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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Question: How would you have handled the event described in the originating post?
Apologized and offered refund
Offered refund
Offered refund and express feelings of being insulted
Offered refund contingent on apology from the buyer
No response
No refund
No refund, express feelings of being insulted
No refund, ask for apology
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Author Topic: POLL: My BPD detector went off today... interested in comments on my reaction  (Read 3584 times)
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« Reply #150 on: August 23, 2015, 01:26:27 PM »

look at the interaction from the point of view of his disgruntled buyer.

I think you are asking a question of empathy skills… Below is work that was developed for the DSM 5 where the working committee created a scale for measuring empathy… how well we can look at the things from the point of view of others.

It's interesting.


DSM 5 Empathy Assessment Levels

Healthy (0) Capable of accurately understanding others’ experiences and motivations in most situations. Comprehends and appreciates others’ perspectives, even if disagreeing. Is aware of the effect of own actions on others.

Mild impairment (1) Somewhat compromised in ability to appreciate and understand others’ experiences; may tend to see others as having unreasonable expectations or a wish for control. Although capable of considering and understanding different perspectives, resists doing so. Inconsistent is awareness of effect of own behavior on others.

Impaired (2) Hyper-attuned to the experience of others, but only with respect to perceived relevance to self. Excessively self-referential; significantly compromised ability to appreciate and understand others’ experiences and to consider alternative perspectives. Generally unaware of or unconcerned about effect of own behavior on others, or unrealistic appraisal of own effect.

Very Impaired (3) Ability to consider and understand the thoughts, feelings and behavior of other people is significantly limited; may discern very specific aspects of others’ experience, particularly vulnerabilities and suffering. Generally unable to consider alternative perspectives; highly threatened by differences of opinion or alternative viewpoints. Confusion or unawareness of impact of own actions on others; often bewildered about peoples’ thoughts and actions, with destructive motivations frequently misattributed to others.

Extreme Impairment (4) Pronounced inability to consider and understand others’ experience and motivation. Attention to others' perspectives virtually absent (attention is hypervigilant, focused on need-fulfillment and harm avoidance). Social interactions can be confusing and disorienting.


More here... .
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« Reply #151 on: August 23, 2015, 02:23:42 PM »

For some reason, this interaction stuck in formflier's mind and that is why he chose to post it. However he deals with people is his choice. He did ask for feedback and several of us tried to point out that regardless of whether the stroller was broken, his buyer was really upset and the way he chose to deal with the situation inflamed it, rather than leading to a win/win.

Since this topic has really taken off... .I question whether I can really say what I was thinking when I posted it.  Broadly... .I figured there would be some light banter about how we "see" PDs more now that we are familiar... .or "notice" that type of behavior...  Perhaps some similar stories from others.


So... .I'm interested in comments on how I handled this... .I met this lady in person 1 time when she picked it up.

I think I got a comment or two... .

Anyway... .the entire "vibe" of the way she kinda asked for her money back... but not directly... .just the way all of this reads... .set off my "BPD detector"

Do you guys notice things like this more?  

My remembrance is that 1 or 2 people mentioned noticing this more... .I figured this would be main thrust... .the "lens" with which we see the world.

Has a r/s with a pwBPD changed the way you interact with the world?


It has for me... .

Don't really remember much about this question... if there were any responses.

I basically figured out under what circumstances I would be ok giving back the $$... .and offered that to her... .for some reason... .(unknown to me)... .she decided her apology was worth more to her (to keep it)... .than $30... .

At no point did I consider her emotional state... .not my role.  It was my choice of what role to play.  I picked that role not because I was seeking drama, or my soul was crushed by what she said, but by my history.  This is how I have been successful in business type situations with people that I have no long term "personal" interest with.  Especially people that come across "less than friendly".  

I'm a talker... .I'm from the south... .I went to a big 10 university... .and people thought I was odd that I waived and said hey to other students (that I didn't know) as I walked around... .so... .if a stranger wants to talk and is at all friendly... .the likelihood is... .you are going to start a gabfest.  I'm an extrovert... .big time.

However... .people that behave in odd ways... .that violate "polite" rules (civility... whatever)... .I don't have much tolerance for.  I have made a choice to not tolerate them... .

Anyway... .hope this sparks a discussion about how what we have learned impacts the way we interact with the world.

The old me would have "debated" her about the finer points of the exchange... what she said... .what I said... blah blah...

FF

This last part I posted... .makes we wonder if the INCREASE in dealing with BPDish behavior at home has lead to a DECREASE in the amount of "odd" behavior I deal with (by choice) outside the home.

Again... .I do remember the days when I would not have tried to be so succinct... and try to put myself out there a bit more.

Now that I know what to look for... .I saw hints in my first 15 years of marriage... .but it went bezerk after a natural disaster forced us out of our home for about half a year.  There was about 3 to 3.5 years of really... .really bad stuff... .that was steadily getting worse until I heard about BPD... .got Eggshells book... and found this site.

Last year and a half (since finding this site) has been an adventure... .but the broad trend is towards improvement.  

