Don't "JADE" (justify, argue, defend, explain) OK. What does this really mean?

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JADE means to justify, argue, defend, and/or explain. Dexify is a similar term meaning defend, explain, and/or justify.

What does this all mean? Surely there are time when we should explain, or defend, or justify.

Don't JADE or Dexifty is the antidote for false accusations.

The main problem in day-to-day life is that when you choose to JADE or dexify, you almost always sound guilty-as-charged. And if some part of you feels insecure about the charge, you may end up wondering-fearing-believing that it must be true.

What some practical ways to know when we are inappropriately trying to JADE or dexify?

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[vortex of confusion]

My first thought is that one practical way is to think about whether or not you have answered the question before. If the goal is to stay, then it makes sense to communicate with your partner. If he/she has a simple question like, why are you late getting home from work, it makes sense to answer it. It becomes inappropriate when it is being asked repeatedly.

I wonder about how to handle it when being told how I feel. . .Is it inappropriate JADE to stop and say something like, "Hey, that is not how I feel. This is how I feel."

Is explaining my feelings inappropriate JADE? The example that I am thinking of is when I let my husband know that I am still hurting over some of the things that have happened between us. I want to share my feelings but I don't want to have justify them. Sometimes, I don't know how to explain the reason behind my feelings.

[Cat Familiar]

I wonder about how to handle it when being told how I feel. . .Is it inappropriate JADE to stop and say something like, "Hey, that is not how I feel. This is how I feel."

Is explaining my feelings inappropriate JADE? The example that I am thinking of is when I let my husband know that I am still hurting over some of the things that have happened between us. I want to share my feelings but I don't want to have justify them. Sometimes, I don't know how to explain the reason behind my feelings.

Yes, it seems many of us have partners who tell us how we feel. And it's irritating to say the least, when it's completely wrong. I don't want future conversations predicated upon incorrect assumptions about what I think or feel. Otherwise, why even communicate at all?

So it's a boundary for me. I say, as nicely as I can, "You're welcome to think and feel whatever you like, but when you tell me what I feel and it's not true, I'm going to set the record straight." I've been holding firm to this boundary and he hasn't been filling in the blanks for my thoughts and feelings lately.

And why do we need to explain the reasons behind our feelings? They're our feelings. We don't expect them to explain their feelings.

[vortex of confusion]

And why do we need to explain the reasons behind our feelings? They're our feelings. We don't expect them to explain their feelings.

We don't need to explain the reason behind it. In my experience, something like "I am feeling grumpy because it is that time of the month." helps him not to take things so personally. This is something that I do to help my husband and my kids not take things so personally. I am trying to show them that it is okay to feel their feelings and that sometimes, it is okay to feel stuff without knowing why.

I question the accuracy of the statement "We don't expect them to explain their feelings." I am not sure how to explain my thinking. I see a lot of people ruminating about what their partner's are thinking or feeling. If I know that my partner is upset because he got stuck in traffic instead of being upset because of something that happened at home, it is a lot easier to not take things personally.

I am trying to up the levels of communication so that there is more openness. But, I am trying to do it with JADE. Does that make sense?

[123Phoebe]

JADE means to justify, argue, defend, and/or explain. What some practical ways to know when we are inappropriately trying to JADE or dexify?

I think if the conversation is taking a turn where neither my or partner's point of view in being accepted by the other, we're in a deadlock position thinking we're both right, with the other being wrong.

So a simple example being, when I feel myself becoming agitated or annoyed and wanting to tune him out, I'm not being open and present, I'm in my own head thinking of what I'm going to say next to make the point clearer, for whatever reasons... .  Hoping, he'll see it my way of course   Trying to change him to my way of thinking, in so many words.

When I'm not really paying attention, I'm more prone to JADE.  Looking for validation, while not providing much if any, which can be the difference between having a conversation or a conflict.

[Daniell85]

My boyfriend will stonewall me in conversations.

15 minutes go by and he doesn't respond. Half an hour. I feel anxious and begin to fill in the silence by talking too much.

If I am anxious. I also get angry. Why can't we just have the conversation? His way of avoiding it is silent treatment. In those minutes when I am still hoping the conversation will go ok ( that he will talk and discuss) I can sometimes simply talk a lot. He gets angry, insults me ( badly) and conversation is completely derailed.

If he refuses a response and I let it go, a day or two later he may give me an response. Not sure how to solve that sort of thing.

[SurfNTurf]

Interesting thread to read, brings a question to mind. If I, the non, am sucked into Explaining, as a means for the BPD to distract/avoid, is that part of the JADE ?

Example:

Non: "Could you make sure your laundry is in the hamper before you leave for work?" (A simple yes or no is expected.)

BPD: "I could... .or could not."

Non: "WOULD you make sure your laundry is in the hamper before you leave for work?" (Again, yes or no is the goal.)

BPD: "I might... .why are you always doing laundry anyway, why can't you wait til the weekend, you're going to wear out the washer and dryer, and the electric bill goes up. "

Non: (Explaining) "There is a full load of dark laundry to be done. I can wait til the weekend, when I am off work and would prefer to do things I enjoy, or I can do it tonight, when you are at work and won't complain about hearing the washer on the weekend. It's okay if you want to say no." (The unspoken, 'but you will look like a turd if you do' hangs in the air.)

Outcome: Non comes home from work, puts the laundry in the hamper, sorts same, does a load or two of wash.

