2 Weeks after b/u and strict n/c. She sent the following to my parents.

[rotiroti]

Hi,

New member here. After a tumultuous friendship of 8 years and a relationship of <1 year, I walked out the door. I have never felt so loved one day and unwanted the next. I moved across the country to be with her, only to be belittled and told that she hated coming home to me. I'm old enough (30M) to know that this isn't healthy and I want to be pragmatic despite all the hurt. After learning about BPD, I realized that I had always seen the   over the years, but chose to overlook them. Hell, I thought people can change, because I have over the years.

Reliving the pain of her giving the engagement ring back. Does she not realize it was her idea for me to move and her who brought up the ideas of marriage? Sure it was fast, but we knew other for so long! Or so I had thought  I hated the way she seemed to grow with hate at my presence. I left a kind and non-judgmental note saying good bye and went completely n/c. Blocked phone numbers, social media, everything. It's been a rough 2 weeks but I'm starting to heal. I sitll love and care for her, but I just know it in my heart that it's the best decision for both of us.

Recently I found out she had written to my parents and unfortunately they don't know about her deeply. They genuinely love her (one of the reasons i was so happy to be married) and were expecting grandchildren soon and everything! I shouldn't have looked at the letter, but i did anyway. It was a sweet and sad letter, but i wanted your opinion. Is it overstepping boundaries? Does it sound manipulative? I wanted a neutral 3rd party view on it. Was I the bad guy? Did i walk out too pre-maturely?

Warning: there might be triggers in the letter and names have been altered of course:




Dear Mr & Mrs. X

I apologize for not contacting you sooner, it has been so difficult these days. I am so sorry that X and I were not able to work things out. Things were moving so fast and I just wanted it to slow down...

I like to think that i am patient, but when it comes to the people clsoest to me, I am most impatient. Most likely this is why i have been so stubborn to live on my own. I haven't always made the right choices, but prided myself on making my own choices. I'm sure it was difficult for a generous soul like X to be around a woman like this.

Also, I like to think I am spontaneous and fearless, bt when it comes to the biggest life choices, I am actually very rigid, stubborn, and fearful. And when it came to becoming engaged, I became extremely fearful, especially since X and I had not dated in close proximity. I guess X was more fearless than I.

In the end, I probably just sound like I'm just making a bunch of excuses. I apologize for not having the courage to say I wasn't ready when X first proposed. I apologize for hurting your son when I gave the ring back.

I should have had been honest from the start and I should have said I wasn't ready. I thought I'd learn to be ready for marriage, but I found myself growing negatively instead of lovingly over th days. Although I was honest with my feelings to myself and X, I really hate that I hurt him.

I respect both of you so much, and I hope the best for X. I truly believe he will be someone great in this world.

[Lifewriter16]

It sounds to me like she is taking responsibility for her actions. It doesn't sound manipulative to me. Nor does it sound like she is blaming you. Do you blame yourself?

Lifewriter

[rotiroti]

It sounds to me like she is taking responsibility for her actions. It doesn't sound manipulative to me. Nor does it sound like she is blaming you. Do you blame yourself?

Lifewriter

Hey Lifewriter,

That was the impression I received from the letter as well. I felt like it was both of us that wasn't ready to take things to the next level, but I can't help but feel guilty after reading this letter. Yes, boundaries were crossed and yes I felt abused and mistreated, but I did leave after our first fight. I was really shocked when she used all of my vulnerable secrets as hurtful words when she went off.

I have been struggling with n/c and I truly want to forgive her as well. I think the r/s is over, but I wouldn't want anyone to have lingering pain or guilt.

Thoughts?

[Lifewriter16]

Hi there Neveragainthanks,

I know so little about your situation that I feel it would be unfair to make suggestions. However, ultimately, we can not save anyone else from their own pain, we can only do something about our own. That's a lesson it's taken me 50 years to learn.

• What is your own guilt about?
  
  
• Are there any parallels between your experience in this relationship and in previous relationships including childhood ones



• Do you feel able to forgive yourself and express your own pain around this and previous losses?

My apologies if this feels like the Spanish Inquisition - just take what's useful and ignore the rest!

