3.5 months of NC with my exuBPD+HPDexgf - an update

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Hi all! I was willing to share with you an update about my 3.5 months of N/C with my uBPD+HPDexgf.

You can find my story here:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=274152.msg12598159#msg12598159

Just to do a quick wrap-up of my story: b/u at the end of December, after 1.5 years of relationship, tried to recover/rekindle the relationship through January (while she was seeing at least 2 other men), brutally replaced me definitively on the 1st of Febraury, in front of my eyes, and finally N/C since the end of February (mutual).

Since N/C started, I didn't hear anything from her and I struggled (and I'm still struggling, to be honest) with the grieving process: I'm kinda stuck between the acceptance and the depression stages, basically going back and forth, even if I don't feel so much depressed anymore (which is a good sign, I think). I can say that I mostly coped with the grieving process by rationalizing (basically, studying deeply BPD and HPD) which, I think, is one of the most mature, healty and evolute defence mechanisms one could use in the process.

I wanted to share with you an update because I got some very interesting news regarding my ex in the very last days; news which, somehow,  give me some more validation and closure.

Since April my ex got a new job (in a luxury hotel), and she was really enthusiastic and full of hope about it.

So, as I said above, few days ago I met a friend of a friend who worked with her during April and May, and gave me some very interesting updates. Basically:

1) my ex came drunk at work almost EVERY day and, because of this, she was often fighting and acting out with colleagues and clients. because of this, she was also exibithing the behaviours I'm reporting below.

2) my ex was sexually very provocative with the hotel manager (flirting), as well as with some of the male clients.

3) In many cases my ex was dressing in a too much sexy way - given the working context. Clearly, the goal was to attract the attention of males.

4) my ex was constantly praising her physique with the colleagues, like saying: "look at my b00bs, they are beautiful!".

5) Sometimes my ex was advertising her sexual activity with my replacement.

6) My ex was constantly blaming her mother (it was a constant throughout our relationship as well).

7) My ex never mentioned me with her colleagues (not good or bad things).

8) In the end, my ex ended up having a fight with the hotel manager and, as a result, she lost the job at the end of May.


In some sense, all these things give me a considerable amount of validation and closure in the following aspects:

1) The heavy, abnormal drinking, points out that, very probably, my ex has huge psycological issues going on.

A person who's happy about the new job/relationship wouldn't behave like this.

My hypotesis is that, maybe, she was/is grieving under the hood the relationship she had with me (indeed, she told me she used alcohol to not think about her problems); or, maybe, our failed relationship just adds up to the huge list of failures inside her chaotic life.

Also, the fact that she never mentioned me (point 7), tells me that, somehow, she knows that she behaved VERY badly with me; I think this is her own way of paying her respect towards me - she knows I loved her deeply.

2) Points [2-5] confirm to me that she's comorbid HPD. However, it really strikes me the fact that, even if there were some clear signs of HPD throughout our relationship, they were quite mild. Now, it seems that her HPD-side literally exploded after the end of our relationship, like a bird freed from a cage. HPD is not so much covered here, so it would be really interesting to hear the experiences of other users.

3) Points [2-5] clearly tells me that she's not managing seriously the relationship with the replacement; or, anyway, she's managing it in a extremely disregulated way.

4) The fact that she lost again a good job confirms, again, that she's not able to manage long-lasting relationships, be them sentimental, friendship or working.

So, in conclusion, how I feel? In these months I was coping with the grieving process and dated some other women; I realized I have still work to do, since I'm not detached yet. On the one hand I feel quite validated and, somehow, I have more closure, since the facts above tell me that she's heavily dysregulating and exibithing full-blown BPD/HPD traits, probably worsened by the alcohol; on the other hand, I'm really sorry that a clever woman like her is destroying her own life in such a horrible, dramatic and stupid way. Anyway, I perfectly know that it is nonsense to break N/C, I have to care about myself and the only person who can save her is herself.

Interested into hearing your opinions... .

[Fr4nz]

Hi all! I was willing to share with you an update about my 3.5 months of N/C with my uBPD+HPDexgf.

You can find my story here:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=274152.msg12598159#msg12598159

Just to do a quick wrap-up of my story: b/u at the end of December, after 1.5 years of relationship, tried to recover/rekindle the relationship through January (while she was seeing at least 2 other men), brutally replaced me definitively on the 1st of Febraury, in front of my eyes, and finally N/C since the end of February (mutual).

Since N/C started, I didn't hear anything from her and I struggled (and I'm still struggling, to be honest) with the grieving process: I'm kinda stuck between the acceptance and the depression stages, basically going back and forth, even if I don't feel so much depressed anymore (which is a good sign, I think). I can say that I mostly coped with the grieving process by rationalizing (basically, studying deeply BPD and HPD) which, I think, is one of the most mature, healty and evolute defence mechanisms one could use in the process.

I wanted to share with you an update because I got some very interesting news regarding my ex in the very last days; news which, somehow,  give me some more validation and closure.

Since April my ex got a new job (in a luxury hotel), and she was really enthusiastic and full of hope about it.

So, as I said above, few days ago I met a friend of a friend who worked with her during April and May, and gave me some very interesting updates. Basically:

1) my ex came drunk at work almost EVERY day and, because of this, she was often fighting and acting out with colleagues and clients. because of this, she was also exibithing the behaviours I'm reporting below.

2) my ex was sexually very provocative with the hotel manager (flirting), as well as with some of the male clients.

3) In many cases my ex was dressing in a too much sexy way - given the working context. Clearly, the goal was to attract the attention of males.

4) my ex was constantly praising her physique with the colleagues, like saying: "look at my b00bs, they are beautiful!".

5) Sometimes my ex was advertising her sexual activity with my replacement.

6) My ex was constantly blaming her mother (it was a constant throughout our relationship as well).

7) My ex never mentioned me with her colleagues (not good or bad things).

8) In the end, my ex ended up having a fight with the hotel manager and, as a result, she lost the job at the end of May.


In some sense, all these things give me a considerable amount of validation and closure in the following aspects:

1) The heavy, abnormal drinking, points out that, very probably, my ex has huge psycological issues going on.

A person who's happy about the new job/relationship wouldn't behave like this.

My hypotesis is that, maybe, she was/is grieving under the hood the relationship she had with me (indeed, she told me she used alcohol to not think about her problems); or, maybe, our failed relationship just adds up to the huge list of failures inside her chaotic life.

Also, the fact that she never mentioned me (point 7), tells me that, somehow, she knows that she behaved VERY badly with me; I think this is her own way of paying her respect towards me - she knows I loved her deeply.

2) Points [2-5] confirm to me that she's comorbid HPD. However, it really strikes me the fact that, even if there were some clear signs of HPD throughout our relationship, they were quite mild. Now, it seems that her HPD-side literally exploded after the end of our relationship, like a bird freed from a cage. HPD is not so much covered here, so it would be really interesting to hear the experiences of other users.

3) Points [2-5] clearly tells me that she's not managing seriously the relationship with the replacement; or, anyway, she's managing it in a extremely disregulated way.

4) The fact that she lost again a good job confirms, again, that she's not able to manage long-lasting relationships, be them sentimental, friendship or working.

So, in conclusion, how I feel? In these months I was coping with the grieving process and dated some other women; I realized I have still work to do, since I'm not detached yet. On the one hand I feel quite validated and, somehow, I have more closure, since the facts above tell me that she's heavily dysregulating and exibithing full-blown BPD/HPD traits, probably worsened by the alcohol; on the other hand, I'm really sorry that a clever woman like her is destroying her own life in such a horrible, dramatic and stupid way. Anyway, I perfectly know that it is nonsense to break N/C, I have to care about myself and the only person who can save her is herself.

Interested into hearing your opinions... .

[jammo1989]

Hey FR4, I can completely relate to your exes behavior as mine showed strong HPD traits, which as you earlier mentioned doesn't get spoken about on this forum.  I am currently 10 months NC with my ex and I would like to share with you what ive learned about HPD and why they act the way they do, I really hope what im about to write can help you analyse and put the pieces to the puzzle together.

HPDs thrive off drama, drama to them is what is needed in order to feel complete, this is because they have a low self worth thus is deep rooted and only her inner circle will experience it. She is being the aggressor in order to attain attention from others positive or negative. If you want to really go deep into this behavior imagine a child growing up who was starved of attention. For example "If that child was ignored and neglected during the childhood development of affection the child would lash out in order to gain the attention from the parent. For example "If i get in trouble in school maybe my mum/ dad will listen to me". What she is doing is called baiting, she is provoking a response usually negative in order to sustain your and others attention. You must also remember that if a child grew up in a dramatic unstable environment that is where they will feel most safe, this is why HPD/BPD will cause chaos out of no where because it is something their not accustomed to. The aggressor or provoker behavior is self learned behavior from childhood and is hard to understand especially if you grew up with loving parents that taught you love, trust and empathy towards others. My stance as a NON goes like this:

If a child was neglected at birth,not put to bed every night, cuddled, and kissed they miss out on the fundamental psychological development that are learned at a very early age, when they miss out on these stages they are left with very faulty brain wiring, they are scared to trust, this is where the HPD really comes to light, they will test us out of fear of being neglected, they provoke us (bait) in order to test our protector behavior, they will also let you know that they are highly desirable and that so many men want them, all they are doing is testing to see how we respond. For example If you get jealous and excessively angry they will see it as you care enough not to stray and that shes your woman. If your response takes the form of an alpha male "Yeah thats great I got loads of girls waiting in line for me to" She will sense abandonment and she will secretly line up plan B,C and D just in case you mess up one more time. Furthermore, it doesnt matter what you do at this point she will cheat, she will do this solely on the basis that she will now be talking to other guys and with Narcissistic supply it gives her a sense of power, this is where you see the the fake image of the HPD "John said I have sexy legs" Im meeting up with James tonight should be fun" She is fulfilling her needs through validation from others, when shes telling you all these things whats really happening is this "I have such a low self esteem and I am worthless BUT John thinks this James thinks that" she is creating a fake image (a mask) basically the HPD will provoke you in order for you to fight for her, she wants you to fight for her because her parents never did.

