How common is it for Borderlines to change and be normal?

[skittles22]

Someone who knows my BPD ex told me last night that she has a new job and is living near a beach. I didn't ask to know more, but this information conjured an image in my head that she's normal now. Normal, happy, stable... .after putting 10-15 guys through the ringer. It's depressing to think that she's probably still with the guy she rebounded after me with. She never had a job before him. I have this nagging feeling I was the last of the 10-15 guys that suffered, and this new guy is the first to experience her as a normal person. And only after me. All I can think is why? Why me. I refuse to check on her social media, but how common is it for Borderlines to change? I have no real idea if she's still with him, she's possibly with another guy by now. But I can't get this image of normalcy surrounding her out of my head.

[valet]

Hey skittles22, pwBPD mirror their partners traits during the idealization phase of the relationship.

The man she is now will likely suffer too, just like you and all of the rest of us here have.

BPD is treatable, yes. Long-term psychotherapy combined with medication to regulate their mood is the only known effective treatment. So, it would be a long road for her.

Now, my question to you. How do you feel, and what are you doing about it?

[myself]

A leopard doesn't change its spots, even with a job and a beach nearby.

[rotiroti]

Don't take a BPDer's behavior personally.

Were you your BPDer's first bf?

The duration of the cycles they go through with partners can vary GREATLY. Mine was with her college bf for years despite cheating on him, was with the guy before me for a week, etc.

[JohnnyShoes]

Valet - I agree. Very well put.

[SummerStorm]

BPD is a personality disorder that forms early in a person's life and affects the way he/she perceives others and how he/she perceives him/herself.  It causes a person to not have a "true self."  In other words, pwBPD often don't know what they like/don't like, what their interests are, what they want to do in life.  

My exBPD's Facebook is private, but I can see her profile pictures.  I was also in contact with her boyfriend because she was in the hospital.  A week before he told me that she was raging at him again, she took pictures of the two of them looking super happy and made one of them her profile picture.  If someone who had never met her before saw that picture, they would have no reason to believe that she had tried to commit suicide two weeks before that and was raging at people.  Now, she's getting ready to move across the country with him, and most people are like, "Oh, that's so great!"  They don't know about what happened in June, and they don't know that she has BPD and makes impulsive decisions, like waking up one day and deciding to move 3,000 miles away.  

She sent me a card last week, and she still takes no responsibility for her actions and didn't apologize for the terrible things she did/said to me, so she's clearly the same person she was before because she's not in therapy right now.  She is on medication, but I have no idea if it's actually helping her regulate her moods or not.  

Like rotiroti wrote, duration of the cycles can vary greatly.  Mine was with her high school boyfriend for two years.  Last year, she was with a guy for maybe a month, if that.  She's been with this boyfriend for 6 months but started cheated on him 3 months into the relationship.  Her idealization and devaluation of me, from friendship to affair and back to friendship again, happened over 4 months.  Idealization kept coming and going for a while, but at first, it never actually changed completely to devaluation.  Then, devaluation hit, and it never turned back to idealization.  She wasn't diagnosed with BPD until right at the end, so I had no idea about her engulfment fears, only that she had abandonment fears.  I would write her these long e-mails and letters, professing my love and telling her all about the future I had planned for us, and they only pushed her away.  Her boyfriend doesn't do things like that, so her fear of engulfment hasn't been tested.  It was when she first moved in with him, but she's idealizing him again.      

[HappyNihilist]

How common is it for borderlines to change? About as common as it is for anyone to change their behavior and thinking patterns.

Which is to say - it can be done, but it takes self-awareness, dedication, time, work, and a lot of practice. If someone isn't devoting that level of effort to changing, then eventually old patterns will catch up to them.

I have this nagging feeling I was the last of the 10-15 guys that suffered, and this new guy is the first to experience her as a normal person. And only after me.

 That's a common feeling after the end of a relationship like this. She may be with the new guy for a month, a year, or even 30 years - regardless of how long the relationship lasts, the truth is that unless she works hard on changing her behavior, she will always be the same. This is just a universal truth, and in no way restricted to BPD.

