Creating a validating environment

[vortex of confusion]

I have been thinking about the topic of validation. . .

I have seen a lot of people, including myself, struggle with validation.

I know that in parenting circles, there is a lot of stuff about creating a validating home environment for kids.

I am not quite sure how to articulate what I am thinking. . .

An example of when it came up: Last night, I wasn't feeling that great. Nothing big. Just normal female stuff.

He asks, "Are you okay?"

Me: No

Him: (He seemed shocked that I said no. I don't remember exactly what he said but then he gets up in my face to give me a kiss.)

Me: I said no. I don't want you to do anything.

Him: (He moves in to give me a kiss anyway.)

Me: (I turn my head away as I say:) No means no.

He got kind of pizzy about it and sulks off. I wasn't trying to be mean to him. I wasn't feeling well and had been having some indigestion. It wasn't a big deal. I just was not wanting to have him in my face and I wasn't really wanting to be touched.

I realize how invalidated he must have felt in that moment. From his side of things, he was trying to be loving and supportive. On my side, I was trying to get space and set some boundaries.

I was trying to do some research on the topic and came across an article about creating a validating corporate environment. It caught my attention because it gives three levels for creating a validating environment. The first level is basic civility. If basic civility is not achieved, then that kind of negates everything else.

The article is here: www.drivingresultsthroughculture.com/create-a-validating-corporate-culture/

I tend to be pretty sensitive to rejection so I try really hard not to outright reject others. Sometimes, setting boundaries feels like rejection.

Thoughts?

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[takingandsending]

It's a good article.

Having a boundary can be threatening. In my FOO, boundaries were not really acceptable. We were a one-for-all and all-for-one family, with the exception that my mom got to rage and we had to fall in line, or else.

So the question I ask myself and, now, you is: Why is setting a boundary not civil, acknowledging or validating?

A boundary isn't disrespectful. It doesn't take credit for other's actions or diminish their actions. A boundary doesn't insist that someone else can't have their feelings. Do you agree?

When does a boundary become not civil, acknowledging or validating? Do you have examples? Is there a way you could have acknowledged your H's intent but still held your boundary on contact? What would that have looked like?

[Ysabel]

I agree that boundaries can "feel" like rejection to anyone, let alone the pwBPD. In my experience with my BPD husband, even though I try to validate, empathize and tell the truth, he prefers to believe his own disordered thinking. For example, when he rages, I leave. Not because I'm experiencing feeling of disgust and dislike for him, but because , if I stay too long, he eventually disregulates to the point of violence. So I leave to protect myself. It's not rocket science! You'd think he would put 2 and 2 together, but he doesn't. He seems to relish any situation that can be interpreted as "rejection", even when confronted with the truth.

[Cat Familiar]

So easy to play Monday morning quarterback, so hard to think of these things in real time:

"Honey, I so appreciate your love and concern, but my stomach is upset and I don't want you to kiss me right now."

[vortex of confusion]

Having a boundary can be threatening. In my FOO, boundaries were not really acceptable. We were a one-for-all and all-for-one family, with the exception that my mom got to rage and we had to fall in line, or else.

The same thing happened in my FOO. Telling somebody NO was simply not acceptable. If you tell somebody in my FOO NO, then you might as well pack your bags and prepare for a nice long guilt trip. I have learned to stop packing my bags with the FOO.

So the question I ask myself and, now, you is: Why is setting a boundary not civil, acknowledging or validating?

I think it depends on what side of boundary that you are on. For example, me saying, "No means no." was acknowledging and validating MY need to not be messed with. Me saying, "No means no" did not acknowledge his need to kiss me and it invalidated his attempts to be physically close. How he feels about my boundaries isn't really my concern as I have no control over that. My line of thinking is that part of making the situation better is to find ways to create a positive environment so that when I do say no or set boundaries it isn't as likely to seem like I am rejecting him.

I think part of this falls under the Lessons on Communication, especially the one about reinforcing good behavior. https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=103822.0

In that lesson it says:

Positive reinforcements motivates. We have all heard the 5x rule for teaching children (i.e., 5 positive reinforcers for every negative reinforcer).  We have all seen or read the management training material on how to motivate others through positive reinforcement.  If a person is not always feeling like they are being judged they will be more willing to do the things that need to be done and do them to the fullest.  And positive reinforcement is the good way to fuel self-confidence... .something many pwBPD lack. In fact, negative reinforcement often only works in conjunction with ample positive reinforcement.

My thinking is that for every time I set a boundary or do something that could be perceived as negative, then I need to try to find other ways to be more positive so that I can set an overall tone of positivity.

