Thoughts on open relationship

[Thread]

I am not one to be pro open relationships. But often I have in the midst of the outbursts and tantrums idealized how wonderful it would be to be in an open relationship. How lovely it was to have just been dating my h BPD because marriage with him has been quite the opposite.

Anyone else have these secrets desires?

And there is the question of why not just leave? If you want to be involved with other people?

For me I think I feel stuck in my marriage since we have a business together. I feel I enjoy it when it's good and want an escape when it's bad.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[waverider]

Open relationships are hard enough when all parties have no hang ups or issues. Throw unstable PDs into the mix and you have a recipe for disasters.

Daydreams and escapism is fine, as long as you recognize it for exactly that.

[Cat Familiar]

And there is the question of why not just leave? If you want to be involved with other people?

For me I think I feel stuck in my marriage since we have a business together. I feel I enjoy it when it's good and want an escape when it's bad.

My first BPD husband tried to have an open relationship and truly it was a disaster. We also had a business together. Divorcing was difficult, but not nearly as stressful as the years I lived with him and after I broke up with him, I never regretted it for a minute.

[Notwendy]

I hope some of the posters who have done this will reply, as they could tell you first hand how it worked, or did not.

I tend to be traditional with my own thoughts about this, and so I don't consider it. I know that this is not something I want as an experience and that it would bother me greatly. However, I don't pass judgement on others who can work this out. All relationships are personal and different.

I can discuss some of my reasons though. For one, I think even in the best of open relationships, there are feelings, and from what I have heard about them, is that these relationships require even more of the things that are lacking in a relationship with a pwBPD: the ability to handle emotions, both positive and negative, the ability to communicate openly and honestly about the relationship(s) with your partner. The ability to be sensitive to each other's feelings, honesty and transparency.

IMHO, if my one r/s is difficult because of weaknesses in these abilities, adding a situation that requires more of them would not go well.

The other one is who we attract. We attract our partners and are attracted to them because of certain qualities we possess. So for instance, if I attracted to my partner, and we have these weaknesses in our relationship, then the probability that I will attract someone with whom I am likely to have similar problems has to be high.

The common denominator to any relationship I may have with anyone is me. To change the dynamics in my relationship, and /or possibly have a relationship without these issues with anyone, the best use of my time, energy, emotions is to work on me, not escape to a similar situation. Now, some relationships are better off being ended, but in an open marriage, it isn't ended, just added to, and complicated.

I think I'm enough of a project to work on for now.     That's my 2 cents on this topic.

[Grey Kitty]

I've got some experience with open relationships and BPD. Here's my take:

First, there is pretty much one version of monogamy, and there are many many different variations of non-monogamy.

The version I tried was what would be called polyamory, where my wife and I both had long term relationships with partners besides each other. We didn't have casual hookups or do swinging.

My wife was way up on the higher functioning side of BPD... .and it still created a lot of drama regarding the other relationships, and our marriage. The other partners, while not having any clearly identified PD or mental illness, also created drama. It was quite a roller coaster ride!

I'd also add that I consider a pwBPD pretty marginal on having the skills to handle any close relationship, and adding them to this sort of mix, or adding somebody else to the existing drama isn't likely to end well!

And there is the question of why not just leave? If you want to be involved with other people?

For me I think I feel stuck in my marriage since we have a business together. I feel I enjoy it when it's good and want an escape when it's bad.

This sort of thinking isn't going to lead to a good open relationship. Not that you can't make it work... .but that you aren't likely to if this is your starting point. Find a way to escape to safety when your marriage is 'bad'--at a personal, emotional level--without running to another romantic partner. Before you think about an open relationship.

[Vindi]

i know of a few married couples who tried the "open relationship" thing... .and one of the couples it did not work for... .too much jealousy, too much of non caring emotions for other people they are having sex with, cuz that's all it is ... .sex with another person, it means nothing, but can harm and hurt a relationship with the spouse you are involved with.

I myself, my opinion... .do not see any good coming from open relationships... .why be in marriage with one person, if you want to add other people into the sexual picture... .why not just divorce or date around.

I never understood the open relationship thing... .maybe you are looking for something more that what your relationship is offering you now.