Like rotiroti said, don't take her behavior personally. Look deeper into how you're feeling. Why does this aspect in particular bother you? What does it mean for you if you were, indeed, the last guy to suffer before she gained normalcy?

Take care of You. 

[ReluctantSurvivor]

It is possible for a borderline to change for the better with persistent treatment but they will never experience life or behave entirely like a non.  From my own personal experience, a pwBPD can have a manic high while idealizing a new source.  Perhaps it is love addiction blotting out the blackhole they have inside for a little while.  Sooner or later they will devalue and discard their latest source and look for someone new to fill the nothingness they feel inside.

It wasn't you.  It was their personality disorder.  A pwBPD's personality will morph to mirror who ever is close to them in a particular cycle.  Mirroring different people can lead to their life improving if they happen to mirror a nice person.  Nothing lasts that long though, instability is the hallmark of BPD.

Your pondering about her being happy and normal are the same thoughts I had about my pwBPD after she discarded me.  Like others have said, try to focus more on you.  Sometimes we have to work through ponderous thoughts to get there.  

[zundertowz]

The one thing I never put together until after the break up is they really never have there own personality... .and they don't have a type... .the guy before me was a body builder and when I meet my ex she kinda had a six pack, worked out daily, and I caught her throwing up her dinner once ( she denied it but it never did it again so I just forgot about it)   she dropped all this pretty quickly and started getting into my hobbies... .chances are your ex is dating a surfer so she moved near the beach to surf. LOL  But don't fool yourself they don't become normal overnight.

[disorderedsociety]

Mine started getting into the rebound's interests as soon as they started dating...

What's strange is she was diagnosed with BPD a while into our relationship, agreed she had it, told me she's been that way since she was a child (suicidal ideations between ages 5-8) but I still find ways to convince myself that because she wasn't aggressive or violent and doesn't stalk me now (that I know of) that she's magically happy and fulfilled with this new guy.

But my perceptions of that fulfillment and happiness are ultimately from my own experience, so I would bet its not possible to truly understand how she feels, yeah?

[Lonely_Astro]

Someone who knows my BPD ex told me last night that she has a new job and is living near a beach. I didn't ask to know more, but this information conjured an image in my head that she's normal now. Normal, happy, stable... .after putting 10-15 guys through the ringer. It's depressing to think that she's probably still with the guy she rebounded after me with. She never had a job before him. I have this nagging feeling I was the last of the 10-15 guys that suffered, and this new guy is the first to experience her as a normal person. And only after me. All I can think is why? Why me. I refuse to check on her social media, but how common is it for Borderlines to change? I have no real idea if she's still with him, she's possibly with another guy by now. But I can't get this image of normalcy surrounding her out of my head.

I'll give you a bit of my perspective:  I work with my exBPD.  We were together for about 4 months three years ago.  I just recently was recycled, but I'll tell you what happened in those 3 years that we didn't talk (yes, we were NC except for business contact)... .she started dating a guy in May (even though we didn't truly end things until June) of 2012.  They dated until the winter of 2012, when they got engaged.  In November of 2013, they got married.  Everything looked like it was going super fantastic for her: new husband, new house, new car.  She wasn't involved in office flirting, no rumors of her sleeping with anyone were going around, and she looked 'put together' everyday at work (she was always dressed nice, had makeup and her hair done - before that she would often come to work like she just rolled out of bed).  Everything seemed completely stable.  She seemed happy.  I was both happy and sad that she was (happy she was happy, sad I wasn't experiencing life with her).

In the early summer of 2014, they separated and were getting a divorce (according to her).  This was reaffirmed to me in the fall of 2014 when we started a relationship again (at first we started off talking about her therapy, her recovery, etc etc, it didn't get romantic until winter of 2014).  So, she was married for roughly 6 months before it fell apart and had a 1.5 year relationship.  Now we are in the summer of 2015 and she has yet to have a finalized divorce (she claims they were fighting over stuff as they have no kids), she has split from me, and has a new bf (they are on the hush-hush since her divorce isn't final yet as she was with me for the same reason - btw, theres no paperwork at the courthouse that she's divorcing so she's taking this new guy for a ride too).

They may appear to be having a normal, stable life.  Truth is, it's far from that. 

