How to Respond when they are relentlessly Negative?

[satahal]

My 28 yr old dd with BPD had a job interview. In the days before she went on and on about how she's not going to get the job, how she's sure she won't have good answers to their questions, doesn't even really recall her credentials and applicable experience and anyway, and what does it really matter because the job doesn't pay enough to make a whit of difference in her life.

After the interview she called immediately to share how horribly it went, how she's certain she came off miserably, couldn't answer their questions and won't be hearing back from them.

I really wanted to validate something she said but I felt a little lost. I commiserated that it sucks when you feel like a job interview went poorly but you never know how they actually perceived you. I don't know how helpful that was. I guess I wanted to cheer her up or help her look at it more evenly and not like yet another hopeless failure.

Any suggestions for these kinds of situations?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[livednlearned]

Hi samanthal,

It is very challenging to hear a constant stream of negativity contrary to what we see standing in front of us. My son is this way, too. Top scores, awards, none of it matters, he can take apart something positive and render it meaningless to fit how he feels about himself.

I remember reading somewhere that pwBPD struggle with positive reinforcement -- it has the opposite effect, making them feel invalidated because it implies that reinforcement is needed, or it is implied that the way they see things is not right. A very sensitive interpretation of what are usually well-intentioned comments. I had to learn this the hard way with his suicidal ideation, and validate that he must be feeling very awful to not want to live. It's really tough to do this  :'( and it seems to work.

Validation is acknowledging and accepting how a person feels or thinks. I realize now I cannot cheer my son up with a different perspective, only accept and acknowledge he feels that way, and if I want him to focus on the next thing, I try to phrase it as a validating question. We have some good resources here on validation that might help:

• The Power of Asking Validating Questions



• COMMUNICATION: Validation - tools and techniques:



• COMMUNICATION: Validation - stop invalidating others



• BOOK: The Power of Validation (for Parents)



• BOOK: I Don't Have to Make Everything All Better

[MammaMia]

Samanthal

The negativity our loved-ones with BPD deal with is often not only about their feeling inferior, but it also gives them an excuse to fail.

If your daughter does not get the job, she feels validated because she KNEW that would happen.  If she does get it, she may look for ways to not accept the position because her low self-esteem and fear of failure tell her she will not be able to live up to her employer's expectations, or will not be able to keep the job.  Again validating her unworthiness.  

It is so difficult to try to be positive and encourage pwBPD, when they believe they are incapable of success or being happy.  

No matter what happens, keep your reaction low key.  Acknowledge she tried and did the best she could.

Do not criticize or make excuses.  Sadly, after being rejected (once or many times) pwBPD often stop looking for work. Depending on the severity of the disorder, this can be a significant characteristic of BPD.

[satahal]

Thank you MM and LL.

I had to learn this the hard way with his suicidal ideation, and validate that he must be feeling very awful to not want to live. It's really tough to do this  cry and it seems to work

So, you actually validate the negative feeling - by saying "you must feel very awful…" I've not done that for fear that it will reinforce the idea that self-harm is the way to go or that her life really is crap - you know? But I can see there's a distinction between validating how badly she feels versus how bad it truly is.

Sadly, after being rejected (once or many times) pwBPD often stop looking for work. Depending on the severity of the disorder, this can be a significant characteristic of BPD.

Her first post-grad school job wasn't a good fit and she left after a year - I think in part she was miserable and in part she feared being fired. Because of that one perceived failure, she's just taken herself out of the game. She's pursued one other line of work but when she didn't score an immediate home run she quit - despite some very positive accomplishments.

I used to think this was something of a strength - she didn't waste her time with goals that she didn't have great aptitude for - she made her goals align with her strengths. But maybe this was her way of avoiding failure/rejection.

If your daughter does not get the job, she feels validated because she KNEW that would happen

The negativity was always there - she'd tell me every semester to not be surprised if her report card came back with "Fs" and every time - straight As. I thought she used the fear of failure to motivate herself, but, it's actually been what she believes about herself. Now, since the dreaded failure has actually happened - she's demoralized to the point of hopelessness.

She's been so productive and accomplished for her whole life. Now, everything is overwhelming - she's so fragile and defeated. I thought she'd rebound but she's sinking.

I will check out the reading suggestions - thank you both!

[satahal]

Another thing I wanted to ask about:

People often tell me that my DD with BPD is upbeat and cheerful until I enter the room. For instance we had a family vacation this summer and I arrived after other relatives had gotten there - I was informed that she went from bubbly to morose the minute I entered.

My partner and others have observed this as well - people often describe this as her being manipulative but to what end?

My daughter and don't and haven't had a conflict heavy relationship - she wants me to visit her and says she misses me regularly and has fun with me and my partner - but once she has me it's one big poor me session, with her rejecting every suggestion I have.

