Recognizing and dealing with our own unhealthy behaviors and coping mechanisms

[Kwamina]

Hi again DearBFF

Do you ever feel like that about things from your past?  It's kind of like I lived it, but in a way it's like not having lived it because I have no one to validate things that happened to me.

I can very much relate to this. It can reach the point that you start to doubt your own memories and sanity because no one else seems to perceive the past the way you did. I have written down in a sort of journal some of the things I experienced growing up. This written log has actually also helped me validate that those things really happened and that my mother was wrong to behave like that.

For instance if a friend would call and not identify themselves, "Hello this is Jill calling for your daughter, is she available please?" he began to hang up on them because he felt it was rude.  Somehow it did not occur to them that him hanging up on them in the first place would be considered much more rude than well, almost anyone on Earth.  So after a weekend of friends telling me they were hung up on by my father I followed suit.  Someone called for him I answered and they said, "Hello... ." No identification, so I hung up.  He literally stormed into the room minutes later when the phone rang again and he answered to an irate friend telling him his daughter rudely hung up on them.  I waited for him to finish and said simply, "He did not identify himself.  Isn't that your rule?"   ... .He never hung up on any of my friends again!  

Turning the tables, classic!

Unfortunately, to this day I still have some sounds that throw me off as well.  I honestly think that my father actually made me sensitive to sound.  Sometimes the smallest thing can just drive me nuts.  One of them is rubbing together your pointer and thumb, it sounds so innocent but seriously rub them together and then place them by your ear.  It sounds that LOUD to me no matter where someone is doing it, it's like I hear it above everything else.  So if someone is talking to me for instance and doing that at the same time I literally have to ask them to stop, I cannot focus on them speaking while they do that because I cannot hear their words over the sound.  I also am sensitive to motion... .if someone is bouncing their knee within a foot of me for instance I cannot stand it long before I ask them to stop, as to me it feels like I'm sitting on their knee while they bounce me up and down instead.

Why do you think these particular sounds and motions bother you?

Did your father make that sound with his fingers? And did he perhaps also bounce you up and down on his knees?

Can you identify the specific thoughts that go through your mind and the feelings you experience when you here these sounds and/or witness these motions?

They taught me lying was part of daily life, yet you weren't supposed to do it... .it made no sense.

... .

as I got older and understood it was stealing I would refuse to eat, then I'd be sick in the car and be lightheaded and I'd be yelled at for feeling faint because I did not partake in the stolen breakfast when I had the chance.  I would end up punished for doing the RIGHT thing... .it was exhausting!

This is very confusing for a child getting mixed messages like this and actually being punished for doing the right thing  It's very good though that you were able to see what was really going on and separate yourself from your parents's view of right and wrong.

I can imagine how hard and unpleasant it must have been for you, finding out you had been adopted and being lied to like that. I am sorry you had this experience DearBFF

[Kwamina]

Hi Auslaunder and Pina Colada

I would also like to thank the two of you for joining this discussion

I became a workaholic and perfectionist. I used to personalize failures as a reflection of my character. I didn't see myself as anything except my work or accomplishments. My father never valued me as a unique person so I hadn't developed self worth. When I got to college, I wasn't the best at everything anymore. (Big fish in a small pond) but I had friends who loved and valued me. I developed the talents I chose and started to use my creativity. Writing, acting, video production, also in scientific pursuits. I wasn't chasing acclaim or approval anymore but what I saw value in.

I think a lot of children of BPD parents struggle with perfectionism as a result of the critical voice they might have internalized from their parent(s). I am glad you have been able to recognize this dynamic now and it sounds like you've made some serious progress in the way you view yourself and your self-worth

I also use avoidant behaviors. Avoiding conflicts isn't always bad but I also was avoiding positive social situations because it made me nervous. I know that people find me likeable but I felt like I couldn't relate to normal happy people for many years. I learned that most people have problems and they can relate.

This is something I can relate to very much. I still at times find it difficult relating to 'normal' people. You rightly point out though that most people have certain problems. Often we tend to compare our 'inner life' to their 'outer life' and no wonder we then end up feeling like we don't fit in or are less 'worthy'. If we would be able to look below the surface, more often than not we'd probably discover that most other people also have their own struggles in their 'inner life' just like us.