[FannyB]

Based on my experience, they can fantasise about situations as well as people e.g. 'If I only lived by a beach everything would be ok - it's the stresses of city life that makes me feel like this'. When they achieve this change of status (could be marriage or a move to a dream location etc) then they are flooded with positive feelings which put the BPD on the backburner - until the inevitable happens. When living by the beach doesn't fix everything it is obviously the current partner's fault, and the cycle continues.

I know there's a little blue pill for treating sexual impotence - I don't think there's an equivalent one for fixing BPD just yet! 

[rotiroti]

Wow. thank you HappyNihilist and ReluctantSurvivor! Starting my weekend off with powerful insights and a smile.

time and time again I'm reminded that the mirrored kindness I saw was a part of myself. That in addition to knowing that the pain caused is all up to me feels so good. There are still difficult days, but I know i'll be looking back here time to time

[SummerStorm]

The one thing I never put together until after the break up is they really never have there own personality... .and they don't have a type... .the guy before me was a body builder and when I meet my ex she kinda had a six pack, worked out daily, and I caught her throwing up her dinner once ( she denied it but it never did it again so I just forgot about it)   she dropped all this pretty quickly and started getting into my hobbies... .chances are your ex is dating a surfer so she moved near the beach to surf. LOL  But don't fool yourself they don't become normal overnight.

So very true. 

I like hiking and running and being outside, I drive a Ford Fusion, I listen to folky acoustic music, and I love going to soccer and basketball games.

Her boyfriend likes lifting weights, plays video games, drives a sports car, listens to heavy rock music, and doesn't seem to like sports at all. 

Some core truths about her are that she loves Doctor Who and Harry Potter and plays Pokemon games.  Other than that, everything else is mirroring.  But now, she's hardcore into all kinds of video games, has a sudden interest in cars, and listens to the bands he likes.  For a while, he did try to get her to go to the gym with him, but that didn't last long.  No matter who she's with, she's lazy. 

Skittles, just like in any relationship, people will have some core similarities and differences.  pwBPD often hang on to things that they liked before their BPD really kicked in and they started mirroring people.  Mine has a bit more in common with her boyfriend than she did with me, and he's more passive than I am, so she gets away with a lot, and he doesn't argue with her like I did.  So, that's a big reason why he's around and I'm not. 

[SummerStorm]

Based on my experience, they can fantasise about situations as well as people e.g. 'If I only lived by a beach everything would be ok - it's the stresses of city life that makes me feel like this'. When they achieve this change of status (could be marriage or a move to a dream location etc) then they are flooded with positive feelings which put the BPD on the backburner - until the inevitable happens. When living by the beach doesn't fix everything it is obviously the current partner's fault, and the cycle continues.

Yes, mine is going through this right now.  "If I move to a sunny/warm state, near my parents, with my boyfriend, everything will be so much better.  I can also get treatment and be a better person.  Moving is the answer to my problems."

You're so right about the flood of positive feelings.  She will move out there and probably feel so great for a few weeks or months.  Therapy will be put on the back burner.  Then, things will spiral again, she'll start to resent her boyfriend for moving out there and will feel engulfed by him and her parents.  And then, the cycle will continue.   

[rotiroti]

Based on my experience, they can fantasise about situations as well as people e.g. 'If I only lived by a beach everything would be ok - it's the stresses of city life that makes me feel like this'. When they achieve this change of status (could be marriage or a move to a dream location etc) then they are flooded with positive feelings which put the BPD on the backburner - until the inevitable happens. When living by the beach doesn't fix everything it is obviously the current partner's fault, and the cycle continues.

Yes, mine is going through this right now.  "If I move to a sunny/warm state, near my parents, with my boyfriend, everything will be so much better.  I can also get treatment and be a better person.  Moving is the answer to my problems."

You're so right about the flood of positive feelings.  She will move out there and probably feel so great for a few weeks or months.  Therapy will be put on the back burner.  Then, things will spiral again, she'll start to resent her boyfriend for moving out there and will feel engulfed by him and her parents.  And then, the cycle will continue.   

I was told this repeatedly while going into the relationship. She would tell me that I made her feel like she can be the best person she could ever be.

