How to Talk to the Village

[DrBart]

My wife of 20 years left me 6 months ago.  My therapist quickly identified BPD patterns that I've missed since the beginning.  My wife denies that there is anything wrong with her.  She will not talk to me.

I accept we will never be a couple again.  Still I care deeply for her, and of course our 3 children. 

Her rage is reaching new heights as she makes increasingly bizarre personal and financial decisions. The kids have made up their minds that she's crazy.  So have several friends. 

More distant friends, and some of her family, are taking her side.  She has made false allegations of emotional abuse and controlling behavior that they find credible.

Question: how can I engage her negative advocates?  On the one hand they seem unwittingly complicit in her self-destruction.  On the other, I'm not sure I know what to recommend to them, other than to visit this site.   

If it's simply seen as a smear campaign, it will only make things worse.

This is my first post.  Thank you.

[bravhart1]

My advice is to let go of the idea of getting the "others" to understand. They are going to think what they want to think. It makes it easier for them to deal with her if they go along with her way of thinking. If she rages at them for not believing her, and you remain reasonable then folks take the path of least resistance. That's on them.

You just sit back and filter through the quality people who don't accept or want to believe her lies, and understand the ones that are able to think for themselves are the ones who you want in your life. The ones who are willing to believe her without fact checking her stories aren't worth your efforts.

What's ahead of you gets a lot harder, focus your efforts on you and the kids.

[livednlearned]

Is the extent of her false allegations that you are emotionally abusive and controlling, or is there more that she is up to? How old are the kids?

You may lose the negative advocates like bravhart1 mentions. Is your case likely to end up in court where they could be called to testify?

If you do not anticipate being in a divorce or custody battle, there are probably some ways you could engage with them, although without a lot of skill and emotional grounding, which isn't common during or immediately following a divorce, this would likely be extremely exhausting and potentially futile. However, if there are legal actions likely, then it's better to disengage and lay low, and like bravhart1 recommends, focus your efforts on you and the kids.

Where are the kids right now? Are they in contact with her?

[still_in_shock]

I agree with braveheart1.

When my husband dumped me out of a blue, just like you, I was so preoccupied and concerned with how he trashed me to all his friends and family. While I didn't care too much about his immature and stupid friends, I did care for my reputation with his family. He married me as impulsively and fast and he's decided to divorce me 1.5 yr later. As his family was not aware about us dating and him marrying me soon after, I was that secret bride who was suddenly introduced to the family about 2 months into our marriage. Needless to say, they've been all shocked as they did not even know he was seeing/interested in someone.

Coming from a culture very different than his, it took his family some time and very careful consideration as to accepting me. I was really trying to develop relationship with them and earn their trust. Where I come from we do respect our inlaws, and especially spouses' parents, so the relationship with his mom was very important to me. Plus, I was getting to love her. She is one sweet gentle lady. So while I was so glad that I was able to break the ice with his family, we started getting closer and being in touch visiting with each other, he all of a sudden has shocked us all announcing he is now divorcing me. To justify his decision, he started trashing me so badly especially to his mom (as he knew she was getting to like me) trying to change their good opinion about me. So that, has upset me the most. And I did lose my peace thinking about her and her opinion about me. And of course, he did everything possible to cut my contacts with his family and prohibited his mom from ever contacting me. So we never spoke for me to even explain what was going on. She knows his side of the story only, and that is - her son's wife all of a sudden went mentally ill and delusional.

