She wants to move forward - avoid (my) feelings

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi all. 

I have been struggling through a couple of bad recent months with my uBPDw of 16 years. We have a S9 and S4 together.

In June, she went to Hawaii on a writer's conference, maxed out a credit card after agreeing not to spend money beyond her trip needs, and has now framed it all as an investment in herself. She is a life addict to needing constant validation (maybe we all are,  ). I am less and less inclined to be her font of validation.

At MC, I have stated clearly that I felt angry and betrayed. I have started a new account in my name only to rebuild our savings (zeroed out to pay the credit card debt). She is upset that I am controlling her and not giving her a say in our finances. For the record, I reconcile our accounts every 2 weeks and give her a number to create a budget. Sometimes, she consults me with questions and other times, I look at where are non-routine expenses are going, including my own personal allowance. I am the single income earner.

I kept a strong boundary. I also am maintaining a boundary around my wife stating how I feel about something without asking me first. It was a difficult MC session, lots of emotions. But the principal point my wife makes is that I need to get over my upsets and move on to solutions. This is funny coming from her, since one of her go to complaints to me is to stop fixing things and be present with what she is feeling.

The MC reinforced that I was feeling betrayed, the betrayal is not about money but deeper, basically about the fact that she spent the money because she felt seen, loved and validated by salespeople she didn't even know but continually rejects me and her children's (at least S9's) affection, love and attention. Basically, she doesn't want to hear it. My honesty in my feelings is causing her a lot of shame and discomfort. She has reframed this as an investment in herself, sort of projecting that shame out on to me if don't accept it as okay. It's not okay for me. I am sticking with my feelings and boundaries.

But, we are both more reactive at this point. Truthfully, I am feeling done with this marriage. Sort of like formflier in his recent post, I feel discouraged and the air is out of my sails. The energy to stay in this RS is beginning to tip toward anything that I conceivably get out of it, with the sole exception that I see my beautiful sons every day.

MC sessions may be coming to an end, as she is once again blaming the MC for choosing sides, ganging up on her. I think I am going to focus on my own T now, and continue to live as roommates until I can document enough to protect my custody rights. I just don't see any agreements that we reach nowadays where she actually agrees to anything beyond what she wants. I don't want to live like this anymore.

Feeling a bit down. :'(

[takingandsending]

Hi all. 

I have been struggling through a couple of bad recent months with my uBPDw of 16 years. We have a S9 and S4 together.

In June, she went to Hawaii on a writer's conference, maxed out a credit card after agreeing not to spend money beyond her trip needs, and has now framed it all as an investment in herself. She is a life addict to needing constant validation (maybe we all are,  ). I am less and less inclined to be her font of validation.

At MC, I have stated clearly that I felt angry and betrayed. I have started a new account in my name only to rebuild our savings (zeroed out to pay the credit card debt). She is upset that I am controlling her and not giving her a say in our finances. For the record, I reconcile our accounts every 2 weeks and give her a number to create a budget. Sometimes, she consults me with questions and other times, I look at where are non-routine expenses are going, including my own personal allowance. I am the single income earner.

I kept a strong boundary. I also am maintaining a boundary around my wife stating how I feel about something without asking me first. It was a difficult MC session, lots of emotions. But the principal point my wife makes is that I need to get over my upsets and move on to solutions. This is funny coming from her, since one of her go to complaints to me is to stop fixing things and be present with what she is feeling.

The MC reinforced that I was feeling betrayed, the betrayal is not about money but deeper, basically about the fact that she spent the money because she felt seen, loved and validated by salespeople she didn't even know but continually rejects me and her children's (at least S9's) affection, love and attention. Basically, she doesn't want to hear it. My honesty in my feelings is causing her a lot of shame and discomfort. She has reframed this as an investment in herself, sort of projecting that shame out on to me if don't accept it as okay. It's not okay for me. I am sticking with my feelings and boundaries.

But, we are both more reactive at this point. Truthfully, I am feeling done with this marriage. Sort of like formflier in his recent post, I feel discouraged and the air is out of my sails. The energy to stay in this RS is beginning to tip toward anything that I conceivably get out of it, with the sole exception that I see my beautiful sons every day.

MC sessions may be coming to an end, as she is once again blaming the MC for choosing sides, ganging up on her. I think I am going to focus on my own T now, and continue to live as roommates until I can document enough to protect my custody rights. I just don't see any agreements that we reach nowadays where she actually agrees to anything beyond what she wants. I don't want to live like this anymore.

Feeling a bit down. :'(

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Cat Familiar]

Sorry you're going through such a difficult time. It's so typical for pwBPD to try to get emotional nourishment from people who don't know them, while simultaneously refusing our love and support. She broke an agreement about not overspending and now she's trying to shift the shame to you.