Lifewriter

[rotiroti]

Hi there Neveragainthanks,

I know so little about your situation that I feel it would be unfair to make suggestions. However, ultimately, we can not save anyone else from their own pain, we can only do something about our own. That's a lesson it's taken me 50 years to learn.

• What is your own guilt about?
  
  
• Are there any parallels between your experience in this relationship and in previous relationships including childhood ones



• Do you feel able to forgive yourself and express your own pain around this and previous losses?

My apologies if this feels like the Spanish Inquisition - just take what's useful and ignore the rest!

Lifewriter

Thank you for sharing your personal insights on life lessons. Logically I know it to be true, but my heart wants to run back to her! Long story short, my best friend I had what I would call the most intense relationship in my life to date for about 8 months. We'd known each other forever and it just added to the gravity of it all. We were head over heels and at her behest I moved and proposed (all of which seemed perfect). I always suspected she had BPD traits, but we also had many in common. Similar culture, tastes in life, and goals.

My guilt is... Did I leave too early without giving it a try? It was 5 days of silent treatment mixed in with criticisms. Now I'm a grown man i can handle criticisms, but man these were ones that cut to the core. I mean little secrets I shared with her YEARS ago were all coming up. And I couldn't do anything right. Even the way I plugged in the TV was wrong. This was literally after 5 days of pure bliss of being together. I knew something had to change and said we needed to talk and we agreed to take things slower and if she wanted space, I would go home until her lisencing exam was completed. She took it the wrong way as I was breaking up with her and was angry, saying someone who runs away at home is not someone who she wants to be with. The next morning she reminded me of our talk, gave the ring back, and told me how much she hated coming home to me. Somehow all wrongs in the world were due to my fault. She did, however, point out many things I needed to work on as well, like being a better communicator and less passive.

The message was clear -- that this was over. I packed my things and left while she was at work. I felt like it was the right choice at the time but now i'm wondering if I had acted too rashly.

My guilt is this: Did I bail at what was apparently nothing? I know boundaries were crossed, but it really was the only time it happened, albeit it was a 4 day long event.

Parallels to previous relationships: This is the only time I've felt the push/pull dynamics in a relationship. This is also not the first time I lived with a partner. I thought it was normal to help and support each other. For her exam, I would cook and clean to ease the burden of the everyday, but she did not like them one bit and were very critical. In our talk, I agreed to stop doing these things.

Forgiving myself: I felt right driving away. The note I wrote was honest and non-judgemental. I knew it was for the best for both of us... .now I can't help but feel ridden with guilt for being so harsh with n/c and leaving. Another thing I'm guilty of is that I left a stable and kind r/s to be with this woman (she does not know about my previous r/s), and can't help but feel how much pain I've caused to 2 people.

I feel selfish and rightly so.

[Lifewriter16]

N/C is a technique rather than a rule. For myself, I would rather know that I had tried all the avenues available to me than have regrets later on. I know many people wouldn't agree, because they see the patterns and they see the likely outcome of my decisions, but I've always needed to learn my own lessons. What do you need to do to get peace with this situation? What is your desired outcome?

Lifewriter

[rotiroti]

N/C is a technique rather than a rule. For myself, I would rather know that I had tried all the avenues available to me than have regrets later on. I know many people wouldn't agree, because they see the patterns and they see the likely outcome of my decisions, but I've always needed to learn my own lessons. What do you need to do to get peace with this situation? What is your desired outcome?

Lifewriter

I think peace for me would be to tell her that I forgive her and still love her. I'm afraid I'm still too weak to just end it at that, I think deep down a part of me wants to run back to her and tell her everything is OK and that it was just our first fight.

I'm in the similar camp as you, I would be torn by the regret of 'what ifs,' but with me... i'm scared that she would use it as an opening salvo to rip me apart. I still have get anxiety when my phone rings (before i blocked her)

[Loosestrife]

Sounds like she is cleansing her conscience

[rotiroti]

Sounds like she is cleansing her conscience

I think so too, can't believe we were engaged just a few days ago!