As a NON with experience I have learned that HPDs are a lost cause, the more you step up to the plate the more they will push you away, and what you will find is that they over time will turn you into a Narcissist. For example, It doesnt matter how muscular or how much money you think you have, a HPD will make you be little you during the devaluation stages, a HPD can not see who we are as people, our traits and the reason why they loved us we were simply their to give them the attention they never had. So going back to the Narc, my ex would see a guy on steroids in the street and be like "WOW his arms are massive compared to yours" while holding hands, it got to the point with me where I was judging others in order to make myself seem more appealing towards my ex HPD. For example " Why are you talking to that scrawny loser" (if he was shorter and smaller than me) I would put others down who gave her attention because the HPD creates a part of you that is so competitive its unhealthy. Why do we do this? simply because it doesnt matter how much money you have or how alpha male you feel, if they want to flirt with a bigger, more wealthy person in front of you they will, so in order to protect ourselves from this I especially turned into a bit of a Narcissist, and that is where and when the HPD breaks away because it doesnt matter how hurt she makes you, you NEVER show her your upset, because this is power to her, I pretended I didnt care at the end she would tell me about all these guys and I would say yeah I have loads of girls to (i didnt) and as you stop caring you fail her tests, she then senses abandonment and you are left alone while shes straight onto plan B.

[Fr4nz]

Hi Jammo,

you made very interesting points which fit pretty well what I observed during the relationship and got to know after N/C started. I'll review some of your statements below.

Hey FR4, I can completely relate to your exes behavior as mine showed strong HPD traits, which as you earlier mentioned doesn't get spoken about on this forum.  I am currently 10 months NC with my ex and I would like to share with you what ive learned about HPD and why they act the way they do, I really hope what im about to write can help you analyse and put the pieces to the puzzle together.

HPDs thrive off drama, drama to them is what is needed in order to feel complete, this is because they have a low self worth thus is deep rooted and only her inner circle will experience it. She is being the aggressor in order to attain attention from others positive or negative. If you want to really go deep into this behavior imagine a child growing up who was starved of attention. For example "If that child was ignored and neglected during the childhood development of affection the child would lash out in order to gain the attention from the parent. For example "If i get in trouble in school maybe my mum/ dad will listen to me". What she is doing is called baiting, she is provoking a response usually negative in order to sustain your and others attention. You must also remember that if a child grew up in a dramatic unstable environment that is where they will feel most safe, this is why HPD/BPD will cause chaos out of no where because it is something their not accustomed to. The aggressor or provoker behavior is self learned behavior from childhood and is hard to understand especially if you grew up with loving parents that taught you love, trust and empathy towards others.

I quite agree about the point related to the fact they come from a disfunctional family, and this had profound effects on their psyche. In my case, my ex had their parents divorce by age 7. She described her father as quite neglecting and she was continuing splitting him black and white during our relationship. Even more, in many cases she drank in order to numb herself when she was thinking about her father. About her mother: she told me how, during her childhood, she was quite non affective and strict, always judging her for anything. Up to these days, she has with her mother a very intense love/hate relationship.

So, the general picture is that her "family" was very disfunctional, to say the least, and often filled with drama... .even the relationship with her sister is quite broken.

My stance as a NON goes like this:

If a child was neglected at birth,not put to bed every night, cuddled, and kissed they miss out on the fundamental psychological development that are learned at a very early age, when they miss out on these stages they are left with very faulty brain wiring, they are scared to trust, this is where the HPD really comes to light, they will test us out of fear of being neglected, they provoke us (bait) in order to test our protector behavior, they will also let you know that they are highly desirable and that so many men want them, all they are doing is testing to see how we respond. For example If you get jealous and excessively angry they will see it as you care enough not to stray and that shes your woman. If your response takes the form of an alpha male "Yeah thats great I got loads of girls waiting in line for me to" She will sense abandonment and she will secretly line up plan B,C and D just in case you mess up one more time. Furthermore, it doesnt matter what you do at this point she will cheat, she will do this solely on the basis that she will now be talking to other guys and with Narcissistic supply it gives her a sense of power, this is where you see the the fake image of the HPD "John said I have sexy legs" Im meeting up with James tonight should be fun" She is fulfilling her needs through validation from others, when shes telling you all these things whats really happening is this "I have such a low self esteem and I am worthless BUT John thinks this James thinks that" she is creating a fake image (a mask) basically the HPD will provoke you in order for you to fight for her, she wants you to fight for her because her parents never did.

You know, the possibility that she wanted to test me as her protector came to my mind very often. In many cases I felt like I had to assume the role of father/mother in order to control her crazy behaviours.

For example: in 1.5 years she got drunk with me circa 40-50 times; when she drank, she dysregutaled heavily very often (like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde: basically, incredibly intense raging). In these cases I felt like she wanted me to assume the protector role and assist her like a child, much alike a mother/father or a babysitter.

In many cases she went to say I was very similar to her mother, only because I was basically trying to make her reason about her irresponsible behaviours and had serious problems with alcohol she should tackle.

Unfortunately, I realize only now that she had the uncontrollable impulse to continuosly create drama in her life, since she's incapable of living normally.

As a NON with experience I have learned that HPDs are a lost cause, the more you step up to the plate the more they will push you away, and what you will find is that they over time will turn you into a Narcissist. For example, It doesnt matter how muscular or how much money you think you have, a HPD will make you be little you during the devaluation stages, a HPD can not see who we are as people, our traits and the reason why they loved us we were simply their to give them the attention they never had. So going back to the Narc, my ex would see a guy on steroids in the street and be like "WOW his arms are massive compared to yours" while holding hands, it got to the point with me where I was judging others in order to make myself seem more appealing towards my ex HPD. For example " Why are you talking to that scrawny loser" (if he was shorter and smaller than me) I would put others down who gave her attention because the HPD creates a part of you that is so competitive its unhealthy. Why do we do this? simply because it doesnt matter how much money you have or how alpha male you feel, if they want to flirt with a bigger, more wealthy person in front of you they will, so in order to protect ourselves from this I especially turned into a bit of a Narcissist, and that is where and when the HPD breaks away because it doesnt matter how hurt she makes you, you NEVER show her your upset, because this is power to her, I pretended I didnt care at the end she would tell me about all these guys and I would say yeah I have loads of girls to (i didnt) and as you stop caring you fail her tests, she then senses abandonment and you are left alone while shes straight onto plan B.

About the Narc thing, I experienced the very same thing in the end: if you read my first post in these forums, you'll see that she replaced me in front of my eyes by performing a crazy, incredible, dysregulated triangulation with my replacement (which is, anyway, a remarkable downgrade with respect to me). Even after she replaced me, the few times she contacted me before the N/C she was constantly blaming me about the fact I was not giving her anymore enough attentions, while the new replacement was basically the "perfect white knight".

I'll also add that, even before this last horrible event happened, during January she was triangulating me with another guy (which was a lowlife guy, anyway). In that occasion, she even told me that seeing me and the other guy discussing about our performances regarding a sport we both made in the past, "made her wet" (these are her own words!)... .basically, she was getting excited by putting us against each other. In my humble opinion, that's completely insane stuff... .

About the fact that they leave you when they sense you're not caring anymore (because of their continuous drama, fighting and raging): I can completely relate, she even told me this clearly in the last month of our relationship, so your theory is proved by facts... .


Finally, some questions: do you think that her heavy drinking, somehow, is her performing something like a "deferred processing" of the grief related to the end of our relationship? Or do you think that there could be other, possibly unknown, factors into play?

I noticed another very odd thing as well: her facebook is completely devoid of posts since she started the relationship with the replacement, while she was posting very very often, almost in an enthusiastic way, when she got toghether with me.

I can say that with me, for at least 1 year, the situation seemed very different: she loved me almost unconditionally, writing poems and making drawings for me, I could see that from her eyes... .

Given the news I had, it really seems she's in a situation of profound psycological distress and is not behaving seriously at all with respect to the replacement (and, because of this, I also don't fully understand the fact that she advertises the sex she has with him).

BPD+HPD seems a very rare and complex beast we should try to investigate deeper... .

[jammo1989]

I can link you my background story as well if you wish to read it, I have spoken to actual HPD sufferers on mental health forums, so a lot I speak about is based on their behavior and pathology, HPD, is somewhat seen as the male form of NPD, its set in the middle between the Cluster B traits.  What I have also red and this could go hand in hand with her excessive drinking is that, HPD is learned behavior that the child picks up based on their surroundings, what I can also say is that, I have red that, HPD manifests itself based on the neglection the child on the fathers part, For example "If the mother was abusive and the father either left or didn't protect the daughter it creates HPD.  This is why in my opinion the female grows up hating men, this is where the Narc/HPD manifests itself, they see people as objects not as people, this is why its so easy for them to move on, we were only a source of what is called Narc supply (attention) If we sit back and really think about this it all makes perfect sense.  For example, our parents (healthy upbringing) taught us not to talk to strangers, we knew from a very early age after and during the bonding process that we were loved and could trust our parents, where as with the Cluster B they couldnt even trust and feel the love from the first people they came in contact with.  This leaves a very scared little girl, that doesn't understand simple things like empathy,love, compassion because they missed that part of the psychological process.  This is where the HPD/Narc comes into play, they feel worthless (nobody loves me) so in order to protect their fragile ego they put on a front (wear a mask) they pretend to be strong, independent and accomplished and that is why they lie excessively, its done to make them sound more appealing.  My ex would lie through her teeth after we broke up, telling me she finally had a job, passed her driving ETC.  Where as in reality she is still on the dole, hasnt passed anything and is expecting a child with my replacement.  Furthermore, the reason why thry are so talkative and loud is because they NEED to feel accepted, when they dont get the attention they feel invisible, this then triggers their depression and anxiety because it just opens the trauma that they have never been taught to battle successfully.  The HPD/NPD see men as disposable, they dont love, they want to love BUT... .they dont know how to receive it, this yet again goes back to the lack of love thry received growing up, that is why they overlap relationships, they are constantly looking and hoping for THE ONE.  The reason why they hop is because they dont know how to receive love, so they use men to attain the attention long enough to build up a list of guys (the fan club) there's 2 groups of the fan club, inner (which was us) and the outer (the male mates she flirts with) this is why they seduce its not formed on the basis of love its a defense mechanism to protect them from the fear of abandonment.  For example "If Tom doesnt want me Richard will" when a HPD knows that she has secured a guy from the outer circle she will start to devalue you, provoke you, rage be little and shout at you, and even tell us that so and so thinks their sexy.  They no longer need our attention because it has been secured from elsewhere and this is where the Narc comes out (the real them) she now feels strong and powerful over you because the new man is giving her the attention she now wants (the honeymoon stage) we mean nothing to therm at this point, they see us as a nuisance and may even accuse us of stalking.  The cycle then restarts itself with the new guy, It is also important to state if you break up with them or they break up with you and the new guy plays her, the mask falls off again and we see the BPD side of them crying hysterically, telling us they love us, then telling us they hate us a few hours later, this is the push/pull behavior that destroys us because we never know where we stand, all their basically saying at this point is "I crave attention. please tell me you love me please! then when she gets attention from elsewhere "I hate you, leave me alone, i never want to speak to you again" This is her inner child talking as if shes re living the trauma all over again, she is talking to you as if you were the father that never loved or protected her, and thats why the anxiety and depression builds, they were never taught how to address situations in a mature way the only thing they know what to do is RUN, and that is why its almost 2nd nature for the HPD to block us and cut us out of our lives because, now in her head shes thinking "All men are the same" she thinks because her dad didn't protect her that every guy is the same, I hope Ive helped you understand the HP disorder a bit more.

