Staring into the rabbit hole...

[Ceruleanblue]

Just when I was thinking how good things have become, BPDh has started to slip back into some old habits. He seems to be saying a lot of the same things he was saying last year before he walked out. Of course this sets off my fear of abandonment, which I know I have. How could I not, considering my past? He knows this, and I almost think he says/does things just to scare me. It's like a game of keeping me off balance.

It's like his thinking gets messed up, and he started to view "us" in a very negative light. He won't take responsibility for things he says that are clearly just awful, yet he will get angry at things I say that he twists to make into something ugly. Tonight for example, I was complaining about how my son has been treating me, and I said that both of our kids have acted crappy at times, and wondered if we'd had kids together how'd they have turned out. He ignored me(he uses silent treatment a lot), then he ended up angry because I mentioned HIS kids. His adult kids are "off limits" he says and he again asked me to never mention them. What? I didn't say anything awful about his kids, just said both sets of our kids have acted crappy to us at times, and how disappointed I am right now in my son.

I'm so sick, sick, sick of him telling me what I can say or do. Of him never believing what I say is true to me. I believe his feelings, and allow him to have them. MY feelings however are not okay, and my feelings are insulting to him? His views are unchangeable, there is no give in his initial view of something, EVER. Circumstances or motive, or intent, all mean nothing to him if explained. It's just weird. For me, intent is huge. If you hurt me, but you say you didn't mean to, my FEELINGS about it change. Not his. His view is one way, and things are all or nothing, and totally black and white.

I'd been so happy that things were getting so much better, but it now feels like he's slipping back down the rabbit hole. I needed him today, that was my first mistake. I can't even TALK to him if I've had a bad day. I get that I can get those needs met elsewhere, but I always, always forget that I can't share with him. It just feels natural to tell him what's going on, but then he gets set off. ME feeling badly about something, anything, sets him off. How unfair is that? I can't always just paste a smile on, and be happy just to suit him.

It feels like the double standards and criticism and negative thinking have come back, and right at the time when I'm also having issue with my son. It's weird but BPDh seems like a shark who smells blood in the water. When he knows I'm down or having issues with something, he goes in for the kill. Says mean things, and kicks me when I'm down. The exact opposite you'd expect from a friend or spouse.

I was having issues with my son, and it became all about HIS KIDS, again! Just because I said all our kids have acted crappy at times. I was only trying to get him to empathize. How hilarious. He's unable to empathize, at all. I wonder at times if he's sociopathic. He seems to get off on hurting me. Emotionally, and sexually. I only mentioned his kids because he's been hurt by his kids since I've known him, and I thought he'd then be able to relate how I'm hurting over my son now. Nope, he chose to get angry at me instead.

He is making wild blanket statements again too like "all I do is hurt you", or "we don't fit together". I don't view things like that at all. Yeah, he hurts me sometimes, but things have been so much better lately. He also says it's "one step forward and ten steps back",  and when I asked for clarification(because he tends to blame me), he said with "us". I take blame when it's mine, but I will no longer take blame that is not mine. This wasn't an "us" issue to me, this was a BPD issue. I guess thereby making it also my issue as he was projecting onto me.

I almost never get super frustrated at him, but I got so hurt and frustrated that I threw a shoe at him. My aim usually stinks, but he actually had to block it. I hate that I did that, and I hate that I get continually blamed after HE takes exception to something I say or do, but was actually innocent. I hate that I was the one hurting and again it became all about HIM, and HIS KIDS. I'm tired of trying to calmly talk and explain to him how things he said hurt me, and him just not caring. My feelings mean nothing to him, but I'm expected to validate all his feelings now. He learned that recently in DBT, but I've been validating his feelings for two years now! I guess he doesn't realize that he needs to learn to validate my feelings too. It's just all HIM, HIM, HIM.

I'm shamefaced that I threw the shoe at him, but I have to admit I don't feel that badly. I know myself well enough to know I'd never hit him, or hurt him. Heck, I even think before I say anything to him(I have to for self preservation). He's gotten physical with me several times over the years, but not since we've been reconciled. I'm afraid he'll play off my throwing the shoe at him as me being this horribly abusive person. He LOVES to play the victim, and play like he is all innocent.

What can I do to stop this from spiraling again. I spent all this weekend making sure HE had a good weekend, which meant I was on the back on his motorcycle, and he knows what a huge compromise that is for me. I am sick of trying to keep him happy, when he's never very happy anyway. I feel like everyone I'm surrounded with has anger issues, and is so moody. When do I get to ever have a bad day, or have a bad mood? I can't because if I do, they just get awful. Especially BPDh.