[rotiroti]

Is it possible to erase this thread? I feel like I've put too much identifying material no here

[FannyB]

I think there's some hope for this girl longer term as she has admitted her part in the relationship breakdown - whatever her motivation. I would have loved that level of insight from my ex as would many on these boards I suspect.

Fanny

[patientandclear]

My ex like yours feels that we went too fast and that it was me who wanted that. In fact, he set the pace and when I asked if we were going too fast, said he was holding himself back from going even faster (proposing, etc.)

After a lot of time has passed and I've read a lot and heard many other stories, I now see that what he was doing was trying to please me. He thought I wanted X so he fervently professed X. When he got panicky about engulfment, this felt like oppression to him.  "Going slow" is also now his watchword. Unfortunately, slow or fast, the minute the connection verges into true intimacy he feels a threat to his self definition and pushes away. It isn't about the speed, it's about feeling incredibly threatened and oppressed by an intimate willing partner, AND feelings of deep disappointment when that partner is critical or unhappy or unresponsive or slightly less than perfectly pleasing or pleased ... .Or when the partner's facial expression reveals boredom or sarcasm or ... .Or when the partner should have known that s/he wanted herbal not caffeinated tea.

Her letter is as self-aware and apologetic as any I've heard of. I don't see any manipulation. I have the same regrets you're feeling about having reacted so harshly to my ex's first freak out. I didn't know what I was experiencing so I'm not self-critical, but it is true that we mis-read these episodes as deep rejection, when they are "just" mental illness playing out.

Tough stuff. I understand why you are considering contact. At the same time, the very tough issues are not going to go away. The destructive impulse is still there. Would you be able to manage episodes like her ST and her disappointment with your caretaking, chronically? You might check out the lessons on the Staying board to explore those questions.

[rotiroti]

My ex like yours feels that we went too fast and that it was me who wanted that. In fact, he set the pace and when I asked if we were going too fast, said he was holding himself back from going even faster (proposing, etc.)

After a lot of time has passed and I've read a lot and heard many other stories, I now see that what he was doing was trying to please me. He thought I wanted X so he fervently professed X. When he got panicky about engulfment, this felt like oppression to him.  "Going slow" is also now his watchword. Unfortunately, slow or fast, the minute the connection verges into true intimacy he feels a threat to his self definition and pushes away. It isn't about the speed, it's about feeling incredibly threatened and oppressed by an intimate willing partner, AND feelings of deep disappointment when that partner is critical or unhappy or unresponsive or slightly less than perfectly pleasing or pleased ... .Or when the partner's facial expression reveals boredom or sarcasm or ... .Or when the partner should have known that s/he wanted herbal not caffeinated tea.

Her letter is as self-aware and apologetic as any I've heard of. I don't see any manipulation. I have the same regrets you're feeling about having reacted so harshly to my ex's first freak out. I didn't know what I was experiencing so I'm not self-critical, but it is true that we mis-read these episodes as deep rejection, when they are "just" mental illness playing out.

Tough stuff. I understand why you are considering contact. At the same time, the very tough issues are not going to go away. The destructive impulse is still there. Would you be able to manage episodes like her ST and her disappointment with your caretaking, chronically? You might check out the lessons on the Staying board to explore those questions.

Wow. Thank you so much for the thought out and kind reply... you put into words many things I wanted to say. I think deep down the reason I took firm action was the fact that I knew timing/pace is not the issue here... thank you for recognizing that

I think my dating experiences gave me guidance and insight into realizing that this will not work in the long run. It's a sad realization when I still feel tremendous love and care for her... .Thanks to the information here and replies like yours, I am starting to understand that her returning the ring and the criticisms were not meant to hurt me personally... I can see that she has lots of pain inside and my last wish is to exacerbate that. "just the mental illness playing out"... i like that description.



patientandclear, great insight about engulfment. My ex would be triggered by the littlest things, you mentioned the tea thing... mine was triggered by making the wrong type of lentils one day... .gosh

One  more thing about possibly staying for the long run.  She was using some personal secrets I've only shared with her as ammunition for her attacks. I don't think I could have a r/s with someone who would do that, BPD or not. Is there a chance she can get better if she refuses therapy? She is currently 29F and high functioning if that means anything.

