I think the worst part of it for me is...

[Schermarhorn]

not knowing who it is that has the mental issues.

I don't know that she has BPD, hell I could be the one with BPD... .I seem to have some symptoms as well. All I know from what she told me is that she has PTSD, was abused, and has severe depression.

I am the one that is constantly thinking about her. I'm the one that cannot let go. I'm the one that spammed her with messages once she blocked me. She moved on, she has someone else.

Just the fact that my replacement said everything seemed fine with her either means she is normal, he's in denial, or he doesn't see it yet. I do know she has some issues for sure, so do I, but what if somehow I caused all of the issues in our relationship? What if she was pretty normal and I am the crazy one?

If I knew she had BPD, I could say that the relationship was doomed to fail... .but what if she didn't? What if I am just using this as a scapegoat for me ruining it?

[repititionqueen]

Hi Nonya,

I often feel the same way as you. I wonder if I myself have BPD. I do see a number of traits within myself. Which traits to you see in yourself that make you feel like you could have BPD? Dating someone with BPD is such a confusing process that it really makes anyone question their own sanity. The way that pwBPD push you away can cause you to act out. They tend to push boundaries and want to enrage you. At the end of the day that can leave you wondering if you ruined the relationship or them.

[Schermarhorn]

Hi Nonya,

I often feel the same way as you. I wonder if I myself have BPD. I do see a number of traits within myself. Which traits to you see in yourself that make you feel like you could have BPD? Dating someone with BPD is such a confusing process that it really makes anyone question their own sanity. The way that pwBPD push you away can cause you to act out. They tend to push boundaries and want to enrage you. At the end of the day that can leave you wondering if you ruined the relationship or them.

Towards the end I got really clingy. And then after the breakup I kept trying to contact her and sent her way too many messages. I looked at some of them today and they look like they were written by someone crazy. When we were together, I was the one that was afraid to get intimate. And even now, I keep checking up on her profiles. I have not tried to talk to her at all, but I still get this urge to check up on what she is doing.

What if I am just projecting all of my issues onto her?

[SummerStorm]

Nonya,

Projection is a very powerful weapon, and it makes us feel like we are to blame for everything.  My exBPD told me more than once that I was acting psychotic.  I started to believe that I was.  She told me I was too clingy.  She would act like I was crazy when I got upset about something.  She told me that I am poison.  I started wondering if I was losing it.

And I certainly did text her a lot, especially after she started devaluing me.  I would text her to see how she was doing.  I would text her to just keep a connection.  Even know, I am wanting to write to her and get updates on how she is doing.  

We all have traits that are associated with BPD.  I have attachment issues.  I have abandonment issues.  I have engulfment issues.  But what you need to look at is the whole picture.  Before you knew her, what was your life like?  :)id you have stable relationships, stable jobs, stable moods, hobbies and interests that were your own?  BPD is a disorder that throws a person's life into perpetual chaos.  

It doesn't matter whether she had BPD or not.  If she had traits and those traits interfered with her ability to live a stable life, then those traits were likely the primary reason why the relationship didn't work.  

Your replacement is being idealized right now.  You could probably show him a video of her doing something awful, and he would tell himself, "Well, I'm different.  I'm special.  She won't do that when I'm around."

Being devalued is such an awful thing, and we long to be idealized again.  So, when we get a taste of it again, we are so happy that we completely forget about how awful we just felt.  

My exBPD's boyfriend saw her rage, now knows she has BPD, and is very happily moving across the country with her, like everything is suddenly fine again.  Even when things weren't fine, you wouldn't know it.  When she tried to commit suicide, he didn't even tell most people that she was in the hospital.  And of the ones he told, only a few know why she was there.  Less than a week after she was in the hospital, they were both posting happy couple pictures on Facebook.  Even when things are bad, they like to make you think that they are happy.