A boundary isn't disrespectful. It doesn't take credit for other's actions or diminish their actions. A boundary doesn't insist that someone else can't have their feelings. Do you agree?

I agree with this assessment. I am trying to look at the entire picture. No, a boundary isn't disrespectful. It can be enforced in ways that are perceived as disrespectful though.

I have this vague thought. . .If I walk away from an argument and decide to not engage, it is me setting a boundary. If the pwBPD does the same, that person is often accused of using the silent treatment or other manipulation tactics. I have no way of knowing what my spouses motives are any more than he knows my motives. After all, boundaries aren't usually something that a person announces. They just do it. I am thinking that if my husband were to come here and describe MY behavior in terms of BPD, then it would likely be interpreted as something negative or manipulative.

So, I am trying to look at things from all sides to help minimize the impact of the boundary setting and the feelings of rejection that those boundaries might spark in my spouse.

Does that make an ounce of sense?

When does a boundary become not civil, acknowledging or validating? Do you have examples? Is there a way you could have acknowledged your H's intent but still held your boundary on contact? What would that have looked like?

As the person that is not being described in terms of BPD, it would be easy for me to claim that everything that I do attempts to be civil, acknowledging, or validating. I know that simply isn't the case. There are times that I do get a bit too firm when setting my boundaries. I am sure that I have resorted to behavior that is not as wonderful as it should be. I can't think of a specific example at the moment.

How could I have acknowledged his intent without knowing it? I could just as easily assumed that his intent was negative. The point is that it is difficult to know somebody else's intent. He didn't know that my intent was to set a boundary. And I don't know what his intent was other than to give me a kiss.

[vortex of confusion]

So easy to play Monday morning quarterback, so hard to think of these things in real time:

"Honey, I so appreciate your love and concern, but my stomach is upset and I don't want you to kiss me right now."

This made me chuckle! The interaction was one of those rather quick ones that took less than a minute to go down. He was moving into my territory before I could even think of what to say, which is why I turned my head and just said, "No means no."

Or course, I could have just let him kiss me and given him the luxury of a cabbage burp. 

[Grey Kitty]

Boundary enforcement is never validating, and isn't designed to be. It also isn't invalidating (or at least doesn't have to be most of the time.)

It often has some intrinsic rejection built into it.

"No means no" is firm and clear. It is also better than "F*** off"   If not perhaps as good as the Monday morning quarterback version... .

Your rejection had nothing to do with him, it was about how you were feeling at the time. If he had the emotional maturity to (more consistently) realize that the rejection usually is usually like this, rather than taking it personally, your life and his would be better... .in many ways. Someday... .we hope!

Anyhow, I've never found a way to be validating while enforcing a boundary, and I don't believe it is possible.

[GaGrl]

The foundation of an inside environment of civility is crucial. My DH's constant, constant complaining, criticism, negativity, etc. absolutely blew up any possibility of a civil home atmosphere, with DH or the children. She must have assumed that anyone approaching her was doing so in the same "spirit" she carried with her every minute of the day, and she snapped at everyone accordingly. So boundary statements were NOT received well.

[vortex of confusion]

"No means no" is firm and clear. It is also better than "F*** off"   If not perhaps as good as the Monday morning quarterback version... .

Using FF's deliniationg of good, better, best:

Good: F***off

Better: No means no

Best: Monday morning quarterback version.

Anyhow, I've never found a way to be validating while enforcing a boundary, and I don't believe it is possible.

Exactly! What I am trying to communicate is that since boundary enforcement isn't validating, then there should be other areas to where validation can be attempted so that the overall environment is validating. Validating isn't occurring when they are upset or dysregulated but as part of daily thing. The best example that I can think of is how I interact with my kids. Most of my interactions with them tend to be pretty positive. As a result, when I do say no or do enforce a boundary, they don't think anything of it. I know that is more difficult to achieve when talking about an adult, especially where there is a lot of hurt and resentment and negativity.

I am trying to do a better job of interacting with my spouse like I interact with the kids. It is difficult because I have to find ways to keep myself in a positive head space. I am actively looking for things to validate and am looking for ways to praise and encourage him without falling back into the trap of expecting him to reciprocate or wondering why the heck I even bother. As an example, the other night, he climbed up in the attic and cleaned the coils in the AC while I was at work. He was e-mailing me about it after he did it. I thanked him and told him, "I am so glad to see that you are getting some of your awesomeness back." One of the things that I have told him repeatedly is that I know he has it in him. There have been times over the years that he has done some really wonderful things. He is the reason that I was able to nurse all of my 4 kids without any problems or an extended period of time. When I was sitting in my chair nursing, he made sure that I had everything that I needed. When the kids were really little and had a hard time relaxing, he would walk the floor with them and would sing to them.

