Children as triggers

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I saw my (20 year old) stepdaughter yesterday - she's going to stay at my house and dogsit while I'm on vacation.

I haven't seen her for a few months, which makes me sad - I'd like to see her more often, but she's in college and running around with her friends (like I did when I was 20! ) and sometimes I think she feels "in the middle," between me and her mom. So I never pressure her and am just glad for the time I do get to spend with her.

When she came over everything was super comfortable; we had lunch and caught up on things and it was a great time.

However, after she left I was in a funk all day - and I've realized that I get triggered every time I see her. I end up super sad for a day or two, thinking about her (and how she so much less a part of my life now), thinking about my ex and ruminating... .it STINKS.

I would just like to be able to see her without the "baggage" that trails behind for a day or two.  Anyone else experience this? Anyone have any ways that they deal with it?

[jhkbuzz]

I saw my (20 year old) stepdaughter yesterday - she's going to stay at my house and dogsit while I'm on vacation.

I haven't seen her for a few months, which makes me sad - I'd like to see her more often, but she's in college and running around with her friends (like I did when I was 20! ) and sometimes I think she feels "in the middle," between me and her mom. So I never pressure her and am just glad for the time I do get to spend with her.

When she came over everything was super comfortable; we had lunch and caught up on things and it was a great time.

However, after she left I was in a funk all day - and I've realized that I get triggered every time I see her. I end up super sad for a day or two, thinking about her (and how she so much less a part of my life now), thinking about my ex and ruminating... .it STINKS.

I would just like to be able to see her without the "baggage" that trails behind for a day or two.  Anyone else experience this? Anyone have any ways that they deal with it?

[Sunfl0wer]

Hi JHKbuzz!

I suspect I may be chiming in here because I'm interested in what others say to you about this.

(My ex and I were not married, however, I think of his D as my stepdaughter as that is the role I played when we lived together.)

I feel I am very triggered by thoughts of my SD.  I am quite sad and feel most unresolved by many events that occurred during and after the r/s regarding her.  (Much more so than the loss of my ex)

I am aware of the psychology that would tell me to analyze and think about where I was at her age, as raising kids and having experienced trauma, many say that we relive this by raising our kids, especially same sex kids.  I believe this and have felt this to be true for me.

So for me I think my sadness stems from sadness that I was not able to rescue her.  I was not able to fulfill my dream of having the impact on her that I had hoped for, that I knew was possible... .that ex alienated me from fulfilling.

I know my desire to save her is actually a desire to save myself.  This must mean that a part of me still feels the need to be saved.  I know this is a huge area of unfinished therapeutic work for me that I will need to explore.  I'm not fully sure how to do this work for myself tho... .I will need to bring up to my T.

Can you identify where your feelings of sadness are coming from?

[jhkbuzz]

(My ex and I were not married, however, I think of his D as my stepdaughter as that is the role I played when we lived together.)

Same here!

I feel I am very triggered by thoughts of my SD.  I am quite sad and feel most unresolved by many events that occurred during and after the r/s regarding her.  (Much more so than the loss of my ex)

I am okay with thoughts of her, it's when I actually see her that I go into a tailspin (after she leaves).

I am aware of the psychology that would tell me to analyze and think about where I was at her age, as raising kids and having experienced trauma, many say that we relive this by raising our kids, especially same sex kids.  I believe this and have felt this to be true for me.

That ^ is interesting... .although the sad feelings for me are connected to the b/u, not with her in particular.

So for me I think my sadness stems from sadness that I was not able to rescue her.  I was not able to fulfill my dream of having the impact on her that I had hoped for, that I knew was possible... .that ex alienated me from fulfilling.

There's a little of that going on for me, but I actually hung on until she was in college for that very reason - I didn't dare leave her to be raised by her mother alone - it would have been a train wreck. I am actually proud of myself for hanging on - it came at a very high cost to me, but she seems to be a solid, stable young adult. What makes me sad now is that I'll have less of an influence on her adulthood... .but I don't worry about her the same way I would have if she were younger.