Anyway, for about 4-5 months I was so anxious and restless as to thinking of ways how to defend myself in his family eyes. I couldn't talk to them (they wouldn't contact me as he scared them saying I'd come after them hurting them (what an ass)), and I did not want to call them myself as it would be validating his accusations as to me stalking them. So for several months, my hurt with the injustice and ridiculous accusations by the person (who yet 1.5. yr ago was praising me to the skies with the same people presenting me as a goddess of intellect, achievement and beauty) was eroding me from within. At one point I thought that after the divorce, I'd collect all the evidence of his emotional and verbal abuse and ship them all to his mom to clear my name off of the nasty rumors. And then, I've realized how much of my time, energy and physical wellbeing my efforts of clearing myself off of his BS is costing me. The thoughts were taking the toll on my peace and wellbeing. I could not work thinking about it all the time. I then realized if I don't stop torturing myself thinking of the other's opinion, I will lose even this temp job that I have, and THAT would be just too bad... It took me utmost efforts to work on redirecting my energy in the right channel, and that is thinking of ME and MY WELLBEING.

And soon after, his mom sent me a message saying that she loves me, is thinking of me and etc. That, I guess, has helped to finally calm down and stop focusing on him and direct all the energy on myself and personal development and moving on with my life. Someone also said to me very wise words "stop thinking of him and how he'd be paying for his deeds, and start focusing on your own future and that it is great". Which I am doing, with intermittent success.

I understand, this approach would be much harder for you to adopt as you have a long history with her, and children. I cannot imagine

how hard it must be for people who have lived with BPDs for so long and then been suddenly discarded... I am very sorry about your case. But all I can recommend it to stop thinking of what the village thinks about you, and focus on YOUR wellbeing, healing and rebuilding YOUR life. I also believe the Universe (God) sees it all and will take care of the village for you. I guess, to us, the victims, the best strategy (once we are out of the situation) is to not battle and involve with their mess even more, but go NC and focus on our own lives and the healing.

Good luck!

[ForeverDad]

She will do or not do whatever she does or doesn't do. You have little or no control over that.  Same for her negative advocates, your bland facts would have a hard time overcoming her emotionally compelling claims.  Likely only time will have the most impact on them, if they see cracks in her Mask of Seeming Normalcy/Victimhood.

I would not point her negative advocates to this site, your general anonymity may get compromised and knowledge of your legal strategies and coping resources could be used to sabotage you.

[bravhart1]

I also want to point out that if she is typical of borderlines, she will eventually paint them black and they will be on the outs, getting the lies told about them.

What goes around comes around... .

[DrBart]

Everyone:

Wow.  Thank you.  I am overwhelmed by the feeling of being instantly understood.  Sort of the opposite of my reality these past few months, where I often haven't understood myself.  I'm humbled by your voices of experience. 

My apologies for the long delay in responding.

The kids are going back and forth between us right now.  I don't know if she's planning to go for custody.  It seems preposterous given her behavior towards the kids - I won't tell stories here to avoid being identifiable - but that goes with the territory, right?

The 'abuse' accusations have all but disappeared, for now.  I'm not sure why. 

Soon after I posted I received an irate phone call from her dad.  As I listened to his accusations, based in her reality, I realized two things: that there was no way to defend against them, and that my respect for him was rapidly evaporating.

If you're going to condemn without evidence, then I can't help you.

The point about her turning on her advocates eventually -- yes that is so true.  At least two of her  friends have been stunned by how quickly she turned on them for saying the wrong thing.

She lashes out so quickly.  She is hurting her own cause.

That is the truly heartbreaking thing for me.  Yes, I "benefit" when she shoots herself, in a narrow legal sense.  My therapist has underlined how much better that is to the alternative, i.e. her landing some real lasting injury through ingenious deceit - "better a borderline than a psychopath."

But still, I care for her.  She has been the love of my life for two decades.   To see her hurt herself, even as she's swinging at me... .I don't feel anything but sorrow.

Thanks again.

[livednlearned]

To see her hurt herself, even as she's swinging at me... .I don't feel anything but sorrow.

That sums up so well how I feel about my ex, DrBart.

Having to protect yourself from someone you care about is truly one of the most baffling experiences. Constant emotional gymnastics to figure out how to run the gauntlet on that one. 