Just writing about this puts my stomach in a knot, I'm so fricking sick of this type of stuff.

[sempervivum]

Outcome: Non comes home from work, puts the laundry in the hamper, sorts same, does a load or two of wash.

Just writing about this puts my stomach in a knot, I'm so fricking sick of this type of stuff.

Another example: A Border plays along with such normal situations and a Non gets the feeling everything runs smoothly. Then without any sign a Border decides to show his true Me and complicates a simple situation, such as "Why did you buy this bread?" (It´ s a bread with lots of seeds, which this Non likes very much.  )

A Border says nothing else, but his face shows his opinion about the bread. Non does not fall into JADE (trained through years, but still very much tempted) and says "I like that bread."

In two days or so a Border buys the same type of bread but from the bakery of his choice, so that it has his "stamp" or approval and this is the one, not the lousy one a Non bought.

To JADE or not?

[waverider]

What some practical ways to know when we are inappropriately trying to JADE or dexify?

~You start to loose confidence in your position.

~You start "winging it', and start saying things you had no intention of saying.

~You can sense the subject going off on a tangent

[gotbushels]

What some practical ways to know when we are inappropriately trying to JADE or dexify?

You have trouble saying things accurately: e.g. "I'm pretty worried about your feelings" is disconnected.

[Sunfl0wer]

Maybe the question to ask myself is... .

Does the person I am communicating to have a mind that is open and receptive to another perspective?

If no => likely nothing productive will occur.  

Then... .RA that perspective exchanges are now one sided = halt JADEing.

(Sometimes it takes a failed JADE or two for me to realize that I am speaking to a person unable to receive a different perspective)

If yes => Sometimes 'Explaining' leads to very fulfilling exchanges of info.

_{on the other hand... .Justifying, arguing and defending have sometimes lead to positive exchanges, but are trickier than 'explaining' to accomplish that... .and the climate would need to be specific.  For example, I can argue politics with certain coworkers and it is fun.}

The main problem in day-to-day life is that when you choose to JADE or dexify, you almost always sound guilty-as-charged. And if some part of you feels insecure about the charge, you may end up wondering-fearing-believing that it must be true.

 What some practical ways to know when we are inappropriately trying to JADE or dexify?

1.  I can tell by their behavior:  If the person accusing me, escalates and ramps up accusations, I often feel "Something is going wrong!, maybe I am JADEing?"

2. I can tell by my feelings:  Usually when I am JADEing... .I feel something inside me... .I feel uncomfortable, unsure of myself vs confident.  There is a feeling in me, like a stuck butterfly, and it feels confused.  (My reaction is often to JADE to release this butterfly.  I make conscious effort at times to not JADE when feeling confused).

3. I can tell by my behavior, _{if I am able to observe myself:}  Usually my posture changes to uncertain.  Often as I hear the words leave my mouth I can hear that they are JADEing.


So now... .

It is great when we know that the person we are speaking to is either... .

A. Generally NOT receptive to new/differing perspectives.

B. Generally open to new/differing perspectives.

... .

I am glad to participate in this topic because I have this issue daily... .

My daily issue is that I meet new people and it isn't until after I have inadvertently engaged into some form of JADEing that I THEN realize   crap!  I have been JADEing in a non productive way.  It is hard to undo the dynamic after it has been entered with a new person.  It is hard to not get carried away into it some.  I then feel guilty and have a stronger need to smooth things over for having entered this area.

Sometimes it helps me to ask people probing questions to determine how open their mind is... .before offering to explain.

Usually tho, it is my job to give advice and 'explain' a different way to do things... .Tricky territory!

I hope I can learn something in this thread to help me learn to give differing advice and instructions to all kinds of people and help facilitate the most productive exchanges possible... .And disengage on ones less productive sooner.

[Cat Familiar]

Great post, Sunfl0wer.

When I catch myself JADEing, it's almost like I regress back to being a little girl, trying to talk myself out of being in trouble.

As far as asking questions, a business mentor told me "Whoever asks the questions, controls the conversation." In the case of a pwBPD, I'd rather be the one controlling the conversation!  

[gotbushels]

... .
~You start "winging it', and start saying things you had no intention of saying.

~You can sense the subject going off on a tangent

I support the above two.

Perhaps another could be that a discussion about an anxiety of the partner keeps occurring, you've already explored for many hours over many days about the topic, and the partner has renewed feelings of the same anxiety. When you've already exhausted discussing all the table's ideas, then I may naturally go into defending/explaining--seeing nothing else to do.

E.g., jealousy, a colleague says something that's interpreted as a sexual advance by your romantic partner, she cannot accept that you are not interested in the colleague, and your partner's feelings have no obvious driver (re assuming that BPD tendencies occurred before our relationship existed), but she is zeroed in on it for several hours that the discussion devolves into statements around jealousy → accusation. So you go to inappropriately defending or explaining rather than validating and investigating, or using a pre-cooked solution like walking away. Simpler, the sensing of circularity can be a practical way to know that we are tending toward JADE.

Another practical way could be the feeling that you are getting attacked. The little pang in your chest that something isn't right--so I jump to show why I'm right. If jumping to create and/or defend your course of action has been how you operate, then that's going to be a reaction for you because you've been so accustomed to its success. That feeling or that feeling to react could signal you're going to inappropriately JADE.