One Thing That Still Really Bothers Me

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

So I've been coming to terms with my failed relationship with my BPDexgf, but there's one thing that's still really confusing to me.

When I met my BPDexgf, I screened her hard before we got involved.  I'd been working at a 'breastaurant' for about 3 months when she started working there again after ~4 months at a different location.  She had been there over a year before that.  

Basically I had decided that I wasn't going to get involved with ANY of the girls there--low self-esteem, entitlement issues, addicted to male attention, promiscuous, etc.  I had been spinning plates with a couple girls from school, and I had dropped those.  For me, the most attractive quality in a girl is self-respect--and nothing's more attractive to me than a girl that will put me in my place and won't tolerate bad behavior.

Anyway, the first thing I noticed about my ex was the way she carried herself--confident, self-assured, and the only girl that didn't 'flirt' with the male patrons.  Like at all.  I was also friends with a handful of the girls, some of the cooks, some of the regulars, and the managers.  I heard a lot about the girls there--there wasn't any dirt on my BPDexgf.  I put a couple feelers out there.  The general consensus was that everybody had tried and never got anywhere.  

As far as self-respect goes, my BPDexgf made it clear from the get go that I didn't have to play games.  When I tried to push her boundaries, she shut that down.  

I guess what it comes down to, is all of that makes her behavior post b/u even more confusing.  Three years in that environment--and NOW she starts acting like all the other girls.  :)oesn't carry herself with self-respect and frankly isn't someone I would've gotten involved with in the first place.

I guess what makes this really confusing to me is the fact that none of that could've been mirrored (probably part of the reason I didn't take the red flags too seriously).  People change, sure.  But it seems to me that there were intrinsic values there that are now totally gone.  And it's a shame because in my age demographic there's not a lot of girls that possess those values.    

[gameover]

So I've been coming to terms with my failed relationship with my BPDexgf, but there's one thing that's still really confusing to me.

When I met my BPDexgf, I screened her hard before we got involved.  I'd been working at a 'breastaurant' for about 3 months when she started working there again after ~4 months at a different location.  She had been there over a year before that.  

Basically I had decided that I wasn't going to get involved with ANY of the girls there--low self-esteem, entitlement issues, addicted to male attention, promiscuous, etc.  I had been spinning plates with a couple girls from school, and I had dropped those.  For me, the most attractive quality in a girl is self-respect--and nothing's more attractive to me than a girl that will put me in my place and won't tolerate bad behavior.

Anyway, the first thing I noticed about my ex was the way she carried herself--confident, self-assured, and the only girl that didn't 'flirt' with the male patrons.  Like at all.  I was also friends with a handful of the girls, some of the cooks, some of the regulars, and the managers.  I heard a lot about the girls there--there wasn't any dirt on my BPDexgf.  I put a couple feelers out there.  The general consensus was that everybody had tried and never got anywhere.  

As far as self-respect goes, my BPDexgf made it clear from the get go that I didn't have to play games.  When I tried to push her boundaries, she shut that down.  

I guess what it comes down to, is all of that makes her behavior post b/u even more confusing.  Three years in that environment--and NOW she starts acting like all the other girls.  :)oesn't carry herself with self-respect and frankly isn't someone I would've gotten involved with in the first place.

I guess what makes this really confusing to me is the fact that none of that could've been mirrored (probably part of the reason I didn't take the red flags too seriously).  People change, sure.  But it seems to me that there were intrinsic values there that are now totally gone.  And it's a shame because in my age demographic there's not a lot of girls that possess those values.    

[rotiroti]

Ah restaurant gigs. I used to work in one in Brooklyn during the summers and I don't think the shenanigans were just limited to Breastaurants. Closing time with free drinks was always a dangerous combination and it's where I rekindled with my BPDex (she had slept with everyone on staff but  I had   blind vision).

The fluctuating values is likely due to their ability to mirror whoever they are with. I knew my ex throughout my 20's and she had a different face for each group (And as we know about BPDs they can be really outgoing with many different groups). It feels strange writing about someone who was in my life for so long, but at the same time sounds like a complete stranger.

[gameover]

Yeah, I think the restaurant biz is typically a risky place to look for a solid relationship.  I tried to apply a solid filter to a murky situation--and I figured 1 year's reputation was a solid indicator of the future.  But I guess really any LTR is a bit of a gamble--people change, PD's or not; and the only way to find out is to give it a shot.

I'm kinda torn with relaxing my standards (something might be wrong when only a BPD fantasy girl can slip thru) or just dating around and always being ready to walk.  Plus figuring out where to meet girls with high self-esteem & personal standards that aren't just situational.