[JQ]

Hanging,

I agree with wave rider in that open relationships are difficult at best. It's hard to control jealousy for anyone & IMHO, nothing good will come from it. I know you feel you are "stuck" in your marriage because of the business you to share. YOU are not the first one to be in this position and you won't be the last. You can get the divorce and still have the business ... .if you're thinking about having a open relationship, this solution is not far from having that kind of relationship. You can get the divorce and sell your half to him, this has been done before. Worse case you can sell the business and both you go your separate ways with a 50/50 split of the business. There is always a choice, you are NEVER stuck.

There is no judgement here from anyone of us, we all have experience with someone we love who is a BPD. There are several things that are left in the blind here, your age, how long you've been married, kids, etc? But I would ask you to think back to an ex-bf who you loved and wanted to be with, but he was dating someone else. How did that make you feel? Not good I'm sure. This goes both ways for both you and him. If you are willing to do this, is your BPD willing to do this? In my experience with 2 exBPDgf, the jealous scale is a 12 on a scale of 1-10. I've had to get a Concealed Carry Permit and a 9mm because of the first one. She was over heard by a law enforcement friend of mine when another female told my exBPD that she would like to date me, she said, "If I can't have him no one will". And oh yeah she had access to a 9mm.  I went total no contact for 18 years until my mother, (who is also a BPD) gave her my phone number recently. She calls and text randomly and as late as 1 am this morning.  Open relationships and BPDs is like oil and water, it will NEVER EVER mix well. SO buyer beware. How many times have you saw on the news of a "love triangle" gone bad? jus saying.

My #2 exBPD gf, is furious over her ex-husband getting engaged in the last month and still rages about the things that happen ages ago. She's been divorced for 3 yrs now and still it's an issue. If you have issues of dealing with your BPD, then may I suggest you seek out therapy for yourself to help you find some strength and direction in your life. If you have kids they'll need it too & having an open relationship isn't good for them to experience from most points of view. Then again, staying in an unhappy marriage for the kids isn't a reason either as the kids will never know what a good example of a "Normal" loving, caring, MUTUALLY RESPECTFUL relationship is suppose to be like and will have relationship issues as they get older. I say this from experience ... .mother was a BPD and dad was absent, raging alcoholic codependent.

You might look at your relationship and see no way out right now. But if you look deep inside, you know in your heart what you feel and what needs to be done. None of us can tell you to stay or go. You have to decide for yourself, it's a hard choice no doubt. Having gone through 2 divorces, its never an easy thing. But in the end as wave rider said, I was better off for it. I was happier, I wasn't nearly as stressed out, I was able to date / see who I wanted when I wanted. To explore relationships that are healthy for me. there are studies to suggest that staying with a BPD for your life will cause it to be shorten. The constant stress, the triangulation, black/white, push / pull of the relationship will play havoc on your body, mind and soul and that will certainly not be good for your immune system ... .but you have to be the one to decide to stay or go. If you stay, there is evidence to suggest that with therapy for the BPD, a lifetime of weekly therapy sessions they can live a semi normal life ... .but THEY are the ones who have to decide to go and continue to go to therapy. My exBPD gf has been going for decades and still has a long way to go, but I see moments of clarity, moments of reason. But at the moment we are not together, she is seeing someone else who gives her a fantasy world to live in away from her day to day responsibilities and it's what she wants ... .for now. She has told me she' snot getting what she needs in the relationship from him and knows it needs to come to an end. Where will that leave me? Time will tell, if I go out on a date I will NOT advertise it.  I'm free to see anyone I want, however like anyone will tell you if I do and she is aware of it, even though we're NOT together, there will be hell to pay ... .I've broken some sort of trust with her. It doesn't make sense but then again, not a lot makes sense with someone who has BPD because they are emotionally stunted, they have a 3 year old reason capacity that never ends well when you are trying to have an adult conversation as I'm sure you've experienced.

On another note, I told my current BPD exgf that I wasn't going to be any part of a 3 way / triangulation relationship. I carried the casket of one of my female friends who had a bf who had extra gfs and ended up giving her AIDS. It finally took her, but not after a long and heroic battle ... .she certainly didn't deserve it. Even if you don't get AIDS, there is any number of STDs, or UTIs that will & can give you issues for the rest of your life ... .it's a risk.

So, the choice is yours to make. The group can only give you examples, some guidance from personal experience, but in the end you are the one that has to make the choice to stay or go, to stay monogamous or have an open relationship. You'll find no judgement here.

Stay safe, I wish you peace and strength on the quest your on ... .