Fell free to ask me any questions relating to HPD and I will gladly answer


Take care


Jammo        

[rotiroti]

I can link you my background story as well if you wish to read it, I have spoken to actual HPD sufferers on mental health forums, so a lot I speak about is based on their behavior and pathology, HPD, is somewhat seen as the male form of NPD, its set in the middle between the Cluster B traits.  What I have also red and this could go hand in hand with her excessive drinking is that, HPD is learned behavior that the child picks up based on their surroundings, what I can also say is that, I have red that, HPD manifests itself based on the neglection the child on the fathers part, For example "If the mother was abusive and the father either left or didn't protect the daughter it creates HPD.  This is why in my opinion the female grows up hating men, this is where the Narc/HPD manifests itself, they see people as objects not as people, this is why its so easy for them to move on, we were only a source of what is called Narc supply (attention) If we sit back and really think about this it all makes perfect sense.  For example, our parents (healthy upbringing) taught us not to talk to strangers, we knew from a very early age after and during the bonding process that we were loved and could trust our parents, where as with the Cluster B they couldnt even trust and feel the love from the first people they came in contact with.  This leaves a very scared little girl, that doesn't understand simple things like empathy,love, compassion because they missed that part of the psychological process.  This is where the HPD/Narc comes into play, they feel worthless (nobody loves me) so in order to protect their fragile ego they put on a front (wear a mask) they pretend to be strong, independent and accomplished and that is why they lie excessively, its done to make them sound more appealing.  My ex would lie through her teeth after we broke up, telling me she finally had a job, passed her driving ETC.  Where as in reality she is still on the dole, hasnt passed anything and is expecting a child with my replacement.  Furthermore, the reason why thry are so talkative and loud is because they NEED to feel accepted, when they dont get the attention they feel invisible, this then triggers their depression and anxiety because it just opens the trauma that they have never been taught to battle successfully.  The HPD/NPD see men as disposable, they dont love, they want to love BUT... .they dont know how to receive it, this yet again goes back to the lack of love thry received growing up, that is why they overlap relationships, they are constantly looking and hoping for THE ONE.  The reason why they hop is because they dont know how to receive love, so they use men to attain the attention long enough to build up a list of guys (the fan club) there's 2 groups of the fan club, inner (which was us) and the outer (the male mates she flirts with) this is why they seduce its not formed on the basis of love its a defense mechanism to protect them from the fear of abandonment.  For example "If Tom doesnt want me Richard will" when a HPD knows that she has secured a guy from the outer circle she will start to devalue you, provoke you, rage be little and shout at you, and even tell us that so and so thinks their sexy.  They no longer need our attention because it has been secured from elsewhere and this is where the Narc comes out (the real them) she now feels strong and powerful over you because the new man is giving her the attention she now wants (the honeymoon stage) we mean nothing to therm at this point, they see us as a nuisance and may even accuse us of stalking.  The cycle then restarts itself with the new guy, It is also important to state if you break up with them or they break up with you and the new guy plays her, the mask falls off again and we see the BPD side of them crying hysterically, telling us they love us, then telling us they hate us a few hours later, this is the push/pull behavior that destroys us because we never know where we stand, all their basically saying at this point is "I crave attention. please tell me you love me please! then when she gets attention from elsewhere "I hate you, leave me alone, i never want to speak to you again" This is her inner child talking as if shes re living the trauma all over again, she is talking to you as if you were the father that never loved or protected her, and thats why the anxiety and depression builds, they were never taught how to address situations in a mature way the only thing they know what to do is RUN, and that is why its almost 2nd nature for the HPD to block us and cut us out of our lives because, now in her head shes thinking "All men are the same" she thinks because her dad didn't protect her that every guy is the same, I hope Ive helped you understand the HP disorder a bit more.

Fell free to ask me any questions relating to HPD and I will gladly answer


Take care


Jammo        

Wow Jammo thank you for your honest experience and insight. The more i think about my now-ex (NC of 2 days), the more i think she had HPD features. Dressed very provocatively and constant baiting. Here's  (sorry it's on another forum, but didnt want o hijack this thread)

How did you ever recover? I just couldn't take it anymore and knew something had to change. I packed my things and have 2 days ago and... i'm really lost for words. All the gaslighting has me second guessing my decision

[LimboFL]

Excellent posts Jammo. Everything you wrote spoke of my exBPDgf (6 months NC) Horribly sad and such a waste, because despite everything, if we are with our partners long enough, we do get to see the real, scared and genuinely wishing to be kind persons that live beneath all of that pain. I certainly was not drawn in by the idealization, but rather those moments when the true self would be so tired of keeping up the mask that she would just be. It was fleeting.

My ex couldn't even sit down for a movie. The silence and comfort of cuddling was too much for her, even for that short period. We would cuddle on the couch and within 20 minutes she would be up and having to move around. I would get insulted and frustrated until I realized that it was her anxiety. She simply didn't know how to just rest and let go.

I, unfortunately, experienced all of the rest too. Glad I am out! I love her still and miss her terribly at times but I don't miss all of the chaos and orbiters etc. What a horrible way to test if someone loves you.

[rotiroti]

Excellent posts Jammo. Everything you wrote spoke of my exBPDgf (6 months NC) Horribly sad and such a waste, because despite everything, if we are with our partners long enough, we do get to see the real, scared and genuinely wishing to be kind persons that live beneath all of that pain. I certainly was not drawn in by the idealization, but rather those moments when the true self would be so tired of keeping up the mask that she would just be. It was fleeting.

My ex couldn't even sit down for a movie. The silence and comfort of cuddling was too much for her, even for that short period. We would cuddle on the couch and within 20 minutes she would be up and having to move around. I would get insulted and frustrated until I realized that it was her anxiety. She simply didn't know how to just rest and let go.

I, unfortunately, experienced all of the rest too. Glad I am out! I love her still and miss her terribly at times but I don't miss all of the chaos and orbiters etc. What a horrible way to test if someone loves you.

Glad you made it out!  I was in a similiar boat where lack of stimulation meant that I wasn't trying... or it would drive her to nag me. Ugh... It's easy to miss the good times, but it really helps me to have a writing of all the terrible things... and to see how they are enormous compared to the 'good' keeps me well grounded.

What does it mean by orbiters? Do you have advice on n/c? It's been only 2 days for me... i did the usual blocking her number and such

[jammo1989]

I can link you my background story as well if you wish to read it, I have spoken to actual HPD sufferers on mental health forums, so a lot I speak about is based on their behavior and pathology, HPD, is somewhat seen as the male form of NPD, its set in the middle between the Cluster B traits.  What I have also red and this could go hand in hand with her excessive drinking is that, HPD is learned behavior that the child picks up based on their surroundings, what I can also say is that, I have red that, HPD manifests itself based on the neglection the child on the fathers part, For example "If the mother was abusive and the father either left or didn't protect the daughter it creates HPD.  This is why in my opinion the female grows up hating men, this is where the Narc/HPD manifests itself, they see people as objects not as people, this is why its so easy for them to move on, we were only a source of what is called Narc supply (attention) If we sit back and really think about this it all makes perfect sense.  For example, our parents (healthy upbringing) taught us not to talk to strangers, we knew from a very early age after and during the bonding process that we were loved and could trust our parents, where as with the Cluster B they couldnt even trust and feel the love from the first people they came in contact with.  This leaves a very scared little girl, that doesn't understand simple things like empathy,love, compassion because they missed that part of the psychological process.  This is where the HPD/Narc comes into play, they feel worthless (nobody loves me) so in order to protect their fragile ego they put on a front (wear a mask) they pretend to be strong, independent and accomplished and that is why they lie excessively, its done to make them sound more appealing.  My ex would lie through her teeth after we broke up, telling me she finally had a job, passed her driving ETC.  Where as in reality she is still on the dole, hasnt passed anything and is expecting a child with my replacement.  Furthermore, the reason why thry are so talkative and loud is because they NEED to feel accepted, when they dont get the attention they feel invisible, this then triggers their depression and anxiety because it just opens the trauma that they have never been taught to battle successfully.  The HPD/NPD see men as disposable, they dont love, they want to love BUT... .they dont know how to receive it, this yet again goes back to the lack of love thry received growing up, that is why they overlap relationships, they are constantly looking and hoping for THE ONE.  The reason why they hop is because they dont know how to receive love, so they use men to attain the attention long enough to build up a list of guys (the fan club) there's 2 groups of the fan club, inner (which was us) and the outer (the male mates she flirts with) this is why they seduce its not formed on the basis of love its a defense mechanism to protect them from the fear of abandonment.  For example "If Tom doesnt want me Richard will" when a HPD knows that she has secured a guy from the outer circle she will start to devalue you, provoke you, rage be little and shout at you, and even tell us that so and so thinks their sexy.  They no longer need our attention because it has been secured from elsewhere and this is where the Narc comes out (the real them) she now feels strong and powerful over you because the new man is giving her the attention she now wants (the honeymoon stage) we mean nothing to therm at this point, they see us as a nuisance and may even accuse us of stalking.  The cycle then restarts itself with the new guy, It is also important to state if you break up with them or they break up with you and the new guy plays her, the mask falls off again and we see the BPD side of them crying hysterically, telling us they love us, then telling us they hate us a few hours later, this is the push/pull behavior that destroys us because we never know where we stand, all their basically saying at this point is "I crave attention. please tell me you love me please! then when she gets attention from elsewhere "I hate you, leave me alone, i never want to speak to you again" This is her inner child talking as if shes re living the trauma all over again, she is talking to you as if you were the father that never loved or protected her, and thats why the anxiety and depression builds, they were never taught how to address situations in a mature way the only thing they know what to do is RUN, and that is why its almost 2nd nature for the HPD to block us and cut us out of our lives because, now in her head shes thinking "All men are the same" she thinks because her dad didn't protect her that every guy is the same, I hope Ive helped you understand the HP disorder a bit more.