Today my biggest struggle is with children. I love children but I have no idea how to discipline them properly. I feel very inadequate.

Why do you think this is? Is it perhaps because you were never modeled what proper disciplining is from your parents? Or are you perhaps concerned that you might make the same mistakes as your parents did?

This is such a good topic!  I grew up with a BPD sibling.  She is older than I and doesn't play fair.  I have always tried to take the higher road, as in ignore, but at times I had fallen prey to her level.  I do not like when I get that way.  They just seem to "fight so dirty" it is hard to ignore at times.  I have been NC for over a year, again, my choice.  That has helped me greatly.  I stay away from situations where I could possibly sink to her level.  Although it can be hard to ignore the behaviors, they are so mean, I choose to ignore them and it has helped me grow to a new level.  

Knowing your triggers is very important. There are techniques that can help you better manage your thoughts and emotions once you get into a triggered state and also help prevent you from getting too triggered. Yet sometimes, it might be best to avoid or remove yourself from certain triggering situations altogether.

It can be difficult to understand why people with BPD act the way they do. Perhaps another way of looking at it is, instead of labeling what they or we do as good or bad etc., considering that people with BPD are wired differently from non-disordered people. You could say their mind works in a different way and as a result they perceive and process things differently which then results into behavior that would seem strange if it came from a non-disordered person. However, if we keep in mind that this behavior stems from a disordered mind, it in a way makes sense that people with BPD behave the way they do. They are of course still responsible for their actions and can be held accountable for them (including not seeking help for their issues). What they can't be held accountable for is the fact that they have BPD and as a result have a mind which is wired differently from non-disordered people.

[Harri]

Hi Leaving!  Thank *you* for your perspective.  This made me laugh: 

I wonder which one of us would have been more successful- the prostitute or the stripper?  Geesh!  They could have set the bar a little higher for us- at least a Rockette dancer, eh?

Hmmm, I think we both would have done well as we are both smart enough to choose only high class establishments, right?  My mother would also encourage me to be a nun.  Talk about mixed messages!  She wanted me to be a nun because according to her, it would give her a ticket to heaven with no stop-over in purgatory.    

I have never though about NPD in relation to my friend, tho I can see where some of the traits do apply to her.  I actually said something to her the other day, but it was the wrong time and place for a discussion (it just came out!).  I did decide to approach the situation the same way I did with my mother.  With her, I did not bother addressing past incidents as there was too much space for denial and a good chance that I would just confirm that I was the crazy one.  (Plus, she re-wrote history, and I really believe she was not always aware of what she did.  She was also absolutely convinced she was a good mother and loved me well.  I decided long ago to accept that that was her reality and I was never going to get her to see it differently.  She was mentally ill.) 

Instead, I focused on being in the moment and speaking up with each new incident.  No chance for me to fall into self-doubt due to the passage of time and I was clear enough to know exactly what I was feeling when I said anything.  I think what matters is dealing with stuff in the present and speaking up for myself and then gauging what my next course of action will be.  I fully expect a few arguments and some ramping up of the crappy treatment before seeing if there is a change.  Either way, I am firm in my mind that what we have is an imbalanced relationship and I need to change how I interact with her.  Whether we can rebuild or not doesn't really matter to me either.  I need to do this for me and if we end up not being friends, that is okay too.

sweet passive souls like ourselves

  I am not at all sweet and passive.  I'm all too capable of being verbally aggressive and abusive.  I tend to hold things in, sometimes for years, rationalizing, excusing, etc but the anger builds... .and then I let it out.  I have left a few bloody bodies (not literally!) after letting loose and I am very conscious of that.  Once I reach that point with someone, I am there every blasted time.  Speaking up in the moment is the only thing that has ever worked in terms of me not holding onto hurt and anger and then I can speak in such a way that no bandages are needed.  All I have to do, in addition to just stopping, is figure out why I hold things in with some people and not others.   

Leaving, I am so sorry you have to deal with this sort of thing from your husband and mother.  Being around that all the time?  It is demoralizing and so hard to fight against not feeling less than. 

I have to be very careful and selective in who I share my truth and my needs with.  One way to protect myself is to quit thinking that I'm broken or needy.  I know it's difficult to give up what little bits the N's offer that we have comfortably relied on but finding the courage to say no more and seek other more healthy means of support must be our goal.