[maxen]

di DrBart. i'm sorry for what you've experienced but i'm happy at least that you have a social network who see what's up (your children, some of your friends, some of her friends, your therapist). that's very important for recovery. you also seem to be dealing with this awfully well, considering. i hope you find this board helpful too.

you touch on one aspect of your breakup (which in many ways was like mine) that has given me no end of sadness:

Soon after I posted I received an irate phone call from her dad. As I listened to his accusations, based in her reality, I realized two things: that there was no way to defend against them, and that my respect for him was rapidly evaporating.

i got no such phone call: my exw's family cut me off instantly and she culled (to use my cousin's term) my family on FB. i knew that my exw's family was tribalist and arrogant. but even knowing that, the callousness of her parents in the face of what was done to me has been wounding and i wonder now even if they're capable of empathy. how can i retain respect for someone who was my father-in-law after all this? and this is a bishop we're talking about. i've failed as yet to square their claims to religion with the plain record of their behaviors.

i was early on in a fury to contact them and only gave in once. i'm glad it was no more often, it would only have compounded the frustration. as others have said above, we have little or no control over how others will choose to respond.

i agree with forever dad that you should preserve your anonymity here, esp. if you'd like to talk about legal aspects in future. please keep posting!

[getting_better]

Hey, Bart -

Bill Eddy's book, Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone With Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder has a few suggested letters to the "Village" in the Appendix.  I actually emailed several friends and family members one of the letters (with my own modifications to personalize).  I didn't get a ton of response, but a few friends and family members responded positively.  

My stbx dBPDw found out about the emails and raged at me as expected, but I feel good about the decision, and I think it was the right thing to do.  I filed for divorce 2 months ago, and I'm sure I'm at the beginning of this crazy train, but - as you know - we've been on the crazy train for a while, and I'm finally starting to see a light at the end of the tunnel. We've been married for 23 years.  5 kids (one took his life last year after his mom raged at him for hours in the middle of the night).  I understand and can relate with the sadness of moving on.  I do miss her, but I wish I'd had the strength to be honest and courageous years ago.  I think it would have been better for both of us.  But - as Maya Angelou said: ":)o the best you can until you know better.  Then, when you know better, do better."  I'm getting better.

Good luck! Hang in there.

[Thread]

Getting_better

I'm curious what that letter said? I'm going through a second separation w my h BPD after too much emotional abuse and my becoming functioning for my job, my business and non functioning in the other areas. People are lucky I still have been showering. I am experiencing ideations of self harm and PTSD nightmares of h BPD yelling at me. I am suffering from anxiety especially when he rages and depression.

His family has painted me black since the first separation. He was constantly manipulating me with suicidal threats, which they didn't believe when I reached out for help. That's when I cut them out. I asked so many times and no response.

(I didn't know to the extend of what borderline was when I accepted him back I thought he changed and was really truly apologetic) no, I was wrong he just had a goal of getting me back.

I am curious what that letter said. For future reference. His family thinks I am the root of his problems, however drugs, irrational behaviors, alcohol, bad relationships, and impulsive decision making was there long before he met me.

[getting_better]

Here's the text:

As you may know, I am facing a difficult divorce.  To help myself, I am reading the book Splitting; Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder.  It recommends many things I can do to help myself, including getting support from important friends like you and telling you about potential problems and easy ways to respond.

According to the book, first of all, I will need to pace myself, because this could be a long, drawn-out, emotional process.  I will need a lot of support and encouragement at times, but I won’t rely on just one person because I don’t want to wear anyone out.  I may really want to talk to you at times, but please tell me if it’s not a good time for you.

Second, although it may be tempting, please don’t take sides in our separation or divorce.  While your siding with me may give me a temporary feeling of satisfaction, it is a form of all-or-nothing thinking that reinforces seeing one person as all bad and the other as all good.  The courts don’t like this, and it can end up hurting both of us, and our kids, too.  So I’m trying to avoid this kind of thinking and avoid seeing _____ as a bad person, even if there are some serious problems.  With this in mind, please avoid making angry statements on my behalf to _______ and her family or friends.  Such statements sometimes end up being repeated in court documents.