Fell free to ask me any questions relating to HPD and I will gladly answer


Take care


Jammo        

Wow Jammo thank you for your honest experience and insight. The more i think about my now-ex (NC of 2 days), the more i think she had HPD features. Dressed very provocatively and constant baiting. Here's www.reddit.com/r/BPDlovedones/comments/3a11lc/from_engaged_to_nc_in_7_days_im_at_my_wits_end/ (sorry it's on another forum, but didnt want o hijack this thread)

How did you ever recover? I just couldn't take it anymore and knew something had to change. I packed my things and have 2 days ago and... i'm really lost for words. All the gaslighting has me second guessing my decision

Im really glad I could help and create a better understanding of how things were behind the mask they hid behind.  I have red your story before, did you ever post on the Phych forums? to answer your question How did  recover?  this is what worked for me:

Learn and educate yourself about the disorder, you don't do this to create an understanding on your behalf and shower them with empathy, this is for your own protection for future reference when faced with these kinds of woman again.  There is a massive difference between the partner of a BPD and a HPD/NPD, the partner of the BPD sees the scared little girl who cries for help, this in turn creates and brings our own co- dependency issues to the surface.  The HPD/NPD is also the scared little girl, but due to their own self taught defense mechanisms they are a lot more vicious.  For example, the BPD might run away from out of no where leaving the partner, devastated, confused and distraught, they solely do this due to emotional de-regulation and fear of abandonment.  Where as, the HPD/NPD will leave the partner distraught by putting their partner down in order to sustain their sense of control and power, they will make it known that other guys are all over her and that your lucky to have her because she could drop you in a second.  Furthermore, they will reverse every compliment from the honey moon period.  For example with me it was "Oh my god, I love your arms their massive" to random baiting " He has broader shoulders than you" while squeezing my hand really tight when saying it as if it turned her on.  The HPD/NPD needs to make sure they destroy your ego before they leave, this is because she can no longer control you, so her last resort is to break you down so that she feels superior to you.  :)o you want to know the gods honest truth, and you can read actual posts from HPD sufferers if you think im just saying this to make you happy:

The reason why the HPD/NPD discarded you so viciously and hates you is because the root of their disorder is control, "if I cant control him he might abandon me so i must sustain attention from him until I have lined back up guys".  You just like I was to strong for them, they cant sustain their false Narcissistic image with a guy that shows confidence and status.  Towards the end of the devaluation stage my ex said to me "I feel like a piece of s... .t next to you" she knew deep down that her fake image of wanting to feel and look superior to me didn't work anymore and that the real her soon shed its skin.  You will recover from this because YOU were better than her and deep down she cant have that, she needs to be the one in control, when we create boundaries they panic "Why wont he listen to me" Remember that child I was telling you about, shes now re living her past "Why wont my parents listen to me?" Youve now starved her of attention and she hates you for making her feel like this, she resents you because you have now triggered her trauma.  I cant preach this to you enough, it was never about love it was about attention, at the time YOU were the one giving her the most attention, this then created and shielded her own demons, you were her savior, you saved her from that past she cant cope with.  To finish this, I would also like to back up my understanding about the losing control thing.  Why do you think that so many people say wow shes downgraded, she had everything, money, a car, holidays and now shes with that loser?  Ill answer it for you, it was never about YOU and what she got from you it was all about the attention that was focused solely on her.  The reason why she has loads of back up guys is because she needs a constant stream of attention that is why thry call it the fan club.  Want to know how the fan club works?  The HPD will have admirers, men she would never date but desires their attention, you know the door mats that comment on their statuses and Facebook pictures saying "Wow your so beautiful" she will flirt back with these guys (lead them on) the guy then tries harder (wanting sex) and she shoots them down.  The reason she does this is because when a guy tries harder they give her more attention.  Then when a certain guy joins the fan club in this case us,  she singles us out sweeps all the other guys under the carpet until you mess up in the relationship.  For example, she could talk to a guy for 6 months, as soon as shes in a relationship that guy is forgotten about untill needed "I have enough attention right now" (The honey moon period)  We were seen as objects not human beings with certain traits that set us apart from others, I mean how could we be? her dad abandoned her, so men are all the same right?

I hope this helps man                              

[jammo1989]

Excellent posts Jammo. Everything you wrote spoke of my exBPDgf (6 months NC) Horribly sad and such a waste, because despite everything, if we are with our partners long enough, we do get to see the real, scared and genuinely wishing to be kind persons that live beneath all of that pain. I certainly was not drawn in by the idealization, but rather those moments when the true self would be so tired of keeping up the mask that she would just be. It was fleeting.

My ex couldn't even sit down for a movie. The silence and comfort of cuddling was too much for her, even for that short period. We would cuddle on the couch and within 20 minutes she would be up and having to move around. I would get insulted and frustrated until I realized that it was her anxiety. She simply didn't know how to just rest and let go.

I, unfortunately, experienced all of the rest too. Glad I am out! I love her still and miss her terribly at times but I don't miss all of the chaos and orbiters etc. What a horrible way to test if someone loves you.

Hey Limbo im glad I could help you, always good to know that I can help towards others healing, at the end of the day, whether your ex was BPD,HPD/NPD or even ASPD, the main thing to think about and remember was that we cant change them, that is them and this is us, i can almost guarantee that  even if you had a mansion and drove a £300,000 car their attitude would be the same with BPD/HPD its not about the money its about protecting themselves thus why they are so selfish, they are to wrapped up in their own anxiety and past to think about others feelings, I mean why should they, their parents didnt think about their feelings, so why should they think about ours?       

[Fr4nz]

Jammo,

I have to disagree about your assumption that HPDs are more similar to NPDs than to BPDs.

Frankly, I think that HPDs are, on the opposite, VERY similar to BPDs, since from my experience - and also from what I read in psychforums - they have similar dynamics and can absolutely feel empathy and love (even if their very own flavour of love... .). It is not casual if, in many cases, HPDs turn out to be comorbid BPDs (or the opposite).

What really distinguishes HPDs and BPDs is, in my opinion, that the formers really, REALLY crave for attention and they achieve this by using, on a regular basis, very charming and sexy behaviours in order to be validated and stop their self-loathing.

[jammo1989]

Jammo,

I have to disagree about your assumption that HPDs are more similar to NPDs than to BPDs.

Frankly, I think that HPDs are, on the opposite, VERY similar to BPDs, since from my experience - and also from what I read in psychforums - they have similar dynamics and can absolutely feel empathy and love (even if their very own flavour of love... .). It is not casual if, in many cases, HPDs turn out to be comorbid BPDs (or the opposite).

What really distinguishes HPDs and BPDs is, in my opinion, that the formers really, REALLY crave for attention and they achieve this by using, on a regular basis, very charming and sexy behaviours in order to be validated and stop their self-loathing.

yeah, I see where your coming from but, BPDs tend to act inwards (self harm, suicidal tenancies) Where as the HPD and NPD act outwards, they put on a strong front to cover up their own weaknesses, they manipulate and want others to see them as strong characters (the life of the party) The HPD may well show signs of BPD, but only when supply for attention is low, this is when we see the inner child (the real them) Yeah I agree that the BPD and HPD are similar in the sense that, they lack a sense of self, so they mirror us and copy our attributes in order to create our ideal partner (emotional vampires). The way i see it is this:

The HPD has the power to claim the mans attention, where as the BPD has the power to claim the mans heart, The HPD in my eyes is the scared little girl but its hidden behind Narc traits, the BPD is seen as the helpless victim, thus creates a co dependency within the partner and why it is seen as harder to leave the BPD because we see the hurt child exposed.  Where as the HPD trys to sustain a strong mask of Independence and she does that through gaining the attention of other preferably men in a seductive manner.          

[rotiroti]

Thank you so much jammo1989... I have actually never posted my story before, and i think that goes to prove how these Cluster B stories are all just retelling of the same old story. While I feel guilty about making her feel abandoned (I drove away and NC for 2 days now), i know that I'm just a page in a chapter... of a long book.

I'm so glad to have found this forum... knowledge really is power in this case. I know that there's no need to be judgemental or to send her how i feel in this fallout.

edit: and man you hit the lining up partners right on the head! she was proud to have her phone ring like crazy in front of me and hide the screen... or to introduce me to her 'guy friends' out at parties. So embarassing!

[LimboFL]

Thanks rotiroti. You are very freshly out, so stay strong. It is going to be a very hard ride. I am just feeling out now, lot's of pain.

Orbiters is a non technical term for the flies that kept buzzing around my (our) ex's during the relationship. In my case, men from her past, some from her present, whom she clearly kept "teasing" for attention and to fill her need to be chased. It was a constant in our relationship. As Jammo pointed out below, I don't believe my ex actually took things any further, until the end. She didn't need to, for her it was about simply the attention.

Almost all BPD's and HPD's (I am just starting to pay more attention to HPD, because it is very likely mine was that too. It is a horrible soup of all of the disorders that end up really playing out), have orbiters, male and female. Just think of the term "to orbit".

Stay strong my friend. Stay NC and stay focused on the negatives. It's very hard to do. We forget how poorly they sometimes treated us and Jammo's rolling out of HPD is sounding so true to my case but while I am not studied on it, I kind of go with Fr4nz's expansion on the subject. My ex sounds very HPD but she was also very empathetic.

It's all such a mind screw.

[rotiroti]

Thanks rotiroti. You are very freshly out, so stay strong. It is going to be a very hard ride. I am just feeling out now, lot's of pain.

Orbiters is a non technical term for the flies that kept buzzing around my (our) ex's during the relationship. In my case, men from her past, some from her present, whom she clearly kept "teasing" for attention and to fill her need to be chased. It was a constant in our relationship. As Jammo pointed out below, I don't believe my ex actually took things any further, until the end. She didn't need to, for her it was about simply the attention.

Almost all BPD's and HPD's (I am just starting to pay more attention to HPD, because it is very likely mine was that too. It is a horrible soup of all of the disorders that end up really playing out), have orbiters, male and female. Just think of the term "to orbit".

