Idealization vs seeing them for what they are

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

So hey guys, its been about 7 months since last contact with my dBPDex. She was diagnosed 1 year in, put on meds at 2 years. The final year was spent planning on how to leave and I did.

Since the breakup I've been assigning attributes in my mind to her, putting her on a pedestal in my mind so to speak, that because she found a guy soon after I broke it off that she must be somehow better than me(?) or that I did something wrong.

She talked of having a kid even when she told me she thought I would leave which was weird. Attempted entrapment? She's got one coming up in a few months now with this new guy. She got knocked up a month in.

So the thoughts operate on a basis of... .they're better off, because they found each other and can help each other be better people, obviously! But isn't this projection on my part? Like, taking traits I possess and labeling the others with them? Meditation helps me to step outside the thought loops but these thoughts present a sort of puzzle I want to solve so badly.

But given that she was diagnosed, admitted to having horrible thoughts and symptoms her whole life, the nature of the quick rebound and her impulse to have more children, I mean it seems everything points to illness, and that I'm not just an idiot or crazy for leaving.

I've posted a lot, gone back and forth, doubted my perceptions but this seems to be the final battle within, convincing myself she's somehow found the means to complete her life. I feel like a broken record on these boards but I suppose I'm just looking for something that points with certainty toward it being just more bs from the disordered behavior. It seems to run in her family anyway, they sweep things under the rug like emotional/verbal abuse toward the younger people in their family, childish emotions, etc. It was just shocking when the new guy was the guy I knew as being pretty level-headed and smart jumping in, makes me think that her behavior is just her being unique and different and that they understand each other well enough to make it work.

[disorderedsociety]

So hey guys, its been about 7 months since last contact with my dBPDex. She was diagnosed 1 year in, put on meds at 2 years. The final year was spent planning on how to leave and I did.

Since the breakup I've been assigning attributes in my mind to her, putting her on a pedestal in my mind so to speak, that because she found a guy soon after I broke it off that she must be somehow better than me(?) or that I did something wrong.

She talked of having a kid even when she told me she thought I would leave which was weird. Attempted entrapment? She's got one coming up in a few months now with this new guy. She got knocked up a month in.

So the thoughts operate on a basis of... .they're better off, because they found each other and can help each other be better people, obviously! But isn't this projection on my part? Like, taking traits I possess and labeling the others with them? Meditation helps me to step outside the thought loops but these thoughts present a sort of puzzle I want to solve so badly.

But given that she was diagnosed, admitted to having horrible thoughts and symptoms her whole life, the nature of the quick rebound and her impulse to have more children, I mean it seems everything points to illness, and that I'm not just an idiot or crazy for leaving.

I've posted a lot, gone back and forth, doubted my perceptions but this seems to be the final battle within, convincing myself she's somehow found the means to complete her life. I feel like a broken record on these boards but I suppose I'm just looking for something that points with certainty toward it being just more bs from the disordered behavior. It seems to run in her family anyway, they sweep things under the rug like emotional/verbal abuse toward the younger people in their family, childish emotions, etc. It was just shocking when the new guy was the guy I knew as being pretty level-headed and smart jumping in, makes me think that her behavior is just her being unique and different and that they understand each other well enough to make it work.

[jammo1989]

Hey Disordered, haven't posted on here in months, but noticed an exact resemblance to my experience in your post, I'm past the obsessions thoughts now so I hope I can help you get to that point to.

I can relate to everything you said in your post because like just like you I refused a baby, then 2 months later she's pregnant with my replacement.  I can give you potential reasons for this if it helps you to understand more, these are as follows:

Cluster Bs in general behave like children, but the illusion is that they are in adult bodies, and as a child they most probably had to learn survival instincts in order to protect themselves from their troubled childhoods.  If you were the provider and your ex wasn't working then a baby gives her the added security of not needing to work because you now must support the both of them.  Furthermore, the baby is also an extra source of Narc supply and what's so special about this is that the baby won't ever judge or abandon her, so in a way it soothes her emotions.  The problem is that, she is a survivor so she will take what she needs in order to feel safe, money, home etc.  She had the child in order to feel that emotional connection with the baby during pregnancy, I very much doubt she did it out of love from her partner, she's just like a child, *I want this so give me it!* as you ruminate about the what ifs let's be honest here.  Just imagine you did have that baby with her, then a few months in you find out she's cheating on you, you break up, there's now a baby without a father that can easily stay in the picture, and you are now paying her child support knowing full well she's moved on already and she's still not working.  That is why everyone says to you * you dodged a bullet* it would have got a lot worse if you had other commitments towards her.  I know you can't see it now but just think about it. 

