Struggling with making contact or not.

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I have been really struggling with some guilt. My story is like many other long term realtionship, Ex broke-up with me, lived in the house in seperate rooms for a year (which was very difficult and emotional). My Ex had been on dating sites the that whole year and meet my first replacement, but she lived 3 hours away. Moved out into her own place, and maintained the long distance realtionship for a another month or two and the replacement ended things. I had been in no contact. Things got really ugly when the move happened, even though I helped her move out and helped with $$. Anway she contacted me last Nov. She wanted to come visit the pets, that first visit didn't go so well, she was very angry with me. I didn't know she had been dumped. Things cooled down. She was all over the place at first, saying she wanted to commit suicide, that she was no good at being alone. Then she started saying things like the house and me always felt like home, she wanted to try work on things. This all played out over several months. So I was like ok, but we weern't back together just hanging out some and trying to work on communication issues.

Truth is the last few months of lisening to her complain and emotionally dump was wearing me out. Also she lost another job in all this (12-14 jobs, maybe more, in 21 yrs). So that had her seriously depressed and she starting asking for $$. So I helped as much as I could. Then I started to realize it only seemed like she was contacting me when she need something from me. Like can I come do laundry? Can you give me $$ any amount will help? OR just doing her usual emotional dump. I guess I backed way some. Then the shift. She was still contacting me, but it was only for the things I mentioned above. There was no more talk about working on things. I guess this must have been when she somehow in all her dispare and chaos she met my second reaplcement. I knew in my gut something was wrong and even mentioned it. She wouldn't tell me.

Of course this triggered me, my gut has never been wrong. I guess I should see that as a good thing, but I sometimes hate it. So finally she tells me the truth that she has been seeing someone and that she thought we weren't trying to work on things anymore. I was like you never told me you chanegd your mind, so I thought we were. Besides honesty, and communication are key in for friendships too. So of course I am hurt, I am upset with myself for believing her. So I backed away even more. I didn't go into NC, but kept my communciation to minimum. She continued to ask me for money and come over and do laundry. She would IM about trivial stuff. This lasted for a few weeks. Then I helped her one last time with $$, so she could stay in her apartment until the lease was up. I didn't feel good about it, but did anyway and told myself this was the last time.

Well all hell broke lose, of course after she took the money. We had an arguement about soemthing trivial she took from the house, she had a few things there. She was going to take to her sisters for storage. Guess this should have been a . So through IM she informs me they are in love and moving in with the 2nd replacement, only after a few months (can't even call and talk to me or F2F). I guess I helped finance that, sigh. I look back and think that this had already been decided and she need money and I didn't want to tell me. Just seems like a lot of lies or manipulation to get her needs taken care of.

I felt like I had been sucker punched, dumped to the curb again. I help pull her out of her funk so that she could be strong enough to find her next shiny new toy. That is how I felt at the time and still do sort of. It hurts like hell. I really loved her, still do, put up with so much. I was willing to go the distance, even with all the issues. I know I have my own issues and things to work and that is where I am at right now.

Anyway she sent me some nasty IMs, things like I never wanted her to be happy, and tried to control her. She also unfriended me on FB for the second time. She also is unable to forgive me (or herself I think) for things that happened over the years. The relationship had a lot of ups and downs. Som pretty nasty fights. We both have issues with communication and expressing ourselves. Then it was sweet your my BFF IMs which included things like I love you and you have done so much for me. She wants me to meet the 2nd replacement. That I am her only friend. I told her I need time. It's been 4 weeks since I have seen her and 3 weeks NC.

So this is my struggle now. I really want to send her email. I want to explain to her that I would love to be able to be friends, but I can't right now. I feel guilty because I said we could and now I am pulling back from that. I need to learn to set boundaries and take care of myself, love myself, find myself. I know I lost my self in this relationship. Also want to tell her that I don't think it's possible to be friends until we can forgive each other for past hurts and forgive ourselves too. At the same time I am not sure it would go well or even help sending a message, even a loving one.

I am working on these things. But I am still in a lot of pain and feel all twisted up inside about what has happened the last few months. I am not sure I am reallly ready to make contact. I don't know if I want to make contact because having contact will easy the pain of the unknown and take me to a place I am used to and comfortable with, even though it isn't the most healthy place. Maybe it's me grasping for some control over what seems so out of control right?

