S7 meets GAD criteria, possibly ADHD and mother with BPD traits

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

My S7 meets the criteria for GAD and the Dr doesn't want to rule out ADHD. I started assessments by a referral with the family MD and then Mental Health Services through the clinic at the hospital.  He has a history of speech delay,  attentiveness , emotional dysregulations.  He meets the criteria for Generalized Anxiety Disorder and possibly ADHD. He's going to get re-assessed in another 6-8 months.

Are there parents on this board that have kids that have a disorder and a parent with BPD traits?

How has the parent with BPD affected the child with stability and improvement?

It is suggested that he needs a lot of structure, routine and consistency.

[Mutt]

My S7 meets the criteria for GAD and the Dr doesn't want to rule out ADHD. I started assessments by a referral with the family MD and then Mental Health Services through the clinic at the hospital.  He has a history of speech delay,  attentiveness , emotional dysregulations.  He meets the criteria for Generalized Anxiety Disorder and possibly ADHD. He's going to get re-assessed in another 6-8 months.

Are there parents on this board that have kids that have a disorder and a parent with BPD traits?

How has the parent with BPD affected the child with stability and improvement?

It is suggested that he needs a lot of structure, routine and consistency.

[Sunfl0wer]

I watched my sister raise her three kids.  She has uBPD.

The youngest child was usually painted black.  She has a diagnosis of ODD.  She was a strong willed child that I always felt her energy could be cultivated and used to her advantage.  She took incentive, I felt she could run her own business.  Unfortunately for the child, she only had mom in her life, mom isolated her from everyone (me included) so she did not have many opportunities for other healthy r/s opportunities growing up.

I believe my niece also has dyslexia, and possibly other learning disabilities.  I do not believe my sister cared to be attentive about any of the kids educational needs.  She dropped out of high school... .and other things.

The other two have issues with major depression and anxiety, however, are managing with the difficult situations.

I think that you have some advantage in your situation though Mutt.  You have shared custody, I believe, therefore your S will never just be on his own with his mom.  He will always have you to advocate and ensure there is follow through with health care and mental health professionals.

What could be neat or interesting... .  Is that you may find an advantage in this?

Is it possible that he be evaluated by a behavioral specialist?  (This can be recommended even without ADHD). Typically the behavioral specialist will want to evaluate S in his home environment, make a home visit to both homes and make recommendations for there to be consistency with plans implemented.  The behavior specialist will know if there is follow through and help guide mom, ... .and you... .with whatever she recommends.

I have found that sometimes pwBPD can put on a good show... .and my ex's... .exW, was only behaving somewhat not psychotic, because she acted like every event was a performance for a judge.  I didn't care her motivation... .it was great to have her pretend the role!  Idk your details... .but just sharing in case.

[Mutt]

Hi Sunfl0wer,

Thank you for the response. It must have been difficult that your sister was isolating the kids from family?

From what I can tell my sons and my daughter are not split black. My daughter wanted me to configure my email address on her tablet and I did see some messages from mom and she is split white.

My exes' daughter turned 16 this year and she left because she couldn't tolerate her mother's emotions and physical abuse. She was the child in the family that was split black. I was worried that she would turn on one of the other kids.

It doesn't sound like my ex is lashing out at the kids and she is lashing out at the boyfriend. I believe her boyfriend vents some of his frustrations on my kids because he often gets inappropriately angry with them.

I think that I have worry for S7 and you are right, he does have his father in his corner to advocate. He's attached to his mother and I think that's were my feelings stem from. He worries me most out of the three kids because he has certain difficulties with coping and his mother is incredibly narcissistic. It's all about her.

My ex can put on a show and I recall how she kept it together in front of our lawyers in court. I do think that is a wonderful idea that this is something that can work in dad's favor with behavioral therapists. This way there's a neutral party that can guide and implement plans that way it reassures my ex that there's an issue. She may very well be in denial, dissociate and project.