Furthermore, in my experience a Cluster B needs to be in control so when you said no to the baby, she tried different things in order to take back control of the situation, mine faked pregnancy and an Abortion, told me I killed the baby I never wanted, it was all one big lie.  Also, another thing through my experience is that Cluster Bs can't handle people who they perceive as better than them, they tend to want a person that can complete them.  For example, my ex once turned around to me a month before she dumped me saying * I feel like a piece of ___ next to you* and this goes back to the control thing.  I could write pages out for you, but at the end of the day Cluster B or not she did  no thave the right personality that suited you, she was a liar, a manipulator a cheat(maybe) and you were the nice guy with morals and from a healthy background.

[soar]

Yes my ex pinned everything on me, it was awful.

"Maybe we could of got back together in a few months if we missed eachother but you've made sure that's not a possibility anymore".

Half way through our relationship I started to realise that my ex was continually blaming me for everything. I sat down with her one night and said "can you stop blaming me?"

I can't remember exactly what she said but it was basically "no i can't"

Even then I said to her that I feared for the relationship.

[soar]

Sorry, wrong thread!

[BlackandBlue]

What's with them and having kids? This seems to come up in conversation a lot around her. My ex and I talked about having kids when the time was right, but then she suddenly wanted one when it was totally not the right time. She was still in college and I was working a dead end job just scraping by with the bills. I told her it wasn't the right time and she took it as I didn't want kids at all with her and it pretty much ended the relationship... .makes no sense

[once removed]

hey disorderedsociety 

"but this seems to be the final battle within, convincing myself she's somehow found the means to complete her life. I feel like a broken record on these boards but I suppose I'm just looking for something that points with certainty toward it being just more bs from the disordered behavior."

i suggest doing the opposite, which i know is easier said than done. this is a fear. the fear that it was you. the truth is that it was both of you. the truth is you dont and cant know how she or her relationship will fare, and the truth is her results have absolutely no bearing on you or the relationship you had.

face the fear. we are here to help you do so. it will give you the peace you seek. it may help you to actively try wishing her well. it may be too early in your process for you to do this, and if so, thats understandable. youll get there. when you do, the diagnosis, the disorder, her behavior, will no longer matter.

hang in there.

[disorderedsociety]

Hey Disordered, haven't posted on here in months, but noticed an exact resemblance to my experience in your post, I'm past the obsessions thoughts now so I hope I can help you get to that point to.

I can relate to everything you said in your post because like just like you I refused a baby, then 2 months later she's pregnant with my replacement.  I can give you potential reasons for this if it helps you to understand more, these are as follows:

Cluster Bs in general behave like children, but the illusion is that they are in adult bodies, and as a child they most probably had to learn survival instincts in order to protect themselves from their troubled childhoods.  If you were the provider and your ex wasn't working then a baby gives her the added security of not needing to work because you now must support the both of them.  Furthermore, the baby is also an extra source of Narc supply and what's so special about this is that the baby won't ever judge or abandon her, so in a way it soothes her emotions.  The problem is that, she is a survivor so she will take what she needs in order to feel safe, money, home etc.  She had the child in order to feel that emotional connection with the baby during pregnancy, I very much doubt she did it out of love from her partner, she's just like a child, *I want this so give me it!* as you ruminate about the what ifs let's be honest here.  Just imagine you did have that baby with her, then a few months in you find out she's cheating on you, you break up, there's now a baby without a father that can easily stay in the picture, and you are now paying her child support knowing full well she's moved on already and she's still not working.  That is why everyone says to you * you dodged a bullet* it would have got a lot worse if you had other commitments towards her.  I know you can't see it now but just think about it. 

Furthermore, in my experience a Cluster B needs to be in control so when you said no to the baby, she tried different things in order to take back control of the situation, mine faked pregnancy and an Abortion, told me I killed the baby I never wanted, it was all one big lie.  Also, another thing through my experience is that Cluster Bs can't handle people who they perceive as better than them, they tend to want a person that can complete them.  For example, my ex once turned around to me a month before she dumped me saying * I feel like a piece of next to you* and this goes back to the control thing.  I could write pages out for you, but at the end of the day Cluster B or not she did  no thave the right personality that suited you, she was a liar, a manipulator a cheat(maybe) and you were the nice guy with morals and from a healthy background.

