Why do they push us away? What should we do?

[Cole]

BPD wife and I have been getting along better than we have in a long time recently (past 2 weeks). Today she came home and (again) announced I never loved her, never met her needs, and she is moving out at the end of the month. Then she said she could not live without me. Huh? I asked her what changed since yesterday and she said she did not know.

Then I learned a handy little piece of information from s12. Wife had taken him to see his grandparents for his birthday. After wife drove 2.5 hours to get there, her mother changed her mind, told her she did not have time to visit, and did not let them come in. (Google "abusive and mean spirited", hit images, and a picture of MIL will come up). FIL does not have the intestinal fortitude to stand up to MIL and say he wants to see his daughter and grandson, making it worse. 

So, now I am being pushed away as if I am the one who hurt her. At least that is my theory. Anyone been in the same situation? Am I on the right track? What do you do when you are pushed away?  

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

What do you do when you are pushed away?  

Stay on your same path...

don't run... .don't chase them.  If you feel up to it... .validate their emotions... .

They are looking for some sort of "reaction"... .don't give it to them.

Your wife had frustrating feelings... .and didn't know why.  How are you about validation

[Cole]

What do you do when you are pushed away?  

Stay on your same path...

don't run... .don't chase them.  If you feel up to it... .validate their emotions... .

They are looking for some sort of "reaction"... .don't give it to them.

Your wife had frustrating feelings... .and didn't know why.  How are you about validation

Validation is something I have been working hard to master. But validating her when she tells me I never loved her seems counterproductive. I just avoid invalidating and hope it blows over.   

[maxsterling]

Yes, I know this all too well.  My wife gets into arguments with her family or friends, and soon the frustration is pinned on me.

My hypothesis is that in these times, my wife's mind is blurred.  People become other people, past becomes present, and every event is twisted to fit as pieces into her reality. 

I understand having a bad day and being a little short or rude with other people.  I think we all do that.  But with my wife, it doesn't feel like that is what is going on.  It actually feels like I become the target for bad things that happened to her in the past from other people.  And it's a negative reinforcement cycle - each incident feeds off the previous one and further sends her down the spiral.  I truly believe in those moments, I am no longer "Max" in her mind. 

This sounds like what is happening to your wife.  She was so upset by her mother, it triggered all sorts of memories, and then YOU become the oppressor, the one causing her the current grief.  It's just an emotional overload, and what is coming out of her mouth is pure nonsense. 

[Ceruleanblue]

Anytime we are around BPDh's family, he gets weird with me after. Even if all went well. I've never been able to understand it. Maybe he's ill at ease around them, even if it doesn't seem like it? Maybe it stirs up childhood memories? I don't know, but I sure know it's a drag. I would think he'd be in a good mood, but no! So not only do I have to be around his family, which isn't the most fun, but then he gets all grumpy for a day or two.

I've come to expect it, but I sure don't like it. I used to ask him why, and try to figure it out, now I just do my best to ignore it. What's to even validate? With my BPDh he swears it isn't happening and that he's not grumpy, so I can't really even validate it. I just wait it out, and go about my own business.

[Cole]

https://beautifullyborderline.wordpress.com/2014/07/02/BPD-and-pushing-loved-ones-away/

Interesting article written by a pwBPD about pushing away loved ones. Provides a little insight as to what they are thinking.

[Infern0]

I have been having trouble with this one too.

I asked why she does it especially seeing as she didn't seem to do it as much with Kurt (her ex before me) and her answer "it's because i actually love you"

Wonderful... .

Anyways best way to deal with it imo is infinite patience, which it's hard to have. But you just use the time out of comms to be productive, it's probably better than the smothering phases.

It is difficult though because it creates mistrust in the non, and that's the difficult thing for me. If she would just let me know she needs some space then that's totally fine and i'd be very understanding and not mind, but the sudden radio silence, especially when she has a history of cheating, it makes me nervous.

As with all things BPD you have to draw a line in the sand somewhere as to what you are willing to take, i've let her know that more than 3 days with no communication and i'm considering the relationship over.

[Skip]

i've let her know that more than 3 days with no communication and i'm considering the relationship over.

Be careful with ultimatums like this - its one thing to say its over regarding an affair - its another to say its over if you don't contact me for 72 hours.

Three problems. It might feel controlling. You haven't stood firm on this before.  And if you give in, you dilute hard lines like "no affairs".

There are hard boundaries (like affairs) and soft boundaries (like lets keep in touch daily) - the later probably needs to be more a matter of "reward for staying in contact and disappointment for not", rather than penalty.

Something to think about.

[Cole]

Now we are back to, "I cannot live without you, everything I have ever accomplished is because you were there behind me." and "All our problems are because I am nuts." 

At least I see she is trying. Has upped appointments with T.  Though, this is likely to change at any minute.

[Cole]

Yes, I know this all too well.  My wife gets into arguments with her family or friends, and soon the frustration is pinned on me.

My hypothesis is that in these times, my wife's mind is blurred.  People become other people, past becomes present, and every event is twisted to fit as pieces into her reality. 