I will be sure to check out the lessons. Thank you for offering me your insight, you have given me much to think about. Have a great day and please don't hesitate to share any further insights. they're greatly apprecaited

edit: you mentioned alot of time has passed, and i can see from the way you reflect on the experience that it really does get better. How long did it take for you to recover?

[patientandclear]

Yes, do hang onto that insight that some of the behaviors (using your secrets you entrusted to her against you), though "just" due to mental illness, are per se damaging, regardless of cause. It is easy to get sentimental about the good things and the sense that they are doing their best. That's fine and may blunt the fury or bitterness that otherwise would be warranted. But it doesn't make it OK, or viable. AND, to a great extent, I think they know that. So if we ignore it, we can lose our self-respect and theirs as well.

There is a great article on this site that I overlooked for a long time, called Why We Struggle In Our Relationships. Check it out if you have not. It has a strong reminder that we owe it to the BPD person as well as ourselves to not just tolerate or accept the destructive BPD behaviors. Article says that those can be rebuffed warmly and lovingly. I am still trying to learn how to do that.

It's been four long years for me since this started. We went through a few different configurations and episodes. We've had some spectacular conflict and long periods of estrangement. It's still painful. And hard to figure out what I want and what is best. I have a greater degree of understanding and acceptance about the "why," and am somewhat better about not taking it personally when he does things that just shred my trust and nearly break our connection. But ... .The connection is still damaged. And I think we're a comparative success story.

Very best wishes. You're on the right track. Don't doubt your instincts.

[rotiroti]

Yes, do hang onto that insight that some of the behaviors (using your secrets you entrusted to her against you), though "just" due to mental illness, are per se damaging, regardless of cause. It is easy to get sentimental about the good things and the sense that they are doing their best. That's fine and may blunt the fury or bitterness that otherwise would be warranted. But it doesn't make it OK, or viable. AND, to a great extent, I think they know that. So if we ignore it, we can lose our self-respect and theirs as well.

There is a great article on this site that I overlooked for a long time, called Why We Struggle In Our Relationships. Check it out if you have not. It has a strong reminder that we owe it to the BPD person as well as ourselves to not just tolerate or accept the destructive BPD behaviors. Article says that those can be rebuffed warmly and lovingly. I am still trying to learn how to do that.

It's been four long years for me since this started. We went through a few different configurations and episodes. We've had some spectacular conflict and long periods of estrangement. It's still painful. And hard to figure out what I want and what is best. I have a greater degree of understanding and acceptance about the "why," and am somewhat better about not taking it personally when he does things that just shred my trust and nearly break our connection. But ... .The connection is still damaged. And I think we're a comparative success story.

Very best wishes. You're on the right track. Don't doubt your instincts.

Thank you truly from the bottom of my heart: I read the article (and here it is for anyone interested https://bpdfamily.com/content/why-we-struggle-in-relationships) and wow. It was a cathartic read!  I believed that 8 years was too much to throw away, but the article reminded me that it's not a time that is wasted... .and sometimes the best option to stop the suffering is to move on.

Thank you for sharing your perspective and your story with me. I'm reminded that regular interaction isn't a landmine field to be navigated and that empathy and kindness is very real in the world. (Sorry for being sentimental, that article really spoke to me )

[FannyB]

Thank you truly from the bottom of my heart: I read the article (and here it is for anyone interested https://bpdfamily.com/content/why-we-struggle-in-relationships) and wow. It was a cathartic read!  I believed that 8 years was too much to throw away, but the article reminded me that it's not a time that is wasted... .and sometimes the best option to stop the suffering is to move on.

Agreed - great article. I now understand why I lasted so long compared to her other boyfriends. I bought into all the fantasy stuff - yet maintained some boundaries regarding timescales. Effectively I was dangling a carrot in front of the donkey - leading her on yet never quite giving her what she wanted. Thus she neither felt abandoned nor engulfed.     Still trying to work out if that makes me a success or a failure!  

[rotiroti]

fannyB, the fact that you're healing and able to reflect back on the whole interaction...