The strangest and maybe the most obviously wrong thing about it was she had like 2 abortions around age 20-21 and said she "couldn't do it again" so she had this one but the guy who was the father dipped out when he heard the news. She knew I liked children when we got together so I think that was a major manipulation tool, I'm not completely sure.

She commented about the new guy before they got together that he seemed passive, now that makes for an easier target yeah?

What bothers me is she would say things like, you're too good to/for me, why do you stay? And later would say things like, oh I think we're on the same level pretty much as far as attractiveness(?) She wasn't the prettiest I've dated, I've had much hotter girls interested in me.

Still despite the similarities I find myself saying that he's gonna know how to nurture her right, or be better than me in bed enough that she'll do anything for him, but given her past I'd say she simply wants the security of having a child. She hated working and now gets SSI and will get like $300 more a month with the second kid, so what incentive would she have to work? Her mom pays for everything and gets to feel like she's a better parent since she raises the first one pretty much.

I wish there was a way to tell what was manipulation and what was real. Was any of it real? She was even talking to other guys online before I left.

[disorderedsociety]

hey disorderedsociety 

"but this seems to be the final battle within, convincing myself she's somehow found the means to complete her life. I feel like a broken record on these boards but I suppose I'm just looking for something that points with certainty toward it being just more bs from the disordered behavior."

i suggest doing the opposite, which i know is easier said than done. this is a fear. the fear that it was you. the truth is that it was both of you. the truth is you dont and cant know how she or her relationship will fare, and the truth is her results have absolutely no bearing on you or the relationship you had.

face the fear. we are here to help you do so. it will give you the peace you seek. it may help you to actively try wishing her well. it may be too early in your process for you to do this, and if so, thats understandable. youll get there. when you do, the diagnosis, the disorder, her behavior, will no longer matter.

hang in there.

It's becoming more clear to me what my errors were, but again that points toward the line of thought that if I'd been more mature or balanced I could've made it work. So then I start thinking he must just be better than me in those ways if he (a pretty smart guy from what I could tell) has decided to have a kid with her.

[once removed]

i can understand that. in my opinion, its an incomplete thought.

if youd been a more balanced and mature person perhaps you wouldnt have entered into the relationship. perhaps youd have left sooner. perhaps it would have lasted longer. perhaps you would have been painted black and shed have left. theres a lot of what ifs. ive said this before, but this was a dysfunctional relationship, that, for what sound like good reasons, you chose to leave. the impulsive pregnancy is traumatic for you, and quite understandably causes a lot of doubt. if youd chosen to have a child despite the doubts you had (you planned to leave for a year) im not sure that would be balanced.

if she had left and impulsively gotten pregnant, wouldnt that leave you in a similar place? the new relationship will be different in certain ways, as it involves two different people coming from different places. my replacement is a nice guy and he lasted longer than me (it still ended). the disorder did not evaporate, he wasnt "better" than me, the relationship was simply different than mine. that has no bearing on me or my relationship.

[disorderedsociety]

i can understand that. in my opinion, its an incomplete thought.

if youd been a more balanced and mature person perhaps you wouldnt have entered into the relationship. perhaps youd have left sooner. perhaps it would have lasted longer. perhaps you would have been painted black and shed have left. theres a lot of what ifs. ive said this before, but this was a dysfunctional relationship, that, for what sound like good reasons, you chose to leave. the impulsive pregnancy is traumatic for you, and quite understandably causes a lot of doubt. if youd chosen to have a child despite the doubts you had (you planned to leave for a year) im not sure that would be balanced.

if she had left and impulsively gotten pregnant, wouldnt that leave you in a similar place? the new relationship will be different in certain ways, as it involves two different people coming from different places. my replacement is a nice guy and he lasted longer than me (it still ended). the disorder did not evaporate, he wasnt "better" than me, the relationship was simply different than mine. that has no bearing on me or my relationship.