Well put and I agree.  I hope as you continue to work on you and heal that you are able to surround yourself with healthy and kind people who can see all the good inside of you.  I hope that for all of us.

Happy New Year to you Leaving.  That blessing was lovely and made me feel your warmth and kindness.  I know I am late posting, but I was indeed with you celebrating.  Thanks for having me.   

[Harri]

Hi BFF.  I just lost a long reply to you.  I hate when that happens!

I can relate to the lying and stealing.  My mother would steal stuff from hotels, steal stuff from the casino buffets (in plastic baggies stuffed in a large purse), cheat.  Basically she would do whatever she could to get stuff free.  One of her favorite things would be to call a manufacturer and complain so they would send her a replacement (nothing wrong with the original). 

This right here is so right:

It's like the whole world evolves because you change one thing, then another, and another... .

Yes.  We don't know how our own filters, formed by our life experiences, impacts what we see in the world.  It is hard to get beyond the filters but when I do, it really does change my world.

I am thankful for everyone here who shares their own views and experiences because it helps me to see more clearly.  Thanks for being a part of that DearBFF.   

[vanisis]

Kwamina,

I grew up surrounded by unhealthy parents, siblings (unhealthy because of parents of course) and a bunch of crappy relatives from my mother's side.

I got married into a bossy but 'functional' family and it was tough! Over the years, while resisting vehemently, but nevertheless overpowered by, I underwent a metamorphosis of thoughts and actions. I was not in a position to appreciate the changes for many years. I got married at 22. But, looking back now (nearly 2 decades later), I am really thankful for god's intervention

~vanisis

[Kwamina]

Hey welcome back vanisis!

Long time no see

I grew up surrounded by unhealthy parents, siblings (unhealthy because of parents of course) and a bunch of crappy relatives from my mother's side.

I got married into a bossy but 'functional' family and it was tough! Over the years, while resisting vehemently, but nevertheless overpowered by, I underwent a metamorphosis of thoughts and actions. I was not in a position to appreciate the changes for many years. I got married at 22. But, looking back now (nearly 2 decades later), I am really thankful for god's intervention

I am glad you were able to undergo this spectacular metamorphosis, sounds like you really like what you turned into!

Can you tell us a bit more about the changes you've underwent? In what ways have your thoughts and actions changed?

[DearBFF]

Harri, I hate when that happens too! ... .

It is so nice to be able to come here to talk about this stuff.  It's hard IRL because it seems a lot of people just don't talk about this stuff.  Either they had such peachy lives (or think they did) that they have no understanding of this kind of thing, or they are in a place like BFF where they deny everything they have disliked about their past and any such discussion is met with denial and/or anger.

Thanks and giant hugs to everyone from me as well!    

[Panda39]

I am not at all sweet and passive.  I'm all too capable of being verbally aggressive and abusive.  I tend to hold things in, sometimes for years, rationalizing, excusing, etc but the anger builds... .and then I let it out.  I have left a few bloody bodies (not literally!) after letting loose and I am very conscious of that.  Once I reach that point with someone, I am there every blasted time.  Speaking up in the moment is the only thing that has ever worked in terms of me not holding onto hurt and anger and then I can speak in such a way that no bandages are needed.  All I have to do, in addition to just stopping, is figure out why I hold things in with some people and not others.   

I don't have a mom with a personality disorder but she does have some Narcissistic traits and I was brought up to believe and follow her "rules" of behavior (some rather black and white thinking).  I held everything in too because I was following the rules.  I eventually figured out that I would blow my top when her rules of behavior came into direct conflict with my own beliefs, wishes or behaviors... .it's kind of a black and white thinking kind of thing. 