I forget where I read it but one of the big things that can throw a marriage off track is when the story gets rewritten. Everything is rewritten and is viewed through a negative lens and one finds herself thinking stuff like ":)id he ever love me?" My thinking is that IF I can find a way to un-rewrite history and look at things through a more balanced lens, then I will be able to be more positive and will become more validating with him like I am with the kids.

[formflier]

viewed through a negative lens 

The lens matters. 

I find what can matter more... .is to have an honest conversation with yourself about why you want to keep using the lens you are using.

This can apply to any lens... .not just negative... .

FF

[vortex of confusion]

I find what can matter more... .is to have an honest conversation with yourself about why you want to keep using the lens you are using.

This can apply to any lens... .not just negative... .

Thanks for this!

I realize that I used to view everything through a positive lens, especially with regards to my husband and our relationship. That is why I didn't understand why I was so unhappy.

I switched to a negative lens for a while and that created a very negative and invalidating environment.

My current goal is to switch to a more balanced lens where I am better able to see the negatives and positives. I feel like I have been a pendulum swinging from one extreme to the other and now I am trying to achieve that state of balance.

If I see things through the negative lens, then I miss all of the positives an it makes it a lot more difficult for me to be validating.

[formflier]

Our marriage counselor wanted us to write down three things each day that the other person did that we liked.

Or... .if that was too tough... .each week...


To be honest... my wife put more effort into it than I did.  Then... I came on strong... .and now... we both have let it slide.

We were supposed to share with each other what we saw... and that we appreciated it.

Sorry to admit that one of the reasons I was a slow starter is that it challenged my worldview to write down those things that were good.

Granted... .I had to ignore some bad stuff... and that bugged me some.

The point is... .to look for the positive.

I need to get going on doing this again... .

You wouldn't think it is that hard... .but... at least for me... it is.

FF

[vortex of confusion]

Our marriage counselor wanted us to write down three things each day that the other person did that we liked.

Several years ago, I was on a forum that suggested this very thing. I did it with gusto. He would cook me breakfast or make coffee or do something with the kids and I would brag about him publicly on FB. He absolutely loved it. And the environment was much more validating and positive and there was very little conflict.

Granted... .I had to ignore some bad stuff... and that bugged me some.

Ultimately, that is why I stopped doing it. It felt like I was living a lie to some degree. Even though there was very little conflict and things were pretty peaceful, I wasn't happy. I wasn't happy because I was bending over backwards to validate him and find the positive and he was a bit of a bump on a log. He would be grumpy and checked out. I think some of the BPD traits were there but they didn't come out much because the overall environment was pretty positive and pretty accommodating for him. He would do things when he felt like it. I did things all of the time.

Focusing on the positive was great but it didn't take into account all of my unmet needs. The conflict didn't start until I stopped being so positive and I shook things up. I sometimes feel guilty for pushing things so hard and making a mess out of everything.

You wouldn't think it is that hard... .but... at least for me... it is.

It used to be pretty easy when I was able to overlook the negatives more. It used to be a lot easier when I wasn't trying to set boundaries and focus more on taking care of myself. Now, it is a lot more difficult to find the positives because I keep coming back to a place where I am afraid that if I focus too much on the positive, I will forget and let my boundaries slide and go back to that place where I was in complete denial about how lonely and unhappy I felt in the relationship.

[formflier]

 

Did he write down and talk about the good things you did for him?

FF

[vortex of confusion]

Did he write down and talk about the good things you did for him?

Nope, not really.

At one point in time a while back, I told him that I was frustrated because I felt like I was praising him and thanking him for doing stuff that most people do as a matter of course. I don't get thanked or doing the dishes or doing the laundry. Nobody says anything when I cook dinner yet he got all of that and then some. I felt very demoralized at the time.

When I was talking to the life coach, one of the things that we discussed was the fact that I value honesty. I mentioned that I didn't feel like I was being honest because I do try to build my husband up. Sometimes, I don't feel like it is being honest. He is trying to do a better job of building me up and saying nice things to me. I hate to say this but it doesn't sit well with me. I think it is because it doesn't come across as sincere. I am not sure if it is him being insincere or me not trusting him.

I do have to brag on my oldest daughter. Whenever we sit down to have a family dinner and say a quick prayer of thanksgiving, she throws in, "And thank you mom for working so hard to make this meal for us." I have tried to find ways of increasing the overall positiveness. For me, I think that is more important than being able to validate on the spot.

On father's day and each one of the kids' birthdays, I have had a nice sit down dinner and gone around the table to have each person say something nice about the person being celebrated. On Father's day, I went around the table and asked each of the kids to share something that they really liked about daddy.