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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: Feel like I'm going backwards  (Read 889 times)
disorderedsociety
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« on: August 01, 2015, 05:05:02 PM »

I'll read whatever I can about other experiences to reassure myself of having made the right decision. Then I'll start missing her, picturing us being together, raising her kids. I know that if I wanted her back I could end up back with her and I can't decide whether it's a good or bad thing. Obviously ruminating is bad because I miss out on everything else. But something inside tells me I had a good thing going.  I can create equal arguments for and against. It's like I have grass is greener syndrome. It's putting a huge damper on my mood and affecting me at work.
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« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2015, 06:06:18 PM »

I'll read whatever I can about other experiences to reassure myself of having made the right decision. Then I'll start missing her, picturing us being together, raising her kids. I know that if I wanted her back I could end up back with her and I can't decide whether it's a good or bad thing. Obviously ruminating is bad because I miss out on everything else. But something inside tells me I had a good thing going.  I can create equal arguments for and against. It's like I have grass is greener syndrome. It's putting a huge damper on my mood and affecting me at work.

The ruminations seem to be a normal part of the process and repressing them in my experience seems to make matters much worst. Just be careful with making impulsive rash decisions in the fury of ruminations. I find talking or writing them out helps... .even if you could get like an audio recorder just talking them out loud. That energy needs an outlet preferably one that doesn't harm yourself or others.
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« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2015, 07:15:36 PM »

I'll read whatever I can about other experiences to reassure myself of having made the right decision. Then I'll start missing her, picturing us being together, raising her kids. I know that if I wanted her back I could end up back with her and I can't decide whether it's a good or bad thing. Obviously ruminating is bad because I miss out on everything else. But something inside tells me I had a good thing going.  I can create equal arguments for and against. It's like I have grass is greener syndrome. It's putting a huge damper on my mood and affecting me at work.

The ruminations seem to be a normal part of the process and repressing them in my experience seems to make matters much worst. Just be careful with making impulsive rash decisions in the fury of ruminations. I find talking or writing them out helps... .even if you could get like an audio recorder just talking them out loud. That energy needs an outlet preferably one that doesn't harm yourself or others.

It's almost like an entity that takes over my mind, telling me to go back and create more pain.
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« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2015, 08:37:59 PM »

Well pain is better than lonliness sometimes. Good thing this experiences can lead us to reconnecting with friends, family, and ourselves
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« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2015, 09:24:03 PM »

It's perfectly natural to ruminate, and miss your ex. It's natural to feel torn between wanting the relationship you thought you had, and not wanting the pain of the reality. It's natural to think about the good times and push back the bad times.

It also happens that people go back. There's nothing wrong with that, and it's entirely your choice. But, like Blimblam said,

Excerpt
Just be careful with making impulsive rash decisions in the fury of ruminations.

It's good to explore these ruminations and emotions when you have them. Sit with them and probe into them, figure out what they're trying to tell you about yourself.

For instance, you said this... .

telling me to go back and create more pain.

Why do you think your mind would be telling you to go back, if you know that it would only lead to more pain? Do you feel like you deserve pain? Do you feel like the good parts outweigh the painful parts?

There is no going backwards on your personal journey. Healing is not a linear process. Go easy on yourself for grieving a loss.  
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disorderedsociety
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« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2015, 11:43:23 PM »

It's perfectly natural to ruminate, and miss your ex. It's natural to feel torn between wanting the relationship you thought you had, and not wanting the pain of the reality. It's natural to think about the good times and push back the bad times.

It also happens that people go back. There's nothing wrong with that, and it's entirely your choice. But, like Blimblam said,

Excerpt
Just be careful with making impulsive rash decisions in the fury of ruminations.

It's good to explore these ruminations and emotions when you have them. Sit with them and probe into them, figure out what they're trying to tell you about yourself.

For instance, you said this... .

telling me to go back and create more pain.

Why do you think your mind would be telling you to go back, if you know that it would only lead to more pain? Do you feel like you deserve pain? Do you feel like the good parts outweigh the painful parts?

There is no going backwards on your personal journey. Healing is not a linear process. Go easy on yourself for grieving a loss.  

I'm not sure. The issue is when I idealize my idea of how things could be, versus the harsh reality which is that she found someone quickly and made it clear it didn't matter who went to be with her. I somehow will even overlook the fact that she's -having his kid- and think, oh it doesn't matter, I'd be doing a good thing for someone.

Even though, before she had a second one coming and I left for -a day- I was miserable and bored when I returned. But if only I'd moved us into a house, she said. We'd be happy.