For example:

I accepted an invitation to a brunch and offered to bring fruit salad then the morning of the brunch I really didn't want to go. I spent the whole morning agitated violently chopping fruit for the salad I felt obligated to bring to the brunch I didn't want to go to.  I made the commitment so I felt like I had to go (mom rule/social rule) but really didn't want to go.  In my mind it was either go and resent it or stay home and feel guilty for not keeping the commitment or that my friend would be mad at me for not going.  So there I was ch... .ch... .chopping fruit    It was either/or... .black or white. I was in conflict with myself and couldn't see the gray.  Gray might have been take the salad and make a brief visit, call and tell the truth that I just woke up and didn't feel up to it or even see if anyone else was coming by my place to pick up the salad I promised to provide. But noo I was having a meltdown in the kitchen and the poor fruit were the beneficiaries of my anger and frustration.  I ended up lying and told my friend I wasn't feeling well.  Not a good way to handle it.  (My son who witnessed this episode... .5+ years ago... .of my irrational loss of temper still calls it the "fruit incident"  These types of things didn't happen often but they weren't pretty when they did.

I like Harri have been working on speaking up more and asking for what I need.  I haven't had that type of melt down in the last three years or more.  I'm better at listening to my own inner voice and I'm also better at being honest about what I want and need.

And the fruit no longer run in terror when I enter the kitchen 

Panda39

[vanisis]

Hi Kwamina,

I had lots of learned BPD traits such as exaggerating( => lying!), black and white thinking, hypersensitivity to perceived criticism. Growing up with BPD people, these were normal traits to me.

I got married at 22. My hubby and his family members are 'normal' but are interfering, critical, and bossy  . They have a rigid,value based lifestyle.That's exactly what I needed (not wanted). I was forced to 're parent' myself.

I say all these things today. If I had resources and support from my BPD peeps back when I got married, I would have wrecked my life   

~vanisis

[DearBFF]

Panda39, thank you for sharing your story!  I can completely relate... .I'm still working on not overextending myself to this day.  There is a place I used to volunteer (mostly because BFF used to work there) and I no longer go as I felt they were always expecting me to do things I didn't want to so I had to pull back in order to keep my plate from getting too full.  It's no fun when you feel like you HAVE to instead of wanting to.  Growing up the rules were ridiculous and too numerous to name.  It took such a long time for me to realize I could make my own rules, and I don't think I kept many/if any of the ones I had growing up.   

vanisis, I haven't thought much about how BPD can rub off on others, as you described.  Growing up in a dysfunctional household there were many things I thought were "normal" as well and then later realized weren't in reality.  I'm curious you mention "if you had resources and support from your BPD peeps" does this mean that by the time you got married you no longer had a relationship with them?  Did you find it easier to distance yourself, than to maintain the relationships?

[vanisis]

vanisis I'm curious you mention "if you had resources and support from your BPD peeps" does this mean that by the time you got married you no longer had a relationship with them?  Did you find it easier to distance yourself, than to maintain the relationships?

By the time I got married, both my elder sisters were already married and settled in US. (I was in India). I was fresh out of college. Met and married my husband within a span of 4 months and came under hubby's family regime Which was a good thing. Had I married into a 'soft' family (I am terrible at articulating, pardon me ) or had money of my own/sisters to support my BPD traits, then maybe I would have missed the opportunity to 're parent' myself. Hope what I wrote makes sense.

[Kwamina]

Hi Leaving

Let us bless the flow of life that revives us, sustains us and brings us to this day.

Rise up, shine, for your light is here!

May your heart be lightened and your spirit born anew.

Thanks for sharing these beautiful words with us  

[DearBFF]

I think I understand, vanisis... .You sort of needed that structure in order to kind of talk yourself out of the BPDness of it all?  Am I getting that right?  A soft family may have tried to coddle you and please you instead of putting their foot down and not tolerating the behaviors.  Did I get it?

On one hand I think BFF may have found something similar now, but at the same time it feels like the family/"boyfriend" (more specifically) may just be invalidating her.  She will complain about something and how crappy she feels about it, and he will just say something like "it is your fault it is that way."  If I have said anything like that (in the beginning before I understood validation) she literally tried to bite my head off, but since she loves him she just kind of giggles it off.  It's a bit confusing for me as on one hand he's just telling it like it is, on the other hand I do wonder if she will just get sick of it and want some understanding instead so she doesn't feel like her feelings are wrong.  She has gotten into the habit of playing the victim so often that if people don't cater to her, she casts them off accusing them of not caring.

Did your husband's family ever make you feel invalidated, like your feelings were not "normal" and did that cause you to reparent or was it more that you wanted to fit in and not rock the boat since you were being accepted?

Thanks for sharing!