This thing with my son was bad enough to deal with, but now I have to deal with BPDh acting all dysregulated. I guess I need to walk away before throwing shoes at him again. What is funny is that I was on my way our the door, and he got that last hateful blip in, accusing me of something I wasn't doing, and I just reacted. I guess I wanted him to THINK, or remember the shoe whizzing by his head before he says hateful stuff to me next time. It won't work, I know, as he just never thinks before he says things, or he just doesn't care.

His hatefulness, and constant running me down, and negativity seem to make me react in ways I normally would not. How do I help in getting us back on track? Especially when I'm hurting over this recent stuff going on with my son.

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[Ceruleanblue]

And how do I react, or what boundary do I set around his saying "never speak of my kids again"? It's impractical, unfair, a double standard, and just seems weird to me. He has no right to say what I can, and can't talk about? How do I set a boundary or stand up against this?

Plus, it feels like he's using everything he is learning in DBT to invalidate me, or he uses all this terminology as if he's now superior and he's trying to figure ME out! I've known all this stuff for years, but he's coming at me, as if I'm the one with the issues. Is he not getting anything out of DBT now? He was for a while, but now it feels like he's projecting again... .

[Butterfly12]

Wow. They all sound the same. Same words, same actions, same.

It's incredibly sad.

I'm so sorry. My husband is the same. It is all my fault he was arrested for physically abusing me. And anytime I talk about my own personal anger in my life, (I've been a mother since I graduated college... .which wasn't exactly how I planned my life to go... .) he hears my accepting some accountability and then says: OH. Well. I also would like you to take responsibility for X, Y, Z. Which are never mine... .but sometimes admittedly I will take it. Yes. Fine. Just to make this stop. (But it never stops. It just keeps going... .doesn't it?)

It's incredible to read about another man who does this. I don't know if your husband does this... .but the saying "his kids are off limits... ." made me think about how my husband's entire history seems to be "off limits." He will not openly talk or share anything. But then gets angry at me for "never asking," which couldn't be further from the truth. I asked for years... .and he wouldn't tell me anything. At least not honestly.

[waverider]

And how do I react, or what boundary do I set around his saying "never speak of my kids again"? It's impractical, unfair, a double standard, and just seems weird to me. He has no right to say what I can, and can't talk about? How do I set a boundary or stand up against this?

He has a right to say it, just as you have a right to completely ignore it. Neither of you can control the other, unless the other allows it.

If you feel the need to speak of his kids then you do. If he then has an issue with that and behaves in a certain way. Then you set your boundary to deal with those behavioral consequences. Not about the mentioning of the kids, that is simply the issue that triggered the behavior.

The idea is not to set boundaries to cope with issues, as they can be interchanged, it is to deal with the behavior that arises regardless of the issue that triggers it.

[Cat Familiar]

I hear you, Ceruleanblue. They really don't have a concept of "fair play" or "fair fighting" and if you do, they take advantage of you.

Lately I've been working on "not caring" if my husband is upset or having a bad day. He will have some insignificant issue and then the whole day is "bad." I used to think it was my responsibility to cheer him up, but no more. Now I ignore the verbal taunts like "you don't care" and it really frees me up. I'm beginning to agree with him that, "Yes, I don't really care about your transitory bad moods about inconsequential trivia. I'm just going to do what makes me happy and not try to be your cheerleader any more--it didn't work anyhow." Of course I only say that to myself.  

[Ceruleanblue]

Yes, it's almost like when I said both our kids have acted crappy at times, he heard something entirely different. He has such a hard time not twisting what I say to mean something totally awful. It's like he wants to vilify me. I worry that it's because then all the awful things his kids have said about me will be "true" to him. And yes, fair fighting does put me at a huge disadvantage. Huge.

There I was, hurting over how my son is behaving, and dealing with the depression of moving away from him(at BPDh's insistence, which he now denies... .this hurts and infuriates me), and then I also have BPDh mad over something trivial I said. Something I said thinking I could get a little empathy. He's been in my shoes, and he still doesn't understand, or care.

I'm sick of him rewriting the past to make himself look innocent. He'll admit he "couldn't live with my son anymore", but he totally blocks out throwing both my kids out the week prior to our move, or the fact that the month prior to our move when I didn't know what I'd do, he kept asking me to move with him. He gets angry when I remind him that he kept begging me to move with him. He kept being upset because I wouldn't just say "yes", and he kept asking. He's rewritten this of course, to make himself innocent.

I'll keep in mind to deal with the behavior that arises when he is triggered. I did tell him that it's pretty strange to be married to a man where I'm not even allowed to mention his kids! I told him I FEEL that he thinks I'm not good enough(in his mind) to mention them. He treats me like I'm a mass of flaws, but he'll defend their inexcusable actions to the end. Of course, he doesn't care how I feel, so I'm sure that meant nothing to him. He's always put those mean kids up on a pedestal, and where did that get him? He has no contact with two of them, due to them saying they wanted him out of their lives. It's hilarious that they call him toxic when all I've ever seen him do is kiss their butts. He would never treat them the way he does me. They seem just as disordered as he is, and he's totally enmeshed with them.