It's easy to feel hopeless and discouraged when we get a true picture of our pwBPD's motivations and self-interests, while they repeatedly break agreements and seem to care not at all about our feelings.

All I can suggest is to stick with the self honesty. Things ultimately change one way or another... .

[formflier]

 

What does your boundary about "not telling you how you feel... without asking"... look like. 

This is issue I still work on... .it's a hard nut to crack.

FF

[formflier]

 

Also... what is the plan to change finances... .to protect the money.

[takingandsending]

Well. Just had a big argument. I know the rules for talking with my wife, but I threw them out the window. Ended up just leaving. My boundary around her putting words in my mouth looks like "No. I am not letting you speak for me. If you want to know what I am feeling, ask me." Incidentally she never does. I am calling her on the bs because I no longer fear the outcome. If my wife sees me as a persecutor and bully, I cannot stop her. All I can do at this point is document so that the courts have a record of what I have tried to do for her and what I do for the kids.

As far as protecting money, i have a personal acct open. My aim is to move my paycheck into my acct and pay out a little over what we spend per paycheck and be open to needs that exceed that as they arise. She gave me the 2 credit cards to keep. She opened her own personal acct today for her business. I am concerned that she may transfer funds to that acct when she wants to take another self help class. I requested her to operate that act off positive cash flow her business makes which brought on the argument. I am controlling and constricting her and not open to her making money. I have supported three different businesses of hers, paid off her debt at which point she promptly quit her job, basically been a good little provider for what wishes I could fulfill. Too much. I can't do this dance anymore.

[takingandsending]

I meditated after I left last night and came back and did my best to offer an apology for the blow up. At MC session last weekend, the MC pointed out that I was operating out of fear/protection for self/family,  and she was helping my wife understand why that might be as I have no insight into my wife's knowledge of herself that she would never break our agreements in the same situation without communicating to me. My wife basically said that she couldn't make that promise. She felt it was unfair of MC to ask her that, and what did she want her to say?

She sees breaking our agreement as an act of self love and allowing/accepting others to love her. I.e. the salespeople loved her, deeply validated her.

I see breaking our agreement as a pattern of broken agreements and seeking self worth/self value/validation in external things. Ultimately, I don't have faith, based on my experience, that the external things will provide intrinsic, lasting value to her self acceptance.

Maybe there is a SET for this. I guess I can empathize. It's not like we all aren't seeking external validation to fill in those places where we have a hard time loving ourselves. I suppose it's why I am feeling rejected (again) right now. I still look for validation of my own self by constantly giving, by trying when most others would walk away. I think I am going to talk to her about separation. She opened the door last night, saying that if I can't accept her as she is, she has to move in a direction she is unwilling to because of the kids. I don't intend to make our sons responsible for our unhappy partnership. Not at all fair to them. Or to us.

[formflier]

be open to needs that exceed that as they arise. 

Not a good idea... .(IMO)

Figure out a set amount that she can have to spend on her purposes.  Send it to her same time... same amount.

That is what she can count on.

If she wants more... .she can earn it... .

If you go down this road... .you have to hold... .don't capitulate... it will make it worse.

FF

[takingandsending]

FF - you are probably right. I will have to look through spending on essentials records over the past year and work out a good rolling average and add a bit to that.

All in all, I am probably going to start posting on the co parenting and divorce boards. I am about 90% certain that's where this needs to head. For now, I feel okay about it. I have positive regard for my wife. I know that she has an illness, she generally has good intentions and wants to help others. Not a bad person. Just when the rubber meets the road, she struggles, as I also do, to bring that to fruition. I have even been able, on reflection, to answer a question someone in my NAMI support group asked me, "Is she a bad mom?" No. She isn't a bad mom. She is good and bad like most parents. She is a selfish mom, though, when her needs are in competition with her children's needs.

Feeling more peaceful and easier. My T (now that MC appears to be ending) did agree that I could try to talk about BPD and treatment with her as a last ditch effort to remain in this RS and help my wife. I don't know if I will consider that. I have read so many posts here that the backlash may be more damaging (especially as we still have to co-parent) than helpful.

[formflier]

 

Is she diagnosed?  Even had formal evaluations?

Please keep posting over here as well... .

It's important not to predict the future based on her... .

Much better to predict the future based on you...

More later... .!

FF

[MaroonLiquid]

All in all, I am probably going to start posting on the co parenting and divorce boards. I am about 90% certain that's where this needs to head.

