I just got played.

[going places]

My youngest is 21.

She's always been a 'handful'.

She is less mature than her brother and sister, by a long shot.

She is absorbed with social media, and very easily lead.

She does what's best for her, in all circumstances.

She is very, very selfish.

She acts a lot like her father... .who is AS/N... .

In May, she committed to me, that she was moving to Florida with me.

The move is in 11 days.

Two weeks ago, she had dinner, with her dad, and his new 27 year old girlfriend (he's 46, our children are 25,24,21).

For the last two weeks, she has avoided all eye contact with me.

She goes to bed early when I am home, or she stays gone.

In the last week... .she started pushing my buttons.

Ignoring my texts, being vague about what she was doing, intentionally making messes right after I have cleaned the apartment, and the social media... .wow... .

Yesterday morning, I woke up and she had erased me from all social media ((this is when I know she's up to no good))... .we've been down this road before.

See, my 21 year old, needs to feel 'rescued'.  She likes that feeling... .so she fabricates things so somoene can rescue her.

ANYWAY, thing escalated fast.

I took her car (in my name) and she started walking home from work.

I tried to talk to her bf but she has his head so full of spit, there was no talking to him.

I met her as she was walking home... .verbal controntation, then she stuck her finger in my face and I shoved her.

Boy friend jumps to the rescue.

I told her she had till noon to give me back the cell phone and come get her stuff.

And she did.

She is now living w/ her dad.

I took the car, canceled her from the car insurance, took the phone, kept the lap top (I bought it).

She wants to be an 'adult' then fine... .be one, but not on my dime.

Her and I have done this dance before.

She acts like an ass

I throw her out

I beg her back

She comes back

Rinse Repeat.

Not this time.

When she came to get her things, she expected (as per before) that she would have to pack everything up, and I would beg her to stay, apologize, blame everything on me... .etc.

When she walked thru the door, there it was. In a pile... .everything she owned.

So she started opening boxes, taking clothes off hangers (making a mess) and I said: no, get it out, sort it at your dads.

She said "I am doing this my way"

I said "I am done taking orders from you"

So I started moving all her crap out the front door... .

She said "i've got this mom"

I said "you will never again tell me what to do".

When she, her bf and the last box was put out side? I shut and locked the door.

I went thru her phone and what I saw was a mirror reflection of her father... .

Saw things in her phone that she 'denouces out loud' to my face, yet she participates in.

It's disgusting.

She, for the last 2 weeks, has had a plan on how she was going to get out of moving with me.

Instead of sitting down and have a conversation with me, she manipulated me... .pushed my buttons till I lost my mind, so now she can say "well you're the one who _________"

JUST LIKE HER FATHER.

In 11 days, I will be in Florida. Without her.

Living with her is like living with my ex sometimes (ok, a lot of the time).

I love her, she's my child. I love her so much, it hurts so bad... .

But I will not allow her to treat me like this... .

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Lifewriter16]

Hi going places

Well done for setting boundaries and looking after yourself.

Here's something you might like to ponder on:

When you come down from the adrenalin of these events and the sadness and grief begins to kick in, what specific things can you do to look after yourself and help you cope with the emotions that come up? Sometimes, having a plan can help us through.

Love Lifewriter

[going places]

I have so much to do to get ready for the leave.

[Kate4queen]

I did the same thing to my 21 yr old BPD son. I just decided enough was enough and I packed up his room and when he came back (after threatening to set his druggie friends on our house and family). I just decided I needed to be strong and not let my fear make me beg him to stay.

I think he got the shock of his life when that happened.

It certainly made him think and resulted in him taking actions that severed him from our family at the present but I'm actually okay with that. I know he is safe, I know he found a job and I know his younger brother is keeping an eye on him. That's all I need to know at the moment. Maybe one day that will change but not yet.

We followed that up by learning and using some of the techniques listed here on the side bar for how to have a conversation with him that didn't end up with him raging. We learned to set boundaries for ourselves and it was incredibly liberating not to live within that constant bubble of fear.

I think you should take this break to decide your new boundaries and stick to them. It's nice that like us you get the chance to separate and decide what works for you. Stay strong.

[AVR1962]

Going places, good for you! Your scenario could easily be my own, my daughter plays the victim and also likes to be rescued but then she turns around and bites my back after I have given her the support and she is done with me. Of course it is always my fault and she does the whole silent manipulations thing. She has already been in contact with whoever to bad mouth me and get the support from that persona and once she is accommodated by that other person then she turns her back on me like I am some evil demon possessed person that means harm. She then drags whoever her support team thru the mud and they go along with or are convinced to be part of it. This last time daughter (34) took me off FaceBook which is not a big deal expect she was not responding to other means of contact and not only did she take me off and not reply to emails or phone calls but I guess this was a group effort and her husband and 2 children took me off too. Sad, but she has to have her support system all around her and this time her children were drug into this. She will so twist their heads too. My daughter is the spitting image of her father, my exhusband, and the two make quite a team together.