Stay strong my friend. Stay NC and stay focused on the negatives. It's very hard to do. We forget how poorly they sometimes treated us and Jammo's rolling out of HPD is sounding so true to my case but while I am not studied on it, I kind of go with Fr4nz's expansion on the subject. My ex sounds very HPD but she was also very empathetic.

It's all such a mind screw.

LimboFL,

thank you for your kind words. I am just so glad to have found this support and it's so empowering to see that I'm not alone in this. As I'm reading deeper into the disease, I'm getting the closure that I probably would've never recevied from her... I know it's not complete closure, but I'm starting to at least understand the pain... I know i shouldn't absorb any of the negative things she said... .seriously, as soon as she split, she would not stop with the character assassination. I do feel guilty about "abandoning" her at the first fight... i believe everyone should strive for the best mental health, but no one should have to sacrifice themselves for the betterment of another.

Ah orbiters... makes sense. Yes she had plenty and would always reassure me only one of them was an ex and that the rest were "just friends"

[jammo1989]

Thanks rotiroti. You are very freshly out, so stay strong. It is going to be a very hard ride. I am just feeling out now, lot's of pain.

Orbiters is a non technical term for the flies that kept buzzing around my (our) ex's during the relationship. In my case, men from her past, some from her present, whom she clearly kept "teasing" for attention and to fill her need to be chased. It was a constant in our relationship. As Jammo pointed out below, I don't believe my ex actually took things any further, until the end. She didn't need to, for her it was about simply the attention.

Almost all BPD's and HPD's (I am just starting to pay more attention to HPD, because it is very likely mine was that too. It is a horrible soup of all of the disorders that end up really playing out), have orbiters, male and female. Just think of the term "to orbit".

Stay strong my friend. Stay NC and stay focused on the negatives. It's very hard to do. We forget how poorly they sometimes treated us and Jammo's rolling out of HPD is sounding so true to my case but while I am not studied on it, I kind of go with Fr4nz's expansion on the subject. My ex sounds very HPD but she was also very empathetic.

It's all such a mind screw.

Hpds only shows empathy when they need something or have something to gain.  For example my ex started crying hysterically over Skype asking for a break, then every so often she would start laughing and go back to crying, they will cry for our attention just like a baby crys for its parents.  For example if the baby is hungry or needs a nappy changed it crys, when it doesn't need anything its happy.  I can use examples based on my experience, my ex used to tell me If i didn't have kids with my ex he wouldn't be in my life at all, only if he was on his death bed would I talk to him" Then a few hours later calls up her ex husband "H... .needs new clothes (3 year old) his reply I gave you £300 this month my ex- "What so you want our daughter to do without?" Its based on a need crocodile tears are not legitimate they are used to not only play the victim but a way of keeping the focus on them.  If you ex was truly HPD what did she show empathy towards? Yes this is solely based on my experience and I agree some can show empathy (love animals etc) but its also used as a means of manipulation.

Do you know how the HPD keeps guys at arms length, and why she accuses others as stalkers? Well I spoke to a guy who had a HPD friend on other forums once and this is how she controlled her fan club.

She would text a few guys (who she knew fancied her) and asked for simple favors, she would then soak up the attention she craved and didn't reply to their responses, then when she was out with her girl mates she would get these texts and say "I have so many stalkers I swear" she left the guys at arms length wanting them to chase even though she was the one who initiated the contact, she wanted to make her self look irresistible and make her girl mates jealous with the male attention, when in reality they werent stalking or chasing, they were merely responding to her so called favor.            

[jammo1989]

Thank you so much jammo1989... I have actually never posted my story before, and i think that goes to prove how these Cluster B stories are all just retelling of the same old story. While I feel guilty about making her feel abandoned (I drove away and NC for 2 days now), i know that I'm just a page in a chapter... of a long book.

I'm so glad to have found this forum... knowledge really is power in this case. I know that there's no need to be judgemental or to send her how i feel in this fallout.

edit: and man you hit the lining up partners right on the head! she was proud to have her phone ring like crazy in front of me and hide the screen... or to introduce me to her 'guy friends' out at parties. So embarassing!

Glad I could help, like I said im 10 months NC right now and trust me when your out of the fog you will recall so many what the heck situations, HPDs are not for NONs like ourselves, even if we take away the label of cluster B compare your core values to hers, she was never taught logic and reasoning, Cluster Bs belong with cluster Bs, we sadly are the flies that get caught up in that spiders web, but unlike Cluster Bs we learn and we grow as humans, where as they jump straight into new relationships only to replay the same scenario over and over, and what is the definition of insanity?

":)oing exactly the same thing over and over again expecting different results"  

[Fr4nz]

Jammo,

I have to disagree about your assumption that HPDs are more similar to NPDs than to BPDs.

Frankly, I think that HPDs are, on the opposite, VERY similar to BPDs, since from my experience - and also from what I read in psychforums - they have similar dynamics and can absolutely feel empathy and love (even if their very own flavour of love... .). It is not casual if, in many cases, HPDs turn out to be comorbid BPDs (or the opposite).

What really distinguishes HPDs and BPDs is, in my opinion, that the formers really, REALLY crave for attention and they achieve this by using, on a regular basis, very charming and sexy behaviours in order to be validated and stop their self-loathing.

yeah, I see where your coming from but, BPDs tend to act inwards (self harm, suicidal tenancies) Where as the HPD and NPD act outwards, they put on a strong front to cover up their own weaknesses, they manipulate and want others to see them as strong characters (the life of the party) The HPD may well show signs of BPD, but only when supply for attention is low, this is when we see the inner child (the real them) Yeah I agree that the BPD and HPD are similar in the sense that, they lack a sense of self, so they mirror us and copy our attributes in order to create our ideal partner (emotional vampires). The way i see it is this:

The HPD has the power to claim the mans attention, where as the BPD has the power to claim the mans heart, The HPD in my eyes is the scared little girl but its hidden behind Narc traits, the BPD is seen as the helpless victim, thus creates a co dependency within the partner and why it is seen as harder to leave the BPD because we see the hurt child exposed.  Where as the HPD trys to sustain a strong mask of Independence and she does that through gaining the attention of other preferably men in a seductive manner.          

Then I have to conclude that my ex was both HPD AND BPD, because she actually fits both scenarios!

To be more precise, I think that my ex wanted to claim her men's hearth BUT, at the same time, I recognize that she craved for men's attention as well (I'd say 60% vs 40% in favour of the former, so more BPD in this sense BUT... .maybe she just "limited" her HPD when she was with me... .who knows!). Anyway, I'm quite sure that she wanted to love and being loved, and when she was seriously committed she was fully loving (anyway, the "form" of love they feel).

Also: I recognize that she was constantly playing the "strong" girl (with the exception of me and the people who were really close to her at that moment... .we could really see her problems and pian) and acted outwards - so, you'd say, this is more HPD behaviour... .BUT... .it is well known that there are "acting out" BPDs as well. Where my ex fits more the HPD side is that she was very "social", she was the "center of the party", she was very charming and so on (even though, in the end, she had ZERO REAL longlasting friendships... .and, anyway, all friendships were mostly with men).

Anyway, in general - i.e., after reading lots of stories - I'd say that HPD usually goes with BPD than with NPD, even if there are many BPDs which have strong NPD traits.


PS: One remarkable thing that I was thinking now... .just after replacing me, I noted that she was playing the "strong" girl with me; so, with people having HPD this could be a clear sign that you're placed out of the closed circle of people which are emotionally "close" to her... .maybe, once you're outside that circle, you can really feel the "strong girl" mask the HPD puts on in order to protect him/her-self.

[Fr4nz]

Hpds only shows empathy when they need something or have something to gain.  [... .]  If you ex was truly HPD what did she show empathy towards? Yes this is solely based on my experience and I agree some can show empathy (love animals etc) but its also used as a means of manipulation.           

Jammo, IMHO saying that "HPDs shows empathy only when they can benefit from it" is erroneus... .

Let me explain better: indeed, there are HPDs that do not feel empathy (maybe they are comorbid NPDs/ASPD) BUT, in general... .from my experience - and from what I read in psychforums from HPDs, they can really feel empathy and shame when they think about the pain they inflicted to their exes. Just as in the BPD case, much of them dysregulate (by means of splitting) in order to prevent them to feel shame... .a shame that, in many cases, re-emerges later on.

Just think about what I wrote about my ex in the first post: for at least TWO months she was constantly showing up at work DRUNK (or almost drunk), and dysregulated.

Now, do you think that a person who's happy about her new boy and job get drunk in the morning so often and flirt with all the men around? To me, it's clear that she's heavily suffering... .maybe, just maybe, she was(is) grieving our relationship; she also knows that, because of her, I ended in T; so, she perfectly knows she inflicted an enormous amount of pain on me... .

[jammo1989]

Hpds only shows empathy when they need something or have something to gain.  [... .]  If you ex was truly HPD what did she show empathy towards? Yes this is solely based on my experience and I agree some can show empathy (love animals etc) but its also used as a means of manipulation.            

Jammo, IMHO saying that "HPDs shows empathy only when they can benefit from it" is erroneus... .

Let me explain better: indeed, there are HPDs that do not feel empathy (maybe they are comorbid NPDs/ASPD) BUT, in general... .from my experience - and from what I read in psychforums from HPDs, they can really feel empathy and shame when they think about the pain they inflicted to their exes. Just as in the BPD case, much of them dysregulate (by means of splitting) in order to prevent them to feel shame... .a shame that, in many cases, re-emerges later on.

Just think about what I wrote about my ex in the first post: for at least TWO months she was constantly showing up at work DRUNK (or almost drunk), and dysregulated.

Now, do you think that a person who's happy about her new boy and job get drunk in the morning so often and flirt with all the men around? To me, it's clear that she's heavily suffering... .maybe, just maybe, she was(is) grieving our relationship; she also knows that, because of her, I ended in T; so, she perfectly knows she inflicted an enormous amount of pain on me... .

Remember we are both going on what we as individuals experienced, I see your point as well, there a many different sub types to HPD and BPD, at the end of the day its just one big maze, and as long as we can protect our own mental health and sustain our core morals as individuals thats all that matters, could you read my back story and give your opinion on such behavior please?    

[Fr4nz]

Hpds only shows empathy when they need something or have something to gain.  [... .]  If you ex was truly HPD what did she show empathy towards? Yes this is solely based on my experience and I agree some can show empathy (love animals etc) but its also used as a means of manipulation.            

Jammo, IMHO saying that "HPDs shows empathy only when they can benefit from it" is erroneus... .