JQ

[DearBFF]

I am personally polyamorous, although I've never been in a relationship outside of my marriage.  My husband is monogamous.  This generally throws people for a gigantic loop, , as they think monogamy means exclusivity for both partners; however I disagree with that for a few reasons.  The actual definition of monogamy in most cases just states one partner, it doesn't generally define that one partner as also having one partner; thereby only 2 people in the relationship.  However, I completely understand that every single person on the planet has their very own definition and that is fine with me, as I believe we all have the right to our own thoughts, feelings, and opinions.

For me I find relationship style as individual as sexual orientation.  I mights should also mention that I am pansexual (for those who do not know bisexual is someone sexually attracted to men and women while pansexual is those who can be attracted to someone of any gender, male/female/anywhere in between).  Again, my husband is heterosexual.  Now oddly enough this part never gives people issue... .people understand that just because my husband is heterosexual and sleeps with me that doesn't make me heterosexual, and that while I am pansexual and sleep with him that doesn't make him pansexual.  This is because we individually want what we want and it doesn't have to be the same thing.  I believe the same about relationship styles... .I am open to different relationship styles, my husband is only interested in monogamy because he says one of me is more than enough, .  For him he's known since the beginning that I am not heterosexual and will never be, also that I had interest outside of only men and always will.  He has always loved and accepted me as such, but I never go looking for partners because I feel like I am content and I don't necessarily need to find partners to bed.  I am much more a romantic and sensual being than sexual so I would love more close friends to connect with over shared interests and conversation, and I would love for those relationships to be longterm and contain much physical affection and intimacy (not necessarily sex).

When I first met bff, she actually fit quite nicely into our family, but the more BPD came out the less and less hubby liked her.  He respects my love for her even though he hates the way she treats me he would never put his foot down and forbid me from seeing/speaking to her.  I thought perhaps she could be a good close friend that would last a very long time, and would bring joy to our family and honestly sometimes she does, but she can also sometimes drive us quite mad (and I mean that in the most loving way possible).  It took me sorting myself to be able to handle our relationship in a way that it isn't damaging to my home life.  This doesn't mean I don't speak to hubby about her, as I do, even once when I had some codependent issues and was overly attached hubby said he didn't want to hear anymore about her.  He was just frustrated about her behavior at the time and later apologized after I pointed out he's my person, he's who I talk to about everything in my life.  Now we talk about her, but I can tell when he's had enough.  I ask him for advice and he gives it, but I know truly deep down he does not like her behavior (neither do I, nor does she for that matter).  I have other friends I lean on too, but I know hubby is always there for me no matter what.  I also know that because of my love for her he will always give her another chance time and time again, for me.  Just a few weeks back on my birthday we spent the day together as a family and then we went over to bff's house, he watched the munchkins so she and I could go out a few hours alone to have some time to ourselves.  It was really great and makes me so joyful to have found a man who truly loves all of me, he's amazingly wonderful; even though I forget sometimes!  Honestly, she was a great reminder at times, when we'd hang out altogether telling me she could see in the way he looked at me how much he loved me, and how lucky I was that my daughter had such a wonderful father.  We are only human and sometimes we forget how lucky we truly are for the wonderful people in our lives.

So here's the thing I have no experience as someone who has been married yet had a girlfriend/boyfriend with BPD or otherwise, but I love differently than most people.  For me I personally hate the phrase "fallen in love" because it means that you could fall out, and I truthfully don't.  When I love it is forever, and I know that some of you may think that's a joke, but I mean it.  I still have love in my heart for my 2 bff's from high school, one guy and one girl.  I had a love in college, a girl who I was close to even as hubby and I were first starting to date (he knew all about her by the way).  This girl always told me she didn't feel she was gay and did not want to end up with a woman, and when she was afraid I didn't believe her (I always take people at their word in these matters) she said she thought I wanted too much and booted me from her life.  Over 3 years ago I reached out and sent her a message on facebook.  She was genuinely happy to hear from me and immediately apologized for losing touch and hurting my feelings.  I have again reiterated that I understand her position on my feelings for her, but I have expressed that the way I love they never go away and that is fine with me as long as it is fine with her.  Not long after we reconnected she sent me an invitation to her wedding, I was so thrilled to go I booked the hotel immediately and hubby, munchkin and I all made the trip.  I got to share one of her happiest days and I am so glad... .in polyamory there is a term compersion, usually described as the opposite of jealously, basically it's that warm fuzzy feeling you have when something good happens to someone you love.  That's what I felt all day that day as I truly couldn't be happier for her!  I met her now husband, and she met my munchkin and hubby.  We hugged and then stood there holding hands as we always had, just gabbing away, it was lovely; we just went right back to being us.  :-)  I know most people could never understand that, or would be crazy jealous that someone they love is marrying someone else, or that it's weird hubby is totally fine with it but it just works.  He knows all about her, all about everyone I have ever loved, and still love.