I know my desire to save her is actually a desire to save myself.  This must mean that a part of me still feels the need to be saved.  I know this is a huge area of unfinished therapeutic work for me that I will need to explore.  I'm not fully sure how to do this work for myself tho... .I will need to bring up to my T.

Can you identify where your feelings of sadness are coming from?

That question ^ made me cry.  :'( I think it's because I miss her, and because I miss being part of a family. I also think of things in the future I may very well miss out on; her wedding, her children. My ex and I talked about retiring close to her to be near any grandkids. It's all gone now and it just makes me sad. It's a normal sadness, I guess - but I would love to be able to see her without being a mess for the next several days, yanno?

[Sunfl0wer]

Oh jhkbuzz,

I think that I can hear how your sadness is a different kind.  It sounds like you are sad the way any parent is sad that their child is off on their own.  However, you also have an additional sadness as there is this strong "natural" maternal connection, however, the typical bloodline obligation/connection of the r/s isn't there to give you a sense of peace and security. 

Am I close?

It sounds like you are having an additional loss experience because you have lost the full hope of being a part of her adulthood in a way that a natural/legal mom would?

Humm... .

I'm stuck!

For me, I can feel how I am angry at her.  I am having a childish response to this pain in my thoughts of SD and I'm actually angry at her for intentionally punishing me.  Humm... .  That's for another day anyway.

Would it help to find a way to stay connected even with the distance?

This is something I was recommending my ex do to cope... .

Would it help to work on a special project to share with her next time you see her?  Such as a gift that takes some time and effort?  Or a slideshow?  Or some letters you collect for when her wedding day comes around?

Is there a way to make this connection but distance with her more special by doing something with it?

My ex is good with computers... .I think it would help him if he gave her an unlimited coupon book for a holiday for tech support just so she could have a lame excuse to contact him for something routine and boring... .as I know he'd just love that.

[jhkbuzz]

Oh jhkbuzz,

I think that I can hear how your sadness is a different kind.  It sounds like you are sad the way any parent is sad that their child is off on their own.  However, you also have an additional sadness as there is this strong "natural" maternal connection, however, the typical bloodline obligation/connection of the r/s isn't there to give you a sense of peace and security.  

Am I close?

You sure are... .it's the thought that she could disappear from my life without out the "relatedness" that can keep families connected. I'm crying again Sunfl0wer!

It sounds like you are having an additional loss experience because you have lost the full hope of being a part of her adulthood in a way that a natural/legal mom would?

Humm... .

I'm stuck!

You're not stuck, you're just thinking it out with me, and I really appreciate it. I completely related to what you said earlier - that sometimes I'm sadder about my SD than I am about my ex. And yes, I'm sad that I won't be as much a part of her adulthood, for sure.

For me, I can feel how I am angry at her.  I am having a childish response to this pain in my thoughts of SD and I'm actually angry at her for intentionally punishing me.  Humm... . That's for another day anyway.

Angry at... .who?  Your ex or your SD? How old was your SD when you broke up?

Would it help to find a way to stay connected even with the distance?

This is something I was recommending my ex do to cope... .

Would it help to work on a special project to share with her next time you see her?  Such as a gift that takes some time and effort?  Or a slideshow?  Or some letters you collect for when her wedding day comes around?

Is there a way to make this connection but distance with her more special by doing something with it?

My ex is good with computers... .I think it would help him if he gave her an unlimited coupon book for a holiday for tech support just so she could have a lame excuse to contact him for something routine and boring... .as I know he'd just love that.

Those are some good ideas... .I'm going to think about that, thank you!

[Sunfl0wer]

You sure are... .it's the thought that she could disappear from my life without out the "relatedness" that can keep families connected. I'm crying again Sunfl0wer!

 


I'm glad that we can help each other!

 

For me, I can feel how I am angry at her.  I am having a childish response to this pain in my thoughts of SD and I'm actually angry at her for intentionally punishing me.  Humm... . That's for another day anyway.

Angry at... .who?  Your ex or your SD? How old was your SD when you broke up?

Yes, I am feeling angry at SD.