Let me explain better: indeed, there are HPDs that do not feel empathy (maybe they are comorbid NPDs/ASPD) BUT, in general... .from my experience - and from what I read in psychforums from HPDs, they can really feel empathy and shame when they think about the pain they inflicted to their exes. Just as in the BPD case, much of them dysregulate (by means of splitting) in order to prevent them to feel shame... .a shame that, in many cases, re-emerges later on.

Just think about what I wrote about my ex in the first post: for at least TWO months she was constantly showing up at work DRUNK (or almost drunk), and dysregulated.

Now, do you think that a person who's happy about her new boy and job get drunk in the morning so often and flirt with all the men around? To me, it's clear that she's heavily suffering... .maybe, just maybe, she was(is) grieving our relationship; she also knows that, because of her, I ended in T; so, she perfectly knows she inflicted an enormous amount of pain on me... .

Remember we are both going on what we as individuals experienced, I see your point as well, there a many different sub types to HPD and BPD, at the end of the day its just one big maze, and as long as we can protect our own mental health and sustain our core morals as individuals thats all that matters, could you read my back story and give your opinion on such behavior please?    

Sure! Is this the related post?

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=233252.msg12493649#msg12493649

One question, just out of curiosity: did your ex break N/C or used subtle ways to communicate with you?

[jammo1989]

Hpds only shows empathy when they need something or have something to gain.  [... .]  If you ex was truly HPD what did she show empathy towards? Yes this is solely based on my experience and I agree some can show empathy (love animals etc) but its also used as a means of manipulation.            

Jammo, IMHO saying that "HPDs shows empathy only when they can benefit from it" is erroneus... .

Let me explain better: indeed, there are HPDs that do not feel empathy (maybe they are comorbid NPDs/ASPD) BUT, in general... .from my experience - and from what I read in psychforums from HPDs, they can really feel empathy and shame when they think about the pain they inflicted to their exes. Just as in the BPD case, much of them dysregulate (by means of splitting) in order to prevent them to feel shame... .a shame that, in many cases, re-emerges later on.

Just think about what I wrote about my ex in the first post: for at least TWO months she was constantly showing up at work DRUNK (or almost drunk), and dysregulated.

Now, do you think that a person who's happy about her new boy and job get drunk in the morning so often and flirt with all the men around? To me, it's clear that she's heavily suffering... .maybe, just maybe, she was(is) grieving our relationship; she also knows that, because of her, I ended in T; so, she perfectly knows she inflicted an enormous amount of pain on me... .

Remember we are both going on what we as individuals experienced, I see your point as well, there a many different sub types to HPD and BPD, at the end of the day its just one big maze, and as long as we can protect our own mental health and sustain our core morals as individuals thats all that matters, could you read my back story and give your opinion on such behavior please?    

Sure! Is this the related post?

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=233252.msg12493649#msg12493649

One question, just out of curiosity: did your ex break N/C or used subtle ways to communicate with you?

Yeah thats one of the related posts man, ill copy and paste it as a new reply if thats ok? to answer your question, you will read that she blocked me, and got in a relationship 2 days after the push/pull with me, 5 months went by, and i randomly got a face time call off her, i didn't pick up and it set my anxiety through the roof, i emailed her 2 weeks later saying:

ME- You face timed me the other day, whats up?

Her- No I didn't, I've not used FT for months. Everything is fine thanks, you okay?

ME- Oh ok, must have been one of the lil rascals on your phone then, yeah im good thanks.

(I print screened the missed call and sent it in an email)

Her- Oh right, sorry about that. Oh good (thumbs up)

the fact that she asked if I was ok, makes me think she wanted to start a conversation, but i cut it off by sending her a print screen of the call she denied making, and it wasnt accidental because she has an iphone, you cant pocket call when your phones in your pocket because it screen locks.  It was extremely daunting to me, i will post my back story as well, would love your opinion and maybe you can reflect it with your own experience.

Hi guys, I have recently come out of a 2 year relationship with a girl who has has one of the most horrific up bringing, she was strangled by her own mother, was put into foster care and was dumped on someone's door step the day she was born. Her dad abandoned her and her mother is now a heroin addict. Her mother has Bi Polar and my ex carry's all the traits of HPD . I have educated myself on this subject to help me heal, i understand the devalue process and the push/pull behaviour. What i am struggling with is that, she broke up with me, and for about 2 weeks i was getting the the i love you, hate you treatment. She demanded I met her to get my stuff back, so i could see the pain I had apparently caused. She was saying things like you look hot, if i wasnt on my period id so ___ you right now. (sorry guys) She gave me a hickey, told me how much she loved me and wouldn't stop kissing me. I then told her I had things to do back at home and would text her. She then burst into tears and was like leave me alone i need my space. She then kissed me and text me an hour later saying thank you for an amazing day Jammo I love you. During this period she would push/pull ignore my texts, then ring me 2/3 days later saying she missed me. A week went by and these mind games destroyed me, she kept liking this guys pictures on FB, so i called her up and said im done i cant play these games with you any more. She then said ok Jammo, then told me that her 3 year old daughter was asking for me and that she misses me. I replied by saying tell her i miss her to. Her 6 year old son was then asking her whos on the phone mummy? and she replied by saying Jammo darling, he then said but Jammo makes you cry, she then replied saying you know mummy loves Jammo, my house my rules. We then had a little convo about the kids and then she said ok i gtg now cooking the kids tea. The very next day, I go on FB and the guy i went mad at her for liking his pictures slept at her house the next night, then 2 days later was in a relationship with him. I understand abandonment fears are worse than death itself, but why did she move on so fast? and why did she act so normal and loving towards me? she wasnt distant or cold.

2 weeks of NC then went by and she realised she had more of my stuff to give me, so we set a destination to meet, I met up with her and she was saying things like hey Jammo hows your family? hope your all doing ok. She then said btw (her) daughter was asking for you the other day and i told her Jammo is naughty. She then said that her and the kids were looking at old pictures of me and her in her photo album (She has a bf) she then went onto say, I still go on your FB, I know what your up to (Even though shes blocked me on it) she then went from being lovely to being horrible saying things like, now you have your stuff back you have no reason to ever contact me again, that means, by text, phone, fb and email. She said all this with a massive grin on her face, throughout the whole ordeal i smiled at her and never lost eye contact, she would tell i wasnt being affected. The last thing she said was, im bored of talking to you now im hungry, I then laughed and said ok bye now go get some food and walked off. She has blocked me from all forms of communication apart from Gmail. Why has she done this? as im the only ex shes ever blocked out of her life. I havent tried contacting her, but i feel so confused,could you guys please help me understand what went on?

she obsessively begged me for a 3rd child and I said now is not the right time, and because of this she made up she was pregnant, then told me i killed our baby because I made her have an abortion (Which was all a lie) there was no baby because she was on the coil so im guessing the fake abortion was a fake reason or excuse to discard me. She cried day and night obsessing over having a baby with me, 3 months after telling me how much she wants OUR baby shes now pregnant with my replacement.

I have 4 months NC (due to being blocked) but 10 days ago my number was unblocked and she attempted to call me on Face time which I did not reply to, now my numbers been instantly blocked again why? what is going on in her head?

P.s she was extremely seductive from the start would send me the dirtiest of pictures and videos, always, manipulation throughout, would do anything for attention, constant lies of exaggeration

 

P.S 2 This doesnt even scratch the surface into her seductive behavior, when she was 16 she told me about a girl orgy she had with friends, and that she dreamed of being a porn star around the age of 18, would also talk openly about our sex life in front of me to her friends in detail, made me pay for everything, shes still married and is 25 with 3 kids and has never worked before, the list is endless!   

[LimboFL]

echo. Your welcome! and yes having this group is the only thing that has kept me sane through all of this. I keep coming back simply because I read things regularly that are aha moments, like jammo's expansion on HPD's. I have seen the term bandied about but never really looked into and there is so much that sounds like my ex.

However, and this is a big one, I believe that we all have to be careful to appreciate how much all of these PD's bleed into each other. My ex had so many of the HPD traits, over powering, control freak, in bed in particular which was not a turn on at all, I can assure you, at least not for me who likes to roam and seduce. BUT, the empathy I witness was NOT driven by need or gain. In particular, when she showed anger and controlled rage to my 13 year old boy, the next day she was devastated and was so for several days. There was absolutely no gain, she felt very hurt. If the deciding factor truly is that HPD's have no empathy unless it is self serving, then I have to take my ex off of the list, but so much of the other character traits fit.

Again, having spent a good four years developing a fairly good understanding of all of this, the one thing that I have learned is that there are no absolutes, ever. We have all remained here because there are just so many common traits and symptoms but every single ex comes with their own experiences, their own history and therefore their own nuances. These are human beings after all and we loved them, genuinely, at least most of us did and while the FOG is a powerful thing, none of us are idiots. We felt real people there. I hear it often "don't feel ashamed for getting duped" This is where I believe that some veer towards the whole "I got suckered by the charlatan" defense. I have yet to meet any do do's here. None of us are that dim that we couldn't smell fakes. If your relationship lasted a good amount of time, then I am sorry, there were genuine feelings on the other side.

Anyway, I digress. My point is simply this. None of us can draw a line in the sand on any symptom of any of these disorders. These are not robots but human beings. We may be angry at them for the hurt that they caused but I think each needs to be looked at case by case, it's that simple.

I lament one thing about my past relationship and that is the women that I know that I saw glimpses of, in my almost four years with her. That is what I miss and believe could have been my partner to the end. Alas, she wasn't alone, she had other people inside of her that would take control all too often. Our fight was to get back the girl or boy that we knew was in there. At a certain point, it just became a losing battle and we realized that we simply didn't have the where with all to endure the pain, nor should we have been expected to. We fought damn hard and I have no doubt that most of us have left indelible marks on our ex's, that will never go away. Sometimes, recycles are yearnings to reconnect with people they do actually love, but nothing changes in how they manage those events so it always ends in more pain for all concerned.

Et voila!

[Fr4nz]

Hey Jammo,

so just to reply to the main points of your last post... .

About breaking no-contact: in my case I didn't hear a peep from her since N/C started, which is the end of February.

The only "indirect" contact I had was that, on mid-march, she added a song in her own playlist in my Spotify account we used to share. The song is "9 Crimes" from Damien Rice and it is the following:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgqOSCgc8xc

There was no sense to still use my Spotify account so, to me, this was a clear attempt to communicate something to me (and probably the only way of avoiding fighting by sustaining a conversation with me).