Just feeling so lost right now and I just don't have anyone to talk to about this. My family is there for me, but they don't understand. They feel like my Ex mistreated me all these years. Which is true to an extent, but it takes two, and I know I did things to hurt my Ex too.

Anyway, sorry this post ended up longer then I thought. Any thoughts, suggestions, anyone willing to chat, would be of great help. I want to be moving foward not stuck in this spot that I am.

Thanks for listening. 

[twanda2020]

I have been really struggling with some guilt. My story is like many other long term realtionship, Ex broke-up with me, lived in the house in seperate rooms for a year (which was very difficult and emotional). My Ex had been on dating sites the that whole year and meet my first replacement, but she lived 3 hours away. Moved out into her own place, and maintained the long distance realtionship for a another month or two and the replacement ended things. I had been in no contact. Things got really ugly when the move happened, even though I helped her move out and helped with $$. Anway she contacted me last Nov. She wanted to come visit the pets, that first visit didn't go so well, she was very angry with me. I didn't know she had been dumped. Things cooled down. She was all over the place at first, saying she wanted to commit suicide, that she was no good at being alone. Then she started saying things like the house and me always felt like home, she wanted to try work on things. This all played out over several months. So I was like ok, but we weern't back together just hanging out some and trying to work on communication issues.

Truth is the last few months of lisening to her complain and emotionally dump was wearing me out. Also she lost another job in all this (12-14 jobs, maybe more, in 21 yrs). So that had her seriously depressed and she starting asking for $$. So I helped as much as I could. Then I started to realize it only seemed like she was contacting me when she need something from me. Like can I come do laundry? Can you give me $$ any amount will help? OR just doing her usual emotional dump. I guess I backed way some. Then the shift. She was still contacting me, but it was only for the things I mentioned above. There was no more talk about working on things. I guess this must have been when she somehow in all her dispare and chaos she met my second reaplcement. I knew in my gut something was wrong and even mentioned it. She wouldn't tell me.

Of course this triggered me, my gut has never been wrong. I guess I should see that as a good thing, but I sometimes hate it. So finally she tells me the truth that she has been seeing someone and that she thought we weren't trying to work on things anymore. I was like you never told me you chanegd your mind, so I thought we were. Besides honesty, and communication are key in for friendships too. So of course I am hurt, I am upset with myself for believing her. So I backed away even more. I didn't go into NC, but kept my communciation to minimum. She continued to ask me for money and come over and do laundry. She would IM about trivial stuff. This lasted for a few weeks. Then I helped her one last time with $$, so she could stay in her apartment until the lease was up. I didn't feel good about it, but did anyway and told myself this was the last time.

Well all hell broke lose, of course after she took the money. We had an arguement about soemthing trivial she took from the house, she had a few things there. She was going to take to her sisters for storage. Guess this should have been a . So through IM she informs me they are in love and moving in with the 2nd replacement, only after a few months (can't even call and talk to me or F2F). I guess I helped finance that, sigh. I look back and think that this had already been decided and she need money and I didn't want to tell me. Just seems like a lot of lies or manipulation to get her needs taken care of.

I felt like I had been sucker punched, dumped to the curb again. I help pull her out of her funk so that she could be strong enough to find her next shiny new toy. That is how I felt at the time and still do sort of. It hurts like hell. I really loved her, still do, put up with so much. I was willing to go the distance, even with all the issues. I know I have my own issues and things to work and that is where I am at right now.

Anyway she sent me some nasty IMs, things like I never wanted her to be happy, and tried to control her. She also unfriended me on FB for the second time. She also is unable to forgive me (or herself I think) for things that happened over the years. The relationship had a lot of ups and downs. Som pretty nasty fights. We both have issues with communication and expressing ourselves. Then it was sweet your my BFF IMs which included things like I love you and you have done so much for me. She wants me to meet the 2nd replacement. That I am her only friend. I told her I need time. It's been 4 weeks since I have seen her and 3 weeks NC.

So this is my struggle now. I really want to send her email. I want to explain to her that I would love to be able to be friends, but I can't right now. I feel guilty because I said we could and now I am pulling back from that. I need to learn to set boundaries and take care of myself, love myself, find myself. I know I lost my self in this relationship. Also want to tell her that I don't think it's possible to be friends until we can forgive each other for past hurts and forgive ourselves too. At the same time I am not sure it would go well or even help sending a message, even a loving one.