I understand having a bad day and being a little short or rude with other people.  I think we all do that.  But with my wife, it doesn't feel like that is what is going on.  It actually feels like I become the target for bad things that happened to her in the past from other people.  And it's a negative reinforcement cycle - each incident feeds off the previous one and further sends her down the spiral.  I truly believe in those moments, I am no longer "Max" in her mind. 

This sounds like what is happening to your wife.  She was so upset by her mother, it triggered all sorts of memories, and then YOU become the oppressor, the one causing her the current grief.  It's just an emotional overload, and what is coming out of her mouth is pure nonsense. 

Max, you have stated what I thought was going on. Along with being the target for things done by other people, I tend to be the target for things done in the past. Like many pwBPD, she cannot let go of past hurts. If she suddenly remembers something that someone did that hurt her in 1984, it is as if it just happened this minute. And since that person is not here and I am, she tries to take it out on me.       

[formflier]

Now we are back to, "I cannot live without you, everything I have ever accomplished is because you were there behind me." and "All our problems are because I am nuts." 

At least I see she is trying. Has upped appointments with T.  Though, this is likely to change at any minute.

This is good to hear... .enjoy having your point of view validated.  It seems you realize that she may shift out of this mode at some point in the future... .  It's good to have realistic assumptions about the future.

How did you try to respond to her statements that you posted about?

FF

[Cole]

Now we are back to, "I cannot live without you, everything I have ever accomplished is because you were there behind me." and "All our problems are because I am nuts." 

At least I see she is trying. Has upped appointments with T.  Though, this is likely to change at any minute.

This is good to hear... .enjoy having your point of view validated.  It seems you realize that she may shift out of this mode at some point in the future... .  It's good to have realistic assumptions about the future.

How did you try to respond to her statements that you posted about?

FF

I usually say, "If moving out will make you happy, that is what you should do. I just want you to be happy." And, as usual, she changed her mind quickly and started the "I don't know if I can live without you" stuff. She has been threatening to move out for 2 years now, but never carries through. 

When I told her I was going to file for divorce June 1st and put an end to all this crap once and for all, she decided to start seeing her T more often and changed several behaviors which I said had to be changed as a hard boundary. So far so good, but only a few steps have been taken down a never ending path, with a few steps backward here and there.   

[an0ught]

Now we are back to, "I cannot live without you, everything I have ever accomplished is because you were there behind me." and "All our problems are because I am nuts." 

At least I see she is trying. Has upped appointments with T.  Though, this is likely to change at any minute.

It may be worth validating that in a targeted manner to help her tempering it. She is over the top, only on the positive side. Strong emotions often lead to eratic behavior. That can be true also for strong positive emotions. In this situation I also sense an undertone of fear below the praise.

[Cole]

Now we are back to, "I cannot live without you, everything I have ever accomplished is because you were there behind me." and "All our problems are because I am nuts." 

At least I see she is trying. Has upped appointments with T.  Though, this is likely to change at any minute.

It may be worth validating that in a targeted manner to help her tempering it. She is over the top, only on the positive side. Strong emotions often lead to eratic behavior. That can be true also for strong positive emotions. In this situation I also sense an undertone of fear below the praise.

Absolutely. Everything is over the top: anger, fear, joy, happiness. Trying to help her moderate it has become a full time job. The T she has been seeing is the first one who seems to get that she is BPD, not bipolar, and has been making slow progress.

[waverider]

What to do?

Stay stable and don't be reactive.

Let the pendulum swing, it often has too much momentum to stand in its way.

She needs you to stay in the middle, she needs you as a benchmark

[Cole]

What to do?

Stay stable and don't be reactive.

Let the pendulum swing, it often has too much momentum to stand in its way.

She needs you to stay in the middle, she needs you as a benchmark

And as Waverider put it, the pendulum has again swung.

Took a little break and some time to myself.  Was out in the wild for the week, got back yesterday morning looking like one of the Duck Dynasty guys. I would still be out there, but have to shave, put on the darn suit, and head to the office tomorrow.      

Wife informed me that she has been doing some thinking and wants to stay to work on our marriage. Says she has felt closer to me the last few weeks than she has in a long time. Says her family and friends are taking my side, don't want to hear how bad she has it, and are telling her to grow up. Even wants to try MC again, which she has been adamantly against.

Don't know if it is because I was gone or what. But I bet it will change again by the end of the week.  

[formflier]

But I bet it will change again by the end of the week.  

What should you do (big theory) to help keep her in this place? 

A.  "chase" after her to pull her closer?

B.  keep some emotional distance?

FF

[Cole]

But I bet it will change again by the end of the week.  

What should you do (big theory) to help keep her in this place? 

A.  "chase" after her to pull her closer?

B.  keep some emotional distance?

FF

C. Pack new rations and head back out into the woods for another week.

OK, seriously though, I am going with "B". That seems to work best with her.

[formflier]

 

I'm jealous of your time in the woods!

In June I was able to spend quality time out there. 

I was hoping to this week... but a pesky job interview has got in the way... .I feel like you do having to put a suit back on.