And the cycle continues, where I wonder if we would've been happy or if I'd have just been lying to myself. I'm not one to make a decision like leaving rashly, especially if I think it's gonna hurt someone.
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« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2015, 12:00:16 AM »

its like trying to fill a bottomless pit, the problem is not that you cant fill it... .the problem is you actually tried and she could no longer blame you because you tried so it must be her. Its this confrontation with this emptiness within herself with no one to blame that triggers the devaluing or hater stage.
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« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2015, 12:24:49 AM »

It's almost like an entity that takes over my mind, telling me to go back and create more pain.

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

It is just that feeling embedded in that line of thought where I have found my answers.

who does she remind you of?  who are you really trying to get back to?
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« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2015, 12:42:30 AM »

its like trying to fill a bottomless pit, the problem is not that you cant fill it... .the problem is you actually tried and she could no longer blame you because you tried so it must be her. Its this confrontation with this emptiness within herself with no one to blame that triggers the devaluing or hater stage.

Makes sense, must be why she said "thanks for everything" at the end since I did so much for her. During the r/s I'd ask her why she felt so bad and she'd tell me its always been that way, that it's not me. I'd always be asking if I caused x or y to happen and it frustrated her.

When I made contact a few weeks later it was the opposite. She called me names and devalued me.

Then later I get a text wishing me good luck.

I think the only way to love or care about such a person is from a good long distance, so you're not going overboard trying to meet their needs and neglecting your own. It's sad... .Did I ever truly know her? She might act completely different around the new guy. Maybe I knew her as well as I could, possibly why I saw the darkness. I'm just sad there wasn't more.

One of the big triggers now is imagining her and the new guy having sex, like is she liking it more with him?

Ridiculous.

Edit: Well, my first guess is she reminds me of my mother. In fact, my mother shows all the signs of BPD and she gaslights like no other. I wonder if it's a way of owning my feminine, lunar traits that I disowned in an effort to not remind myself how close the apple falls from the tree... .
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« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2015, 12:45:50 AM »

its like trying to fill a bottomless pit, the problem is not that you cant fill it... .the problem is you actually tried and she could no longer blame you because you tried so it must be her. Its this confrontation with this emptiness within herself with no one to blame that triggers the devaluing or hater stage.

actually this is not exactly correct.   Her identity is based on this "other," that is always out of reach that she must try to please.  When the other tries to please her and it doesn't fill the pit the entire premise of her reality is taken away from her and she is confronted with the original trauma of abandonment and the fantasy of the out of reach object if she could only grasp it things will be ok was the psyches attempt to make sense of that unspeakable horror... .without that not only does she have nothing... .to her she is nothing.
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« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2015, 12:54:23 AM »

its like trying to fill a bottomless pit, the problem is not that you cant fill it... .the problem is you actually tried and she could no longer blame you because you tried so it must be her. Its this confrontation with this emptiness within herself with no one to blame that triggers the devaluing or hater stage.

actually this is not exactly correct.   Her identity is based on this "other," that is always out of reach that she must try to please.  When the other tries to please her and it doesn't fill the pit the entire premise of her reality is taken away from her and she is confronted with the original trauma of abandonment and the fantasy of the out of reach object if she could only grasp it things will be ok was the psyches attempt to make sense of that unspeakable horror... .without that not only does she have nothing... .to her she is nothing.

Well, in both scenarios it seems that a lack of validation sought from outside triggers feelings of emptiness. Which is why she'd always want me to go get her alcohol late at night. She said it helped her anxiety to drink, and that the anxiety would start late in the day (this was after being medicated.)

The "other" also makes sense. She'd describe how she could grasp onto some interests or good feelings but they would always disappear. I think I might have supplied some of the security she needed to do so, at best. I was an enabler at worst. Now I realize she probably did not even see me as a person, more like a projection of what she was trying to find. She told me she saw people in general as objects, like 2D paper cutouts. There were a lot of times shed say, "my eyes are doing that thing again, where everything looks real for a second and goes back to flatness." Then it was "tell me my retinas aren't detaching, please."

I'm guessing it was a cycle between derealisation and lucidity? Who knows.
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« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2015, 01:01:28 AM »

I idealize my idea of how things could be, versus the harsh reality which is that she found someone quickly and made it clear it didn't matter who went to be with her.

I somehow will even overlook the fact that she's -having his kid- and think, oh it doesn't matter, I'd be doing a good thing for someone.

I'm not one to make a decision like leaving rashly, especially if I think it's gonna hurt someone.

Let's think about this for a minute. I realize you are only fantasizing/ruminating about the possibilities however let's do a reality check on the ruminations.