Like you, I am taking this time to draw my boundaries. No more! She can play her games, she can blame me all she wants but I will no longer dance.

Stand strong!

[lbjnltx]

There is a lot of pain in your post going places.  Being out of the loop on such an important matter is hurtful.  When we are not part of the decision process (and someone we don't hold in high regard is) it can feel like manipulation.  Do you think your daughter didn't discuss this with you because she was afraid of your reaction?

Rejection hurts... .for sure! :'(

How are you doing now?  Did you get moved?



lbjnltx

[going places]

There is a lot of pain in your post going places.  Being out of the loop on such an important matter is hurtful.  When we are not part of the decision process (and someone we don't hold in high regard is) it can feel like manipulation.  Do you think your daughter didn't discuss this with you because she was afraid of your reaction?

Rejection hurts... .for sure! :'(

How are you doing now?  Did you get moved?



lbjnltx

Correct, a lot of pain. Deep sadness, as I do not want any of my 3 to repeat MY mistakes, or the mistakes of their dad... .but she is following in lock step behind him, and that is terrifying.

Being out of the loop is one thing.

Being manipulated (this is not my first rodeo w/ her and manipulation) so that she can do the things she does, and make the decisions she makes AND BLAME me for them?

Unacceptable.

Being "out of the loop" and being "deceived and manipulated" are two, very different things.

I have an older daughter, 25, who finds her fathers choices disgusting, and she has no respect for him.

She only talks to him on the phone, occasionally, when HE calls her (she does not call him), and she is "busy" when he wants to meet w/ her and introduce his gf who is only 3 years older than herself. That grosses her out.

Her and I have had several, adult discussions about her dad... .

My son, 23 almost 24, and I have had deep adult discussions about this topic.

He has met the girl, he's not impressed, but he plays nice. It is in his best interest.

But he has made it clear, that he is not 'impressed' and he will be polite, but this is not normal, and he will not embrace it.

The 21 girl, has been lured by her selfishness and all things shiny. She is entrenced in social media. She is surrounded by every bad influence possible, and she, she, chooses this.

NONE of those things make her shallow. She CHOOSES to be shallow.

NONE of those things "drove her to do this or that" SHE CHOSE to do, this or that.

I feel so sorry for the 28 year old gf of my ex. I hope she wises up before she gets knocked up... .

I pray that she runs... .

She is young, and he will suck the soul right out of her... .and create more heart ache and ruin with new kids.

I hope she wises up.

Maybe my youngest child will 'help her' to see the light... .

I hope she runs. Fast, and before her life as she knows it is gone... .

[Skip]

Can you help me understand this better.

How physically close (location) are you all right now and how far away is this move taking you?

What incident led you to take the car and phone away?

I'm trying to understand better, what is happening.

[going places]

Can you help me understand this better.

How physically close (location) are you all right now and how far away is this move taking you?

Right now, and for the next 11 days, we live about 10 miles apart.

On July 31, I will move from Central Indiana to SW Florida. About 1150 miles apart.

What incident led you to take the car and phone away?

The car is in my name. The purchase was made, when she promised to make the 130.00 a month payments. I told her I would MATCH her dollar for dollar so we could pay it off in 1/2 the time. She made about 6 payments total. I found on her Twitter a photo of the speedometer her doing 100mph.  I found videos of her drunk, w/ her minor friends she bought alcohol for, so there is that chance she is drinking and driving. I found pot in the front seat 2 months ago.

I cancelled her off my auto policy. I told her and her dad. Neither has replied.

The phone, is in my name. Again, I upgraded because she told me she would pay the bill. She has only paid for 2 months of the 5 months she has had it. Actually, I had a 32 gig Iphone, and when we upgraded it was cheaper to get a 16gig. So I gave her my 32 and took the 16. Either way, I am stuck with this phone and the remainder of the contract, because she ran out and got a new phone.

1. She is grossly irresponsible, and both are in my name, and I will suffer the consequences to her actions. NO THANK YOU.

2. If she 'wants to be all grown up on her own"? Do it on your own dime.

The incident was her, for 2 weeks and coming to a head last Thursday, being disrespectful, sneaking, lying to my face, and making up things that are not true.

Example. She said that I posted something on social media saying that her brother, my son, was "the favorite". I posted no such thing. My words were "thank you for talking to me when I hurt".

HER GUILT for the choices she was making, knowing they were wrong and hurtful, caused her to fabricate in her mind that "the boy is the favorite and I posted it for all to see... .see. see. see. I'm right he IS the favoirte".

She so badly wants to have this "terrible childhood" so someone can 'rescue' her.

Because it is not true, she creates her own reality, tells the lie so many times even SHE believes it, then manipulates the situation so she can say "see I told you... .look... ."

It's sad.

I'm trying to understand better, what is happening.

