Lack of loyalty from old friend

[Depression = 72% of members]

I had a chat with my old friend (we'll call him John) yesterday. We have been good friends for 20 years ago and he was one of the first friends I introduced to my ex when we were together (together about 1 year, broke up 2 years ago). I told the ex I no longer wanted any contact a year ago. The contact from her never stopped, and it escalated in June (2 phone calls without message, emails, birthday card with gift card). My counselor strongly suspects some stalking has been involved due to the timing of the phone calls, etc.

Back to the current situation with John. I have shared with him starting a year ago that I no longer wanted contact with her, didn't want her to know what I was up to, and didn't want to know what she was up to. I needed a complete break. He is still friends with her on Facebook. I have shared with him a couple of times since then (as recently as a month ago) that I didn't want anything getting back to her after knowing she has moved close to my city recently. I had asked him before to not be in contact with her shortly after we broke up so I could move on, which he didn't respond well to ("I don't want anyone telling me who I can and can't be friend with". I have stepped back some on our closeness ever since the break-up due to his reaction.

After the recent escalated contact from her, I asked if he had heard from her, and he told me she sent him a message on facebook wanting to get together. He knows that I didn't want him to do that, and it was discussed. He said he wouldn't initiate anything with her, but would meet her for a game of golf if she pursued it. Another mutual friend told John that I was afraid of her, and even if he doesn't understand why, he needs to back off out of respect for me. Apparently that did no good.

Anyway, I met with John yesterday to let him know that it concerns me he is in touch with her, my next step with her will be a restraining order if she starts contacting me again (I gave her one last warning), and I would feel a lot better if he stopped contact with her altogether. He then told me that he and another "friend" (who I'm realizing is as messed up as the ex is) both met my ex for lunch 2 weeks ago. He said he didn't initiate it, but she contacted the other "friend", who talked John into going along. He said I never came up in the conversation. I stated again that I am very concerned that he would be in contact with her and see her, and he said I didn't have anything to worry about and he wouldn't share anything.

John is becoming more of a control freak and I'm realizing doesn't value our friendship as much as I thought he did (or at least as much as I do). I feel very betrayed, and he didn't offer any assurances that he wouldn't see her again. When pushed as to what his motivation is for seeing her, he said she is a damaged soul and he doesn't want to shun anyone or cut them out of his life.

Just needed to get this off my chest. I hate to lose a long friendship, but I'm not feeling the loyalty from him and feel whatever he gets out of being in touch with her (I believe a feeling of being needed, feeling superior, etc) is more important to him. He and the ex are both gay, so that rules out some obvious questions from others.

[Janewhi]

I had a chat with my old friend (we'll call him John) yesterday. We have been good friends for 20 years ago and he was one of the first friends I introduced to my ex when we were together (together about 1 year, broke up 2 years ago). I told the ex I no longer wanted any contact a year ago. The contact from her never stopped, and it escalated in June (2 phone calls without message, emails, birthday card with gift card). My counselor strongly suspects some stalking has been involved due to the timing of the phone calls, etc.

Back to the current situation with John. I have shared with him starting a year ago that I no longer wanted contact with her, didn't want her to know what I was up to, and didn't want to know what she was up to. I needed a complete break. He is still friends with her on Facebook. I have shared with him a couple of times since then (as recently as a month ago) that I didn't want anything getting back to her after knowing she has moved close to my city recently. I had asked him before to not be in contact with her shortly after we broke up so I could move on, which he didn't respond well to ("I don't want anyone telling me who I can and can't be friend with". I have stepped back some on our closeness ever since the break-up due to his reaction.

After the recent escalated contact from her, I asked if he had heard from her, and he told me she sent him a message on facebook wanting to get together. He knows that I didn't want him to do that, and it was discussed. He said he wouldn't initiate anything with her, but would meet her for a game of golf if she pursued it. Another mutual friend told John that I was afraid of her, and even if he doesn't understand why, he needs to back off out of respect for me. Apparently that did no good.