[SummerStorm]

Hi Nonya,

I often feel the same way as you. I wonder if I myself have BPD. I do see a number of traits within myself. Which traits to you see in yourself that make you feel like you could have BPD? Dating someone with BPD is such a confusing process that it really makes anyone question their own sanity. The way that pwBPD push you away can cause you to act out. They tend to push boundaries and want to enrage you. At the end of the day that can leave you wondering if you ruined the relationship or them.

Towards the end I got really clingy. And then after the breakup I kept trying to contact her and sent her way too many messages. I looked at some of them today and they look like they were written by someone crazy. When we were together, I was the one that was afraid to get intimate. And even now, I keep checking up on her profiles. I have not tried to talk to her at all, but I still get this urge to check up on what she is doing.

What if I am just projecting all of my issues onto her?

You basically just described me, and I know I don't have BPD.  Do you split people into all good or all bad?  Do you have chronic feelings of emptiness?  Do you have stormy relationships and friendships?  Look at the things that go into diagnosing someone with BPD, rather than little things. 

Clinginess is not just a BPD trait.  All kinds of people can be clingy.  And everyone checks up on people these days.  The internet makes that very easy to do.

Being afraid of intimacy is normal.  And often, we are afraid of being intimate with a pwBPD because we don't know what will set the person off.  We withdraw and lose the desire to form that connection.  I was afraid of being intimate with mine because she was always doing the push-pull with me.  I was afraid of getting in too deep. 

[Schermarhorn]

Nonya,

Projection is a very powerful weapon, and it makes us feel like we are to blame for everything.  My exBPD told me more than once that I was acting psychotic.  I started to believe that I was.  She told me I was too clingy.  She would act like I was crazy when I got upset about something.  She told me that I am poison.  I started wondering if I was losing it.

And I certainly did text her a lot, especially after she started devaluing me.  I would text her to see how she was doing.  I would text her to just keep a connection.  Even know, I am wanting to write to her and get updates on how she is doing.  

We all have traits that are associated with BPD.  I have attachment issues.  I have abandonment issues.  I have engulfment issues.  But what you need to look at is the whole picture.  Before you knew her, what was your life like?  :)id you have stable relationships, stable jobs, stable moods, hobbies and interests that were your own?  BPD is a disorder that throws a person's life into perpetual chaos.  

It doesn't matter whether she had BPD or not.  If she had traits and those traits interfered with her ability to live a stable life, then those traits were likely the primary reason why the relationship didn't work.  

Your replacement is being idealized right now.  You could probably show him a video of her doing something awful, and he would tell himself, "Well, I'm different.  I'm special.  She won't do that when I'm around."

Being devalued is such an awful thing, and we long to be idealized again.  So, when we get a taste of it again, we are so happy that we completely forget about how awful we just felt.  

My exBPD's boyfriend saw her rage, now knows she has BPD, and is very happily moving across the country with her, like everything is suddenly fine again.  Even when things weren't fine, you wouldn't know it.  When she tried to commit suicide, he didn't even tell most people that she was in the hospital.  And of the ones he told, only a few know why she was there.  Less than a week after she was in the hospital, they were both posting happy couple pictures on Facebook.  Even when things are bad, they like to make you think that they are happy.

As far as relationships she is my first, so I can't really look at that for insight. I do have interests and hobbies that are my own. Granted mine shifted a little bit while I was with her. But the stuff she was interested in, I also liked before that.

What I specifically asked him was if she seemed to be idealizing him and if shes moving too fast and that's when he said everything seemed normal. By now if it went like how it did with me, she would've already invited me to her "marriage" pinterest and would've been in hyper drive.

I do remember myself idealizing her almost as much as she was me, telling her how ridiculously beautiful she was, how she was the girl of my dreams, etc.

I just keep trying to remember if she was the one that was leading on that and I was just going with the flow, or if it was the other way around.

[disorderedsociety]

Nonya,

Projection is a very powerful weapon, and it makes us feel like we are to blame for everything.  My exBPD told me more than once that I was acting psychotic.  I started to believe that I was.  She told me I was too clingy.  She would act like I was crazy when I got upset about something.  She told me that I am poison.  I started wondering if I was losing it.