Hope that helps

[Skip]

The incident was... .She said that I posted something on social media saying that her brother, my son, was "the favorite". I posted no such thing. My words were "thank you for talking to me when I hurt"

How did you handle this?  Is this what catalyzed taking the car away?

[going places]

The incident was... .She said that I posted something on social media saying that her brother, my son, was "the favorite". I posted no such thing. My words were "thank you for talking to me when I hurt"

How did you handle this?  Is this what catalyzed taking the car away?

At the time, I thought she was right.

She had me convinced I typed "he was the favorite".

She then blathered on about how he was always, the favorite.

Which is completely, untrue.

But this is part of her 'creation' of this 'bad childhood' to be 'rescued from'.

My rebuttal to this was "you know this is not true, you know it, why do you create these lies".

She then, stuck her finger in my face... .and after an instant surge of adrenaline? I shoved her away from me.

I handled it very poorly.

She knows, how to push, my buttons... .she knows, what lights my fuse.

She knows... .and she uses that as a weapon.

What made me take the car?


The car is in my name. The purchase was made, when she promised to make the 130.00 a month payments. I told her I would MATCH her dollar for dollar so we could pay it off in 1/2 the time. She made about 6 payments total. I found on her Twitter a photo of the speedometer her doing 100mph.  I found videos of her drunk, w/ her minor friends she bought alcohol for, so there is that chance she is drinking and driving. I found pot in the front seat 2 months ago.

1. She is grossly irresponsible, and both are in my name, and I will suffer the consequences to her actions. NO THANK YOU.

2. If she 'wants to be all grown up on her own"? Do it on your own dime.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[lbjnltx]

The financial responsibilities that now fall on you could cause feelings of resentment, especially if you feel taken advantage of and it creates hardship for you.  Is that how you feel?

21 is still very young and immature, especially if she is BPD.  Making promises to get what they want is something (in the moment) she truly believed... .like when they want a kitten, they promise to do everything to take care of it... .and you know how that usually turns out (BPD or not).  That she made some of the payments is good.  What limits/consequences were set and how were they set regarding the car? What did the conversations look like when she no longer made the payments?

What goals do you have for your relationship with your daughter?  How can we help you achieve those goals?

lbj

[going places]

I do not feel resentment as much as I feel hurt lost betrayed. I do not think she is BPD but has a ton of N traits like her dad. AS too.

I will give her what she asks for. For me to leave her alone.

[Skip]

I understand that you are really hurt right now and facing a move 1,000 miles away from your daughters alone. This is a hard move for anyone. You are in the final days and that is stressful.  And you have this fight with your daughter... .

I can imagine she was facing a lot of the same stress with the move too - leaving her family and friends behinds.

Did all this emotion collide in a big fight with you over-reacting or "not handling it well". Did that then escalate into I'm not going (her) and I'm taking your car (you)?

Is something like this what happened?

[going places]

I understand that you are really hurt right now and facing a move 1,000 miles away from your daughters alone. This is a hard move for anyone. You are in the final days and that is stressful.  And you have this fight with your daughter... .

I can imagine she was facing a lot of the same stress with the move too - leaving her family and friends behinds.

Did all this emotion collide in a big fight with you over-reacting or "not handling it well". Did that then escalate into I'm not going (her) and I'm taking your car (you)?

Is something like this what happened?

For months, she has been so excited to move. (That's what she has verbalized)

2 weeks ago, she had dinner w/ her dad, and every day after that she was cold, distant, would not make eye contact. Argumentative, (more than usual) went to bed early (when I was home) stayed in bed late (when I was home) or stayed gone. He boyfriend the week before the meltdown started distancing himself too. Not making eye contact, not conversating as he normally did. The day before the melt down, I had cleaned the whole house, in anticipation of her bf coming over for dinner after being on a vacation for the prior 5 days. She came in, tore a bunch of stuff out of the closet, and left it in the middle of the floor.

I texted her and said "dude, that was disrespectful, I spent my whole day off cleaning the house, and you just make a mess and leave? Not cool"... .She texts back all kinds of insane crap that had nothing to do with her leaving stuff all over the room... .I knew. I knew then, she was itching for a fight.

She had been for two weeks prior to the melt down wearing me down.

The other two kids saw it too... .they know her behavior pattern.

Something happened at that dinner w/ her dad 2 weeks ago.

A safe guess is that he promised her a place to live with no rules, that should could drive his new car and ride his new bike, that he would take her to the race track, etc. Appealed to her flesh... .the selfish side.

And instead of saying "hey mom, I know I committed to you in MAY and I know that you only rented the 3 bedroom house that you did because I committed to come, but I don't want to go. I will send you XXX dollars a months, and pay my cell bill for bailing on you (she knows I would not have taken any $$ for the rent)"

SHE CHOSE to create chaos, dissention, lies and manipulated things so that it "looked like" I didn't want her to go and *I* threw her out.

This is the 3rd time, in 2 years, she has done this.

The first time, she listened to a co-worker 10 years older than her (she was 19, co-worker 29) and that co-worker convinced her that they could get a place together, and live this party life... .