If I'd not taken the initial abuse during the first few months shed have painted me black, but I figured it was stress from her last r/s which was abusive on both sides so I forave her. She had a way of making her behaviors sound perfectly rational so I went along with it. I knew it was not a healthy relationship from the start but my ambivalence kept me in. Eventually I said if I love her and love me, the right thing to do is leave this mess. And I know I should hope the best for her if I cared for her at all, and sometimes I do. But I also vacillate between that and fantasies of her dropping by to cheat on him so I can take revenge on him so does that make me crazy? A little.

It's been 7 months, I figured I would be well past it. I don't constantly hurt and yearn for her since its been a while but still I feel contempt for their relationship.

I understand the part about them coming from different angles. That's what gets me. I feel like he's reaping all the work I put in. Then again, how can you be in love with someone, let alone have a kid with someone you've known for a month? It just doesn't make sense. And now the parenting role has grown on me since, and I can't help thinking I should settle down at 23 which, yeah a kid would make me strive to be a better person but I know I can't really trust my emotions.

[jammo1989]

Hey Disordered, haven't posted on here in months, but noticed an exact resemblance to my experience in your post, I'm past the obsessions thoughts now so I hope I can help you get to that point to.

I can relate to everything you said in your post because like just like you I refused a baby, then 2 months later she's pregnant with my replacement.  I can give you potential reasons for this if it helps you to understand more, these are as follows:

Cluster Bs in general behave like children, but the illusion is that they are in adult bodies, and as a child they most probably had to learn survival instincts in order to protect themselves from their troubled childhoods.  If you were the provider and your ex wasn't working then a baby gives her the added security of not needing to work because you now must support the both of them.  Furthermore, the baby is also an extra source of Narc supply and what's so special about this is that the baby won't ever judge or abandon her, so in a way it soothes her emotions.  The problem is that, she is a survivor so she will take what she needs in order to feel safe, money, home etc.  She had the child in order to feel that emotional connection with the baby during pregnancy, I very much doubt she did it out of love from her partner, she's just like a child, *I want this so give me it!* as you ruminate about the what ifs let's be honest here.  Just imagine you did have that baby with her, then a few months in you find out she's cheating on you, you break up, there's now a baby without a father that can easily stay in the picture, and you are now paying her child support knowing full well she's moved on already and she's still not working.  That is why everyone says to you * you dodged a bullet* it would have got a lot worse if you had other commitments towards her.  I know you can't see it now but just think about it. 

Furthermore, in my experience a Cluster B needs to be in control so when you said no to the baby, she tried different things in order to take back control of the situation, mine faked pregnancy and an Abortion, told me I killed the baby I never wanted, it was all one big lie.  Also, another thing through my experience is that Cluster Bs can't handle people who they perceive as better than them, they tend to want a person that can complete them.  For example, my ex once turned around to me a month before she dumped me saying * I feel like a piece of next to you* and this goes back to the control thing.  I could write pages out for you, but at the end of the day Cluster B or not she did  no thave the right personality that suited you, she was a liar, a manipulator a cheat(maybe) and you were the nice guy with morals and from a healthy background.

The strangest and maybe the most obviously wrong thing about it was she had like 2 abortions around age 20-21 and said she "couldn't do it again" so she had this one but the guy who was the father dipped out when he heard the news. She knew I liked children when we got together so I think that was a major manipulation tool, I'm not completely sure.

She commented about the new guy before they got together that he seemed passive, now that makes for an easier target yeah?

What bothers me is she would say things like, you're too good to/for me, why do you stay? And later would say things like, oh I think we're on the same level pretty much as far as attractiveness(?) She wasn't the prettiest I've dated, I've had much hotter girls interested in me.

Still despite the similarities I find myself saying that he's gonna know how to nurture her right, or be better than me in bed enough that she'll do anything for him, but given her past I'd say she simply wants the security of having a child. She hated working and now gets SSI and will get like $300 more a month with the second kid, so what incentive would she have to work? Her mom pays for everything and gets to feel like she's a better parent since she raises the first one pretty much.

I wish there was a way to tell what was manipulation and what was real. Was any of it real? She was even talking to other guys online before I left.

The reason why she left you after saying no to the baby was probably the same reason why mine did.  Bpd/HPDs cant trust people because they have been hurt/abandoned in the past, so they will test us, they will say/do things in order to see how we respond, and they do this to see whether or not we care or not.  So when you said no, just like I did, she was probably thinking I knew I couldn't trust him, this then certifies in her head that she was right about not trusting people and thats why she left "Hes going to abandon me" her sense of security was taken off guard and she probably couldn't handle the thought, and thats why she did what she did.