I'm surprised at how easy swept away I was haha

[SummerStorm]

One last thing, Skittles.  

Remember that people, not just pwBPD, can control their image and how people perceive them.  Think about a celebrity couple who are photographed holding hands and playing in the park with their children on Monday and then announces their separation on Tuesday.  

But often, if you look really hard, there are small cracks that they just can't cover up.  Maybe the couple had forgotten to put on their wedding rings on Monday, or maybe the wife is wearing sunglasses, trying to hide how upset she is to be "playing wife" to a man she will be separating from.  Maybe the husband doesn't have the sparkle in his eye that he always used to have when looking at his wife.  

My exBPD's Facebook is private, so I can only see current and past profile pictures and her cover photo.  But that's enough.  Last November/December, she looked happy and healthy.  She smiled in her selfies, and the smile looked genuine.  Fast forward to March.  She still looks happy and healthy, and she's smiling in pictures with her boyfriend.  But the smiles look very posed.  The pictures she posts with her current boyfriend look exactly the same as the ones with her last boyfriend.  Same pose, same smile.  Fast forward again to May and June.  More of the posing and smiling in couple pictures but not in selfies, and she doesn't look as healthy.  Actually, I look at some of them and wonder why I was ever even attracted to her.  Fast forward again to July.  She has a new hair style and is really putting on the make up.  Newest profile picture is a selfie, no smile, no light in her eyes.  She just looks blank.  

The cover photo that she and her boyfriend have both had for three months is from a baseball game they went to, where they met a local band they like.  But think about that.  Where are the photos of all of the other places they've gone and things they've done?  In three months, they've done one exciting thing.

Right now, she's getting ready for a move that she thinks will solve all of her problems, but it's clear that she still very much has those problems.        

[SummerStorm]

Based on my experience, they can fantasise about situations as well as people e.g. 'If I only lived by a beach everything would be ok - it's the stresses of city life that makes me feel like this'. When they achieve this change of status (could be marriage or a move to a dream location etc) then they are flooded with positive feelings which put the BPD on the backburner - until the inevitable happens. When living by the beach doesn't fix everything it is obviously the current partner's fault, and the cycle continues.

Yes, mine is going through this right now.  "If I move to a sunny/warm state, near my parents, with my boyfriend, everything will be so much better.  I can also get treatment and be a better person.  Moving is the answer to my problems."

You're so right about the flood of positive feelings.  She will move out there and probably feel so great for a few weeks or months.  Therapy will be put on the back burner.  Then, things will spiral again, she'll start to resent her boyfriend for moving out there and will feel engulfed by him and her parents.  And then, the cycle will continue.   

I was told this repeatedly while going into the relationship. She would tell me that I made her feel like she can be the best person she could ever be.

I'm surprised at how easy swept away I was haha

Yeah, well first, she told me that her "former self" was someone she no longer knew.    When she started flirting with me, I told her she needs to stop playing with me if she was just going to stay with her boyfriend.  She just said, "I never cheat."  A few weeks later, she was jumping on top of me and kissing me.  She told me that she didn't do drugs anymore.  A few months later, she was smoking pot 3-4 times a day. 

Now, she says she wants to be a better person because she hurt me and almost hurt her boyfriend. 

Look, if I had to guess, her boyfriend almost broke up with her.  At the end of June, he told me he wasn't sure he could make it work.  She was living at his place, so he had control and could kick her out.  Two weeks later, he's moving with her.  So, I'm sure she said, "I promise to get help.  Let's move out to where my parents are.  It will be better out there.  I can get better."  Now, she will have control and can kick him out.  I'm actually surprised she moved in with him.  She likes to have people (boyfriends and friends) move in with her. 

[zundertowz]

Based on my experience, they can fantasise about situations as well as people e.g. 'If I only lived by a beach everything would be ok - it's the stresses of city life that makes me feel like this'. When they achieve this change of status (could be marriage or a move to a dream location etc) then they are flooded with positive feelings which put the BPD on the backburner - until the inevitable happens. When living by the beach doesn't fix everything it is obviously the current partner's fault, and the cycle continues.

Yes, mine is going through this right now.  "If I move to a sunny/warm state, near my parents, with my boyfriend, everything will be so much better.  I can also get treatment and be a better person.  Moving is the answer to my problems."