She created a spit storm in the home to the point I went to her recruiters, told them everything she was doing, they verified it via social media... .and confronted her about her lies.

Her recruiters talked her out of it, and she doesn't even talk to this co-worker any more.

The second time was when she came home from boot camp (medically discharged) she 're-connected' with a POS boy and decided she was going to "go out on her own, etc" and again, she created a fire storm. Her stupid dad thought it was a good idea to put her on the back of a motorcycle and take her downtown (crime was out of control, and she was on crutches for a broken foot and a fractured HIP) and I had a cow. He is wrecklessly irresponsible. That lit the match to the fire storm. She moved out and lived w/ friends and in a hotel room for a week.

Both times, I took the car. Again, it's in my name. She's not gonna screw me with her bad choices.

Both times, I begged her to come back, begged her to forgive me, gave her everything she wanted, etc.

((same thing I did w her dad)) She watched. She knows how to work me.


This time, I didn't beg her back.This time, I took the car, and I am not giving it back. This time I had her stuff waiting at the door for her. This time there was no begging her back. I wrote her a letter telling her I loved her, but she has to lay in the bed she made. I can no longer allow her to manipulate me; use my love for her as a weapon against me.

What I handled poorly is this: I didn't see what she was doing until it was too late. I was hurt, angry, and confronted her while hurt and angry. When she pointed her finger in my face, I started to black out... .everything sounded fuzzy, tunnel vision, then wham, I shoved her.

She knows, she absolutely knows what she is doing.

This was building for 2 weeks... .I was handling it well for 2 weeks... .and I leave in 11 days, so she KNEW she had to 'crank it up' for me to lose my mind if her plan, was going to work. SHE HAD to make this go down before her bf left for boot, so she could say "see baby, told you mom is _______" cause she had been working him for those two weeks.

The other 2 kids are glad she is not here.

The drama, chaos, disrespect, shallowness wears them out.

Are my feelings hurt, you bet.

But I know the road she's on. It leads to destruction. And with her being around her dad... .he will put her in the fast lane with him... .and that crushes my heart to think my flesh and blood has chosen this path...

[lbjnltx]

Hi going places,

I was wondering if she had come to you and had a real conversation with you to let you know she changed her mind about moving how might you have reacted differently?  Like with the car, phone, and how you are feeling now? 

Where would you be at this point if she had?

[going places]

I would have been upset (not angry, but sad).

I would have 'sold' the car to her for 1.00 and then it would be in her name.

I would have taken her to get her own insurance and taken her off mine.

I would have ended up getting screwed on the phone... .I would have let her keep it, and she would have never paid.

I would have walked on egg shells, trying not to piss her off, in hopes this was another "phase" and she would call me in September and say "hey mom, changed my mind, I want to come down".

[lbjnltx]

The odds are she will call you in September (or Oct., Nov., etc... .) and ask can she come.  (You yourself said that she is headed for disaster with her Dad leading the way.)  What might you do then if the relationship is left in tatters? If she is in crisis mode and looking to you to rescue her?  It would be a very strained reunion. 

It's best to address the problems sooner rather than later.  It seems that there is a common thread that runs through all of these issues... .the car, phone, feelings of favoritism, cycles of remorse and lather rinse repeat. 

This is within your power to turn around and will be of benefit to you and your relationship with your daughter and others.  Is this something you want to work on?

[going places]

The odds are she will call you in September (or Oct., Nov., etc... .) and ask can she come.  (You yourself said that she is headed for disaster with her Dad leading the way.)  What might you do then if the relationship is left in tatters? If she is in crisis mode and looking to you to rescue her?  It would be a very strained reunion.  

After what I found on her computer last night, I do not think that phone call will be any time soon.

She's in over her head.

She is not looking for ME to rescue her... .

Now all she sees is "shiny new" and "fun fun fun".

It's sad, but there will be no phone call or reunion, any time soon... .

It's best to address the problems sooner rather than later.  It seems that there is a common thread that runs through all of these issues... .the car, phone, feelings of favoritism, cycles of remorse and lather rinse repeat.  

That is not possible, address the problem.

She will not speak to me. She is under her father's spell... .you just don't understand.

I spoke, at length, with her recruiters wife (mature, adult woman) last night... .she said "let her go".

I spoke w/ a good friend of mine, who is a mature adult, who said "let her go".

This pattern will not repeat. I lived through 3 hard, torturous years trying to 'love' her dad enough that he would not leave. Once they have 'reality' set in their minds? Truth cannot penetrate. Once they see 'shiny new fun things'... .real, true, good, right, noble things are disposeable.

She is under, his spell.

Only God can save her.

That is who I am relinquishing control too.

I have broken the chain of this cycle.

She is on her own.

This is within your power to turn around and will be of benefit to you and your relationship with your daughter and others.  Is this something you want to work on?

No. I have no power. Zero.