Or... .like my ex used to say my biological clock is ticking and I cant stop thinking about babies, I crave them and every time I see my friends baby's I cry, I cry because the urge is to strong, this was her 3rd child, and even if what she said was true, just like you she left and got pregnant within 2 months, what does that say about her love for you? they don't love like a NON their love is based on a NEED, because like I said before they are survivors.  So to all the people that say, why is he/she so happy with my replacement, why are they getting married, having children? Its solely because her needs are being met, but who in their logical state of mind would have a child with someone within 1-2 months? a stupid person who is desperate to be accepted thats who.  Her needs are being met, but those needs arent being met in middle (50/50) he is doing things for her because he loves her, what is he getting back? you told me she doesn't work, so why should the other person go out and work if the girl isn't committed or willing to work a few hours a week, its not about the money, its the fact that she is willing to do her bit as well, and when she fails to accept the need to work to make her own money, instead of spending yours/his then what good is she? the cut off point is when they have a NEED and you dont fulfill it because at this point you have caught onto her take, take,take behavior, where as, the new guy is fulfilling all these needs, because he either a nice guy or a door mat that cant speak up for himself, either way, the baby wasn't based on love between two people (parents) its about the NEED she has to conceive and thats literally it, you said no (saw sense, was logical) she took it as rejection (cluster Bs HATE rejection) and this led to her probably thinking " If ... .doesnt want me ... .will! This is a forum for NONs so im not going to trigger anyone by saying this, but thry really are a waste of time especially in a relationship setting, if they cant even have a stable relationship with their parents, what makes you think she can have a relationship in general?               

[disorderedsociety]

The reason why she left you after saying no to the baby was probably the same reason why mine did.  Bpd/HPDs cant trust people because they have been hurt/abandoned in the past, so they will test us, they will say/do things in order to see how we respond, and they do this to see whether or not we care or not.  So when you said no, just like I did, she was probably thinking I knew I couldn't trust him, this then certifies in her head that she was right about not trusting people and thats why she left "Hes going to abandon me" her sense of security was taken off guard and she probably couldn't handle the thought, and thats why she did what she did.

Or... .like my ex used to say my biological clock is ticking and I cant stop thinking about babies, I crave them and every time I see my friends baby's I cry, I cry because the urge is to strong, this was her 3rd child, and even if what she said was true, just like you she left and got pregnant within 2 months, what does that say about her love for you? they don't love like a NON their love is based on a NEED, because like I said before they are survivors.  So to all the people that say, why is he/she so happy with my replacement, why are they getting married, having children? Its solely because her needs are being met, but who in their logical state of mind would have a child with someone within 1-2 months? a stupid person who is desperate to be accepted thats who.  Her needs are being met, but those needs arent being met in middle (50/50) he is doing things for her because he loves her, what is he getting back? you told me she doesn't work, so why should the other person go out and work if the girl isn't committed or willing to work a few hours a week, its not about the money, its the fact that she is willing to do her bit as well, and when she fails to accept the need to work to make her own money, instead of spending yours/his then what good is she? the cut off point is when they have a NEED and you dont fulfill it because at this point you have caught onto her take, take,take behavior, where as, the new guy is fulfilling all these needs, because he either a nice guy or a door mat that cant speak up for himself, either way, the baby wasn't based on love between two people (parents) its about the NEED she has to conceive and thats literally it, you said no (saw sense, was logical) she took it as rejection (cluster Bs HATE rejection) and this led to her probably thinking " If ... .doesnt want me ... .will! This is a forum for NONs so im not going to trigger anyone by saying this, but thry really are a waste of time especially in a relationship setting, if they cant even have a stable relationship with their parents, what makes you think she can have a relationship in general?              