What's the true harsh reality here? It might be the answers to the questions below.

Who would you really be doing good for?

Who all will be hurt?

Let's say you're right and she would leave him for you, do you want someone who might leave YOU after having YOUR child? What might that do to you?

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« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2015, 01:05:36 AM »

the alchohol and drug use... .and all the bodily aches and pains like the anxiety are aspects of the psyche that are unable to be symbolicaly represented within the psyche so they manifest directly in the body. The conscious altering substances are a way to physically direct them into symbolic representation within the psyche.
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« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2015, 01:11:48 AM »

I idealize my idea of how things could be, versus the harsh reality which is that she found someone quickly and made it clear it didn't matter who went to be with her.

I somehow will even overlook the fact that she's -having his kid- and think, oh it doesn't matter, I'd be doing a good thing for someone.

I'm not one to make a decision like leaving rashly, especially if I think it's gonna hurt someone.

Let's think about this for a minute. I realize you are only fantasizing/ruminating about the possibilities however let's do a reality check on the ruminations.

What's the true harsh reality here? It might be the answers to the questions below.

Who would you really be doing good for?

Who all will be hurt?

Let's say you're right and she would leave him for you, do you want someone who might leave YOU after having YOUR child? What might that do to you?

My best answers are... .

The harsh reality is that she possibly never loved me at all. And the fact she's having another guys kid, and has one from the guy before me. And that I never felt accepted by her family, let alone now that she's told them things that they probably see me as a horrible person for.

It may be that I'm only doing good for myself, especially since all of this is going on in -my- head, not hers. I don't know what she's thinking.

Who would be hurt if I went back and things didn't work out again? She certainly didn't spend time mourning losing me. Obviously she only sees attachment potential given her behavior when we broke up like impulsive sex.

Lastly, she wasn't the type to leave even when I was miserable. She's probably a 6 on most guy's scales which could be why (I feel horrible saying that.)

So, I'm leaning toward saying that such a decision, even the thoughts of such a decision are part of a dysfunctional identity I've made up in my head.

And on a practical level, I would probably end up resenting raising 2 offspring not my own, let alone the cost.
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« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2015, 01:15:47 AM »

the alchohol and drug use... .and all the bodily aches and pains like the anxiety are aspects of the psyche that are unable to be symbolicaly represented within the psyche so they manifest directly in the body. The conscious altering substances are a way to physically direct them into symbolic representation within the psyche.

You've really helped me uncover some connections... .

So one could say her inability to 'see' the truth was manifested in eye pain, and that drinking was a way to put a form to that form of impairment.

She -always- had at least 4-5 small bruises on arms and legs that would appear out of nowhere... .and of course ones from occasionally punching herself. It broke my heart to witness that. I can't imagine... .

From more recent photos she seems to have some physical fidgets going on, ones I've seen before. I'm not sure if that sort of thing ever gets better no matter who they're with.
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« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2015, 01:55:04 AM »

The harsh reality is that she possibly never loved me at all. And the fact she's having another guys kid, and has one from the guy before me. And that I never felt accepted by her family, let alone now that she's told them things that they probably see me as a horrible person for.

Do you see her as an emotionally available person? Someone who is emotionally unavailable is incapable of love in a true, healthy sense.

It may be that I'm only doing good for myself, especially since all of this is going on in -my- head, not hers. I don't know what she's thinking.

There are other people aside from you and her involved. It's hard to step outside of our relationships with our exs and see the bigger picture while we still emotionally attached.

Who would be hurt if I went back and things didn't work out again? She certainly didn't spend time mourning losing me. Obviously she only sees attachment potential given her behavior when we broke up like impulsive sex.

Who would be hurt if things did work out and she came back? This child maybe? How about the child's father?

Lastly, she wasn't the type to leave even when I was miserable. She's probably a 6 on most guy's scales which could be why (I feel horrible saying that.)

Ok, let's imagine she did though, what would that do to you? Once you explore that, you may be able to empathize with this child's father if she leaves him.

So, I'm leaning toward saying that such a decision, even the thoughts of such a decision are part of a dysfunctional identity I've made up in my head.

Who's identity?

And on a practical level, I would probably end up resenting raising 2 offspring not my own, let alone the cost.

Do you think the father wouldn't be involved in this child's life? If not, why? Plenty of deadbeat dads out there but why assume this guy would be one of them? On the flip side, if you see yourself possibly resenting raising two children who aren't your own how emotionally available do you see yourself?

No judgement in my questions, it's an attempt to explore a broader picture of what you are contemplating.