Anyway, I met with John yesterday to let him know that it concerns me he is in touch with her, my next step with her will be a restraining order if she starts contacting me again (I gave her one last warning), and I would feel a lot better if he stopped contact with her altogether. He then told me that he and another "friend" (who I'm realizing is as messed up as the ex is) both met my ex for lunch 2 weeks ago. He said he didn't initiate it, but she contacted the other "friend", who talked John into going along. He said I never came up in the conversation. I stated again that I am very concerned that he would be in contact with her and see her, and he said I didn't have anything to worry about and he wouldn't share anything.

John is becoming more of a control freak and I'm realizing doesn't value our friendship as much as I thought he did (or at least as much as I do). I feel very betrayed, and he didn't offer any assurances that he wouldn't see her again. When pushed as to what his motivation is for seeing her, he said she is a damaged soul and he doesn't want to shun anyone or cut them out of his life.

Just needed to get this off my chest. I hate to lose a long friendship, but I'm not feeling the loyalty from him and feel whatever he gets out of being in touch with her (I believe a feeling of being needed, feeling superior, etc) is more important to him. He and the ex are both gay, so that rules out some obvious questions from others.

[Blimblam]

in my mind I always had a kind of "bro code," type rule of you don't screw your friends ex.  Or if you want to you got to talk it out with your friend blah blah and so on.  I eventually came to realize that this was just how I saw things and expected others to act. There are friends of mine that would probably respect that with me but they would screw some of their other friends gfs behind their back given the chance. Now the friend that would screw his friends gf behind his back wouldn't ever let his friend find out and in that way they could remain friends. The fact your friend is upfront and honest with you outright speaks volumes of his character initially. Also I think its important for you to realize that it is you that is putting your friend into a position of being forced to choose.  The choice is not between you and your ex the choice is of between obeying your demands of him or being the kind of guy he likes to see himself as, which is one that won't turn away a friend in need, as he possibly sees it.

its like theres what happens and theres what it means to each of us and why. Its entirely possible your friend doesn't comprehend the space you need to even be able to express this to him and feel safe or that it is even a safety concern of yours.

[Janewhi]

Thanks Blimblam. I have explained to John that I am afraid of her more than once during the past 2 years, and he says I don't have anything to be afraid of. Mind you, he was the one that felt I should know in March that she was taking a job in my hometown. My other friend that stressed to him my fear of the ex (without my prompting him to) said his impression is that he doesn't understand the fear so he isn't going to back off. It's too bad he has to "approve" or understand the fear to be a loyal friend and even consider to respect this request. He knows the amount of hurt, turmoil, stress, etc. the ex's behavior has caused.

I have several good friends, and this hasn't been anywhere close to an issue with any of the rest of them. The majority immediately stopped contact, unfriended her on FB, etc. Any of the rest that I asked to unfriend (after I confirmed that I needed a total break with her and was completely done) didn't hesitate to do so out of loyalty for me.

Even after explaining to him my counselor said there probably was some stalking and my friends needed to stop contact, he wasn't offering it up. I have had no less than three conversations with him about this, and I think I don't have a choice other than to step back from the friendship. I hate it.

[disorderedsociety]

John is becoming more of a control freak and I'm realizing doesn't value our friendship as much as I thought he did (or at least as much as I do). I feel very betrayed, and he didn't offer any assurances that he wouldn't see her again. When pushed as to what his motivation is for seeing her, he said she is a damaged soul and he doesn't want to shun anyone or cut them out of his life.

Just needed to get this off my chest. I hate to lose a long friendship, but I'm not feeling the loyalty from him and feel whatever he gets out of being in touch with her (I believe a feeling of being needed, feeling superior, etc) is more important to him. He and the ex are both gay, so that rules out some obvious questions from others.

I had the same issue, only I knew this guy a way shorter time. He seemed to empathize with needing to escape a crazy soul-sucking young woman and I felt like we had that in common and were actually becoming friends. Just what I thought I needed at the time, and probably could have used a good friend.

What happens next? They're seeing each other behind my back. It would be one thing if I had dated a normal girl for a few months, waited a while and told my friend I didn't care if he dated her after I'd moved on. That's the least I would do for a fellow man I knew was going through any breakup. But a BPD relationship of 3 years is entirely different and I expected this "friend" to understand this given his past experiences with women he said were narcissistic or crazy. But it seems he was so desperate and so disrespectful of himself that this was the perfect opportunity to pursue a woman he said was just like him. If she's just like him, they've got another thing coming entirely. Karma will work things out, just wait