My ex's exW was uBPD and ran a quite effective PAS campaign.  SD was brainwashed.  She began to be cruel to us, (went from being a tool for mom to abuse us... .switched to coming up with her own schemes independent of mom) secretly thinking of ways to kill us, coming up with secret ways to bully and harm us.  So I'm wondering if I am actually angry at SD or not.  Part of me wonders how I can be angry at a child... .especially a brainwashed one.  However, she is now 15 and not so much a child.  Then well... .I am angry at her mom for intentionally harassing us... .well, with that same logic... .mom WAS at one point a brainwashed child too.  So at what point do we decide it is ok to be angry at someone? We were all once children and easily somewhat victims of our circumstances.  So at what age does one loose that "free pass?"  I see that this thought process is flawed... .more just stuff I toss around.  I actually do think we are all genuinely doing our best with what we have... .and if I were SD... .in her shoes... .then I too would be doing exactly what she is doing and processing and behaving the way she does.

So part of me actually believes that all anger is misplaced anger.  That there is not a possibility that I am ever angry at anyone except myself.  So I am truthfully confused at the feeling of anger.

I am stuck in this area of my own self discovery.

Maybe... .if SD is a representation of me... .then my anger is actually self loathing for my own ignorance when I did not know better.  Maybe my anger at her is my way of communicating to myself that I need to forgive myself.  I think I may be getting closer.

Anger is a tough one for me.  I only really have fully known anger recently... .the past four years.  My ex is the first person I fully trusted to experience a real full anger toward.

you're just thinking it out with me, and I really appreciate it

Thank you!

[jhkbuzz]

You sure are... .it's the thought that she could disappear from my life without out the "relatedness" that can keep families connected. I'm crying again Sunfl0wer!

 


I'm glad that we can help each other!

 

For me, I can feel how I am angry at her.  I am having a childish response to this pain in my thoughts of SD and I'm actually angry at her for intentionally punishing me.  Humm... . That's for another day anyway.

Angry at... .who?  Your ex or your SD? How old was your SD when you broke up?

Yes, I am feeling angry at SD.

My ex's exW was uBPD and ran a quite effective PAS campaign.  SD was brainwashed.  She began to be cruel to us, (went from being a tool for mom to abuse us... .switched to coming up with her own schemes independent of mom) secretly thinking of ways to kill us, coming up with secret ways to bully and harm us.  So I'm wondering if I am actually angry at SD or not.  Part of me wonders how I can be angry at a child... .especially a brainwashed one.  However, she is now 15 and not so much a child.  Then well... .I am angry at her mom for intentionally harassing us... .well, with that same logic... .mom WAS at one point a brainwashed child too.  So at what point do we decide it is ok to be angry at someone? We were all once children and easily somewhat victims of our circumstances.  So at what age does one loose that "free pass?"  I see that this thought process is flawed... .more just stuff I toss around.  I actually do think we are all genuinely doing our best with what we have... .and if I were SD... .in her shoes... .then I too would be doing exactly what she is doing and processing and behaving the way she does.

So part of me actually believes that all anger is misplaced anger.  That there is not a possibility that I am ever angry at anyone except myself.  So I am truthfully confused at the feeling of anger.

I am stuck in this area of my own self discovery.

Maybe... .if SD is a representation of me... .then my anger is actually self loathing for my own ignorance when I did not know better.  Maybe my anger at her is my way of communicating to myself that I need to forgive myself.  I think I may be getting closer.

Anger is a tough one for me.  I only really have fully known anger recently... .the past four years.  My ex is the first person I fully trusted to experience a real full anger toward.

you're just thinking it out with me, and I really appreciate it

Thank you!

You know, I don't know if this will help, but here it goes: I think that sometimes, when it comes to emotions, we get a horrible case of the "shoulds."  I "should" understand that she's just a child. I "should" understand that it's multi-generational. I "should" be more forgiving, longsuffering, etc. et. al. blah blah blah.

How about this?  I'm angry. I'm angry that I'm being treated poorly. I'm angry that someone I love can be destructive and hateful towards me. I'm flat out angry.