As for things the formflier will be pondering... .rather than the specifics of how I would best handle the lady... .I'm now thinking more about how I "appear" to the world... .after the last 5 years.

Was it MaybeSo that said we all have wounds.  I have a lot of known wounds... .but I'm sure that I have some I don't know about or "understand" yet.  Perhaps the increase in empathy required at home... .as lead to a decrease in empathy I put out for the rest of the world?  Not even sure if that is a "wound"... .but something I am pondering.

More stuff to look over... .and respond to...

FF


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« Reply #152 on: August 23, 2015, 02:30:48 PM »

I won't assume to know what is being referred to, as I clearly can misunderstand.

However, I am aware that my communication is somewhat unclear, both expressively and receptively.

In the spirit of clarification... .

Excerpt
To those of you who think she's a scam artist--really? For $30

While I do not know if this refers to my comment of scam artist... .

I do realize that comment by me was not clear.

I was referring to her perception of FF as being a scam artist.

If I recall correctly, she invited FF to consider things from his W perspective... .and had his wife been "duped" how he would feel.

I feel that her admonishment had some validity.

If I were FF, and my W was perceived as intentionally scammed by a person, knowing the result could cause harm to the children, (as was her expressed reality) then I'd not advise my W to further contact this person, but rather cut the loss at $30 bucks.

Someone capable of intentional misleading behavior that could injure a child... .

Setting the boundary to cease contact is a healthy example to all.  IMHO.  

The lady is claiming he is liable to the potential of harming her kids.

However, willing to continue contact?

Rather than pick and choose to follow the reality of her words vs her actions.  

I think it is wise... .To be safe... .and choose safety as priority over all else.
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« Reply #153 on: August 23, 2015, 02:33:26 PM »

My objective in pursuing this topic, albeit a bit aggressively when I meant to be assertive, was hoping that formflier could look at the interaction from the point of view of his disgruntled buyer. I don't think I've accomplished that.

Cat, I'm so glad you've persisted in posting because it's clarifying my thinking as well. Others have offered some excellent suggestions as to how FF could have approached this interaction, and some of them he seems receptive to and likely to employ if ever presented with a similar situation in the future.  In other words, exactly what he was looking for in posting about this.

My focus is on making sure that even though there might be "better" ways to handle this, more enlightened, more empathetic, etc, that we don't mistakenly imply that he was somehow OBLIGATED to respond in these ways (there's that FOG thing).  While it might have been preferable for him to take another approach, once attacked, he was under no obligation to do anything other than respond respectfully with his conditions for further interaction.  Yes, he might have been kinder, soothed her inflamed feelings, but that was not his responsibility - nice, yes, maybe preferable, but not mandatory.  I know for myself, I have had to learn slowly and painfully the importance of having healthy boundaries with people who demonstrate that they don't start from a place of mutual respect.  I believe we have a duty to not cause harm to other people, even if they come at us in an aggressive, rude, disrespectful, whatever way.  So to become hostile, punishing, etc would have been meeting a wrong with another wrong.  But when wronged, we are not obligated to allow ourselves to be harmed further.  We are fully within our rights to cease all further interactions, or state our conditions for moving forward.
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« Reply #154 on: August 23, 2015, 02:35:50 PM »

 

There is potential for scamming on all sides... .

The thing that seems preposterous to me... .is that 3 (2 wheel and 1 hand) independent brake systems failed at or about the same time.

It is not impossible... .but... .

FF
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« Reply #155 on: August 23, 2015, 02:43:21 PM »

While it might have been preferable for him to take another approach, once attacked, he was under no obligation to do anything other than respond respectfully with his conditions for further interaction. 

This was exactly the way I approached it... .although I don't want to overplay the conscious thought I put into it.

I didn't debate... .validate or not?  In these situations... .this is how I normally respond.  Over the years I have found that this response serves me best.

FF
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« Reply #156 on: August 23, 2015, 02:51:09 PM »

FF, what is your takeaway from all of this?  

What is the central issue here and what have you gotten from the discussion?  

What point would you make for others?
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« Reply #157 on: August 23, 2015, 03:07:45 PM »

FF, what is your takeaway from all of this?  

What is the central issue here and what have you gotten from the discussion?  

What point would you make for others?

Interesting question... .one that I have been considering... .not sure that I have any earth shattering responses yet.

Certainly I have thought about this more deeply than during the original incident.

My current analysis (not complete by any means) is that I tend to go through life and respond to "bad input" with boundaries... .vice validation, empahty or understanding.  I really hadn't thought about it that deeply before.

The central issue (IMO) is a debate about which to lead with.  Boundaries... .or validate first to see if we can calm a situation.

2 points I would make for others. 

1.  Think about how you want to present yourself to the world and then do so... .without apology.  Others will choose a different path... .that's ok.

2.  Somehow work into your sales interactions (if there will be any) a question of are you happy with the condition of the product or ask if they want to check it out. 

Will keep thinking about this...

FF
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« Reply #158 on: August 24, 2015, 09:09:44 AM »

This thread is closed for comments.

The poll is still open.
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