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« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2015, 02:19:53 AM »

Those are good questions. I see her as emotionally available in the sense she'll do whatever it takes to sustain a connection, but it never felt like we were on the same page. I always held back a part of myself. I don't know if this was out of self protection or out of fear of committing. But I was definitely afraid to commit to someone I didn't see as healthy emotionally. There were many behaviors I witnessed on both our parts that were unhealthy.

On one hand I do feel like I shouldn't try to judge them too harshly. It could be that the guy does want to have a child. Seems rash doing that 1 month into their relationship but he did tell me they were a lot alike. I don't know if she was just mirroring him initially or if they share similar experiences. Probably both.

I don't know where I'm going with all this... .I don't want to think that it was my fault things went bad. I did decide to leave, but there were many occasions I tried to express love and they didn't "compute" or she didn't respond in a way that made me feel loved enough to feel like it was worth investing. At the end of the day, once she was in another room all I could think about was leaving her.

And that's where things get dark. I moved in with her at 19, she was 22. I had nowhere else to go and did not even know what boundaries were. You could say I used her and she used me. But eventually I got attached. If not romantically on my part, I still felt like we were best friends; she definitely attached to me quickly.

So there's the jealousy, that the new guy is simply more honest and compassionate and can make things work.

I feel like a sociopath... . 
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« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2015, 02:52:16 AM »

Here are some traits I found of emotionally unavailable people. This may be helpful.

Is more a taker than a giver.

Has trouble committing, falling in love or giving his/her heart.

Is insecure, anxious, depressed or angry a lot.

Is substance-addicted.

Has an emotional wall up, and is unable to be truly vulnerable to another person.

Does not feel worthy of love.

Is not at peace with a previous relationship, or is grieving the loss of a previous relationship.

Is in another relationship and is therefore encumbered.

Cannot resist other romantic or sexual temptations.

Is self-absorbed. Tends to his own needs, feelings and desires first. Rarely puts him/herself second.

Doesn't listen well, and doesn't hear you well.

Is deceptive, dishonest or misleading. Does not say what he means, or does not mean what he says.

Pushes away when things are close and intimate.

Doesn't have time for you, places you as a low priority or is routinely preoccupied with other things.

Does not make a strong emotional connection with you.

Doesn't know herself. Isn't in touch with her own feelings, needs or wants.

Lacks self-confidence or self-esteem. Doesn't believe in himself, or has low self-worth.

Is an obsessive worrier.

Is self-destructive or self-sabotaging.

Is loaded with regrets.

Is highly critical or judgmental.

Is emotionally unstable.

Is intensely possessive or jealous.

Cannot tolerate reasonable criticism or requests that he alter a behavior without getting angry, defensive or reactive.

Doesn't put a lot of effort into a relationship. Expects the other person to put forth most of the effort.

Even one of these traits can represent an emotionally unavailable person, but the more of these traits that fit, the greater the degree of emotional unavailability — because all these traits push people away or keep you emotionally insulated.

Why would someone do this? It keeps them safe, and protects them from getting hurt or rejected.


~Neil Rosenthal

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit: Is not at peace with a previous relationship, or is grieving the loss of a previous relationship.

This is where we are when we first end a relationship. When all of our thoughts are still wrapped up in our past relationship. This is pretty normal when we are newly single again. It's when we fully grieve and accept the end of our relationships that we can be available and open to a new relationship. Think of it this way... .would you want to be in a relationship with someone who is still pining for and grieving the loss of their ex? Where is there room for thoughts of you? And vice versa?
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« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2015, 02:58:40 AM »

The ruminations have led me to realize I was emotionally unavailable to her. Which is why I always thought her symptoms were my fault, because I felt guilty. She's got BPD traits but we probably could have worked had I let her in during her 'up' times.  :/

I think it was my distance that triggered a lot of her symptoms. She was very self aware and there were many times she would prepare the daughters food, cook for me, try to deal with personal stressors from her mom and make time for me. And all I could think about was my escape plan.

I may very well have discarded her.  Then again, I've never had a close, mutually healthy relationship. The one right before was when I was 18, she was 16. It was that kind of thing. So intuitively I knew there were times this one didn't have the depth to perceive many subtleties in expression and it hampered things.

Then again. That can simply be a difference in personal expression. I don't know where to draw the line.

Edit: On having moved past the last one... .I carried baggage and comparisons from my last one to this one. This one compared me to her last one (who was supposedly satan incarnate) at first when I'd do something she perceived as bad. She stopped when I told her I was sick of it. I found  picture of them hidden in her closet later on. He had written, "you lost me!" on the back. Even after I figured she'd long forgotten about him she asked a mutual friend, in front of me, how he was doing or if he'd heard anything about him. This could be normal or BPD, I'm not sure.