And I certainly did text her a lot, especially after she started devaluing me.  I would text her to see how she was doing.  I would text her to just keep a connection.  Even know, I am wanting to write to her and get updates on how she is doing.  

We all have traits that are associated with BPD.  I have attachment issues.  I have abandonment issues.  I have engulfment issues.  But what you need to look at is the whole picture.  Before you knew her, what was your life like?  :)id you have stable relationships, stable jobs, stable moods, hobbies and interests that were your own?  BPD is a disorder that throws a person's life into perpetual chaos.  

It doesn't matter whether she had BPD or not.  If she had traits and those traits interfered with her ability to live a stable life, then those traits were likely the primary reason why the relationship didn't work.  

Your replacement is being idealized right now.  You could probably show him a video of her doing something awful, and he would tell himself, "Well, I'm different.  I'm special.  She won't do that when I'm around."

Being devalued is such an awful thing, and we long to be idealized again.  So, when we get a taste of it again, we are so happy that we completely forget about how awful we just felt.  

My exBPD's boyfriend saw her rage, now knows she has BPD, and is very happily moving across the country with her, like everything is suddenly fine again.  Even when things weren't fine, you wouldn't know it.  When she tried to commit suicide, he didn't even tell most people that she was in the hospital.  And of the ones he told, only a few know why she was there.  Less than a week after she was in the hospital, they were both posting happy couple pictures on Facebook.  Even when things are bad, they like to make you think that they are happy.

As far as relationships she is my first, so I can't really look at that for insight. I do have interests and hobbies that are my own. Granted mine shifted a little bit while I was with her. But the stuff she was interested in, I also liked before that.

What I specifically asked him was if she seemed to be idealizing him and if shes moving too fast and that's when he said everything seemed normal. By now if it went like how it did with me, she would've already invited me to her "marriage" pinterest and would've been in hyper drive.

I do remember myself idealizing her almost as much as she was me, telling her how ridiculously beautiful she was, how she was the girl of my dreams, etc.

I just keep trying to remember if she was the one that was leading on that and I was just going with the flow, or if it was the other way around.

Think about it, if she were "normal" and you were the one with the disorder, why did she get with you? Even the slightest amount of clinginess can turn a "normal" girl away from you quick, so keep that in mind.

The fact you're questioning yourself so much is also compelling evidence that you don't have a personality disorder. These cluster B types have no idea what it's like to be "normal," no accountability for their actions and the last thing they'll do is question their reactions - it would be too painful and they might even have a full-blown panic attack. They simply override their true self (and their conscience,) with their victim attitude. It gives continuity to their sense of "self," which is actually fragmented and wholly different from their deepest being.

When I was younger, early teens, I behaved similarly in that I thought because of the abuse growing up, the world owed me everything I thought it took away. Imagine that, but its not just a thought process. It's an internalized pattern of traits adapted to survive, for a person with BPD.

I'm still learning what I can about this disorder so I can separate my mess from hers, but I spent a long time with the heartache of thinking along the lines of "what if I caused her craziness?" to the point where I even thought she was simply very empathic and could "sense" my ambivalence about the relationship via ESP.

Ultimately what this line of thinking is, in my humble opinion, is a form of denial and bargaining. Denying she was crazy because it means another can of worms must open, bargaining in the sense that maybe if you did x or said y you could be less crazy and save the relationship. This I think is natural, given that we would gladly take all the blame if it meant we could hold onto our "love."

Is it really love, conforming to another's requirements, especially when they go beyond the superficial and into the territory of what makes you an individual? I think not.

Food for thought and spirit.

[Gonzalo]

The projection and 'feelings create facts' can end up making stuff happen in your head that mirrors BPD symptoms. By the end of the relationship I was extremely defensive and would grow very angry at little provocation, and expected every little disagreement to turn into a fight. This wasn't because I had a personality disorder, it was because my patience had been ground away for more than a year, I had realized how much I was being pushed around and started setting boundaries hard, and my experience was that most little disagreements did turn into fights.