[rotiroti]

Yeah, I think the restaurant biz is typically a risky place to look for a solid relationship.  I tried to apply a solid filter to a murky situation--and I figured 1 year's reputation was a solid indicator of the future.  But I guess really any LTR is a bit of a gamble--people change, PD's or not; and the only way to find out is to give it a shot.

I'm kinda torn with relaxing my standards (something might be wrong when only a BPD fantasy girl can slip thru) or just dating around and always being ready to walk.  Plus figuring out where to meet girls with high self-esteem & personal standards that aren't just situational.

Your posts are always top-notch, you have a great insight to your identity.

I agree that you have to put yourself out there to meet people you want to meet. As for walking away, it's perfectly fine to have firm deal-breakers, especially when you're figuring out what works for you or what you can work with. I think you had mentioned that your ex had cheated and that's a fair deal-breaker for many.

These deal-breakers become even more evident once the initial attraction fades and vulnerabilities start to crop up - I think everyone has a tendency to split someone white to some degree during the infatuation stage, BPD or not. That's why I always see the value of living together before marriage, but that's a whole another topic!

I know thinking about dating after a fallout with a pwBPD can make one wary, but dating's  a gamble  that should be a fun. I like to think that this sort of experience gives us an edge for the next roll - hopefully more wiser to spot the red flags in future partners and in ourselves.

There are infinitesimal combination of traits in people - just like all the different kinds of patrons, it's ok to find one that you can hang with

[gameover]

She was technically already my ex when she 'cheated,' but physical fidelity is a huge boundary for me--regardless of titles.

My biggest issues are internal conflict and cognitive dissonance.  Realistically, I'm highly skeptical of monogamous relationships; on the other hand, I have a deep romantic inclination toward idealized love.  I'm also a writer so I often put myself in dysfunctional situations to 'get material,' which requires a full emotional investment on my end; but with an internalized detached observer in my head that's ready to bail when my psyche reaches its breaking point.  

So on one hand, I know what's good/fulfilling/healthy for me on a personal level.  On an artistic/aesthetic level, I go for 'situations' that I know will leave me emotionally battered and would make for an interesting biography.

Ironically, I thought my BPDexgf was an indulgence toward the good/fulfilling/healthy  .  And she did offer me a level of emotional stability and comfort that I never experienced in my FOO.  Unfortunately, investing more time in my writing triggered her abandonment.  So that wasn't sustainable.

I guess for all of us on here it comes to finding a balance--and finding relationships that fits our personal lives instead of shaping our personal lives around a relationship.

[apollotech]

I guess what makes this really confusing to me is the fact that none of that could've been mirrored (probably part of the reason I didn't take the red flags too seriously).  People change, sure.  But it seems to me that there were intrinsic values there that are now totally gone.

gameover,

I assume that you are saying that she wasn't mirroring what you saw as "good" intrinsic values. Why do you believe that those cannot be mirrored? There are a lot of examples on the boards where "good" values were mirrored, and the Non bought, wholeheartedly, into those as being the actual "intrinsic" values of the pwBPD. That's part of idealization. That's part of us being allowed to see "exactly" what "we" wanted to see. Many shrinks/professionals have been/are fooled by this.

My BPDexgf is very good at hiding herself from any general acquaintance, and even close friends. Many of our mutual friends have known her for the same amount of time that I have, 40+ years. They have never met her. I had never met her until she and I established a deep emotional bond. What I thought to be "intrinsic," what our mutual friends still believe to be "intrinsic," are simply facets of her facade, used to conceal her disorder. That persona allows her to function and interact within/with the general populace. We all use different personas based on circumstances and who we're interacting with, but usually we don't use them to completely hide ourselves.

[Lucky Jim]

What I thought to be "intrinsic," what our mutual friends still believe to be "intrinsic," are simply facets of her facade, used to conceal her disorder.

Agree w/that, apollotech.  In my view, PwBPD are extremely good at hiding their disorder from the outside world, including friends and social acquaintances.  Only those closest to the pwBPD, i.e., the SO, family members and maybe an extremely close friend or two, will appreciate the extent of his/her BPD.  To everyone else, it's largely a facade, or facets of the facade, as you put it.  Only those who have been in a r/s with a pwBPD know what a pwBPD is really like behind closed doors, which is to say a Jeckyll and Hyde, or someone out of a Stephen King novel . . .

LuckyJim

[Pretty Woman]

Breastaurant.

Ha Ha... .I am going to use that term the next time we're all going for some hot wings... .

[apollotech]

What I thought to be "intrinsic," what our mutual friends still believe to be "intrinsic," are simply facets of her facade, used to conceal her disorder.