What she wants, right now, is for me to drive over to her dad's and make a scene.

She has blocked me on all social media.

She has a new phone, and has not given me the number.

She has blocked me from email.

She will throw anything I mail to her, into the trash.

THE ONLY way now, is if I drive over. She has made sure of that.

Unfortunately for her, she is in for a surprise... .I'm not.

I'm not driving over there.  In 10 days, I will be on the road for Florida, w/o her, and there is no turning back.

I pray God will open her eyes, her ears, and her heart to see THE TRUTH, and she will run from what she's in right now.

I pray He will soften her heart, lead her to Him, and away from evil.

I pray He will move swiftly, before she destroys herself.

But I am out.

For all I know, this is God's way of getting through to her.

Maybe *I* am the roadblock?

I don't know, but what I do know is this; Until she has come to the end of herself and her ways; she is not welcome in my home. Period.

[Skip]

After what [has happened], I do not think that phone call will be any time soon.

She is not looking for ME to rescue her... .

She will not speak to me.

No. I have no power. Zero.

She has blocked me on all social media.

She has a new phone, and has not given me the number.

She has blocked me from email.

I don't know, but what I do know is this; Until she has come to the end of herself and her ways; she is not welcome in my home. Period.

Most likely this is true... .This was a big fight and it escalated and its not just going to go away.

I am relinquishing control too.

I have broken the chain of this cycle.

She is on her own.

This is good. There has been an unhealthy dynamic between the two of you, poor boundaries, lack of respect... .as you have said, you both have a role in this. She has been irresponsible. You have been reactionary.

She still loves you.  You still love her.

You can't start making anything better until you stop making it worse.

I pray God will open her eyes, her ears, and her heart to see THE TRUTH, and she will run from what she's in right now.

I pray He will soften her heart, lead her to Him, and away from evil.

I pray He will move swiftly, before she destroys herself.

He has his work to do.  She has her work to do.

And you?  

How do you make this right from your end? For you.  For everyone.

How do you do this with strong values, and good boundaries, and love?  How do you do it right?

What is the right thing to bring to the table now that lays the foundation for something better in the future?

she is not welcome in my home. Period. 

In 10 days, I will be on the road for Florida, w/o her, and there is no turning back.

Is this it?

[going places]

Most likely this is true... .This was a big fight and it escalated and its not just going to go away.

Yes, a big fight, she wanted. I was an idiot to react the way I did. I gave her, all the power and control. My reaction was exactly what she wanted. I played, right into her hand.

This is good. There has been an unhealthy dynamic between the two of you, poor boundaries, lack of respect... .as you have said, you both have a role in this. She has been irresponsible. You have been reactionary.

She still loves you.  You still love her.

Yes, poor boundaries. My fault.

Lack of respect again, I allowed her to get away w/ murder. My fault.

Yes, I am very reactionary, because I did not set boundaries.

You can't start making anything better until you stop making it worse.

Very true.

Once I remove myself from the cycle, she will seek out a new scapegoat.

He has his work to do.  She has her work to do.

And you?  

How do you make this right from your end? For you.  For everyone.

I sent her a letter in the mail, telling her I loved her, accepting responsibility for my actions, asking for her forgiveness. That's all I can do.

Moving forward, with firm boundaries in place, this cycle will not continue.

How do you do this with strong values, and good boundaries, and love?  How do you do it right?

I remove myself from the equasion, and release control to God, alone.

I pray daily.

I stand firm on my boundaries.

What is the right thing to bring to the table now that lays the foundation for something better in the future?

The right thing is to stop.

Stop trying to communicate with her, or her father.

Stop trying to apologize.

Stop worrying about what lies she is telling everyone.

Trust God has this.

Trust God has her.

Stand firm on my boundaries moving forward. Do not waiver. Do not cave.

Is this it?

Yes.

I am moving, without her.

She is not welcome.

Not until she takes full responsibility for her actions, confesses, and repents.

Not until she goes before God and man and is honest.

This is the hardest thing I have ever done. I thought the 3 years (2011-2014) with her father would destroy me. It almost did. But I have walked thru the valley of the shadow of death... .and I came out on the otherside. I am stronger.

I learned that it's not about me. I am 'enough'. My love IS real.

Her choices are just that. Her choices.

I pray God will open her eyes, ears and heart to Truth... .before it's too late.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Skip]

You're hurt and your dealing with it by lashing out in anger. So is your daughter. It's escalating and the fight consuming everything in site, rather than de-escalating and finding a solution or truce.

You know this.  You've said as much.

She didn't want to make the trip and got confrontational. It has escalated to lost cars, phones, contact. You ex is heavily implicated in this and you are interchanging them in some of the paragraphs.

Anger and resentments are often justified - but are they helpful?  

So how does a venting hurt us?  When we are resentful, we try to balance the wrongs we feel by demeaning the person that hurt us.  We bash them, feel disgust for them, feel hatred or look down in pity... .we may even wish them harm or lash out to hurt them or their reputation.