I'm sick of him saying negative things about our marriage, when for the last month or so things have been so, so much better. Does he just forget? Can he only focus on the bad? What does he get out of that? It's all just so frustrating. I'm sick of being blamed and judged. He's acting out, but I get blamed. So unfair.

I feel like the rug was pulled out from under me.

[waverider]

Lately I've been working on "not caring" if my husband is upset or having a bad day. He will have some insignificant issue and then the whole day is "bad." I used to think it was my responsibility to cheer him up, but no more. Now I ignore the verbal taunts like "you don't care" and it really frees me up. I'm beginning to agree with him that, "Yes, I don't really care about your transitory bad moods about inconsequential trivia. I'm just going to do what makes me happy and not try to be your cheerleader any more--it didn't work anyhow." Of course I only say that to myself.  

I wouldn't ignore it completely but i would certainly put a cap on it. How much you respond should depend on teh 'attitude' that goes with it and willingness to self help.

[Cat Familiar]

Lately I've been working on "not caring" if my husband is upset or having a bad day. He will have some insignificant issue and then the whole day is "bad." I used to think it was my responsibility to cheer him up, but no more. Now I ignore the verbal taunts like "you don't care" and it really frees me up. I'm beginning to agree with him that, "Yes, I don't really care about your transitory bad moods about inconsequential trivia. I'm just going to do what makes me happy and not try to be your cheerleader any more--it didn't work anyhow." Of course I only say that to myself.  

I wouldn't ignore it completely but i would certainly put a cap on it. How much you respond should depend on teh 'attitude' that goes with it and willingness to self help.

As a recovering co-dependent, I'm working on nurturing my "narcissism"--really my "healthy selfishness" and it's hard sometimes to detach with love. I see him suffering (needlessly I think) over trivial stuff and I'm learning to just let it be rather than try to intervene. It's hard.

[Ceruleanblue]

Yeah, I have to consciously work on not slipping into being codependent. It's hard because I want him to be happy, but his happiness was coming at too high a cost of my own happiness. It's such a hard thing to figure out sometimes. Plus, I found that the more I did, the more he just expected.

I'm putting some light on the fact that we do a lot of time doing things HE enjoys, but not much time doing things I like. I think he's finally seeing that there needs to be some balance, and he's been trying. Effort is huge with me. If he at least makes an attempt, that is worth a lot.

[lotus74]

Hey Creuleanblue

I just wanted to say hi and let you know that you are not alone.  Your post is hauntingly familiar.  I felt like you were telling my story.  I actually wrote a post a couple of days ago headed "will there ever be a time when my feelings matter?".  I completely relate.  I recieved some wonderful advice about validation and self care and preservation.

I hope that things have settled down for you!

[maxsterling]

He learned that recently in DBT, but I've been validating his feelings for two years now! I guess he doesn't realize that he needs to learn to validate my feelings too. It's just all HIM, HIM, HIM.

To me, this is BPD in a nutshell.  Boy, I know this frustration, all too well.  My wife will be in a sour mood about something that has nothing to do with me, call me up to complain, and then complain because I am "not validating her feelings and not helping her at all."  The reality is, she's in a bad mood and no amount of validating can help her.  Believe, me, I try.  But I know she learned the "validation" term from DBT.  I can assume she learned that she acts the way she does because she feels invalidated.  And now that is her excuse for acting out all the time - that she is invalidated, or that I am not soothing her correctly.  But the reality is, I can't think of a single time I have felt validated by her.  Like you, I take my bad days elsewhere, to people who will validate how I feel. 

I'm not sure I can give you advice, other than to just try to not let him bait you into his chaos.  No good can come from that.  Boundaries probably need to be enforced long before it ever gets to shoe-throwing.  I fail at that, too.  I stay way too long for her dysregulations until I say something that I am not proud of or wind up feeling physically distressed.

[waverider]

My wife will be in a sour mood about something that has nothing to do with me, call me up to complain, and then complain because I am "not validating her feelings and not helping her at all."  The reality is, she's in a bad mood and no amount of validating can help her.  Believe, me, I try.  ... .I can assume she learned that she acts the way she does because she feels invalidated.  And now that is her excuse for acting out all the time - that she is invalidated, or that I am not soothing her correctly. 

... such it is ...

I'm not sure I can give you advice, other than to just try to not let him bait you into his chaos.  No good can come from that.  Boundaries probably need to be enforced long before it ever gets to shoe-throwing.  I fail at that, too.  I stay way too long for her dysregulations until I say something that I am not proud of or wind up feeling physically distressed.

This is the path to follow and expect to trip up every now and then as we can't spent our lives constantly checking every footstep, otherwise our self belief becomes fragile. Just as long as you are generally heading in the right direction