You're so right about the flood of positive feelings.  She will move out there and probably feel so great for a few weeks or months.  Therapy will be put on the back burner.  Then, things will spiral again, she'll start to resent her boyfriend for moving out there and will feel engulfed by him and her parents.  And then, the cycle will continue.   

I was told this repeatedly while going into the relationship. She would tell me that I made her feel like she can be the best person she could ever be.

I'm surprised at how easy swept away I was haha

Yeah, well first, she told me that her "former self" was someone she no longer knew.    When she started flirting with me, I told her she needs to stop playing with me if she was just going to stay with her boyfriend.  She just said, "I never cheat."  A few weeks later, she was jumping on top of me and kissing me.  She told me that she didn't do drugs anymore.  A few months later, she was smoking pot 3-4 times a day. 

Now, she says she wants to be a better person because she hurt me and almost hurt her boyfriend. 

Look, if I had to guess, her boyfriend almost broke up with her.  At the end of June, he told me he wasn't sure he could make it work.  She was living at his place, so he had control and could kick her out.  Two weeks later, he's moving with her.  So, I'm sure she said, "I promise to get help.  Let's move out to where my parents are.  It will be better out there.  I can get better."  Now, she will have control and can kick him out.  I'm actually surprised she moved in with him.  She likes to have people (boyfriends and friends) move in with her. 

I remember when my ex and I were starting to get serious we had many conversations about cheating and being faithful which I was worried about and was the last thing I wanted to deal with at the time... .I even suggested we just keep the relationship casual or open... .she reassured me and said she would never be that way as she had been cheated on a lot and was just playing the field while single... .anyway it was all B.S... .it's also funny when there trying to hook you they have no problem having adult conversations and being sympathetic towards your feelings... .maybe mine was more a psychopath than BPD.

[rotiroti]

Somehow I let her convince me that all of her ex's mementos were around the house were just that.

Looking back, i think the lowest point was using a men's bathrobe that she had her place... .It was apparently her 'dad's'

what was i thinking?

[Pretty Woman]

Unless he/she is in hard core therapy, it's doubtful they get better.

It's hard once we are discarded. We saw many red flags and were treated horribly, however we still desire "proof" something was wrong.

Disordered or not they were wrong for us.  And that's what we try to push aside.

Mine has cheated on every... .I mean EVERY person she has dated. There is one I don't think she cheated on. That one dumped her.

A homicide detective nonetheless. Lol.

I know an ex of my ex. I also know an ex of my exes ex. Lol. Both women told me horror stories. That's all I need to know.

[rotiroti]

Unless he/she is in hard core therapy, it's doubtful they get better.

It's hard once we are discarded. We saw many red flags and were treated horribly, however we still desire "proof" something was wrong.

Disordered or not they were wrong for us.  And that's what we try to push aside.

Mine has cheated on every... .I mean EVERY person she has dated. There is one I don't think she cheated on. That one dumped her.

A homicide detective nonetheless. Lol.

I know an ex of my ex. I also know an ex of my exes ex. Lol. Both women told me horror stories. That's all I need to know.

So very true PW!


Did the detective ever recycle? That's hilarious that she was able to recognize something being wrong

[apollotech]

How common is it for Borderlines to change and be normal?

Never. BPD never goes away, even with therapy. It is not curable, just treatable. With treatment, the maladapted coping mechanisms can be minimized, but the BPD is still there; a pwBPD can't be regressed to baseline normal.

[Blimblam]

I think its important to make a distinction here between "borderlines," and our specific exs. I think we each have a specifc person in mind we would like to see 'change,' here is the thing yes this person may be capable more or less of changing but the change may not be the one we desire. What is unsustainable is for the borderline to meet the demands of our desire, as desire itself is something that can never totally be fulfilled.  If the borderline finds themselves in the position of meeting the demands of the desire of the other they will give and give until they feel themselves disappearing at which point they will begin to resent the other. If we begin to sense this resentment and in turn begin to give of ourselves to meet the perceived demands of our ex to get back to that point in the relationship where things were good we will begin to give and give until we began to feel ourselves disappear.