When I spend time with someone I love other than him and then I return to him, he gets a happier, more vibrant wife.  My daughter gets a less stressed out, more fun mom.  Our family is greater for my time fulfilling parts of me that I don't truly think one person can fill.  For me I know my heart is too big for one person, and it would be unfair of someone to ask that of me.  To be honest I tried... .growing up and in the first few years of hubby and it made me, hell it made us miserable.  It was not who I was, and there is no way I can live like that with a closed heart and be happy.  It has to be open so I can share joy, love, and connections with everyone I meet.  That is how I am truly happy, that is how I can be my best self and that is how I can show my daughter that it's ok to be who you are.  Sure she could be straight and as traditional as they come and only want to marry a man, and be 100% monogamous and want him to be too!  And you know what, that's great, if that's what she wants because I can love her for who she is just like my hubby loves me for who I am, all of me.   

My honest thoughts are that if there as a strong open relationship, poly or otherwise, and they both felt love for someone who had BPD then they would be stronger for it.  When things got tough they would have another who gets it, they would have another to lean on.  The BPD would have 2 sets of shoulders to cry on and 2 sets of ears to listen.  When the time came for problem solving 3 heads are much better than 1, or 2 for that matter.  If the BPD had children, having some stable parental figures that could step in and pick up the slack would work wonders for the child!  As with any relationship with a BPD however, it can go both ways.  If the person with BPD knows about their diagnosis, accepts it, and is willing to work towards learning and implementing behaviors that will work better for them in the long run a poly relationship could be a wonderful support system for them while they do so.  If however, they do not know their diagnosis, do not want to know, and are in denial that their behavior causes harm to those around them they will do damage to ANY relationship, friendship, romance, parenting, etc.  They will most likely try pitting the partners against one another, or the single partner against outsiders (like their friends or own family), parents against kids, etc.  Frankly, it would almost give them more pawns to play with so to speak, while I know they don't do it on purpose it can look like that sometimes.

Hanging, try to find a good group of friends, volunteer work, or a favorite local hang out (those with late hours would probably work best).  It could be friends who have dinner/movie nights (to chat and find understanding), or volunteering with animals/kids (to destress), or a coffee bar/bookshop (to escape into a good book and let your head have a rest).  I'll bet you and everyone else has probably never thought about it this way but how you feel that you want to escape when it's bad... .did it ever occur to you that's EXACTLY how they feel?  They are overwhelmed by emotion, they feel like they're drowning and they just want to GET OUT!  For some that's the silent treatment, for some it's booting us from their life, for others it's the extreme with suicide.  That feeling though, next time you have it pay really close attention it, now multiply it by 10x, or 100x, and imagine that's how they feel; not just in bad times, but for most all the time.  Life can be wonderful and has wonderful feelings to go with it, but when you can't handle them and they all come rushing at you at once, just imagine what it must feel like.  Good luck, Hanging and I hope you find something to fulfill your need to escape.  I get it, I truly do... .  I think we all do!

[Thread]

After thinking about this more in dept and reading these comments what was I thinking?

He can't handle a normal relationship, He definitely wouldn't be able to handle a complex one .

I clearly am just day dreaming as an outlet that entertains my mind when things are bad!

Thanks for letting me see these feelings for the reality of what they are.

[Thread]

Dear BFF

Thank you for sharing. Yes I have thought of those outlets and am working on boundaries with my hBPD. It's been a rough battle to do things alone as he has no close friends I become his everything and it's been hard for me to go do stuff alone without the backlash when I return home or like you said the tantrums or silent treatments.

Since his new therapist the last three weeks have been good. I have been making efforts to go out with friends alone, but again there are always some sort of consequence. However it has been better with the new therapist who is borderline educated and trained.

I have been in therapy since we first started dated. Like many of you have probably experienced I thought everything was my fault. It wasn't until my therapist who is trained with BPD who brought the disorder to my attention. - I didn't know what it was. But all the lights turned on.