BTW, "Clingy" is not actually characteristic of BPD, it's the push-pull from fearing both abandonment and engulfment that is unique to that disorder. And some of your clingy is probably because the early stages involve a lot of mirroring, which is a really good way to generate attachment in you.

[SummerStorm]

 

What I specifically asked him was if she seemed to be idealizing him and if shes moving too fast and that's when he said everything seemed normal. By now if it went like how it did with me, she would've already invited me to her "marriage" pinterest and would've been in hyper drive.

I do remember myself idealizing her almost as much as she was me, telling her how ridiculously beautiful she was, how she was the girl of my dreams, etc.

I just keep trying to remember if she was the one that was leading on that and I was just going with the flow, or if it was the other way around.

Though they basically do the same things with everyone, the speed at which those things happen will vary from person to person.  In the span of a few days, mine went from telling me that she wanted to stay with her boyfriend to telling me that she wanted to marry me.  She and I had the same work schedule, and we both would just go home after work.  At work, I could quickly answer texts and reply to e-mails.  So, we talked a lot.  Her boyfriend works at night and sleeps during the day, so he rarely saw her.  He also doesn't have the chance to call or text except during his breaks.  So, even though they live together, they don't see each other that often.

Fear of engulfment happened very quickly with me because I was either with her or was texting her all the time.  She attached to me very quickly but also detached from me very quickly. 

Other factors can also come into play.  Her boyfriend and I both have rescuer traits, but mine are way more prevalent.  Her boyfriend has a lot of friends, and I don't.  I have a way with words and am very romantic.  Her boyfriend doesn't have those traits.  The things I did that I thought were things she would like (long, romantic e-mails and letters, pouring my heart out to her) were things that ultimately pushed her away. 

Her boyfriend also tends to overlook a lot of things, and he is still very much in the FOG.  When she was in the hospital and I mentioned the fact that she moves a lot, he replied, "Yeah, she does seem to move fast."  That was it.  That's all he had to say about it.  He just accepts that behavior as being a part of her. 

As Gonzalo mentioned, pwBPD grind down our patience so much that we end up becoming angry and looking like the crazy person.  One time, days after she told me she was leaving her boyfriend and wanted to be with me, she "accidentally" sent me a text that she said was meant for another person, all about the great sex she'd just had with her boyfriend.  I got upset and sent her a few angry messages about being more careful about who she's texting,  and she replied, "Well, what do you expect me to do?  I'm living here for the time-being, in case you had forgotten."  A few days later, when she told me she was staying with her boyfriend, I asked why, and she said, "What really did it for me was your freak out."  I immediately felt like I was a terrible person, even though my "freak out" was three very short texts that were followed immediately by an apology for reacting so harshly.  The way she made it sound, I was raging at her and was a few seconds away from becoming physically violent. 

The last few weeks were just one constant argument about nothing.  Every single thing I said or did made her mad.  Then, I would get mad because she was getting mad about stupid things. 

Do I have BPD because of that?  No.  And I was getting mad for a legitimate reason.  Before I met her, I considered myself a pretty laid back person.  I'm a teacher and can lay down the law when necessary, but I don't really have conflicts with people.  And since I've been NC with her and haven't seen her in almost two months, I haven't yelled at anyone or had any major arguments.   

[BlackandBlue]

I'm glad you guys mentioned the grinding away at your patience thing because I do kind of beat myself up over how I reacted to things toward the end. But her jealousy, clingyness... .all of it wore my patience thin and I would get angry.

[JohnnyShoes]

not knowing who it is that has the mental issues.

I don't know that she has BPD, hell I could be the one with BPD... .I seem to have some symptoms as well. All I know from what she told me is that she has PTSD, was abused, and has severe depression.