As FF said, don't let "it" lead you, you decide what you want you you lead "it".  You have a say in it also.  It may still end up in divorce, but you have to decide what you want first.  When everything first seems to fall apart, that's the hardest.  It was so hard for me the first 6 -7 months of separation.  I was moved by the wind instead of standing firm.  I am now trying to lead by standing firm and strong.  That is what I need.  That is what she needs.  She sees it as a threat because "control" is the only thing she could control.  Now that that is being taken away, she is left with herself.  It's tough at first.  Take it from me.  You want to step in and save them, you want to end it.  The funny thing is, I found myself living in her emotion rather than what I wanted for me.  Once I made the switch about 5 months ago, I started to see a difference.  it is still hard at times.  Yesterday was difficult not knowing what the heck triggered her, and as usual, she went to what used to work.  It hasn't in a while and it is frustrating her and at the same time giving her a new found respect for me and evening her emotions out.  It is a slow process.

[takingandsending]

I am leading in this case. I am finding a lot more self respect these days, and I really don't want to continue in an RS with little return for me. The big thing for me is that the kids get the best parents possible. The only way to see what is possible is by looking at all of the possibilities.

FF - our MC had a long practice in the public mental health sector with BPD patients, is skilled in CBT/DBT, prior to entering private practice. She provided the "diagnosis". No, it has never been officially recorded as BPD, based on ease of insurance coverage. No, my wife has never been informed of "diagnosis" over concerns that it may do more harm than good. My wife is 47. Her behaviors are entrenched, and she has the added element of being a life coach/healer practitioner, which is a place for her to retreat when she encounters others who may disagree with her behaviors. She is no monster, but she does engage in the standard BPD traits - verbal abuse, rage, depression, projection, distorted memories, minor self injury (picking holes in her skin), dissociation, poor history of interpersonal relations - idealization/devaluation, difficulties with impulse control, finds it difficult to apologize for anything, extremely sensitive to sounds, smells, touch, consistently feels invalidated.

W was in T last half of 2014 and, with my learning communication tools here, things were progressing in a better direction. Since late 2014, she stopped seeing T and began emotional freedom technique (EFT) tapping, access consciousness and other self help programs and believes that she is healed. Now she wants me to heal, and she feels rejected if I do not allow her to facilitate that process. I have lived through these "healings" over our entire marriage. I have supported multiple businesses of hers. I am not willing to repeat any further turns of this wheel.

To be clear, she does not want a divorce. At this point, I am 90% certain that I do. The big change of heart for me came from the real emotional freedom that I felt when she was in Hawaii, and I was parenting my sons. We had a wonderful week, challenging, ups and downs, lots of love and lots of appreciation and nurturing. I have these experiences with my sons when my wife is with us, but the quantity and quality is less and the amount of energy that I have to expend to have these experiences while negotiating my BPD RS with her is simply much greater. I was already leaning this way. It didn't help that she disrespected our agreement and spent a lot of money in Hawaii. And she quite simply cannot cope with her shame, and I no longer want to. Maybe, I can continue with boundary work to make remaining in this RS tolerable. Maybe I could expend even more energy and convince her to seek treatment. In the end, I don't want to count on her changing as my basis for staying, and I am no longer convinced that I can change enough to want to be in this RS.

[Cat Familiar]

Oh, I feel for you!   

I've lived in several communities with new-agey practitioners who attended dubious seminars and then proclaimed themselves experts in some esoteric field. I'm sure some of them were effective in helping people, but for many, I believe it was seen as an easy way to make money, though it probably didn't work out that way.

Suddenly they're the experts and they want to "fix" their friends and relatives. And g-d help you if you don't understand their paradigm. 

[formflier]

 

I also feel for you... .and understand your frustration.

I would encourage you to lay it all on the line... .before considering divorce.  After all... what is the worst that can happen... she gets mad and divorces you?

And... .she just might get back into treatment and head in right direction.

FF

[takingandsending]

CF, I don't want to disparage my wife's efforts. She is trying, and sometimes these things really do help for a while. Nothing sticks, because the underlying causes are never truly addressed. And, as long as she continues to avoid her feelings (and mine), incremental progress is difficult. Even for people in treatment, it's difficult. And, just because she isn't in recovery doesn't mean that she can't do good and help others. I really do support that. Even if you never help anyone, your positive intention will bring about a better connection when next you meet up with that person. Okay, I am Buddhist, so admittedly, I do believe that there is more than this single lifetime to consider. The need for constant understanding, validation and acceptance of healing modalities that I find questionable, however, wears me down. I don't really want to do that anymore, but my reluctance, which is palpable, even when I say nice words, triggers a lot of reactions in W.

FF, As far as laying it on the line, I asked that very question on the divorce/legal board, and the sentiment there is DO NOT DO THAT. Unless I am ready to go through with separation/divorce right away. I see the sense in this. I am not prepared for separation. I need to understand what my likely spousal support/child support will be, what type of custody schedule could work for me and then document both are non-agreed financial expenditures and my time caring for my sons. When I have enough documentation, then I can make that last ditch appeal. Before then, it may only trigger large abandonment dysregulation and lead to unnecessary upheaval in everyone's lives, most significantly the kids.

