil's mask was removed here. A normal person would be ashamed/embarrassed and work to fix this in themselves. Your Dil is projecting her shame/anger on you, your family and your gd. What happened in court? How is it that your gd is being exposed, unsupervised, to your Dil at this point?

Since this is on record how is it that she is allowed to care for other children in the home? 

I sent her a reconciliation letter saying she was an important person in our family an I would like to get past all this.  I told her my personal limits which were " you don't. Have to like us and what we do but you need to treat us with respect and kindness" and that we will continue to be involved in my gd's life". She liked the letter but didn't like our boundaries.  Surprise.  I did state I understand that she is upset. 

Letters rarely go well, especially if they are long. A pwBPD can get stuck on or triggered by a sentence or just a wrong word. (Wrong in their mind) It's best to keep letters very short and sweet.

I have a problem with the advice " I maybe would feel the same". I wouldn't feel the same. is there other responds I could say.

I think a lot of people would feel that way.

Anyone would feel that way.

Just examples, you can use your own words.

I can see you value honesty. It's one of your values and living by our values is good practice.

Why is it a problem here? ^^^^

My son has been going behind her back and bringing them over, telling my 6 yr old granddaughter she has to keep it a secret. 

But but not a problem here? ^^^^^

If it is on record that she is emotionally abusive to your 12 yr old gd and you have witnessed emotional abuse with her own children then this is a ticking bomb waiting to go off. The 6 yr old child will pay the price, along with everyone else.

Validating her isn't about saying she's right and you are wrong. Instead, it is empathizing with her emotions. It's identifying what you see and verbalizing it so she knows you get it. You don't have to agree with what she feels. It's good that you validated her anger in your letter. She was shamed in court and a pwBPD will do anything to avoid shame because they lack the coping skills to handle it. It sounds like that's what this particular situation is all about.

Has your son ever considered therapy to help him with what he's up against? Everyone in this woman's life is enabling her to be just as she is. In other words, she won't see a reason to change until she is uncomfortable enough with her situation to make any changes in herself. She likely thinks she's just fine and everyone else is the problem.

[understandnow]

My son has refused therapy and says it won't help.  She has refused therapy suggested by my son.

I never would want to hurt my granddaughter.  Yes I agree  my son sneaking the kids over to see me is not good for the kids in the long run.  Do you had any suggestions?  Should I not see them.  I had discussed this with my son and he told me she knew about it, then he said yesterday that she didn't.   I did tell him it is not good to keep this from her but he is afraid of her because then he gets the retaliation.  He won't stand up to her.  Any suggestions would be helpful.

[Suzn]

I never would want to hurt my granddaughter.  

I believe you understandnow. No judgment here. I know how painful this situation is.  

Teaching a child to keep secrets from a parent in general can make them vulnerable to strangers. Outside of that, her mother has shown to be unstable and abusive towards her already from what you've shared.

How can you protect her from that with this situation? Do you think your Dil will believe you if you told her you thought she knew you were seeing them and her H having her daughter keep secrets from her?

It's unfortunate your son refuses therapy, it may be very helpful to him. Do you think therapy would be helpful for you with what you've been up against for 8 years? My T has been very insightful with my situation with my brother.

[understandnow]

Yes suzn. I was contemplating it myself and thought I could help myself through this board.  It has helped me tremendously but I am definitely calling tomorrow and make an apt.  I know you are right.  So much has gone on that I haven't written and is so unbelievable all from someone I understand more now but still can't wrap My head around it. Never had I met a person that was as toxic to so many people, especially those innocent babies.  Thank you so much.

[Sunfl0wer]

Have you read any of the links around here on PAS?  There are great videos by Dr. Childress.  They explain in great detail what is going on in the dynamic where the disordered parent is using the child as a tool for their issues.  It is in the context of PAS against the other parent, however, it does give insight into the driving forces and dynamics of parties involved.

[Suzn]

These boards and therapy work very well together. Keep posting, it helps.

[understandnow]

Thankyou Suzn and sunflOwer!  I will read PAS.