divorcing from the same home

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

It's been about 10 days since I told my wife that I want out of our marriage.  I did it during marriage therapy and said that it sounds to me like this relationship is not fixable- her expectations are impossible.  The therapist agreed that from my point of view, that her position on my anger is impossible and unhealthy.  She stormed out in a dramatic showing of tears, and that was it.

Except that we still live together.

We have 2 kids we are trying to raise together.

Here is the insane part:  We are going to continue in therapy, but call it "Couples Therapy."  I want to separate with grace, consideration and love. 

I don't hate my wife- I love her more than anyone in the world.  We've been together for 25 years this year.  I cannot just turn my back on that history- I'm only 48 years old.  She and I have been together our entire adult lives.  I have compassion for her suffering- even that suffering that, because of the borderline, she places firmly and securely in my lap.  The troubles in our relationship that she sees as my problems are truly her own.  Projection at its finest.  I get triggered sometimes, but do understand that her defenses make it easier for her to cope if she can blame me.  After 25 years, I have come to learn that it is not worth the pain, tears and efforts to try and change her worldview, or her behavior.  Don't get me wrong- it was my campaign for many years to try and get her to see "the truth" and once seen, get her to change the way she relates to me.  I now know that this is just as impossible as getting her to see the truth about me.

I want to separate from this toxic and smothering marriage in a way that allows us to continue to be a family for our kids.  At least now, there are no plans for either of us to seek comforts from another relationship, so we think it most cost-effective, and emotionally prudent for our kids to stay in the same house.  This house is a rental, but a really awesome one.  We can see and hear the ocean, 24 / 7, and the neighborhood is a pleasant one in which to live.  We can start to carve out separate space by separating the upstairs bedroom (mine), from the downstairs bedrooms (hers and the kids).

The benefits from separating this way are countless- less financially draining than maintaining 2 separate households, share of custody, care of pets, plus- we can remain important figures in each other's lives.

I do not want to lose her- I just want my sex (and my emotional health) to be outside of her jurisdiction.  Sure, at some point, I will heal enough to consider moving on and seeking a relationship with someone else.  That someone may not be too keen on dating someone who lives with their ex-wife.  I know this, but do not see this living arrangement to be permanent- just the best one for the transition phase of our lives.  If in the future, we are successful in remaining best friends and minimal-conflict parents together, and there is a special someone I want to bring into my life as a partner, I would home that my new partner would have the emotional maturity to see that there is nothing threatening by maintaining ties to an ex with whom there are shared children.

She is not at the same place as me in this.  She is still hoping that we will work this out, but is willing to consider that we are, in fact, done with this marriage.  She has not been happy for a long time, she tells me.  She sees that our marriage has fallen apart because of my inability to be intimate and close with her.  Proximity is very important to her ability to feel close, and I just work too much for her to feel a sense of proximity.  She has no problem with the idea of never having sex with me again- since this was her plan for our married future, anyway.  I have some issues with the reality of what she imagines goes on in my head- she believes that my psychiatrist convinced me she is borderline and directed me to leave her based on this crazy diagnosis.  She continues to ask if this is "really over?" but I do think she is coming around to seeing that since I am not fixable (a surgeon cannot change the way surgery is practiced, plus I have intimacy issues- I really don't, but she needs to blame me) that I may be right- this marriage is terrible, and probably not rescuable.

So, how can we possibly do this?  Is this crazy to try?  Any sage advice from others who may have tried to separate in a kind and gentle way?

I post this because there has been a run of a lot of posts in the Staying section where going No Contact and separating are almost vindictive weapons to be used against the partner with BPD.  Could I be the only one who still loves his crazy spouse wBPD, but wants to divorce, and needs to stay in close contact because of shared parenting goals?   

I find myself in the Staying and Undecided sections of this website a lot because I am NOT trying to totally disengage from this relationship, and the Leaving sections seem to have the same undercurrent themes of "the only way out is completely out." The discussions in the other sections of this website have been invaluable in giving me tools to be effective in the parts of my life that are "staying" and here for the parts of me and my life that are "leaving."

Any advice for a guy who wants to leave AND stay?

Surg_Bear

[Surg_Bear]

It's been about 10 days since I told my wife that I want out of our marriage.  I did it during marriage therapy and said that it sounds to me like this relationship is not fixable- her expectations are impossible.  The therapist agreed that from my point of view, that her position on my anger is impossible and unhealthy.  She stormed out in a dramatic showing of tears, and that was it.

Except that we still live together.

We have 2 kids we are trying to raise together.

Here is the insane part:  We are going to continue in therapy, but call it "Couples Therapy."  I want to separate with grace, consideration and love. 

I don't hate my wife- I love her more than anyone in the world.  We've been together for 25 years this year.  I cannot just turn my back on that history- I'm only 48 years old.  She and I have been together our entire adult lives.  I have compassion for her suffering- even that suffering that, because of the borderline, she places firmly and securely in my lap.  The troubles in our relationship that she sees as my problems are truly her own.  Projection at its finest.  I get triggered sometimes, but do understand that her defenses make it easier for her to cope if she can blame me.  After 25 years, I have come to learn that it is not worth the pain, tears and efforts to try and change her worldview, or her behavior.  Don't get me wrong- it was my campaign for many years to try and get her to see "the truth" and once seen, get her to change the way she relates to me.  I now know that this is just as impossible as getting her to see the truth about me.