BUT - this is where integrity comes in.

I'm angry BUT I have enough integrity to refrain from retaliating towards a child.

And I'm WISE enough to draw boundaries so I don't get hurt.

Looks like this:

I'm angry at you, but I love you nevertheless.  My love doesn't give you a free pass to treat me like crap, however, so I'd like you to be in my life if you can abide by that boundary.  If not, we may need to take a break for a little while.

15 is a tough age.  Hormones raging + unstable parent = YIKES!

[Sunfl0wer]

Humm... .

Anger.  Still so foreign to me in many ways.  My emotions were so cut off from myself, raised in some crazy land of false truths, mixed up chaos.  Anger has managed to elude me.

Ok... .I want to try!   

Ok... .I am ___ing pissed of that that ___ing ass who I fought so ___ing hard to protect subjected me and my fragile sick son to the abuse of his exW.

[Sunfl0wer]

LMAO!  I did a preview!  Now I am hysterical laughing!

The preview called my language pornographic!  I hit post quick to see if I'd get kicked out or banished... .or some secret reprimand email... .!

[jhkbuzz]

LMAO!  I did a preview!  Now I am hysterical laughing!

The preview called my language pornographic!  I hit post quick to see if I'd get kicked out or banished... .or some secret reprimand email... .!

Hahaha you're in trouble now!

Emotions are NORMAL - repressing them is not.

Feeling them is more than okay - it's necessary. But acting on them without careful consideration usually leads to disaster.

It's a balance that involves self control.

I'll confess: my SD thinks my ex is the best thing since sliced bread. Of course she does - that's her mother. But in my intense anger at my ex I was sorely tempted to tell my SD some of the truly rotten things her mother has done.  Thank God my integrity prevented me from acting on that angry impulse. I would be sitting here today deeply ashamed of myself, and likely without ANY r/s with my SD.

So... .feel the emotions. But don't act on them without careful consideration.

Sounds like you need more practice feeling and expressing your anger (safely). Not me - I'm from NY.  We know how to do anger. 

[Sunfl0wer]

Darn it!  I lost my mojo for the anger now , 

Thanks tho... .

Ok... .one more try... .not so heated now... .

I AM angry that, "I had his back" at any cost.  I had SD back, at any cost.  She lied to my face.  She lied to my exBF and my S face.  She used us for ill gain.  She staged fake illnesses, false accusations.  She independently conjured up ways to harm us for her delusional reality that we were her enemy.  I am angry that she could not think for herself.  That she looked down on us that last year.  That her mother's narcissism became her own narcissism.  I am angry that she did not let me save her!  I am angry that she was too stupid to see that what she was doing... .fighting our efforts... .was actually destroying her.  I am angry she tried to harm my pet.  I am angry she harmed my things in a way that no one could "prove" it.  I am angry she tormented my S in his sleep and when we weren't looking because she looked for covert ways to harm us.  I am angry she does not see the true value in human life and is capable of physically harming us and feels entitled to do so!  I am angry that she was covertly being emotionally abusive, through veiled threats, blackmail, and more and had her dad convinced she was a victim.  I am pissed off she ruined our r/s to abuse and control him further and more easily.  I am angry that she now has full access to hurt him.  And I am angry at HIM for ___ing creating this situation, ___ing nurturing this situation, and ___ing destroying her life just so he could use her for his own narcissistic supply and because he is afraid she won't love him if he doesn't give in to her abuse!

*sigh*

I said it! :'( . I feel both these together somehow.

[jhkbuzz]

Feels good and sad at the same time; I understand. 

I went into my r/s with the best intentions too... .to love, to protect, to stand firm.  And I thought I was strong enough - both in the intensity of my love and my inner strength, to overcome whatever came my way.

I was wrong. The dysfunction in my ex's family reaches back for generations and manifests itself throughout her family in different ways. It's intense and pervasive and I'm no match for it. I'm not the "hero"; I was not sent to "save" anyone. I should have never agreed to it in the first place.

You, either. Here's to looking for a reciprocal relationship full of love, health and wholeness! 