To me, it seems that she wanted to express her sadness about the end of our relationship and, at the same time, some sort of apology for her cheating behaviours. Given that only recently I realized how much strong is her HPD side, only now I fully realize this apology. Contestually, the day after she unblocked me in whatsapp (I was blocked since N/C start)... .however, I did not react at all, to me it was pointless to communicate with her, given the current situation.

What's your opinion about the song-thing Jammo?

About your story: I can relate with most of the patterns I experienced as well. And about having a baby, wow! Listen what happened to me: two months before the start of our relationship, she had an abortion; fast forward two months, just the second day our relationship started: second time we had sex she tells me during the act: "let's make a baby"    

And she repeated this statement other times!

Another big, huge red flag I ignored in the very beginning of the relationship... .   

To conclude, a very interesting thing I'd really like to discuss: the first time I saw her after the breakup I noticed that in her smartphone my telefone number was not associated anymore with my name... .it was just a number (PS: I was not spying on her, she was showing me her smartphone for other reasons).

I already noticed this thing when I was in relationship with her, since the vast majority of her contacts were just... .numbers.

However, until N/C she kept writing and calling me, so I found this very odd.

Do you think she did this in order to avoid drunk calls? This really really bugged me... .

[Fr4nz]

And... .just to add some very interesting material about the BPD+HPD issue, there's a very interesting thread in psychforum:

www.psychforums.com/histrionic-personality/topic62031.html

[Fr4nz]

And just to report a very interesting insight about HPDs behaviours an HPD+BPD woman, AliceWonder, wrote:

You're right though, we do do that little girl thing A LOT! And it's not only when you're in 'trouble' we also do it to gain your fatherly instinct to protect us and nuture us. We become childlike and innocent, in order to 'play with you' and provoke those emotions and drives, to stimmulate the unconditional love and acceptance a father figure would provide (because we never had it) and to make sure you become compassionate and receptive to our needs/desires. I'm sure if the other guys here thought about it, they too would easily recognize that coy little girl look, the innocent giggle and childlike excitement she expresses from time to time. We appeal to our love object as more than just a woman and more than just sex, we present them with an adoration and understanding of a mother figure, we reach them on level of friendship and compassion, we become the child they secretly wish to nurture (subconcsiously in your mind- for the most part) we become your sexual fantasy live and in living color- think about your X, and look at the many roles she filled, the faces she wore and the needs she met in your life... .

It's more than good and bad, love and hate, there's so much more that goes deeper into BOTH psyches, she is a representation of many your own infantile and adult needs all rolled into one- isn't she? She appeals to you on so many levels- things you don't even realize unless you look much deeper into her and yourself. She places her needs on YOU in all these rolls as well. She wants you to be the father, the friend, the lover, the child, the provider, the saviour, the 'one' who will meet all her infantile and adult needs (though infantile needs, with adult sexuality is a btter description I think). And as such- you guys become 'perfect' for each other!

You're BOTH acting out a fantasy here. Yes, SHE has drawn you in; but you are acting in the play out of your own free will. She's provoked the emotional ties in you that stimmulate all your instinctive drives towards her. This is how she poisons you, this is yet another level of the game. A deeper level that reaches your subconcsious and makes you drawn to her in a way you've never been drawn to anyone else in your life.

Why?

Because she represents EVERYTHING you've ever hoped and dreamed for all rolled into one beautiful thing that you can hold and love for the rest of your life. That doesn't happen though, and we know that- so what happens, the bad in her is seen and craziness plays it's role in the relationships destruction. And YET- you still feel addicted to her, you still feel drawn to help her, shelter her, save her, and be there for her- why?

Paternal instinct and parental drives have been set in place towards her through those childlike manouvers and you are attached to her, as a father feels attached to a child (in some degree, because your attachment will eventually faid off over time and anger) but still, you keep giving her chances because like any good father you believe in your little girl- don't you?

And about the intentionality of their behaviours:

You're response is confussing, but it's justly confussing because you're absolutely right- it happens both consciously and uncounsciously. Which is a confussing thing in itself- isn't it?

One a conscious level, we know we are interested in the 'object' and we know that if we play the game right they will become interested in us and we can have what we want from them. Right?

We seek to find -> we find what we like -> and we go after it- correct?

So in 'seek to find', and 'find what we like' mode, this all done within the perameters of our conscious awareness for the most part. It's when we go after it that the lines get blurred... .

We don't necessarily 'realize' we're doing the many thing we do to read people and gain their affection/interest (I know I used to consciously do it as stripper [working guys in the club because that was my job] but I didn't notice I did it in relationships until I began introspecting and evaluating myself more honestly and thoughroughly and I was shocked to see I did it everywhere in my life- not just the clubs) but we do. We do it subcouncsiously to them and take that information subconcsiously into ourselves to convince ourselves we are exactly what they want and need in life, and we become what they desire.

This isn't done vindictively, and with the intent to harm- on the contrary, we want to make you happy, we want to have your love, we want to give you our love, and we want that happy ending. Everything here is done with the very best intentions, we don't seek to harm you in the begginning! We're not even 'pretending' to be something we're not on a concsious level- we convince ourselves that we are what you want and need and become that thing on a certain level (not deep, but more than supperficial- medium rare, lets say) and because we manipulate OURSELVES into being this, it also manipulates YOU to believing it! It's an outright LIE- but we lie to you and ourselves as well- really messed up sh*t I know, but it's true... .We place ourselves into the state of being 'persona' while we are with you, and when you're gone we're back to ourselves (if we know who 'we' are) and this is done so quickly, accurately and completely that neither you nore we even know it's happened. Totally subconcsious and a natural thing for us to do this in our lives and we don't blink twice at the whole thing.

So the reading and becoming aspect of 'go after it' mode- is mainly subconcsious... .

You can consciously see that it's working, you can concsiously know when it's not; but that inner adaptation and conformity is only happenning deep within you, and unless you LOOK for it- you don't know it's happening at all. Nore does the NON.

So yeah, it's BOTH Twisted. Look at your own situations and see where you've done this- it's pretty fu*kin freaky if you ask me :shock:

I suppose the only reason I can see this so clearly is because of my years in the club where I had to do this to make a living and it became my craft. But if I look outside of the clubs, into relationships that started even before I began stripping- I was doing this very thing time and time again before I turned it into my profession.

[\quote]

[jammo1989]

Thanks for this it was a fantastic read and it fits perfectly into the experience I had, she was the cook, the cleaner, the porn star, the one that pushed me to get a job, pushed me to drive, even though she never acquired those in the first place.  Regarding your question, lets ask this first, why is your number blocked and not deleted?  She wants to be in control of the situation thats why, I mean lets think about this, when you block a number you can call them, but, they cant call you.  Furthermore a blocked number is still seen on her blocked list, so technically she still has your number but its also blocked, from a logical stand point what would be the point of that? If she deleted your number she would forget wouldn't she? but instead shes blocked you but still has your number visually on her contact list.  My only guess as to why she changed your name is to be secretive.  For example, whos to say when you were with her, she didnt have her male fan calling and texting under different names and number, and as I said before she did cheat on you.  For her it was an extra bit of security, as you did say she always used to be texting on her phone, god forbid you snatched the phone to see the name, she would go crazy at you, so using numbers, or should we say code names is an easier way to keep her fan club in the picture while your also giving her that attention in person.          

[Fr4nz]

Thanks for this it was a fantastic read and it fits perfectly into the experience I had, she was the cook, the cleaner, the porn star, the one that pushed me to get a job, pushed me to drive, even though she never acquired those in the first place.  Regarding your question, lets ask this first, why is your number blocked and not deleted?  She wants to be in control of the situation thats why, I mean lets think about this, when you block a number you can call them, but, they cant call you.  Furthermore a blocked number is still seen on her blocked list, so technically she still has your number but its also blocked, from a logical stand point what would be the point of that? If she deleted your number she would forget wouldn't she? but instead shes blocked you but still has your number visually on her contact list.  My only guess as to why she changed your name is to be secretive.  For example, whos to say when you were with her, she didnt have her male fan calling and texting under different names and number, and as I said before she did cheat on you.  For her it was an extra bit of security, as you did say she always used to be texting on her phone, god forbid you snatched the phone to see the name, she would go crazy at you, so using numbers, or should we say code names is an easier way to keep her fan club in the picture while your also giving her that attention in person.          

Well, actually after the Spotify thing she unblocked my number (but I didn't react), and the number is still unblocked up to this day. I just didn't react in any way.

Anyway, after knowing the new facts I think I'm approaching the acceptance phase: when I was trying to describe her by means of the BPD framework, lots of pieces of the puzzle fitted, yet not everything was in its place. Now that I realized she has a very strong HPD component as well (indeed, perhaps the dominant between the two) everything fits.

On the one hand I'm fully realizing only now that the amount of manipulative techniques she uses, which she mostly employs at unconscious level, are just used to secure attention, love... .and, in the end, it was her very original way of pleasing and fully love me; on the other hand, I'm also realizing that these manipulative techniques are mind-boggling, incredibly powerful and had profound consequences in both mine and her psyche (and from these stemmed our incredibly intense relationship).

And, in the end, her behaviours are just the end product of her miserable childhood and adolescence... .so, how one can fully blame her?

In conclusion: where's her responsibility then? The responsibility stays in her inability to intellectually tackle her problems, given she's very clever. But, in the end, I will heal, while she will always have to endure terrible pain and guilt until she will find enough strenght to look inside her and fix her terrible issues which keeps destroying her life and hurt people close to her.

[jammo1989]

Thanks for this it was a fantastic read and it fits perfectly into the experience I had, she was the cook, the cleaner, the porn star, the one that pushed me to get a job, pushed me to drive, even though she never acquired those in the first place.  Regarding your question, lets ask this first, why is your number blocked and not deleted?  She wants to be in control of the situation thats why, I mean lets think about this, when you block a number you can call them, but, they cant call you.  Furthermore a blocked number is still seen on her blocked list, so technically she still has your number but its also blocked, from a logical stand point what would be the point of that? If she deleted your number she would forget wouldn't she? but instead shes blocked you but still has your number visually on her contact list.  My only guess as to why she changed your name is to be secretive.  For example, whos to say when you were with her, she didnt have her male fan calling and texting under different names and number, and as I said before she did cheat on you.  For her it was an extra bit of security, as you did say she always used to be texting on her phone, god forbid you snatched the phone to see the name, she would go crazy at you, so using numbers, or should we say code names is an easier way to keep her fan club in the picture while your also giving her that attention in person.          