The problem for us is that we create a dysfunctional and false reality to sooth our pain.  And in doing so we cling to a futile need to be right or be superior, which overrides our capacity to heal and to make healthy changes in our lives... .usually because we don't know any other way to come to grips with the painful feelings of hurt, rejection, and abandonment.  

More... .

She is not welcome.

Not until she takes full responsibility for her actions, confesses, and repents.

Not until she goes before God and man and is honest.

Value/boundaries or judgment?

This might help: https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries

My question is to you is, are you repeating the pattern of before?  Are you at that same first step? You said you didn't want to do this. Can you stop without feeling like you are losing?

Escalate. Cool. Feel bad. Apologize.

Your friends, yesterday, said "let her go".  :)id they mean her?  Or did they mean "the fight"?

We're your support group.  We are here to support you.  If any of this feels unsupportive or judgmental, and it may, that's not the intent. We're just asking the hard question of whether your desires and goals and emotions are out of synch.  It happens in these relationships.  All these feelings have been lived by others. We are just trying to help you accomplish what you want to accomplish (the bigger picture). There are no easy answers.

[going places]

You're hurt and your dealing with it by lashing out in anger. So is your daughter. It's escalating and the fight consuming everything in site, rather than de-escalating and finding a solution or truce.

You know this.  You've said as much.

She didn't want to make the trip and got confrontational. It has escalated to lost cars, phones, contact. You ex is heavily implicated in this and you are interchanging them in some of the paragraphs.

Anger and resentments are often justified - but are they helpful?  

So how does a venting hurt us?  When we are resentful, we try to balance the wrongs we feel by demeaning the person that hurt us.  We bash them, feel disgust for them, feel hatred or look down in pity... .we may even wish them harm or lash out to hurt them or their reputation.

The problem for us is that we create a dysfunctional and false reality to sooth our pain.  And in doing so we cling to a futile need to be right or be superior, which overrides our capacity to heal and to make healthy changes in our lives... .usually because we don't know any other way to come to grips with the painful feelings of hurt, rejection, and abandonment.  

More... .

She is not welcome.

Not until she takes full responsibility for her actions, confesses, and repents.

Not until she goes before God and man and is honest.

Value/boundaries or judgment?

Boundaries. Clear, firm, boundaries.

This might help: https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries

My question is to you is, are you repeating the pattern of before?  Are you at that same first step? You said you didn't want to do this. Can you stop without feeling like you are losing?

Escalate. Cool. Feel bad. Apologize.

No, there is no repeating the pattern again. It stops, now.

I am at a new step; the one where I do not cave. Where I do not grovel and beg for more mistreatment/abuse, disrespect, and further damage to my family.

Losing?

This is not a  game. There are no winners in this. We are all losers.

The kids lost an intact, 2 parent family.

We lost, our home.

2 of the 3 lost all respect for their dad.

I have lost a daughter.

Hell yes we are losers.

Escalate, Cool, Feel bad, Apologize... .you forgot the part of the pattern after apologize.

The part where 1 of the parties involved not only takes ZERO responsibility for their part BUT they blame shift it onto the one who apologized. You forgot the part where the apologizing party allows the Queen of "it's not my fault" back into the home, and abuses the apologizers love for them, to their advantage... .and slowly the process starts all over.

Your friends, yesterday, said "let her go".  :)id they mean her?  Or did they mean "the fight"?

They meant let HER go.

If she wants to chose to lie, deceive, manipulate, take advantage of, disrespect, etc. FINE.

She can go do that some where OTHER than under my roof.

She is 21, in 13.

She is an adult, and if she wants to be an ugly person, then go do it.

Not under my roof.

We're your support group.  We are here to support you.  If any of this feels unsupportive or judgmental, and it may, that's not the intent. We're just asking the hard question of whether your desires and goals and emotions are out of sync.  It happens in these relationships.  All these feelings have been lived by others. We are just trying to help you accomplish what you want to accomplish (the bigger picture). There are no easy answers.

No, there is nothing easy about this.

I am very much looking forward to going to Florida, alone.

Gives the kids time to be 'away' from me (all 3 of my kids).

Gives them time to be on their own, spread their wings. Cut their path in life.

It will give the youngest, the one causing all the problems, a chance to see what life is like on the dark side.

I pray, she wakes up.

[going places]

Idea Having values empowers us and motivates others.

1. I listen to the points of view of others and take them seriously

2. I treat everybody with respect

3. I am always supportive of family and friends

4. I am totally honest in all my dealings with others... .and I expect that same.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries

1. Yes, I listen to other points of view. My other 2 adult children and I can and do have discussions where other points of view are discussed, implemented, and accepted.

2. Respect, is earned. Period.

3."always" supportive, NO.  I do not support breaking the law. I do not support dishonesty, and deception. I do not support manipulation.

4. Yes, I am honest, and very open. I am of the mindset "Say what you mean, Mean what you say".

I expect the same.