Third, lots of negative things may be said about me that aren’t true.  I am asking you to check them out with me directly before you believe them.  In a high-conflict divorce, there are lots of strong emotions, and some people seriously distort the facts. ______ and others may claim that I said or did things that I didn’t do. These distortions may be unconscious and swayed by emotions, so that person may actually believe them.  Please find out the truth and give me a chance to respond to negative information before you change your feelings about me or pass information around.

Fourth, if you want to help me in my case, please ask me what you can do.  You may be able to do some research, gather information, make phone calls, help explain things to my lawyer, sit with me in court, and so on.  Most of the time, I will be open to your suggestions.  But sometimes, I may be overloaded and just need someone to listen and give me encouragement.

If you want to understand what I may be facing in this difficult separation and divorce, you can also read Splitting and help me recognize potential problems as they arise.  But please remember that ultimately I am the one responsible for decisions that will affect the rest of our lives.  I will use my best judgment and consult with my lawyer, therapist, or both.

Thank you for being there for me.  I may not be able to tell you just how important you are, because of the stress I am going through, but I appreciate your help, love, and understanding.

[Thread]

That's really good! Really straight forward. I feel like people don't get the lying thing except for people like us who have experienced it first hand. And sometimes the BPD people just do really believe the lies. It's for crazy making.

[Surg_Bear]

sometimes the BPD people just do really believe the lies.

I am CERTAIN they believe the lies.

It is their reality.  If they could appreciate "our reality" they wouldn't be pwBPD.

They have believed their "lies" since their childhoods- it's how they coped with an inhumane, cold, scary and abusive world.  They split, and when the split off part doesn't exist, their minds "make stuff up".  But this making up of stuff is not a conscious decision made by a reasonable person- it is a fabrication made by a person whose brain has never worked in a world without crazy making, splitting, black-white, push-pull, borderline thinking.  Their "lies" are as true to them as your "truth."

They believe the "lies" as certainly and with as much reality as we believe our reality.

This is why it is SO hard to get a pwBPD to really "see" that they HAVE BPD.  They can't possibly imagine that their reality is that distorted.  What would it feel like if YOUR reality was challenged?  I know if my reality was challenged, I would LOSE IT- at least temporarily, until I could let go of the old reality, and see the truth of the new one.  I would be able to do this because I am an "non." 

This is why they are SO good at charming people, and scaring people away.  They believe their reality with such commitment that it IS real.

When a pwBPD says something it is not a thing they are aware they made up, it is not even something they "have to believe"- they say it, think it, and believe it to the core of their being because IT IS REAL, HONEST AND TRUTHFUL - insofar as their eyes can see.

Surg_Bear

[DrBart]

Thanks for posting that, Getting_Better.  I came cross that passagef first posting and chickened out.  My friends would say

"yeah so what?"  and the neg- advocates would see it as a trick.     

It is an amazing zen insight that so often we go so worked up something has to happen a certain way and when it doesn't, it's not so bad, or better than you thought.

You can't please al the people all the time.  An they harder they are to please, the more likely they don't belong on your team.

I look around at those that remain convinced of a very different truth.  And I just have nothing for them. They are not going go know me.  That is their loss.

Oh brave and bold breathes of self-assertion!  How delightfully incorrect and liberating.

Time will tell, in the Bob Marley sense.   One day they will lear learn the nature of their horse they backed.

Peace.

DrB.

[jedimaster]

When I run into someone whom I haven't seen in a while or someone asks, "How's Mrs. Jedimaster?"  I simply tell the facts:  I assume she's doing OK; we're separated and getting a divorce, and I don't talk to her much; and I'm doing fine, thanks." 

True friends will accept that and not insert themselves into your personal life.  Even decent people who might be sympathetic to her side should be able to do that as well.  People who feel compelled to do otherwise won't be swayed by anything you say and aren't worth the time.  You need all your emotional strength just to deal with the BPD person in your life.