Well, actually after the Spotify thing she unblocked my number (but I didn't react), and the number is still unblocked up to this day. I just didn't react in any way.

Anyway, after knowing the new facts I think I'm approaching the acceptance phase: when I was trying to describe her by means of the BPD framework, lots of pieces of the puzzle fitted, yet not everything was in its place. Now that I realized she has a very strong HPD component as well (indeed, perhaps the dominant between the two) everything fits.

On the one hand I'm fully realizing only now that the amount of manipulative techniques she uses, which she mostly employs at unconscious level, are just used to secure attention, love... .and, in the end, it was her very original way of pleasing and fully love me; on the other hand, I'm also realizing that these manipulative techniques are mind-boggling, incredibly powerful and had profound consequences in both mine and her psyche (and from these stemmed our incredibly intense relationship).

And, in the end, her behaviours are just the end product of her miserable childhood and adolescence... .so, how one can fully blame her?

In conclusion: where's her responsibility then? The responsibility stays in her inability to intellectually tackle her problems, given she's very clever. But, in the end, I will heal, while she will always have to endure terrible pain and guilt until she will find enough strenght to look inside her and fix her terrible issues which keeps destroying her life and hurt people close to her.

The easiest way of wanting to accept and understand is by taking away the label of HPD and how she behaves now and just think of her as a child in a woman's body.  What I mean by this is, People will tell you shes has not been diagnosed so you don't know do you? but the fact of the matter is YOU experienced this woman as her inner fan club not others.  Furthermore, lets use my ex for another example, a child who grew up without loving parents, foster care and physical abuse throughout, left on some randoms door step and a male who she thought was and still is her father (who isnt on her birth certificate) doesnt protect her and tries to keep his distance.  She will call him and he will cut her off mid call, tell her ill come up and see you next week then changes plans last minute, made her live with her mum again after she was beaten by her mothers ex (made her live in that environment)  Now this is the most important part which I hope you can relate to.

If I as a healthy human being had to go through that, I would resent my parents and would happily go NC because its wrong on every level... .BUT my ex still tries to this day to contact her mother the heroin addict, her reasoning I know what she did to me was wrong, but shes still my mother and I still want to be there for her.  Now take into consideration her mum would say my ex could stay at hers, she would travel to see her and she would kick and lock her out the house, she also only contacts my ex when she needs money for drugs.  Now sit back and tell me what normal person would accept this behavior?  she would fight for her mother even though her mother abused and never protected her, and with this kind of Stockholm syndrome is doesn't take a professional to see that their thinking and thought process is faulty.        

[Fr4nz]

The easiest way of wanting to accept and understand is by taking away the label of HPD and how she behaves now and just think of her as a child in a woman's body.  What I mean by this is, People will tell you shes has not been diagnosed so you don't know do you? but the fact of the matter is YOU experienced this woman as her inner fan club not others.  Furthermore, lets use my ex for another example, a child who grew up without loving parents, foster care and physical abuse throughout, left on some randoms door step and a male who she thought was and still is her father (who isnt on her birth certificate) doesnt protect her and tries to keep his distance.  She will call him and he will cut her off mid call, tell her ill come up and see you next week then changes plans last minute, made her live with her mum again after she was beaten by her mothers ex (made her live in that environment)  Now this is the most important part which I hope you can relate to.

Sure, I can relate. My ex had a very, VERY turbulent relationship with her father (now she's NC with him since 3 years). Literally a love and hate relationship, where she feels the powerless party when they meet. In many cases she told me how she loves him but also how she's utterly desperate about how he behaves with her (mostly in a non affective way) and, because of this, she hates him as well.

So, for what relates the relationship with the father: I'd say that my ex and your ex are quite similar.

Even more, I'll tell you this: she repeatedly told me that she cannot believe that men can love her because of the way her father treats her. This is indeed one of the key concepts she repeated many many times during our relationship, and also because of this I clearly understood there was something VERY wrong in her (even though I didn't have enough knowledge to say it was BPD/HPD at that time).

However, this luckily does not prevent her to love men deeply (in her own, dysregulated way), and even realize from an intellectual standpoint that men can really love her. The problem is: feelings are facts, so the intellectual standpoint, in the end, counts ZERO.

PS: reading the thread in psychforums, it really seems that one of the key aspects in HPD female partners is the focus on the relationship with the father. Dunno about HPD men however, it would be interesting to investigate... .

If I as a healthy human being had to go through that, I would resent my parents and would happily go NC because its wrong on every level... .BUT my ex still tries to this day to contact her mother the heroin addict, her reasoning I know what she did to me was wrong, but shes still my mother and I still want to be there for her.  Now take into consideration her mum would say my ex could stay at hers, she would travel to see her and she would kick and lock her out the house, she also only contacts my ex when she needs money for drugs.  Now sit back and tell me what normal person would accept this behavior?  she would fight for her mother even though her mother abused and never protected her, and with this kind of Stockholm syndrome is doesn't take a professional to see that their thinking and thought process is faulty.        

Even my ex has a love/hate relationship with her mother. However, in my case, even if I think that her mother did very, very bad mistakes with her in the past, nowadays she's a mother that is trying everything to make her happy and solve her issues, and I also tried to facilitate the relationship between them... .unfortunately, there are deep issues which would take a terapist to be solved

[jammo1989]

The easiest way of wanting to accept and understand is by taking away the label of HPD and how she behaves now and just think of her as a child in a woman's body.  What I mean by this is, People will tell you shes has not been diagnosed so you don't know do you? but the fact of the matter is YOU experienced this woman as her inner fan club not others.  Furthermore, lets use my ex for another example, a child who grew up without loving parents, foster care and physical abuse throughout, left on some randoms door step and a male who she thought was and still is her father (who isnt on her birth certificate) doesnt protect her and tries to keep his distance.  She will call him and he will cut her off mid call, tell her ill come up and see you next week then changes plans last minute, made her live with her mum again after she was beaten by her mothers ex (made her live in that environment)  Now this is the most important part which I hope you can relate to.

Sure, I can relate. My ex had a very, VERY turbulent relationship with her father (now she's NC with him since 3 years). Literally a love and hate relationship, where she feels the powerless party when they meet. In many cases she told me how she loves him but also how she's utterly desperate about how he behaves with her (mostly in a non affective way) and, because of this, she hates him as well.

So, for what relates the relationship with the father: I'd say that my ex and your ex are quite similar.

Even more, I'll tell you this: she repeatedly told me that she cannot believe that men can love her because of the way her father treats her. This is indeed one of the key concepts she repeated many many times during our relationship, and also because of this I clearly understood there was something VERY wrong in her (even though I didn't have enough knowledge to say it was BPD/HPD at that time).

However, this luckily does not prevent her to love men deeply (in her own, dysregulated way), and even realize from an intellectual standpoint that men can really love her. The problem is: feelings are facts, so the intellectual standpoint, in the end, counts ZERO.

PS: reading the thread in psychforums, it really seems that one of the key aspects in HPD female partners is the focus on the relationship with the father. Dunno about HPD men however, it would be interesting to investigate... .

If I as a healthy human being had to go through that, I would resent my parents and would happily go NC because its wrong on every level... .BUT my ex still tries to this day to contact her mother the heroin addict, her reasoning I know what she did to me was wrong, but shes still my mother and I still want to be there for her.  Now take into consideration her mum would say my ex could stay at hers, she would travel to see her and she would kick and lock her out the house, she also only contacts my ex when she needs money for drugs.  Now sit back and tell me what normal person would accept this behavior?  she would fight for her mother even though her mother abused and never protected her, and with this kind of Stockholm syndrome is doesn't take a professional to see that their thinking and thought process is faulty.        

Even my ex has a love/hate relationship with her mother. However, in my case, even if I think that her mother did very, very bad mistakes with her in the past, nowadays she's a mother that is trying everything to make her happy and solve her issues, and I also tried to facilitate the relationship between them... .unfortunately, there are deep issues which would take a terapist to be solved

After 10 months out and speaking you about HPD, I think I finally know why i still dwell over it, at first it was the fact that I missed her and the little ones, as she brought out the most confident part of me I ever felt, from compliments as well as wanting to be the perfect girlfriend (Mirroring) I didnt miss her I missed the way she made me feel, it goes much further than  NON relationship as Alice Wonders explained about how they morph into what you want them to be.  But now 10 months down the road and after speaking to you I have realized we are trying to accomplish something that cant be achieved.  For example, I now wish I could just say to her, I know the real you, so stop be an actress and trust me, but that cant and will never be achieved because the real them is something they don't even know, hence the term emotional vampire.  So when you really think about it, you either accept that you loved an illusion of yourself that never existed or you put up with the truth the real her, the one that is selfish, cheats and lacks symphony for others, what would you rather?

She made me feel guilty, but I know deep down it was her that was to blame for everything,  For example 6 months into the relationship, she said her 6 year old wants to meet me soon, and I said I really cant wait to meet him, but what if he doesn't accept me?  she burst out crying, had an hours call on skype of her crying then laughing, then she said I need space to think, Im having a girls weekend in I want to be alone so dont call me.  That weekend I stayed up till 7am until she text me back, but I also had her on find my friends and she was walking around at 4am between 2 houses and ended up in a different house than where her mates was, the next day her ex husband calls me (he was severely jealous) and said "B... .was telling me you guys are on a break and then said that her and her mates got some male strippers off Plenty of Fish (her mates are those kind) I then rang her and said im done, and she said you spoke to my husband didn't you? and then she said i knew it, dropped to her knees and I have never heard someone cry like that on the phone before.  Then for 2 weeks she tried so hard to contact me, and i switched off, i didn't care, because I also knew from the find my friends app that there was a strong possibility.  During that time, she started texting some other guy, then in the end stupid me booked us a hotel which cost me £140 for 1 night, took her out for a 3 course meal, had loads of sex, then (need your opinion here please) from out of no where she burst out crying while we were having intercourse I said whats wrong? and she said I dont know, and she had tears running down her face.  BUT... .3 hours before we met up she went for a drink with her girl mates in a pub near me and she bumped into the guy she was now texting, and she caused a scene by saying "You think you can have me, well you don't deserve, dont you dare lead me down the garden path!"  So was her crying anything to do with that? ever since then she refused to trust me because I broke up with her but I had a reason to, this is what im getting at you never did anything wrong they did they were the ones that caused the break up.