I am the one that is constantly thinking about her. I'm the one that cannot let go. I'm the one that spammed her with messages once she blocked me. She moved on, she has someone else.

Just the fact that my replacement said everything seemed fine with her either means she is normal, he's in denial, or he doesn't see it yet. I do know she has some issues for sure, so do I, but what if somehow I caused all of the issues in our relationship? What if she was pretty normal and I am the crazy one?

If I knew she had BPD, I could say that the relationship was doomed to fail... .but what if she didn't? What if I am just using this as a scapegoat for me ruining it?

I think many of us feel/felt the same way. Word for word.

At least I feel that way too.

Try to remember those forgotten things that made you really hurt inside, that made you feel like you weren't heard... .the times when your feelings didn't matter at all to your ex.

At least, that's what I try to do.

[Lonely_Astro]

I'm glad you guys mentioned the grinding away at your patience thing because I do kind of beat myself up over how I reacted to things toward the end. But her jealousy, clingyness... .all of it wore my patience thin and I would get angry.

I've posted my story on here.  To give you the short of it: was involved with a BPD female (unknown she was at the time, she later told me she was diagnosed), didn't speak to her for 3 years, we started talking again (she claimed to have been in therapy and medicated... .regulated) and got back involved.  Things seemed fine for a few months but then it started cracking (we were both married, an affair started, which added stress of course).  Feel free to read over my post, as I wrote it to get it out and look for support from those that have been involved with BPD relationships - one really can't speak about it until they've been there.

Anyway, I found out 3 days ago she had been seeing another guy for about a month (she claims no physical stuff and they've been just "hanging out", but I don't believe that).  The cause of all that?  Me.  She said she was forced to see the other guy because I was angry with her all the time, even though she would pick fights about everything and also I wasn't moving fast enough on my separation/divorce (even though she hasn't even filed yet, though she claims she has and the paperwork must be "lost at the courthouse" and has been going on for a year+ now).  She said at one point that she had been waiting on me for a year (even though we really didn't get serious until Nov/Dec and I wasn't separated at the time - something I pointed out in the beginning) and was tired of being alone and couldn't believe it had taken me as long to be with her as it has and she would get angry if I asked about her divorce proceedings, but I was the bad guy for not moving fast enough on my end. Sorry for the ramble... .

In the last couple of months, I was always on edge.  There was something always going on with her (fighting with her mom, her friends, family, etc.) and she would literally pick and poke until I got upset about something.  She would even get upset that I wasn't getting upset over the smallest of things.  My final explosion came after she pointed out the guy she had slept with when we were together 3 years ago while we were having lunch at the park (he drove by).  That happened after we had had many conversations about how I wanted to let the past lie in the past and not discuss it anymore because it was very painful for me to think about, but that I had forgiven her because she was undiagnosed at the time (we had many conversations about it, it was time to put it all to rest).  But that moment came about a month or so after I had been messing with her phone and that same guy called her while I was holding her phone plus she had made the comment that he "was looking hard" our way to see who she was with.  She had swapped cars, so in theory, he wouldn't have known what she drove (I now believe she has him on the side too and nothing will ever change that belief).

So, try not to beat yourself up, you got angry because you cared so much.  The saying that I enjoy reading by Doris Jones when I think about how she said my anger forced her to leave: "Anger is not the opposite of love, for the opposite of love is indifference. To be angry is to care tremendously. It is a signal that your caring extends beyond polite conversation, and that you are willing to risk a confrontation to share how you feel.” 

Yes, its only been 3 days for me.  Yes, today is the first day of NC.  Yes, I desperately want to talk to her.  Yes, I'm still feeling like crap.  No, I won't text her or reach out because I know she isn't feeling the same way about me as I do her (the past two days I have waited until she texted me to reach out).  She probably hasn't even thought about me, because it would be to painful for her to do so.

For those that have read this, thank you.  For those wondering if you are the problem:  you aren't.  Simply asking that shows that you aren't.