I guess what I am saying is the change has more to do with recognizing that dynamic in the first place and not falling into it.

[Indyan]

A leopard doesn't change its spots, even with a job and a beach nearby.

[Pretty Woman]

NeverAgain,

    Nope this woman stayed away (detective). My ex says she thinks she was too fat for this woman. I think she was too crazy. Lol.

[rotiroti]

NeverAgain,

    Nope this woman stayed away (detective). My ex says she thinks she was too fat for this woman. I think she was too crazy. Lol.

Can it be both?

[skittles22]

Wow - thanks for the replies everyone. I'm feeling a lot better. My mind tends to wander over the simplest things and bring me down. So much great info was posted here. I still am trying to resist the urge daily to check up on her, but after so many failed relationships and friendships... .rationally she probably isn't going to change for a long long time. Probably never. But even still, my mind can twist it. Your posts help me get back on track and no doubt for a load of other people too. Thank you

EDIT: by the way, I noticed the "mirroring" she did with the guy after me months later. Suddenly she had an interest in fishing... .FISHING. She never mentioned that once in our year long relationship, and probably never did it in her life before. She was diagnosed with BPD - yet like posted here, we still seek that confirmation that something really was wrong with them

[SummerStorm]

Wow - thanks for the replies everyone. I'm feeling a lot better. My mind tends to wander over the simplest things and bring me down. So much great info was posted here. I still am trying to resist the urge daily to check up on her, but after so many failed relationships and friendships... .rationally she probably isn't going to change for a long long time. Probably never. But even still, my mind can twist it. Your posts help me get back on track and no doubt for a load of other people too. Thank you

EDIT: by the way, I noticed the "mirroring" she did with the guy after me months later. Suddenly she had an interest in fishing... .FISHING. She never mentioned that once in our year long relationship, and probably never did it in her life before. She was diagnosed with BPD - yet like posted here, we still seek that confirmation that something really was wrong with them

Mine texted me and told me that she was out barbecuing with her boyfriend.  The next day, she was playing croquet.  This is a woman who hates being outside and says the sun "hurts." She was convinced that she had changed and was all better, but it's clear that she was just mirroring.

[Lonely_Astro]

Wow - thanks for the replies everyone. I'm feeling a lot better. My mind tends to wander over the simplest things and bring me down. So much great info was posted here. I still am trying to resist the urge daily to check up on her, but after so many failed relationships and friendships... .rationally she probably isn't going to change for a long long time. Probably never. But even still, my mind can twist it. Your posts help me get back on track and no doubt for a load of other people too. Thank you

EDIT: by the way, I noticed the "mirroring" she did with the guy after me months later. Suddenly she had an interest in fishing... .FISHING. She never mentioned that once in our year long relationship, and probably never did it in her life before. She was diagnosed with BPD - yet like posted here, we still seek that confirmation that something really was wrong with them

I am with you here. I wonder quite a bit about that maybe I did trigger her into a relapse (as she claimed to be regulated when we started back up). I think maybe she had/has changed, it was me that made her go back to "old ways". Then again, after a lengthy discussion with a friend, all the odd "coincidences" I had seen during our time made sense because she had been lying to me the entire time.

Mine did seem to have an image of her own, but there is a caveat. I never really had any interaction with her mom (she has always kept me away from her or tightly controlled the scene - I saw her mom only in social settings and her mom had no idea we were together). I had recently began exploring what her mom liked/interested in toward the tail end of our relationship and I discovered that a lot of the stuff she liked, so did her mom (country music, romantic movies, etc). She was always breaking down over the rejection her mother gave her, so I think most her likes/interest were her moms likes/interest in an attempt to get acceptance from her mom.  Basically she had taken on her moms image to get acceptance... .even though I don't think she will (if what Jane told me had any truth about the emotional/physical abuse she still endures to this day from her mother).

The end result for me is that I have now come to realize that Jane may have had a moment of lucidity when we started back.  I think that went away fairly quickly, if it ever actually existed. What disappoints me most is that she will admit she's BPD and she "isn't right" (her words), but she refuses to do anything about it.  So, in my case, no... .she'll never be better. She's willfully hurting/using people and doesn't seem to care about it.