I think that kind of growth is a huge success!

[apollotech]

And when it came to becoming engaged, I became extremely fearful... .I thought I'd learn to be ready for marriage, but I found myself growing negatively instead of lovingly over th days.

Hi never,

To me that sounds like classic BPD engulfment and then her applying one or more maladapted tools (What was the negativity?) to generate distance between y'all. (This is not to say that her actions/behaviors were consciencely, maliciously directed. She might not understand her own emotions/thoughts nor what drives them.) How was her behavior before the engagement? Did you notice a change in her after the engagement?

[rotiroti]

And when it came to becoming engaged, I became extremely fearful... .I thought I'd learn to be ready for marriage, but I found myself growing negatively instead of lovingly over th days.

Hi never,

To me that sounds like classic BPD engulfment and then her applying one or more maladapted tools (What was the negativity?) to generate distance between y'all. (This is not to say that her actions/behaviors were consciencely, maliciously directed. She might not understand her own emotions/thoughts nor what drives them.) How was her behavior before the engagement? Did you notice a change in her after the engagement?

Hi Apollo,

thank you for your response and reading through the letter, it was something that I still struggle with. I read it time to time and it makes me question if she really had BPD traits or not -- moving in and getting engaged that quickly could be stressful to anyone! However I now realize that I tend to overlook red flags and  actions, and boy the hurtful things she did and said were extreme!

As to your question, yes her behavior changed drastically like a light switch although it took a few days. For the first 3 or 4 days following the engagement it seemed perfect. We were content to be around each other and there was lots of affection. Heck I remember going to her friend's bday party and she couldn't get enough of showing her ring around or calling her friends that she was engaged.

Then... .on day 5 or so it was as if a light switch had turned. First she was angry that I made dinner, then angry that I had allergies and didn't 'take care of my self', and was somehow furious on our way back from the hospital (her grandfather wasn't feeling well). Somehow I was the source of everything that was wrong in the world and she became extreme distant and cold. It kept getting worse with her telling me she felt suffocated on Day 7 (Thursday) so we agreed to work on giving each other space and slept in different rooms. Friday morning she woke up to remind me of our talk from the day before (not meanwhile telling me i had morning breath)... .by this time I had chekced out and left the room, she followed me and gave me back my ring. The message was clear as day.

i packed up and left while she was at work after leaving a letter (i was thinking of posting this). Went no contact and this was her letter a week or two later to my parents. There's been some calls which I've ignored and her dad actually wrote to my parents as well (they know each other). I was worried it was going to be a scathing letter but isntead he validated my side. felt good to know that the love i brought with me 2000 miles across the country was real and earnest.

whew!

sorry i went on a bit

[apollotech]

Then... .on day 5 or so it was as if a light switch had turned. First she was angry that I made dinner, then angry that I had allergies and didn't 'take care of my self', and was somehow furious on our way back from the hospital (her grandfather wasn't feeling well). Somehow I was the source of everything that was wrong in the world and she became extreme distant and cold. It kept getting worse with her telling me she felt suffocated on Day 7 (Thursday) so we agreed to work on giving each other space and slept in different rooms. Friday morning she woke up to remind me of our talk from the day before (not meanwhile telling me i had morning breath)... .by this time I had chekced out and left the room, she followed me and gave me back my ring. The message was clear as day.

Hi never,

I am sorry that you went through all that. When things are the best and the future seems to be the brightest, a pwBPD can fall apart. The scenario/story that you relayed, unfortunately, is told over and over again on these boards. A pwBPD is just not wired for closeness/intimacy as they cannot self-regulate their emotions. Then there is the whole engulfment issue. Losing one's "self," hell, I'd run too.

Yes, you're correct, even normal people get pre-marital jitters, but those jitters, in the large majority of the cases, don't terminate the wedding, and certainly not the relationship. Because her actions/behaviors/responses were so "extreme," that tells me that something is not right with her. I am not saying that it is BPD; although, to me, that is what it appears to be. Perhaps she has a very serious commitment issue? One thing is certain, it destroys rather than preserves. Whatever it is, it is definitely not healthy, and it definitely doesn't warrant a long-term commitment.