I want to separate from this toxic and smothering marriage in a way that allows us to continue to be a family for our kids.  At least now, there are no plans for either of us to seek comforts from another relationship, so we think it most cost-effective, and emotionally prudent for our kids to stay in the same house.  This house is a rental, but a really awesome one.  We can see and hear the ocean, 24 / 7, and the neighborhood is a pleasant one in which to live.  We can start to carve out separate space by separating the upstairs bedroom (mine), from the downstairs bedrooms (hers and the kids).

The benefits from separating this way are countless- less financially draining than maintaining 2 separate households, share of custody, care of pets, plus- we can remain important figures in each other's lives.

I do not want to lose her- I just want my sex (and my emotional health) to be outside of her jurisdiction.  Sure, at some point, I will heal enough to consider moving on and seeking a relationship with someone else.  That someone may not be too keen on dating someone who lives with their ex-wife.  I know this, but do not see this living arrangement to be permanent- just the best one for the transition phase of our lives.  If in the future, we are successful in remaining best friends and minimal-conflict parents together, and there is a special someone I want to bring into my life as a partner, I would home that my new partner would have the emotional maturity to see that there is nothing threatening by maintaining ties to an ex with whom there are shared children.

She is not at the same place as me in this.  She is still hoping that we will work this out, but is willing to consider that we are, in fact, done with this marriage.  She has not been happy for a long time, she tells me.  She sees that our marriage has fallen apart because of my inability to be intimate and close with her.  Proximity is very important to her ability to feel close, and I just work too much for her to feel a sense of proximity.  She has no problem with the idea of never having sex with me again- since this was her plan for our married future, anyway.  I have some issues with the reality of what she imagines goes on in my head- she believes that my psychiatrist convinced me she is borderline and directed me to leave her based on this crazy diagnosis.  She continues to ask if this is "really over?" but I do think she is coming around to seeing that since I am not fixable (a surgeon cannot change the way surgery is practiced, plus I have intimacy issues- I really don't, but she needs to blame me) that I may be right- this marriage is terrible, and probably not rescuable.

So, how can we possibly do this?  Is this crazy to try?  Any sage advice from others who may have tried to separate in a kind and gentle way?

I post this because there has been a run of a lot of posts in the Staying section where going No Contact and separating are almost vindictive weapons to be used against the partner with BPD.  Could I be the only one who still loves his crazy spouse wBPD, but wants to divorce, and needs to stay in close contact because of shared parenting goals?   

I find myself in the Staying and Undecided sections of this website a lot because I am NOT trying to totally disengage from this relationship, and the Leaving sections seem to have the same undercurrent themes of "the only way out is completely out." The discussions in the other sections of this website have been invaluable in giving me tools to be effective in the parts of my life that are "staying" and here for the parts of me and my life that are "leaving."

Any advice for a guy who wants to leave AND stay?

Surg_Bear

[Turkish]

Do you think this will be healthy for the kids? And in the long term, do you see the r/s as healthy for you? An aunt and uncle of my Ex has a similar arrangement. They never divorced, and the kids are grown, but they continue to co-habitate, doing their own things. I never knew, but I don't think it's the same as your situation. You still sound like you are in conflict.

My T discussed something that two of his clients set up. The couple divorced, but wanted the kids to remain in the only home they ever knew. So they rented a small apartment, and every other week, each parent took turns living at the home or the apartment. He said that it seemed to work for them.

[Fleur2013]

I am trying to live with exBPD boyfriend for 6 months until he can finish school. Part of me will always love but I would rather go. I consider myself to be pretty understanding but I don't think I could date someone who lived with their ex and it may be more confusing to your children. How old are they?

[terranova79]

Surg_Bear,

I feel for you.  I am in a very similar boat.  In the middle of divorcing my wife of 7 years (12 year relationship in total), with two small children to boot.  I have always cared deeply about my stb-uBPDx, but the verbal abuse, interrogations, and hostility towards my family made the relationship impossible.

When I initially told her I wanted a divorce about 1.5 months ago, she suggested we live together for a few months before formally starting divorce proceedings so that our youngest could get a bit older.  :)espite basically keeping contact to a minimum and me sleeping on the couch, it was not enough to even make that interim period last.  She would become angry and triggered at too many things and once again started lashing out at me.  Within a matter of weeks she was demanding I move out (and pay for all of that with my own money) and promising to throw a party to celebrate me being out of her life.

In short, the very same BPD qualities that made a marriage impossible also made it impossible to even hold things together at a very minimal level for the sake of the kids.

I've been in my own place for a few weeks ago and while it is definitely lonely, I don't get yelled at all the time and my stb-uBPDx seems to be calming down lately.

[Surg_Bear]

Do you think this will be healthy for the kids? And in the long term, do you see the r/s as healthy for you? An aunt and uncle of my Ex has a similar arrangement. They never divorced, and the kids are grown, but they continue to co-habitate, doing their own things. I never knew, but I don't think it's the same as your situation. You still sound like you are in conflict.