I am working on these things. But I am still in a lot of pain and feel all twisted up inside about what has happened the last few months. I am not sure I am reallly ready to make contact. I don't know if I want to make contact because having contact will easy the pain of the unknown and take me to a place I am used to and comfortable with, even though it isn't the most healthy place. Maybe it's me grasping for some control over what seems so out of control right?

Just feeling so lost right now and I just don't have anyone to talk to about this. My family is there for me, but they don't understand. They feel like my Ex mistreated me all these years. Which is true to an extent, but it takes two, and I know I did things to hurt my Ex too.

Anyway, sorry this post ended up longer then I thought. Any thoughts, suggestions, anyone willing to chat, would be of great help. I want to be moving foward not stuck in this spot that I am.

Thanks for listening. 

[scgator]

Sorry you're going through all this - I think we all are on here in some way or another. Dealing with the pull of this addictive relationship. One thing that seems to help me a little is looking over the "staying" board - it seems like 95% of the posts are all about how difficult it is. Is that truly what we want to sign up for in this life? It's the only one we get. I've been ambivalent over my rs recently so I know how you feel, that urge to reach out and just say what's on your mind. I honestly don't think it will help anyone. You're better off writing it in a journal for yourself. I heard from my ex yesterday and she demonstrated that she will never take any responsibility for any of her actions throughout the rs. NEVER unless years of core trauma work is done. I can say NEVER because she's in full blown denial. I'm the one with all the problems, she was raised to treat people with kindness and respect. Just another indication that she doesn't really know who she is or that she deletes all the negative things she's said and done from her reality. 

It is sad, I truly feel sorry that anyone has to go through life like that. As they say, if we can have all this empathy and compassion for someone that treats us worse than their worst enemies at times then why can't we have that compassion and empathy for ourselves?

My suggestion, and what I'm working on now is - Love yourself, if you can't, find a way and find out why you are attracted to this bully. Look at the opportunity life has given YOU for personal growth. This can truly be life changing for you if you embrace this opportunity.

[JQ]

Twanda,  

Welcome to the group ... .reaching out is a positive sign that you're looking for help, assistance from others and that is a good sign. Someone with BPD is a challenge even for th trained professional. Here you'll find no judgement, we here because we've falling in love with someone who has BPD and we want to help them but there are things beyond our control and this is one. I've had to learn about the 3 C's of BPD. YOU didn't Cause this. YOU can't Control it!  YOU can't Cure it!   It's only when they want to know why they act or react they way the do, do they find a therapist for assistance, guidance and help through the FOG. Until THEY choose to get help things are never going to get better for you and more importantly her. And evidence suggest that someone with BPD is going to have to be in therapy for pretty much the rest of their life.

Your story isn't much different then mine, or anyone else's in the group as scgator suggest. It's possible that for reasons beyond your control you're a codependent, a care giver, a peace maker, Knight in armor, the white hat cowboy. You want to help her, support her, give everything up for her including money but more importantly your health.  I would suggest that if you're having any thoughts of staying and trying to make it work, that you completely delve into the world of what BPD is and learn all that you can. Learn from a clinical perspective, learn from a person who has BPD perspective and learn more about it from your perspective which would include looking inward at yourself, self evaluation, introspection. Read it, know it, live it because it's the only way you're going to rise above it all and survive with or without her.

You'll read about push / pull, black & white, triangulation, raging, projection and a host of other new terms and what they mean and how they affect you and her. For someone who has BPD, they are emotionally stunted meaning they have the emotions of a 2 or 3 year old and if you've ever really sat down with a 3 year old to have a conversation, you know of it doesn't make since and the way they reason is ... .well ... .interesting to say the least. Something happen to the early in childhood that caused them to think & behave the way they do. THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT!  They learned coping & survival skills that helped them get through what ever trauma they were constantly dealing with.  With no professional intervention it was skills they honed and practice when they never got their way. But it so much complicated then that. They want, crave, need closeness in a relationship as we all do ... .this is where they pull you in. But because of the emotional issues  and EXTREME fear of abandonment, they push you away. I They push you away because they feel with or without cause that you're going to leave true or not. So in order to prevent them from getting hurt they are the one to call things off and break up. I know it doesn't make since, nothing with someone who has BPD makes sense. Again, it's like a 3 year old reasoning of why they do something, it doesn't make sense. Know that years of therapy is in their future. My exBPD gf has been going to therapy off and on for decades. She's had two marriages, more bf's then I would care to think about. I see glimpses of clarity every once in awhile and it gives me pause for hope for her ... .but then in a short period I'm reminded why we are currently ex's. It isn't easy by any means.