[livednlearned]

Hi Mutt,

I think a lot of these issues start to show when the kids turn 7 or 8. I was writing about something similar in another thread:

I found another article that summarizes some of the research about kids with BPD parents (mothers not specified, although that's where most of the research focuses):

Several fixed methods studies looked at the psychopathological tendencies of children raised by parents with borderline personality disorder. The results of these studies suggested children raised by a parent with BPD may be susceptible to an episode of major depression (Barnow, Spitzer, Grabe, Kessler, & Freyberger, 2006), ADHD, conduct disorder, disruptive behavior disorder or BPD (Feldman et al., 1995). Children raised by parents with chronic mental illness are likely to have an episode of major depression (Abela, Skitch, Auerbach & Adams, 2005; Pittman & Matthey, 2004), however the risk of depression becomes even greater for children whose parent’s axis I diagnosis is coupled with the axis II diagnosis of Borderline Personality Disorder (Abela et al.)."

S13 was diagnosed initially with GAD, ADHD, oppositional defiant disorder (ODD), and depression when he was 8. Honestly, I think it's a miracle that any child with a BPD parent doesn't suffer from anxiety/depression. I think S13 also has some mild OCD and sensory processing issues (SPD) which can go with ADHD.

I feel I've done a lot of good work with the anxiety (mindfulness + validation skills). It's the depression that is harder to address. And depression is the flip side of anxiety -- the two often go together. Depression can be harder to see in kids (we have an article on the emotional/psychological effects of divorce on kids at different ages that might help: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=271677.msg12577885#msg12577885)

I'm trying to understand all of this too. There is not a whole lot about the emotional resilience of kids who have a BPD parent. I do find comfort in learning how important it is for these kids to have a stable and emotionally healthy parent in their lives. That's you  

[Sunfl0wer]

I apologize for not remembering/knowing your details... .

However, you mention the others affected.  Sounds like S7 is not the only child you guys have in common... .

Something else that was extremely helpful for my SD14 sorting out her thoughts on topics... .

My S17!  I intentionally opened up topics for discussion re values with the kids.  If my son was having boundary issues with a GF or a GF mom... .etc.  I made an open discussion for all to participate. (With his permission ahead of time of course) SD14 did not trust the adults in her life, she always assumed us to have a secret agenda (as her BPD mom taught her to think). However, she respected S17 and knew he would never just defend anyone, myself and her dad included, unless we seriously, seriously were above and beyond worthy.  So on issues of values... .(it appeared as casual conversation... .and it was). ... .her eyes would light up, she'd get involved in some very healthy heated debates with S17 on matters... .sometimes I'd join too.  (Not dad tho... .she clammed up for him)  S17's opinions clearly had an affect on her.  S17 saw things in her values he himself didn't like, however, he was always good to never personalize the conversations, instead is a very logical, strategic thinker and good debater... .but has a teenage way of expressing it still.

Maybe there is a way to find others who are not adults to influence S7?  Maybe if not siblings, maybe boys scouts? Martial arts? A young but mature guy babysitter?

(Srry again to not know all your info... .as I'm sure it's all here somewhere)

[Sunfl0wer]

Thanks Mutt, yes, losing my sister's kids to alienation was horrific to me.  Then loosing my "SD" (we were not actually married) was reliving that pain again... .after my ex alienated her from me... .   ... .after I "rescued" him from his exW alienation campaign.

*sigh*

It is where I'm stuck in my healing journey.

Time to rescue myself... .so I do not have an urge to rescue anymore.

But that is a story for another post.

Thanks for all your support around here!

[Mutt]

I think it helps knowing that there's another parent with a child going through similar challenges and I think it's surprising that not all kids suffer from anxiety / depression. I agree there's comfort with having an emotionally healthy parent in their lives.

I had a meeting with my son's teacher, a child psychologist, social worker and the behavioral therapist after I was granted shared custody. I had started the process with getting my S7 assesed. I recall getting frustrated at the social worker because she said to try to work with the mother and I took it personal like the conflict was coming from dad. I said "The conflict in a relationship doesn't necessarily end when the relationship is over" and I left it at that.

All of them were in a meeting and I and the behavioral therapist talked after the meeting in his office because I was interested in learning some of the tools. I talked about validating the kids feelings and I think he was surprised. He said that he noticed that my son was withdrawn for a few months and that he seemed happier and more outgoing which was good to hear because the kids didn't get a lot of time with dad.

E.   DEPRESSION

Lethargy, sleep and eating disturbances, acting out, social withdrawal, physical injury (more common in adolescents).

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=271677.msg12577885#msg12577885

It could very well be that he was socially withdrawn due to depression. My wife had abruptly moved out and her boyfriend semi-moved in with little access to dad. It displayed little empathy for what the kids were going through.