I will be honest, I waffle whenever I think about not seeing my sons every day. It really is a knife in my heart thinking about it. But I so want to do what is right for them. And my thinking is shifting around to the belief that maybe, just maybe, their lives will be better not seeing me every day but seeing at least a non-damaged parent part of the time. I don't know that I am giving them that staying with my wife right now. I am doing the best I can, but my wife and I sure as heck are not modeling a good RS for them to see. And the energy wear and tear of dealing with BPD kind of takes its toll on how well I even model loving, stable parental attachment for them.

FF, you must feel something similar, given how you are struggling to parent your kids together with your wife. When agreements are so hard won and so easily discarded, what sort of lessons are we teaching our kids? I really hate this illness.

[formflier]

FF, you must feel something similar, given how you are struggling to parent your kids together with your wife. When agreements are so hard won and so easily discarded, what sort of lessons are we teaching our kids? I really hate this illness.

In my case... .I believe I am picking the "least worse" of two bad options. 

To be completely honest... .in the last few months... .things have been better... especially about "conflict".  I let her own it... I walk away... everyone returns to baseline fairly quick.

Negotiations are still a sticking point...

Back to my point about why I stay... .and would encourage you to stay.

My wife's sister is a bit "worse" that she is about the severity of her symptoms.  My brother in law (now ex) divorced her after she cheated... .lots of BPD drama.  Including faking an injury to try to get brother in law thrown in jail.

A recording of the event saved him.  My wife's sister drove up street... .slammed her arm in car door several times... .and said my brother in law did it.  Cops came to arrest him... .cops listened to recording and realized she was lying.  He wimped out and didn't press charges.

Anyway... .things got way worse after the divorce.  Lots of alienation... .conflict went up... .counseling was used as something to bludgeon each other and kids with.  Oldest kid has attempted suicide ( I think he wasn't really trying... .but wanting drama... but still).  He is most likely going to flunk out of high school. 

Next boy down is a promiscuous idiot that nobody can control... .he won't listen to either parent... and if they try to force him to do anything he cries to counselors.

Youngest daughter... .is... .maybe going to be ok. 

He and I both think things would be somewhat better if he had sucked it up and stayed... .he didn't know about tools, BPD or any of that.

No way to tell for sure... .

Last... I do agree with legal board... .get ready to separate... .then decide to stay (ok a bit different than they say it... .).

You see... .when leaving is an option... .it empowers you to hold to boundaries better... .it reduces your fear.

FF

[takingandsending]

FF - thanks. And sorry to hear such hardships for your nephews and niece. What type of custody did your brother in law have? In my state, they tend to push for 50/50 even when one parent is less than ideal (and I mean waayyyyy less).

Any way I slice it, whether I stay or go, I need the communication tools and understanding and boundaries because we will still be parenting our kids. But, I would not have to put up with a barrage of criticism and acted out anger as I did tonight and many nights. I know and use the tools, but truly, I get exhausted from dealing with her, even knowing that her emotions had nothing to do with me. Still, I appreciate your words and will see how the next several months progress

[formflier]

I get exhausted from dealing with her, 

Then don't... .

Use boundaries... .consistently... .

Boundaries are for you... .not for her... .let her own the exhaustion.


Answers:  They have 50/50 custody.  However... .he is the breadwinner.  She seems similar to your wife in the business area (piddles around with idea after idea)... .which is another reason I brought it up.

So... when he is working... she gets them.

Then... .even though it is in the agreement that kids come back and exit house in 10 minutes... .he will wait in driveway 20 minutes (routinely). 

She actually will try to get them moving (by yelling at them)... .which actually slows them down.  Then she will flop over to trying to be their friend.  It is rare she acts like a parent.

My brother in law has basically written off his 16 year old and rarely sees him.  He's usually off smoking pot.

Counselors keep stressing to both of them that they need to have a low stress environment so he won't try to kill himself again.  So... .he does what he wants.

Last thought.  A divorce decree is a worthless piece of paper... .UNLESS... .you are will to go back to court to enforce what is in there.  Every little thing.

That costs money... .time... more drama.

pwBPD live for drama.

He has gone back and enforced some things... .so... .immediately after he "wins" that... .she will "act up" somewhere else.

He filed... .didn't think he could stand it anymore and was going to try and protect money (wife kept spending on "businesses".  She also cheated (I believe just to "fight" with him).

So... since he filed she gets to keep being the victim.   

Last thought for now.  Build the life you want while married... .FOR YOU!  And your kids.  Use boundaries to support that and protect that.  Make sure that life is full of healthy emotional choices... .if you do that... .low chance your boundaries will be manipulative.

Then... .let you wife do... .what she will do.

Any time an area is "exhausting"... .think boundary to protect your energy.

FF