Funny, her relationship with her mom was always turbulent, and her mom was sort of a b***h sometimes sure but who wouldn't be if their 25 year old daughter lived at home pulling SSI and had a history of not being responsible for anything? Lol

I like the point about the -needs- they aren't really anything besides that. Even talks of how "I'd love to get a house in the woods away from everyone" is likely a need for isolation. It sounded romantic but there were so many similar things... ."I hate people, I don't wanna go outside"

The last thing she said before I felt she was latching onto him was "I just wish you wanted me." I tried to explain that its more complicated than that, "I do want you but etc" and her response was just, "ok"

Its sad because she's not the type to -want- to intentionally hurt someone, in fact quite the opposite and I admired that about her but unfortunately when it comes to any kind of intimate connection with another human being she doesn't know how to process things. Its like trying to run a modern program on an old Commodore.

[jammo1989]

The reason why she left you after saying no to the baby was probably the same reason why mine did.  Bpd/HPDs cant trust people because they have been hurt/abandoned in the past, so they will test us, they will say/do things in order to see how we respond, and they do this to see whether or not we care or not.  So when you said no, just like I did, she was probably thinking I knew I couldn't trust him, this then certifies in her head that she was right about not trusting people and thats why she left "Hes going to abandon me" her sense of security was taken off guard and she probably couldn't handle the thought, and thats why she did what she did.

Or... .like my ex used to say my biological clock is ticking and I cant stop thinking about babies, I crave them and every time I see my friends baby's I cry, I cry because the urge is to strong, this was her 3rd child, and even if what she said was true, just like you she left and got pregnant within 2 months, what does that say about her love for you? they don't love like a NON their love is based on a NEED, because like I said before they are survivors.  So to all the people that say, why is he/she so happy with my replacement, why are they getting married, having children? Its solely because her needs are being met, but who in their logical state of mind would have a child with someone within 1-2 months? a stupid person who is desperate to be accepted thats who.  Her needs are being met, but those needs arent being met in middle (50/50) he is doing things for her because he loves her, what is he getting back? you told me she doesn't work, so why should the other person go out and work if the girl isn't committed or willing to work a few hours a week, its not about the money, its the fact that she is willing to do her bit as well, and when she fails to accept the need to work to make her own money, instead of spending yours/his then what good is she? the cut off point is when they have a NEED and you dont fulfill it because at this point you have caught onto her take, take,take behavior, where as, the new guy is fulfilling all these needs, because he either a nice guy or a door mat that cant speak up for himself, either way, the baby wasn't based on love between two people (parents) its about the NEED she has to conceive and thats literally it, you said no (saw sense, was logical) she took it as rejection (cluster Bs HATE rejection) and this led to her probably thinking " If ... .doesnt want me ... .will! This is a forum for NONs so im not going to trigger anyone by saying this, but thry really are a waste of time especially in a relationship setting, if they cant even have a stable relationship with their parents, what makes you think she can have a relationship in general?              

Funny, her relationship with her mom was always turbulent, and her mom was sort of a b***h sometimes sure but who wouldn't be if their 25 year old daughter lived at home pulling SSI and had a history of not being responsible for anything? Lol

I like the point about the -needs- they aren't really anything besides that. Even talks of how "I'd love to get a house in the woods away from everyone" is likely a need for isolation. It sounded romantic but there were so many similar things... ."I hate people, I don't wanna go outside"

The last thing she said before I felt she was latching onto him was "I just wish you wanted me." I tried to explain that its more complicated than that, "I do want you but etc" and her response was just, "ok"

Its sad because she's not the type to -want- to intentionally hurt someone, in fact quite the opposite and I admired that about her but unfortunately when it comes to any kind of intimate connection with another human being she doesn't know how to process things. Its like trying to run a modern program on an old Commodore.

Think and look very closely to what you told me in your first paragraph, "who wouldn't be if their 25 year old daughter lived at home pulling SSI and had a history of not being responsible for anything?" do you REALLY want to be with someone like that? just imagine bringing an innocent child into the picture, would his/her mother be a good role model for that child? You also said she would love to get a house in the woods, how is she going to attain that without money? the point is she sees the end product without seeing the middle one.  For example I want this/that but she doesn't think I have to work, have excess amount of money to achieve this, so what does she do, make you pay for things without ever understanding that in order to have nice things you need to work in order to have the money in place.     

[disorderedsociety]

Yeah or be at least loving enough to give me incentive to WANT to do those things. I guess not knowing a better template made me feel like it was normal for her to walk all over my boundaries. I told her, cause I thought the kid was mine at first cause of timing, I'm gonna leave if she's not mine, hands down. The look on her face was dreadful but I should've left then. I did for a day and she texted me saying if you leave we'll never talk again. Big contrast from when I DID leave and she came back around for sex. And then magically she claims to be happy with the new guy? I warned her shes repeating the cycle and she basically said OK, I'll do that.