I had asked the behavioral therapist when he started noticing a difference and the time frame matches with when I was granted shared custody. It's not to say that he's not going to go into another depressive episode and the information provided livednlearned helps.

I have to work with him and I think the other kids as well, they may feel left out if I gave him more attention than the others. His siblings get frustrated with him because he gets emotionally dysregulated if he gets teased or they take something from him if they intended to or not. I think that there's some work to do there with getting them to understand that he copes differently although my youngest is too young to understand. Perhaps my D9 may.

There's no need to apologize Sunfl0wer. I think that's wonderful that your S17 was a rolemodel for your SD14 and he sounds like an intelligent young man, he may be the INTJ personality type with strategic / logical thinking.

My son seems to do well with peers at school and there are times that he does get picked on. He's enrolled in boyscouts and he's in soccer. I think that a young mature guy babysitter / role model is a good idea, perhaps a big brother? I think that it will help him and and have a role model and simply have fun and or someone that he trusts to talk to.

I am sorry you were alienated from your kids sisters that sounds terrible. I can understand how that would trigger painful feelings when you lost your SD. I struggled with losing my SD as well. I do hope that you those feelings sorted out. It's hard losing a child.

[Sunfl0wer]

There's no need to apologize Sunfl0wer. I think that's wonderful that your S17 was a rolemodel for your SD14 and he sounds like an intelligent young man, he may be the INTJ personality type with strategic / logical thinking.

Lol!  He did the test last year.  Yes, he is INTJ!  It was insanely accurate for him... .it even says he paces to think... .he does!

I had a meeting with my son's teacher, a child psychologist, social worker and the behavioral therapist after I was granted shared custody. I had started the process with getting my S7 assesed. I recall getting frustrated at the social worker because she said to try to work with the mother and I took it personal like the conflict was coming from dad. I said "The conflict in a relationship doesn't necessarily end when the relationship is over" and I left it at that.

Oh, I didn't realize that the behavioral specialist was through the school system.  In that case, they would only be looking at educationally relevant behavioral issues.  That is not what I was going for.

My son had ABA in elementary school.  He performed in some classes but not others.  The ABA observed him in his worst class, and also his best class.  She identified reasons and things that helped him to perform, and things that made it difficult.  Typically when people hear "behavior specialist," they think... " My kid must be bad."  I was surprised and pleased and now have great respect for the ABA and her role.  She was not at all focusing on behavior in any judgmental way, it was more all about cause and affect.  (I can explain more if you like/need... .I love what the ABA's do and I apply the concepts in my life with general parenting and r/s.). What she did was create a plan for all of the teacher to use the same strategies and techniques for my son in every class.  She eliminated the confusion for him of having separate expectations/results/consequences/rewards in each class.  There was a written black/white program, that was amazingly simple enough for all to follow so everyone could be on the same page with consistent expectations for my son. It worked! My son loved it!

What I was thinking for you... .

Was a referral for a home ABA that does the same concept, however, the plan is for the home environment.

The school plan had nothing to do with me at all... .other than the fact that I met with the team and was included in conferences.

[Mutt]

I'm also INTJ  Absolutely I am interested in hearing more about ABA's.

[Sunfl0wer]

ABA relies on the ABC's.  

First you learn the meaning of the ABC.

Then you learn how to correctly identify the A, B, and C in your real life situation. (This can prove to be tricker than you may think) After identifying the A,B and C... . The goal is to really look at the A so that the B can be prevented in the first place.  So many times, we have so much control over the A and just addressing this can prevent the behavior.  Ok, so not always.  Then we need a plan to decide ahead of time, what our C will be.  We must be clear and consistent with the C every time.  Whenever I have observed an ABA assist with C, she has never ever shown any emotion about it.  It was delivered matter of fact the way a scientist doing some objective experiment would "react" and do the next step.

After that, it can work amazingly!

(Disclaimer: I am not an ABA, I have observed their work)

So... .

A = Antecedent

B = Behavior

C = Consequence

I find A the trickiest.  Here is a link to help:

www.bcotb.com/antecedents-the-a-in-the-abcs-of-behavioral-analysis/

Here is an easy chart to help, it has the simple meaning of the A,B & C included:

www.behaviorguy.com/Documents/abc_chart.pdf

 

I will have to come back later and provide an example so it makes sense.

[Mutt]

I can how the A is the trickiest. My son gets emotionally dysregulated and I don't understand what the cause is and I can modify my response.