Beginning when she was 3-4 yrs old she would tell stories of other children picking on her. My immediate response was, "Poor baby…" Often I'd find out that the stories weren't really true. I came to see she wanted me to swoop in to comfort and defend her - she liked to elicit that response in me. I'm wondering if there's some more positive way I can give her what it is she's looking for from me?

[livednlearned]

So, you actually validate the negative feeling - by saying "you must feel very awful…" I've not done that for fear that it will reinforce the idea that self-harm is the way to go or that her life really is crap - you know? But I can see there's a distinction between validating how badly she feels versus how bad it truly is.

Yes, validating that she feels her life is crap is different than agreeing that her life is crap. It's a whole universe of difference in that small nuance. When my son said he didn't want to live, I would basically list all the reasons he shouldn't feel that way. Which made him feel worse, because he didn't feel heard. He didn't have the skills to say why he felt bad. I had to help him find words and labels for his feeling state. "You must feel very sad to say that you don't want to live. Did something happen today to make you feel that way?" Saying that would make him feel heard, and over time he has allowed himself to express some of those feelings, and we are able to connect more around healthier interactions.

That's why the validating questions are so helpful. My son has an external focus of control (this is a long-standing psychological test to determine whether a person has internal or external focus of control. People who have an external focus are more susceptible to depression). I am trying to validate him while also putting faith in his ability to solve what he is dealing with. Too often as his mother I have done things for him. I feel he shaped me as a parent this way, wanting him to care for him as a way to prove I loved him, and as a result he does not feel confident that he can do things AND still be loved. Work in progress.

[satahal]

Thanks LL - interesting.

"You must feel very sad to say that you don't want to live. Did something happen today to make you feel that way?" Saying that would make him feel heard, and over time he has allowed himself to express some of those feelings, and we are able to connect more around healthier interactions.

My intuition is that if I said something like that to my daughter she would dissolve sobbing and immediately end the phone call feeling overwhelmed. How did you son initially react - was there a period of discomfort or transition when you stopped offering solutions and began validating feelings?

My daughter has a very flat affect and acts emotionless all of the time - whether it's happiness or sadness - the affect is the same. She's very tightly controlled. I don't think she likes things that threaten this state. So, I'm always treading lightly. Her go to reaction when I don't handle things the way she likes or she gets irritated is to leave - abruptly end the conversation or leave the room. I think I've been tiptoeing for years to keep her engaged.

Too often as his mother I have done things for him. I feel he shaped me as a parent this way, wanting him to care for him as a way to prove I loved him, and as a result he does not feel confident that he can do things AND still be loved.

Yes, yes, yes. I can so relate to this - she asks for rescue to feel loved - I think I probably do back off when she's not needing rescue - so she reels me back in this way. I have been making extra effort to call her more, to wait until she ends the phone conversation, to send her gifts and funny emails - trying to show more love. I was never stingy with it - it just seemed like she recoiled if I was too demonstrative.

Thank you so much - really making some connections through what you're sharing.

[lbjnltx]

Hello samanthal,

How is the communication and relationship with your daughter going of late?

Have you had a chance to practice validation and validating questions within your conversations yet?  How did that go?

lbj

[satahal]

Thanks for asking LBJ.

Our last conversation was really promising. I called her the day she was supposed to hear back from the job she was interviewing for. I didn't ask if she had heard anything and she didn't say, but she mentioned she'd applied for another position - which surprised me (I didn't let on). I kept my reaction low key. She gave a little spiel about how she wasn't qualified and I validated her casually - "It's true you don't have a background in xyz." She actually continued sharing that she'd really like to do that sort of work and that some of her skills were applicable, etc.

The conversation was just overall upbeat. She talked about what she'd been doing, day to day things and plans for the next year. She laughed and joked. Her tone wasn't hopeless or flat and emotionless, her normal affects. It was amazing really. I'm hesitant to feel too hopeful but I do feel very encouraged by this.

[lbjnltx]

That's great news!

Encouraged is a great feeling... .it is the seed of hope.  I think you are wise not to get overly optimistic.

Rome wasn't built in a day and it was built one stone at a time.



lbj

[satahal]

My daughter got the job she applied for! It's very part-time, which seems appropriate given the recentness of her diagnosis and her therapy schedule but very positive. Of course, she was certain I was shocked that she got the job - as if I didn't believe it possible (i'm her biggest fan) and she was sure she only got it because no one else applied, etc. Nonetheless, I could tell she was rather pleased about it. Happy day.

Crossing fingers.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[lbjnltx]

Great news!

[livednlearned]

How wonderful! It sounds like a breakthrough or TLC: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=210800.0

[satahal]

Thanks LBJ and LnL.