We've been together for 5 years married for 4 separated for 1 year. (When we separated I don't know what BPD was until he returned and was diagnosed by my therapist and recently a month ago by the one he currently sees).

I just don't know if I can handle another extreme outburst. I'm just very tired. And no, no kids, I use birth control and we use condoms on top of that... .There is no way I want to bring a child into this world while he is still in denial. And his whole family blames me for the episodes and suicide threats. My business and my husband are all the stress I can handle. I can't juggle a child on top of that. Also I may have issues getting pregnant with a couple of things that make for infertility endometriosis and poly cystic ovarian syndrome.

[thisagain]

He can't handle a normal relationship, He definitely wouldn't be able to handle a complex one .

Yup, exactly. I totally understand wanting to go have an actual healthy relationship, that would meet some needs that your H probably can't. But I think the open relationship would really just multiply the drama.

My partner suggested this a while back and I was so desperate not to lose her that I looked into how people make it work... .and found that it's crucial to communicate openly, respect the primary partner's wishes re: the nature and scope of the other relationships, and not do anything that hurts the primary partner's feelings. I think it really sunk in when I read that if you're having a rough time in the relationship and one partner feels insecure, you should consider closing the relationship for a while until things are better. That would NEVER happen with my partner and probably not with any pwBPD.

My partner's fear of enmeshment can manifest in something that looks like terrible-twos defiance. Like the child who, after you tell them not to do something, stares you down smirking while they do it. She also gets really dysregulated whenever she thinks anyone is taking away something that she wants/needs. So there's no way she would respect my feelings and change her behavior if I say "hey I'm feeling insecure, can it be just us for a while" or "I really don't like how attached you're getting to Joe, can you please stop seeing him." She wouldn't even do that with a "friendship" when she was having an emotional affair.

She also went from "hey I was thinking of sometime having a threesome if you're okay with it maybe" to "I'M NOT MONOGAMOUS I NEED TO BE WITH OTHER PEOPLE" in the span of a couple hours, just because I told her I didn't want her to do it. Me telling her that it would really hurt me and might ruin our relationship basically just made her want to do it 100 times more. Which is why I think the whole thing was really just an attempt to sabotage our relationship, because she changed her mind about it the next day once she was calmer.

[Thread]

My partner's fear of enmeshment can manifest in something that looks like terrible-twos defiance. Like the child who, after you tell them not to do something, stares you down smirking while they do it. She also gets really dysregulated whenever she thinks anyone is taking away something that she wants/needs.

This sounds very very familiar   

[DearBFF]

Hanging, so very sorry to hear about all of the issues and stress you are facing!  It is so great that both you and your husband have therapists so you can each have someone to hear you out.  How long has your husband been in therapy may I ask?  You mentioned 3 weeks with this therapist, but has he seen others before?  I am just curious since I'm going through some stuff with BFF and I keep learning how many people later diagnosed BPD are in therapy yet are misdiagnosed or receive no diagnosis until much later, even after suicide attempts and self harm.

Even if your husband is not accepting of the diagnosis to the point that he's seen the light, there is definitely hope that he has heard it and perhaps his mind will come around to it in time.  Glad to hear you have a support system of friends!  You mentioned that your husband's family believe his episodes are your fault, that is just awful to hear.  It is similar with me at times with mutual friends BFF and I share, plus the place I volunteered and she worked I was told by one woman that everyone thinks I'm the "crazy" one (although I don't like that word).  She told me everyone believed all of the issues to be due to me, and only one volunteer really knew the entire truth and she understands because her exgf was undiagnosed bipolar/BPD.

I can't even imagine juggling children and a BPD spouse as you mentioned, when you have trouble just trying to meet your own needs and keep your head straight.  I watch BFF's 3 year old struggle with her mother's behavior and it saddens me to watch her drag her daughter from man to man, she gets attached and then BFF is upset when they break up and her daughter asks where the man (now one of her new best friends) went.  It's hard enough for me just trying to be sure that I don't let it harm my daughter too much in the process of just trying to be there and allow my daughter to see her best friend.  I truly believe in the long run BFF will turn out to be a great aunt for my munchkin, I just have to limit the damage in the short term while she is up and down.  I let them enjoy one another when BFF is in a good mood and the girls play together, and I see how much BFF and my daughter love one another goofing off together.  It's one of the reasons I'm still here, I'm not the only one who loves her.

Take care and keep doing what you're doing taking care of yourself.

*fingers crossed* it gets better sooner than later