When I left, she kept a computer case shed gotten me as a gift. Another memento I guess. I don't know what purpose they serve but I would guess the pain of loss of the guy before, and me, will carry over.
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« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2015, 03:12:48 AM »

Bpd traits do not come from us, they were there long before we entered the picture. Yes, we can play a role in current behaviors however we did not cause the traits that existed.

If you were distant there was a reason. It may or may not have been because of her behaviors, it's something you may want to explore. Did you feel a need to keep yourself safe?
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« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2015, 03:17:13 AM »

Bpd traits do not come from us, they were there long before we entered the picture. Yes, we can play a role in current behaviors however we did not cause the traits that existed.

If you were distant there was a reason. It may or may not have been because of her behaviors, it's something you may want to explore. Did you feel a need to keep yourself safe?

I did... .I felt it was weird how quickly she moved me into her and her mom's place, and their fights set off an alarm. I was always kind of leery after that. Then when she brought up her ex... .It hurt and confused me. Add the crying and panic attacks and I felt like the situation was unpredictable.

I think it might have been simply the aging factor, being 25 and a mother that she projects more of an air of settling down, because she knew it would get more difficult to find someone new later on. A few of the Waif traits apply where before she was more Witch/Queen.
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« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2015, 03:30:01 AM »

I felt it was weird how quickly she moved me into her and her mom's place, and their fights set off an alarm. I was always kind of leery after that. Then when she brought up her ex... .It hurt and confused me. Add the crying and panic attacks and I felt like the situation was unpredictable.

Ok, so you have identified traits on the list for you... .where do you see her history in the list? Was she emotionally available? Would it be fair to say that she not only still had unresolved issues with or thoughts about her ex but her mother too?  And... do you think that has changed just because there's someone else in her life?
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« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2015, 01:07:11 PM »

I felt it was weird how quickly she moved me into her and her mom's place, and their fights set off an alarm. I was always kind of leery after that. Then when she brought up her ex... .It hurt and confused me. Add the crying and panic attacks and I felt like the situation was unpredictable.

Ok, so you have identified traits on the list for you... .where do you see her history in the list? Was she emotionally available? Would it be fair to say that she not only still had unresolved issues with or thoughts about her ex but her mother too?  And... do you think that has changed just because there's someone else in her life?

It would definitely suffice to say she's got a lot of work to do. I'm guessing no, it wouldn't change, just postpone her feelings.

Leaving this relationship has had many parallels with drug addiction.
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« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2015, 01:29:29 PM »

It would definitely suffice to say she's got a lot of work to do.

How likely do you think it would be, with all her distractions (her mother, her child, a new one on the way, her current bf and her BPD characteristics getting in the way), that she will realize she has work to do? It takes a realization first that you (or her in this case) have work to do.

I'm guessing no, it wouldn't change, just postpone her feelings.

Did she postpone her feelings with you? With moving you in quickly to her mother's home, feeling comfortable enough or not seeing any inappropriateness in having arguments that alarmed you and her having crying and panic attacks, I'd guess her disorder is in charge.

Leaving this relationship has had many parallels with drug addiction.

Excellent observation. You may want to explore this on your side of the street so that in the future you will recognize the flags, in you, that are triggered by someone whom is disordered or who is emotionally unavailable. We can't recognize flags in others unless we first recognize them in ourselves. This is a welcome side effect of becoming more self aware.
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« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2015, 06:46:49 PM »

It would definitely suffice to say she's got a lot of work to do.

How likely do you think it would be, with all her distractions (her mother, her child, a new one on the way, her current bf and her BPD characteristics getting in the way), that she will realize she has work to do? It takes a realization first that you (or her in this case) have work to do.

I'm guessing no, it wouldn't change, just postpone her feelings.

Did she postpone her feelings with you? With moving you in quickly to her mother's home, feeling comfortable enough or not seeing any inappropriateness in having arguments that alarmed you and her having crying and panic attacks, I'd guess her disorder is in charge.

Leaving this relationship has had many parallels with drug addiction.

Excellent observation. You may want to explore this on your side of the street so that in the future you will recognize the flags, in you, that are triggered by someone whom is disordered or who is emotionally unavailable. We can't recognize flags in others unless we first recognize them in ourselves. This is a welcome side effect of becoming more self aware.

This is good. I do feel like her BPD behaviors got a lot better on medication but I have heard it only delays the inevitable ruining of relationships. I imagine she's a lot happier with this guy now but I could very well be making myself depressed for nothing.
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