Agree w/that, apollotech.  In my view, PwBPD are extremely good at hiding their disorder from the outside world, including friends and social acquaintances.  Only those closest to the pwBPD, i.e., the SO, family members and maybe an extremely close friend or two, will appreciate the extent of his/her BPD.  To everyone else, it's largely a facade, or facets of the facade, as you put it.  Only those who have been in a r/s with a pwBPD know what a pwBPD is really like behind closed doors, which is to say a Jeckyll and Hyde, or someone out of a Stephen King novel . . .

LuckyJim

Hi LJ,

If I came clean to our mutual friends about what I had experienced while with our mutual friend, they'd be in disbelief or denial. Some of them have seen her rage, but they don't associate it with a mental disorder; it's passed off as her having a "temper." So, the disorder slips out occasionally, but not frequently enough or severely enough for the non-attached to see the cyclical nature of, cause and effect of, nor the triggers of her behaviors.

Only one of our mutual friends knows my story. For the rest I just say the we tried and it didn't work out. For them, she is who they have always known. She is safe there. I'll never tell my story and disrupt that.

[Lucky Jim]

Same here, apollotech.  I let others come to their own conclusions about our mutual friend.  Besides, no one would believe half the stuff if I told them, anyway, as you note, because her behavior was so bizarre or outlandish.  In the meantime, I let our mutual friends continue to think that my Ex is "wild and crazy" or otherwise an amusing "character."  My BPDxW is quite gregarious and was once regarded as the unofficial "mayor" of our town.  Little did anyone know what the "mayor" was really like behind closed doors!

LuckyJim

[myself]

I often put myself in dysfunctional situations to 'get material,'

I go for 'situations' that I know will leave me emotionally battered

It's understandable that her actions may be leaving you kind of baffled.

Yet when you place yourself there, why would it bother you so much?

'Gameover' is a good name to have if you're changing your own patterns.

[gameover]

I assume that you are saying that she wasn't mirroring what you saw as "good" intrinsic values. Why do you believe that those cannot be mirrored?

No doubt they can be mirrored; but from what I could gather they existed before I entered the picture and I observed them in action before she knew anything about me.  Makes the personality switch post b/u--in public & private--a tougher pill to swallow. 

Maybe a postmortem attempt at devaluing the relationship via action? Or maybe an attempt at getting a reaction from me.  Oh well.

I often put myself in dysfunctional situations to 'get material,'

I go for 'situations' that I know will leave me emotionally battered

It's understandable that her actions may be leaving you kind of baffled.

Yet when you place yourself there, why would it bother you so much?

'Gameover' is a good name to have if you're changing your own patterns.

Just because I didn't see her as 'material.'  I saw her more as something meaningful and beneficial to my personal life, which I guard pretty carefully--as apart from my artistic life.  But, yeah, there are patterns that need breaking--and hopefully a healthy synthesis somewhere in there.

[Gonzalo]

Maybe a postmortem attempt at devaluing the relationship via action? Or maybe an attempt at getting a reaction from me.  Oh well.

It may not have anything to do with you at all, it could be that she found a new person or new friend with those values and that's where she's getting her current personality. After learning about BPD, I realized my ex- would 'catch' thought patterns from people. For example, she had a friend who was a big social justice warrior type, who liked to talk about things like getting arrested in protests. One day out of the blue my ex- started talking about how great it would be to join a protest and get arrested, and seemed to want to make it a date. When I pointed out that I didn't want to risk my job and clean criminal history, she acted like I was being unreasonable and unsympathetic... .even though in the past she had never been to any protests or expressed strong interest in the cause.

[HappyNihilist]

So on one hand, I know what's good/fulfilling/healthy for me on a personal level.  On an artistic/aesthetic level, I go for 'situations' that I know will leave me emotionally battered and would make for an interesting biography.

It's great that you know rationally what is good, fulfilling, and healthy for you. But, as you know, we humans don't always do what we know is rationally best for us.

Do you think that your attraction to dysfunctional 'situations' that will leave you emotionally battered is purely from an artistic perspective? Why do you believe that emotional devastation makes an 'interesting' biography?

I'm kinda torn with relaxing my standards (something might be wrong when only a BPD fantasy girl can slip thru) or just dating around and always being ready to walk.  Plus figuring out where to meet girls with high self-esteem & personal standards that aren't just situational.

Why not spend some time with yourself, not dating or worrying about meeting girls? Write and journal. Get to know yourself better.

Because the truth is this - something might be is wrong when only a BPD fantasy girl can slip thru

You've shown a lot of insight in your posts, especially about how "nons" play a vital role in the BPD relationship.    Taking the time to figure ourselves out after the end of the relationship is very important.

This sounds like a good place to start -

My biggest issues are internal conflict and cognitive dissonance.  

Keep up the good work.