I can't tell you how many times I've been friended and unfriended on FB. I'm currently in good standings for the past month & I'm once again FB friends. BUUUT, so is currently BF2 and exbf3. Oh and there is a college friend who was a bf and she has admitted sexting once or twice over the years. I tried the same thing you did about FB friends with old bf's, that conversation didn't end well as did yours. But God forbid if I have any ex wives or gfs as FB friends.

She has in the last month told me that she wanted to start over again from the beginning. What exactly does that mean is anybody's guess. I've known her since high school and knew she was a special person in my life. We lost track of each other until Dec 2012 when she reached out on FB. From then it's been a crazy train roller coaster ride with no end in sight. She has told me within a week of telling me she wanted to start over that she knows the current relationship with bf2 isn't working out and needs to end. She's told me she had to come to this realization on her own. She has said that she's not getting what she needs from it, but he takes her on cross country trips, movies, "He spoils me". I think he provides a fantasy world away from the day to day issues of work and raising two kids. And she knows that it's not a good thing since he has already raised his kids and they're out of the house. What does all that mean for me? I don't know ... .I told her I've even taken classes how to be a good step dad ... .but at the moment I'm currently in a time out. Yep like that time out when you punish a kid and you put them in a time out with no contact, no toys, no nothing, just sit there and think about what you did.

This time out has lasted a week ... .although I don't know if it's completely a time out. She went on vacation for a week with her kids and has access to internet, and texting but no communication for what will be a week on Friday, day after tomorrow. She's been on FB because I've checked other post from other friends and it tells me she was just on. I'm not going to get wrapped round the axel as it would do me no good. Someone with BPD has to feel THEY are in control and will do things when THEY are good and ready. We've had a couple of conversations and their has been a couple of incidents that give me pause to think that after decades of off again and on again therapy are helping, but she has a long way to go.

Now what scgator has said should give us all cause to think about. "Is that truly what we want to sign up for in this life? It's the only one we get."  Ask yourself the following questions to others you've asked and really ... .REALLY search out for the truth.  Why do you love her? Would she be a good mother to your children? Does she treat you with mutual respect? Does she treat others with mutual respect?  What would she do if you were in a bad way and you really needed her? Would she bolt? Would she stay?  Is she worthy of being your partner in life?  Would she be a good shot during the pending Zombie apocalypse? That last one was a moment of comedy ... .well sort of ... .is she a good shot?  Seriously, I've had 2 exgf who had BPD, the first one was total batsh!t crazy.  Complete BPD in every one of the 9 categories. She was over heard by a law enforcement buddy of mine after we broke up & a girl told her she would like to go out with me. She looked at her with fire coming from her eyes and said "if I can't have him no one will". It was after that I bought a 9mm and got a concealed carry permit for my own safety. Don't laugh, there are plenty of examples of a BPD doing crazy things. How many times have you heard about a love triangle going bad? jus saying.

I would like to point out another thing that scgator has mentioned. "My suggestion, and what I'm working on now is - Love yourself, if you can't, find a way and find out why you are attracted to this bully. Look at the opportunity life has given YOU for personal growth. This can truly be life changing for you if you embrace this opportunity."   I'm doing the same, introspection, learning to love & explore life because as she said you only get one chance at this. I've almost left this planet more than once, it's TOO SHORT for what should of been, what could be.  WE all deserve to be in a loving, caring, mutually respectful relationship ... .and we all have to make our own choice who that will TRY to be with. I continue to go back and forth with my exBPDgf, as I said, I've seen moments of clarity, but do I really want to spend what time I have left on this planet wishing ... .should of? Could of? Not really ... .

Be safe, welcome to the group, come back as much as you need to for guidance, help, vent, blow off steam, get someone's opinion ... .but in the end ... .it's all you

JQ

[twanda2020]

Thanks JQ and scgator for your words, understanding and encouragement.

Would she be a good shot during the pending Zombie apocalypse? That last one was a moment of comedy ... .well sort of ... .is she a good shot?

Just as an FYI this is a requirement for any future relationships. They must be a very good shot, never know when the zombie apocalypse will happen.  