As you know, I, like you, was friends with my BPDexgf before the romance began. When the intimacy entered the picture, in my situation, her engulfment set in and the relationship was destroyed. Once I became a trigger, she'd trigger even over the phone. It was a disaster; I was experiencing mass confusion, having never heard of BPD. Her push/pulls really ripped me apart emotionally; there was never again stability once her engulfment was triggered. After a few months of the crazy making and with me throwing everything I could think of into the problem in an attempt to straighten us out, I had an epiphany one night, by her making, and walked away from the relationship. That was in early Feb. She has not heard a peep out of me since then, but she is still texting me, although not as frequently as she was in the beginning.

Take care of yourself in all of this. You are the only person that you're responsible for, and, ultimately, that is the only control that you exert within the chaos.

[rotiroti]

Yes, you're correct, even normal people get pre-marital jitters, but those jitters, in the large majority of the cases, don't terminate the wedding, and certainly not the relationship. Because her actions/behaviors/responses were so "extreme," that tells me that something is not right with her. I am not saying that it is BPD; although, to me, that is what it appears to be. Perhaps she has a very serious commitment issue? One thing is certain, it destroys rather than preserves. Whatever it is, it is definitely not healthy, and it definitely doesn't warrant a long-term commitment.

It was just so frustrating, it was ultimately my decision but she seemed to have forgotten I had uprooted my life to be with her, at her beshest no less. It was confusing after the return of the ring, when we talked while I was on the road, she told me she can't wait to have another go slowly. I was so confused from all the push/pull. I knew I had to put my foot down.

It's funny, her dad use to drop warnings to me all the time. He was split black most of the time, but she still insisted we hang out. He told me his daughter will throw tantrums, but will always come back crying... .and that if we're having problems now, it will only get worse after marriage. Another thing I remember him telling me was to leave the house during fights and returning when things have cooled off. I realize now that's how he's been handling her all these years and couldn't help but feel some sympathy for him

As you know, I, like you, was friends with my BPDexgf before the romance began. When the intimacy entered the picture, in my situation, her engulfment set in and the relationship was destroyed. Once I became a trigger, she'd trigger even over the phone. It was a disaster; I was experiencing mass confusion, having never heard of BPD. Her push/pulls really ripped me apart emotionally; there was never again stability once her engulfment was triggered. After a few months of the crazy making and with me throwing everything I could think of into the problem in an attempt to straighten us out, I had an epiphany one night, by her making, and walked away from the relationship. That was in early Feb. She has not heard a peep out of me since then, but she is still texting me, although not as frequently as she was in the beginning.

I'm sorry you had to go through that and thank you for sharing your story. It's incredibly hard not to lose a lover, but also a good friend. I can understand why when I was just a friend the lack of intense intimacy never triggered her

Take care of yourself in all of this. You are the only person that you're responsible for, and, ultimately, that is the only control that you exert within the chaos.

Amen! Thanks for your input Apollo, it feels great to start the weekend on such a positive note!

[apollotech]

... .it was ultimately my decision... .

Hi never,

Yes, you left by your own choice, but weren't you forced into that? What other viable alternatives were available to you at the time? Was she willingly making a positive/constructive effort to work with you in rectifying the issue(s)? Be careful of the responsibility that you take on here.

After reading what her father had told you, count your blessings that you got out when you did. He certainly validated the fact that your ex has severe mental issues and has had them for a very long time.

[rotiroti]

... .it was ultimately my decision... .

Hi never,

Yes, you left by your own choice, but weren't you forced into that? What other viable alternatives were available to you at the time? Was she willingly making a positive/constructive effort to work with you in rectifying the issue(s)? Be careful of the responsibility that you take on here.

After reading what her father had told you, count your blessings that you got out when you did. He certainly validated the fact that your ex has severe mental issues and has had them for a very long time.

You've got a point there, I truly feel like there was nothing left to work on. Just to make it worse, she wanted to give the ring back and try to take things slower? Oy?

it's just that after a month out... .I do ruminate. They do get better, but can't stop to wonder if I could've tried harder or done something different.