Idea Defending boundaries (without values) tends to be shallow, reactive, and confrontational

1. I will not tolerate you getting in my face (stated aggressively)

2. If you do things I don't like, I will respond by doing things that are equally distressing to you

3.You weren't there when I needed you, so I wasn't there when you need me

Etc.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries

1. I will not tolerate intimidation, or aggression. Push me, and you will be met, with the same.

2. If you do things that are crossing my boundary lines, then I will let you know. If you continue to push, I will have to create enough space so that you are not on, or over my boundary line. I will not 'stoop' to your level, I will walk away and let you figure it out yourself.

3. This is cruel, and punishment.

Boundaries w/o values are just a way to play the 'get you back' game. They are not boundaries at all, they are just words to bait a fight.

No thank you.

Workshop Objectives  The key discussion points around values / boundaries are:

   1. Do I know which values are important to maintain my independence, autonomy, safety?

   2. Do I know which values need to be yielded and compromised in order to have a relationship?

   3. What are legitimate / fair values (vs selfish values)?

   4. Do I know how to set limits in a constructive loving way?

   5. How do I  know the tricks and traps? (what not to do)?

https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries

1.Honesty, Integrity, Honor, God's Word.

2.None.

3. All of my values are legit.

4.Yes

5.I will know tricks and traps when my blood pressure begins to rise, and my inner peace is disrupted.

What not to do?

React.

1. How do I handle it if someone is upset or hurt by my values/boundaries?

2. How do I reestablish a value that I failed to protect in the past?

3. How do I respond when someone is trying to violate or test my value/boundaries?

4. Why do I feel guilty or afraid when I consider defending boundaries?

https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries

1. Explain to them that the boundaries in place are for everyone's benefit. Assure them that I love them, but to protect the integrity of the relationship and to protect each of us from getting hurt / causing more damage to the relationship, the boundaries are firm.

2. Have a clear view of that value, and stand firm moving forward.

3.Tell them, then create distance and space between you and them. Let them know, you are serious.

4. Could be because I was weak and never kept the boundaries.

Could be because I feared losing her, which I did anyway.

Could be because if I held the line on a boundary, my 'family' would further shatter.

In the end, me not holding the line on my boundaries got me exactly what HOLDING the line on my boundaries would have got me: Her, leaving.

This way, she can blame it on me.

If I had held fast to my boundaries, it would be her that needed to be held accountable.

[going places]

So I have come to the conclusion I am in Gods way.

It is not my place to "warn" anyone or "reveal" who she is right now to anyone.

God said what's done in darkness will be laid bare for all to see.

I am not God and He does not need my help.my responsibility moving forward is to forgive my baby and her father completely and let it go.

It's killing me and keeping me from moving closer to God.

He has something big for me in Florida and I am going to find it.

It hurts.

Worse than what her dad did and there were times when I was ready to eat a bullet.

But I learned a lot.

The old saying "you can lead a horse to water but u can't make it drink" is true.

If that horse wants to be a jack ass and die of dehydration because it's hell bent on doing it "her way"... .Then I am not going to stand by and watch.

I can't.

So thank you for listening.

Thank u so much more for your prayers.

I covet them.

I love her more than the next breath I draw but if I don't walk away and let her go it will take my last breath.

[thefixermom]

going places, I can somewhat identify with your energy regarding your daughter.  I think there are things you can learn to help you through staying okay when the energy shifts so I hope you keep with this wonderful group of people here.  My DD38 moved across the country recently after staying with us for 3 months.  We have a decades long history of helping, fighting, pleading, worrying, blaming and lots of back and forth.  I had hoped with all my heart our relationship would heal when she was with us this most recent time.  We got along better than we had in the past and I was fervently doing what I could to encourage her to not move so far.  In the end, I lost and she moved... .but I am finding myself so happy to not have her in the house. I never thought I'd say this but "I'm glad she is gone."  Our home has been restored, DD's messes have been cleaned up. We can be ourselves now and not brace ourselves to deflect the next barb coming from her. It is blissful. DH thinks it's a matter of time and she will want to move back with us. He said he might leave me if I said yes!  I told him he doesn't have to worry.  I have learned that rescuing her does no favors for any of us. It keeps her from finding out what strength she has inside and learning new skills to advance her maturity and goals.  In other words, it completely stops her momentum.  And in the end, she still disrespects us.  I do not regret the times we saved her in the past.  God knows what might have happened, however, I have peace in my gut knowing that those times are behind us and it is indeed time to let her go.  If she calls us with a crisis, I will listen with compassion, validate and empathize and tell her that I know she has it in her to come through this.  She may rail at me for not being a good mother but if she moves in with me, she would still rail that any time I didn't give her what she wants.  I wish you well on your move to Florida, whatever it was that is taking you there. I do feel a little sad that you are so far away from all your kids but it seems like this move is okay with you and you are ready for it.  I'm picturing lots of love and friendships waiting for you to arrive so they can begin to materialize. You do sound excited!  Hope to see you here with updates. Best wishes.