My T discussed something that two of his clients set up. The couple divorced, but wanted the kids to remain in the only home they ever knew. So they rented a small apartment, and every other week, each parent took turns living at the home or the apartment. He said that it seemed to work for them.

I do think this will be healthy for the kids.  My oldest is going to be leaving for college this fall, so she is less of a concern.  Except that she was 2 1/2 when we divorced the first time- we were in separate states for 5 years- from 3 to age 8.  The current divorce will be more of a PTSD / triggering scenario for her.  We also have a 7 year old daughter (from our second marriage together) who will be seriously affected by her big sister leaving for college, and if I leave home, her Daddy.  I find this to be disheartening, to say the least.

While there is obviously some active conflict going on between us two parents, mostly it is quiet suffering and little more than emotional discussions.  We have only had one, full-on yelling match-up, type argument in the past 11 years.  Our conflict is quiet and barely noticeable by the children. We haven't even announced the plans for divorce to our kids.  We are carrying on with family activities as if nothing is going on.  This is how we wish for it to continue (except that we DO plan to tell them of the divorce plan).  In 2 weeks, we are going to Disneyland for a vacation that has been planned for almost a year, now.  It will be uncomfortable for the two parents, but for the eldest and her best friend from high school, and the youngest, it will be a blast.

I know that it may seem almost too good to be true- How can we truly be BPD and non in a separating / divorce situation, and have it be calm, thought-out, planned and intentional?

We are both in intensive, core-focused psychoanalytic analysis type individual psychotherapy, and couples therapy.  This means that the two of us combined spend 8 hours a week in therapy sessions- 2 hrs individual and 1 hr couples for me, and 4 - 5 hrs individual and 1 hr couples for her.

We are doing a LOT to keep our home as happy and healthy a family environment as humanly possible.

This all said, I am worried that we aren't going to be "separate" enough to make a difference.  She continues to be a pwBPD, and despite better boundaries by me, she still does her push-pull, splitting, and circular, impossible arguing at me without much change.  I can stop things more easily, and have caught myself validating and even doing some eggshell walking, despite telling myself that since I am leaving her, I no longer have to protect her emotions from mine, at all cost.  I have no claim to be the best validator, or best boundary layer / maintainer.  I fail and fall from grace readily.  I recognize trigger, and hold back reacting out like I have in the past.  I don't need to engage the crazy any more.

For some reason, stepping away from engaging the crazy has made life with her far less crazy.  Because there has been some relief from the enmeshed, co-suffering, the borderline and down-right crazy behavior has settled down quite a bit.  A fly on the wall might actually mistake our current relationship status as an improvement- if not a full-on truce.

I think I am asking my fellow forum members and site moderators to consider that my marriage, and the subsequent redefining of the relationship, are not quite the ordinary BPD relationship failure.  Both partners are doing the work of serious individual therapy, AND, we are committed to making this work by seeing a Couples Therapist- the same one that helped us try and rescue the marriage in the first place.  Because of these considerations, I don't think that the typical preconceived notions about BPD relationships fully apply. 

However, I am not so arrogant to think that this is a slam dunk.  This is going to be harder than being married, in many ways.  We have to remain friends, but be open to allowing the other grow and flourish as an individual walking away.  I can't think of too many other scenarios that are as emotionally hurtful as watching an ex-spouse, but current friend grow and walk away from the loving relationship to find another.  This is going to be hard for me to witness, and it will be devastating to her, when the time comes for me to look outside the nest.

I have no plans to be celibate for the rest of my life.  I have every intention to search for another significant other who is willing to accept me and all of my flaws and hardships, and who I feel is a great, if not perfect match for me.  I know that it would be much easier for my wife to accept if that person is a man because she has said as much to me.  I might find my match in a man, or maybe not.  I think I could easily find a mutually satisfying, and emotionally preferable relationship with another woman.  Suffice it to say, I am not anywhere near being ready to even approach that bridge, let alone cross it.  I need to work on fixing my hurt- I still cry about the loss of this marriage.  The grief feels like the amount of grief I had when my parents each died.  I have cried more in the past 3 months, than I have in the past 30 years of my life combined.  Becoming enmeshed, suffering emotional abuse and sexual neglect, and finally taking a stand for myself all have caused significant, palpable hurt in my heart.  I would be naive to think that I could just hop on to the next horse and ride 'em into the sunset.

I realize this is difficult to comment on, but I do hope that others will read my story, and offer advice, or their own points of view, to help me make this part of my life's journey a little less painful.

Thank you all for reading this, and holding my situation in your minds and hearts.

Love,

Surg_Bear

[Turkish]

S_B,

I get the crying more in a short time than in the past 30 years...

You're embarking on a journey with an unknown destination. Its great that you and your wife are n therapy; for both of you, and for your kids. Is there any hope of reconciliation? Maybe not. But if you and her can work to make this work to the best outcome for all of you, then maybe that's a win. Different situation since my Ex had another man, but I had to live with her for 4 months until she could comfortably move out, but the Staying tools did work for me.