[HappyNihilist]

Since the breakup I've been assigning attributes in my mind to her, putting her on a pedestal in my mind so to speak, that because she found a guy soon after I broke it off that she must be somehow better than me(?) or that I did something wrong.

What makes you feel that her finding a new boyfriend so soon after the breakup is a positive attribute? Jumping right into another relationship isn't generally a sign of emotional health.

Or are you saying that her finding someone else quickly makes you feel like you were the "problem"? If so, that's understandable - it's not true, but it's natural to have those doubts and worries. It sounds like a lot of your sense of self-worth may still be tied up with your ex. You're letting her actions define how you feel about yourself.

But given that she was diagnosed, admitted to having horrible thoughts and symptoms her whole life, the nature of the quick rebound and her impulse to have more children, I mean it seems everything points to illness, and that I'm not just an idiot or crazy for leaving.

I've posted a lot, gone back and forth, doubted my perceptions but this seems to be the final battle within, convincing myself she's somehow found the means to complete her life. I feel like a broken record on these boards but I suppose I'm just looking for something that points with certainty toward it being just more bs from the disordered behavior.

I understand the need to have your perceptions validated as reality - the often crazy-making nature of disordered relationships can leave us doubtful of ourselves and our perceptions.

It's impossible for us to give you certainty about your ex's behavior, or try to predict how her current relationship will play out. But you have some good tools in your own toolbox.

Your ex was professionally diagnosed with BPD and exhibited a lot of symptoms, repeatedly throughout her life. Those are facts.

Now, look at her behavior both during and after the relationship with those facts in mind. You have hard data and known trends that you can apply to her behavior. What can you extrapolate from that?

[disorderedsociety]

Thanks for the replies. What I can logically take from it all is that there is a pattern, it may repeat. It may not (my intuition doesn't say that this is the case.) Each of her boyfriends progressively got less abusive which is good, so maybe this one is a good match for her if he's as passive as it seems. I was abusive in the sense I was lying, saying I was gonna stay when I wasn't. Told her I loved her when really it was me trying to fill a void.

What confused me so much was when I was friends with this guy and told him about her, the lack of a job, etc. he was basically like, "dude what are you doing?" And after they started talking, "oh she's a lot like me." Like wth? It seemed to be implied that we agreed she was crazy, he even called her gross ("shes a creature dude" when she sent him nudes (drunk) but later got with her. I can only guess he was desperate. He told me he was willing to wait a year for this one girl he was talking to to leave her boyfriend and when my ex came along he jumped in. Who does that?

I do realize the extent of how much power over my self-esteem I've internally given her actions. I try not to beat myself up over it too much. It is getting better, I can distract myself and focus on the present but in my down time I'm thinking too much about this.

[once removed]

But I also vacillate between that and fantasies of her dropping by to cheat on him so I can take revenge on him so does that make me crazy? A little.

It's been 7 months, I figured I would be well past it. I don't constantly hurt and yearn for her since its been a while but still I feel contempt for their relationship.

I understand the part about them coming from different angles. That's what gets me. I feel like he's reaping all the work I put in. Then again, how can you be in love with someone, let alone have a kid with someone you've known for a month? It just doesn't make sense. And now the parenting role has grown on me since, and I can't help thinking I should settle down at 23 which, yeah a kid would make me strive to be a better person but I know I can't really trust my emotions.

hey disorderedsociety, youve gotten lots of great advice but i wanted to give you a response.

firstly, be patient with yourself. there is no official timeline here. during that seven months youve endured events that have reopened your wounds, the latest development included.

youre 23? you have your entire life ahead of you, and i say that as someone only a few years older. i know so many of our peers are settling down. and by that standard, so many are having children impulsively, divorcing, etc. emotional immaturity and broken relationships are abound. personally i wouldnt trade my life for anyone elses that i know. youve been through a hell of an experience and you have so much to gain and learn from it that will be invaluable to you in making you a more balanced, mature, and emotionally available person, and making you ripe for a healthy, happy relationship. as i see it, youre really digging into this, working on yourself, and doing the right things 

i have a lot of faith in you