[Sunfl0wer]

Feels good and sad at the same time; I understand. 

I went into my r/s with the best intentions too... .to love, to protect, to stand firm.  And I thought I was strong enough - both in the intensity of my love and my inner strength, to overcome whatever came my way.

I was wrong. The dysfunction in my ex's family reaches back for generations and manifests itself throughout her family in different ways. It's intense and pervasive and I'm no match for it. I'm not the "hero"; I was not sent to "save" anyone. I should have never agreed to it in the first place.

You, either. Here's to looking for a reciprocal relationship full of love, health and wholeness! 

:'(

Thank you for listening.  They never listened to me growing up.  Then in this r/s I somehow became invisible. 

I feel like I failed at something.  I failed at saving myself or something.  I feel like it is my fault that I'm not healed.  I don't say these things... .because they do not make sense to my mind... .and it is not how I typically feel... .but they make sense to my heart.

I was posting about RA elsewhere.  I now see this is certainly projection.  I am still not fully embracing and accepting all of me.

Not sure how to tap into that.

(Ugh! :P. This is YOUR post!)

[jhkbuzz]

Feels good and sad at the same time; I understand.  

I went into my r/s with the best intentions too... .to love, to protect, to stand firm.  And I thought I was strong enough - both in the intensity of my love and my inner strength, to overcome whatever came my way.

I was wrong. The dysfunction in my ex's family reaches back for generations and manifests itself throughout her family in different ways. It's intense and pervasive and I'm no match for it. I'm not the "hero"; I was not sent to "save" anyone. I should have never agreed to it in the first place.

You, either. Here's to looking for a reciprocal relationship full of love, health and wholeness!  

:'(

Thank you for listening.  They never listened to me growing up.  Then in this r/s I somehow became invisible.  

I feel like I failed at something.  I failed at saving myself or something.  I feel like it is my fault that I'm not healed.  I don't say these things... .because they do not make sense to my mind... .and it is not how I typically feel... .but they make sense to my heart.

I was posting about RA elsewhere.  I now see this is certainly projection.  I am still not fully embracing and accepting all of me.

Not sure how to tap into that.

(Ugh! :P. This is YOUR post!)

No "ugh"! You helped me realize that my sadness is a normal, maternal sadness. Life is sad sometimes; I'm beginning to see that there's nothing wrong or unusual about the sadness I feel when I see my SD.  I would imagine that it will pass with time, just like the sadness over my ex lessens over time.

I feel like I failed at something.  I failed at saving myself or something.  I feel like it is my fault that I'm not healed. I don't say these things... .because they do not make sense to my mind... .and it is not how I typically feel... .but they make sense to my heart.

There's a wonderful quote I'd like to share with you, and then explain why I'm sharing:



"We do not grow absolutely, chronologically. We grow sometimes in one dimension, and not in another; unevenly. We grow partially. We are relative. We are mature in one realm, childish in another. The past, present, and future mingle and pull us backward, forward, or fix us in the present. We are made up of layers, cells, constellations. ~ Anais Nin"

One of the things I'm identifying in therapy is some of the long held, self-defeating beliefs that I've dragged into adulthood from my childhood. My T is wonderful and, although it doesn't happen very often, she will point out to me when something that I say sounds like the 'thought of a child.' She knows me well enough at this point; she knows I'm intelligent and reasoned; so when I come out with something that sounds too "absolute" or "black and white," she points it out to me.  These unexamined childhood beliefs are the ones I need to pull out of the deep, dark closet to examine and discard, if necessary. They were formed by a child in a difficult situation and they are probably no longer true and hold me back in some way. They were likely part of the reason I stayed in a toxic relationship longer than I should have.

You haven't "failed."  And the way you describe this feeling - that it doesn't make sense to your mind ("intellectually" - suggests that this is a childhood belief that needs to be examined in the present.

[Sunfl0wer]

Thank you again jhkbuzz!


By the way... .about ten years ago... .in looking up random inspiring quotes... .I discovered Anais Nin.  I love her words!

I like the idea of identifying, "the thought of a child."  I am adding that to my journey!