I have been feeling  better this week. I am not thinking (obsessing) as much as I was. I know right now what is best for me is to just be focusing on me. I need to be right with myself, who I am, what I want, and where I am headed. I can't get there if I keep thinking about all the what if's and what the hell happened things.

My most recent fear or obsession has been when contact happens. When she finally decides to contact me, when I am no longer in a time out, or the next relationship starts going to sh!t. I know it's a matter of time. As stubborn, angry, and hateful as she can be, I am still the only person who stuck with her for 2 decades. So I am her safety net in a sense. I just want to be a far stronger person then I feel I am right now when that contact happens. I can't/won't get sucked back in. I am not going through this BS again. I love her, I always will, but things have to change. Only way I would even consider getting back together as a couple is if (1) She has forgiven me and herself for the past hurts and mistakes (2) She gets help (therapy) and is serious about it and (3) couples therapy. Now if it is just friendship I think the forgiveness part is the main requirement. Rebuilding trust that will be the hard part no matter what.

Right now I am in NC and staying there. I am still to easily triggered by just thoughts, so communication is not a good idea. I know she probably thinks I am being a complete a$$hole, but I have to do this. She wanted me out of her business, so that is what I am doing.

Staying strong, or at least trying too!  

[JQ]

Twanda,

It's good to see that you're keeping your since of humor, it's helped all of us get through the toughest parts of being in OR out of a relationship with someone who has BPD. 

I have found that as time passes, and I have less and less contact or communication with her, things get easier, I miss her less and less, I get less anxious, less angry. I was taught some time ago that doing something for 30 days makes a habit. if you make your bed 30 days in a row, exercise 30 days in a row, etc. it, (what ever IT is) will become a habit. No Contact (NC) for 30 days will become a habit. It will get easier not to talk to her or obsess about her, what she's doing or not doing, who she's seeing not seeing. And when she shows up, calls, emails, friend request it will be easier to say no, not answer, or return a routine contact.  You've already set your boundaries when she does reach out and they're good boundaries. Keep them in the front of your mind when she does reach out.

It's funny, i have the same "fear" when the current relationship ends and or she decides that she wants to see if I've started to date by calling me at 330 am on a Saturday morning to see if I'll answer & if I'm alone. The good thing is that I'm several states away, she has two kids and showing up at my door probably isn't going to happen.  I've actually tried to keep in mind on a daily basis. Why do I love her? Does she treat me with mutual respect? Is she worthy of being MY partner in life? And to be honest the questions are getting harder to answer with a positive answer. I mean I love our alone times together, but lets face it. The sexual aspect of any relationship is only part of it. Does she make me feel good about myself? Do I enjoy being with her when there isn't sex involved?  Do I have fun with her when AND if we ever went out? Is she keeping me in the shadows not introducing me to friends or family members? Am I excited to hear from her or do I fear hearing from her? Is it happiness to hear her voice or is it a nervous anxious wondering how the conversation is going to go? And to be honest most the answers are in a negative light.  I mean she can't even send a simple text while she's on vacation to a "friend", Hey having fun with the kids and hope your day is going well.  If you care about someone you don't put them in a time out or treat them in a bad way.

I've been reading some things that might apply here for not only me, but to you and others who read this ... .

There are 7,865,467,294 people in the world in case your ex is feeling irreplaceable    SEE YA !

"NEVER take them for granted. No matter how much someone loves you, everyone has their limit of feeling unappreciated".

"Repeat this until you understand it: "I do not need people who do not need me in their life".

Find someone who want to invest in you, learn from you, see you win, support your visions and fall in love with you daily"

A relationship should not drain you ... .Don't be in a relationship if it doesn't improve your life over being single

DON'T waste your precious energy & time chasing people. Let them go to make room for those who appreciate you.

You can't change them, they can only change themselves. You can't force them, they choose their own path, You can't create a loving relationship all by yourself, they have to participate and join you.

Words of wisdom to share with you and all who need them from time to time ... .

You have to take care of yourself ... .and it sounds like you're doing a great job doing it. Come back, vent, ask questions, educate yourself ... .stay in touch ... .let us know how you're doing.  Until then, get out of the house ... .go for a walk, go to the park & enjoy the sun it won't be but a few more weeks and the sun will be below the horizon and it'll be colder, maybe snowing or raining depending where are in the world. Enjoy the small things in life, enjoy a friend's company, go out to a movie, go out for a cup of coffee, or a bite to eat BUT get out of the house and enjoy the day ... .ENJOY life!

JQ