[going places]

Fixermom... .

How long was your daughter gone, before she stayed 3 months with you then moved across country?

For the 3 months she was with you, did YOU do anything different (like have boundaries that she was not allowed to cross, etc.) and is that why you two got along so well? Had she changed?

In my mind, I had this 'idea' of how things were 'supposed to go down'.

Man and woman marry.

Kids are born

Kids are raised

Kids fly the nest

Mom and dad downsize and start living the 'golden years'

Kids have grandkids

Kids and grand kids come visit.

Mom and dad grow old and die.

The first 3 on the list happened, but then dad flew the nest.

I tried to keep us together (me and 3 kids) and that didn't go down like the Plan B I had in my head.

NOW I am flying the nest, 1 is going back to college in the fall (he has 2 years left) one is staying in Indy because she has amazing opportunites where she works, and the baby moved in with her dad... .out of the blue.

So my scheme got all jacked up.

However. I am still moving to Florida.

It comes in waves, the sadness. I know in my logical brain what is best, what is good, what I need to do.

Then my mommy brain kicks in, and I don't want to leave w/o seeing her.

I have let her know this and unfortunately now she has all the control; She will dig her heels in and refuse to see me because she knows how badly I want to see her. She knows how much it will kill me to drive away w/o telling her I love her face to face. She can also use this later as a weapon; "You abandoned me".

No, sweet baby, you bailed on me.

Once I get to Florida, I am going to find someone to help me unwind the twisted mess in my head and help me forgive and let go. For real, and forever. The last 4 years have been brutal, and I want to never repeat that again, or carry it with me for the rest of my life... .

I want, to be free!

[going places]

https://bpdfamily.com/content/ending-conflict

Is there a printable copy of this article? This is amazing.

[thefixermom]

Good morning, going places... .

My daughter has come and gone since she was in her early 20's... .lots of chaos, one arrest, some physical violence, rages, huge cash outflow, etc.  This last time she was gone about a year before she stayed 3 months and then moved far away.

Yes, I definitely did different things when she was with us this last time.  I had my boundaries but I also became a patient listener, detached myself emotionally as best I could, stayed very composed but sincere and validated her.  It helped immensely.  But there were times when I was still deeply hurt or frustrated. For the most part I did not let those feelings show because they typically triggered a very unsympathetic and cold reaction from her. I did not want to go there again.

Like you, I did not pick a good father for my DD.  We are divorced and I'm married to a real nice man, who has been there for my DD more than for his own grown daughters.  But he finally got to where he said we have to stop, and I agree with him.

I think with your "scheme getting all jacked up," you are now open to something much better than a mere human could have planned.  I'm very excited for you because these types of occasions in life only happen when we surrender and let go and see what the Universe is going to give us.  Think of it as a second (or third or fourth, ) chance!  I have had major interruptions in my life like that and it was always so exhilarating!  When thoughts of your kids, any of them, come to mind, just give thanks and send them some good wishes and get back to what's happening in front of you.  Time to write a new script!

I have come to predict my DD's responses to me, too, and that's why right now I am not at all pursuing her because she loves any chance to make herself unavailable to me to demonstrate her rejection.  Any contact comes from her to me and after a couple weeks of not contacting her, she sent me a couple texts and calls. I respond cordially but it is on my time.  No more of her saying, "This has to happen NOW!" and watching me jump to her aid just because she let something slide until it became urgent.  I'm allowing her to feel the consequences of her choices.  I have always made it easier for her, feeling such sympathy for her situation.  No more.  I think she is beginning to sense it, too.  Either way, that's the new norm for me.

There's nothing I can do to change our DD's story about us.  They will tell whoever will listen.  I've come to be okay with that, too.  Let her rant on about me and how bad and evil I am.  See where it gets her.  People who know and love me see who I truly am.  The next time my DD gives me any lip, I'm going to tell her, "When you are ready to move out of this horrible negative place you live, you will see what an amazing and wonderful mother you have!"  and then I'm going to say goodbye and hang up.

You can begin the forgiving right now, going places.  Think about it.  Our DD's are not in a happy place. They are presently worse off than we are.  I completely forgive my DD for her choices.  The liberty I feel in that is it (her misery) is no longer a part of my life.  Like you, I love her with all my heart... .but now I am free to love and be me and go and do and act how I please.  It's a wonderful feeling. I am sad for my DD to live in a land of chaos and unhappiness. I hope and pray she sees that she can make other choices but I'm fine letting her live there and not having it disrupt my life again.  I know that she could lose her life over these delusions.  At the very least, she will have a miserable life and hurt others.  But I'm not going to add to that misery by being one more unhappy person on the planet.  Guilt does not have a hold on me any more. Gratitude does!  Hey, you and I made it this far... .let's get about making the most of it.

You ARE free, my dear!

xoxo

[going places]

Thank you.

Thank you so much.