So... plan B is to clean up and season the cast iron cookware... .and practice some camp recipes with the kids here at home.  Hopefully later in the week we can do 1 or 2 nights.

FF

[Cole]

I'm jealous of your time in the woods!

In June I was able to spend quality time out there. 

I was hoping to this week... but a pesky job interview has got in the way... .I feel like you do having to put a suit back on.

So... plan B is to clean up and season the cast iron cookware... .and practice some camp recipes with the kids here at home.  Hopefully later in the week we can do 1 or 2 nights.

FF

This was my one time a year myself. The rest of the year I am with my son's BSA troop as an assistant scoutmaster, which is a lot of fun, too.

Have fun cooking out with your kids, that is what it is all about. 

[mindwise]

C. Pack new rations and head back out into the woods for another week.

This is funny, I find myself heading more and more into the woods!

When she pulls in what works for me is to blend plan "B" (emotional distance) with plan "S" (seduction).

It gives us several amazing weeks... .then followed by a few awkward days (back to the woods )

[an0ught]

  mindwise. Rather than letting her jo-jo distance figure out what works for both of you and manage distance accordingly.

[mindwise]

mindwise. Rather than letting her jo-jo distance figure out what works for both of you and manage distance accordingly.

an0ught. Thanks for the advice. Yes, we are figuring out what works for both of us. It's a very slow work in progress.

[Cole]

And... .back the other way.

Biggest, worst dysreg I have ever seen Sunday afternoon. She was screaming she hates me and never wants to talk to me again. Went on about my sister-in-law (who has nothing to do with this, we see her once a year if even that much) and how much she hates her because everyone thinks she is perfect. I got her calmed down after a while and she hid in her room the rest of the day.

Monday she went to scheduled appointment with T. Came home and told me she is leaving by mid-August (broken record), that she wishes it was different. An hour later she wanted to show me something funny on the computer, stood up very close to me and kissed me. Then asked me to make popcorn and put the family pictures up on the TV for a slide show, which we did with the kids, and was very affectionate the rest of the evening.

Who needs amusement parks when you live on a roller coaster?

     

[itgirl]

That is epic.  You sure are being put through a lot of emotions.  Not going to say hang in there.  Rather stand still!

[mindwise]

Who needs amusement parks when you live on a roller coaster?      

You bet

Sunday: Rage --> Calm

Monday: Threads of leaving --> Affection

How did you manage to help her calm her rage?

What did you respond when she announced she was leaving mid-August?

I'm asking because it seems to me you're doing really good

[waverider]

And... .back the other way.

Biggest, worst dysreg I have ever seen Sunday afternoon. She was screaming she hates me and never wants to talk to me again. Went on about my sister-in-law (who has nothing to do with this, we see her once a year if even that much) and how much she hates her because everyone thinks she is perfect. I got her calmed down after a while and she hid in her room the rest of the day.

Monday she went to scheduled appointment with T. Came home and told me she is leaving by mid-August (broken record), that she wishes it was different. An hour later she wanted to show me something funny on the computer, stood up very close to me and kissed me. Then asked me to make popcorn and put the family pictures up on the TV for a slide show, which we did with the kids, and was very affectionate the rest of the evening.

Who needs amusement parks when you live on a roller coaster?

     

Dragging SIL into it because she is jealous of the way people admire her, even though she has nothing to do with whats going on now is telling. This shows that it is deep self loathing and fear of being seen as a failure that is eating her up. The rest is just projecting this "hate" emotion onto others. Once thats done she has soothed herself and back to normal.

The affection is her guarding against potential abandonment in case you act on her threats and actually left.

[Cole]

Dragging SIL into it because she is jealous of the way people admire her, even though she has nothing to do with whats going on now is telling. This shows that it is deep self loathing and fear of being seen as a failure that is eating her up. The rest is just projecting this "hate" emotion onto others. Once thats done she has soothed herself and back to normal.

The affection is her guarding against potential abandonment in case you act on her threats and actually left.

You hit it out of the ballpark.

Major self esteem and core shame issues at work right now. Yesterday she sent me a text saying she does not deserve to be happy because she has done so many things to hurt me.

Then last night she had dinner ready when I got home (first time in months), insisted on giving me a foot rub, and watched a movie with me and the kids. She was in a great mood, but who knows when that will change again.

Just glad she found a T she likes and cannot wait to see again. I am sure this one knows wife is BPD, not bipolar. From wife's description, sounds like T is using DBT.

[Cole]

Who needs amusement parks when you live on a roller coaster?      

You bet

Sunday: Rage --> Calm

Monday: Threads of leaving --> Affection

How did you manage to help her calm her rage?

What did you respond when she announced she was leaving mid-August?

I'm asking because it seems to me you're doing really good

The "I'm leaving you" happens all the time. I simply tell her to do what will make her happy and that takes the wind out of her sails. Twice she has packed up and left "for good", only to return an hour later and act like nothing happened.   

Am I alone in feeling like I am married to a child?

[MaroonLiquid]

Am I alone in feeling like I am married to a child?

No.  My wife may be very high-functioning but she can throw a temper tantrum with the worst 2 year olds when she doesn't get her way.