I can see how tracking the behavior and the triggers may identify certain behavioral patterns and what the triggers? I appreciate the chart that way I can track  

In technical terms, antecedents of behavior are stimulus events, situations, or circumstances that precede an operant response (Miltenberger, 2004).

In Laymen terms, an antecedent is what was happening or what/who was present right before the behavior occurred.

To understand and modify behavior, it’s important to analyze the antecedents and consequences. When we understand the antecedents of a behavior we have information on the circumstances in which the behavior was reinforced and was punished (Miltenberger, 2004).

Since behaviors tend to occur more in situations in which it has been reinforced and less in situations where it has been punished, having this valuable information helps us to predict the situations and environments the behavior will be more likely to occur

[livednlearned]

Would you describe S7 as having high emotionality? Is he sensitive?

[Mutt]

Yes he does have high emotionality. For example, I think his siblings get frustrated with him and I caught him once really tensed up, yelling and cocking his fist at his sister like he was going to punch her.

Sometimes he'll say "I'm the worst kid in the world" and "I want to kill myself" and have a meltdown and hyper-ventilate. I notice he is sensitive with hearing and complains that his ears hurt when the decibel level seems tolerable to me. That's why I thought it was autism.

[livednlearned]

Have you read anything about "highly sensitive children"? I wandered around all kinds of diagnoses, including sensory processing, ODD, ADHD, dyslexia, misophonia (sensitivity to sound), anxiety, depression. It's a big puzzle to unlock things in kids.

Highly Sensitive Child is a book that sums up S13 really well. I figure S13's behavior is an expression of his "high emotionality" or sensitive genotype that he inherited from his dad. I approach him like he's a "5%" child who has different needs than most kids, and validate him up one side and down the other. It's taken a while, but I feel that he accepts who he is and knows he's a little different, for better and for worse. On the good side, he is exceptionally insightful for his age and very bright. On the challenging side, he is very easily stimulated -- emotionally and intellectually.

I find I parent him a lot in terms of how to regulate his surroundings so he can regulate his emotions.

Maybe S7 is a highly sensitive child? www.hsperson.com/test/highly-sensitive-child-test/

www.amazon.com/The-Highly-Sensitive-Child-Overwhelms/dp/0767908724

[Mutt]

I haven't read anything about highly sensitive children and I am a little familiar with HCP or highly sensitive people   Thank you! I'll check it out.

I like the idea of parenting in terms with how to regulate his surroundings and he can regulate his emotions.

Their mother is due in the fall and she's been emotionally dysregulated lately. I can image how it's like for the kids to cope.

[Mutt]

I think I understand were some of the tension is coming from with D9 and S7. My son got emotionally upset this morning because D9 was telling him to go the kitchen table. He's been sick all week at mom's with the flu and was lethargic last night and I let him sleep in. I made him breakfast after the other two.

I asked S7 what was upsetting because I hadn't heard what was said and he said he hates it when his big sister bosses him around and she's telling him to sit at the table. I understand she's being parentified at mom's. I talked to D9 and she said mom's boyfriend gets mad at her if S7 doesn't do something that he's asked. She used my son's lunch kit as an example; he didn't get his lunch kit and the boyfriend gets mad at her  

I can understand the kids are getting mixed signals, the boyfriend gets frustrated with the oldest often if S7 does something that frustrated the boyfriend. I don't think that makes sense. I think the boyfriend has no clue with parenting and D9 is a helper. Where's mom in all of this?

It's possible the boyfriend gets frustrated with him and my D9 as well. That can't be a good feeling.

[livednlearned]

In families with BPD, it does seem like the kids tend to get split or pitted against each other by the BPD parent. Could the BF have some high-conflict traits? In my family, if my dad yelled at my brother, brother then took it out on me, then I got mad at my mom (weakest link in the family).

No one had the skills or tools to teach us how to connect when we were frustrated or upset.

[Mutt]

I think it's very well possible he has high conflict traits. My ex tried to talk to me last Oct and was indirectly trying to rekindle a friendship. She was avoidant for a year and a half and said for the sake of the kids can we be friends? He had moved in April of that year and I think either her abandonment fears were triggered or something was wrong. That conversation didn't go well, I got angry because I felt invalidated about her affair and triggered shame. Then she got pregnant and I often get messages were she's unhinged, she's dysregulated and the invalidations has to come from somewhere?