The blame game...

[thisagain]

What motivated me to join here was that my partner totally lost control and started blaming me for all the problems in our relationship. She made mostly false and judgmental accusations about how I've treated her, and blamed me for making her suicidal. I didn't accept the blame, but I did decide to work harder on cleaning up my side of the street, as yall say.

Since I've been participating here and working hard on the lessons, there's been much less conflict (thanks all!  ). My partner has started saying things like she's so glad she talked to me about how I was treating her because now I'm so much kinder. And that now we can work toward having sex because she can trust me now that I'm not treating her so badly.

How do I respond to that kind of statement without impliedly agreeing that I used to treat her badly? I kind of want to stick up for myself somehow. It feels disrespectful to myself to let her think I agree that it was all my fault and I used to treat her badly. (Or at least to continue the relationship knowing she's under that impression.)

Plus for over a year she's been withholding intimacy and blaming it on me. Her reasons why it's my fault have been shifting, inconsistent, nonsensical, and/or cruel, such as she's not attracted to me because of my disability. So I'm really not willing to just have sex with her after she tells me we can do it now that I don't treat her so badly. I at least want us to agree that we both played a role in the conflicts and it's easier to be intimate now that we're not fighting so much. No blame there.

For me there's a big difference between treating her badly and not handling her BPD as well as I could. I know that I was acting like a normal healthy person this whole time (including making mistakes, but within the realm of reasonable mistakes that humans make because we're human). The conflict happened because she was not able to act like a normal healthy person or handle my normal healthy emotional responses. But she doesn't have the self-awareness about her illness to see that.

Obviously I'm glad things are going well in general. I'd just like to keep some dignity and avoid playing into her victim narrative.

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PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Daniell85]

Maybe you could give her a hug and tell what you said here. : I am happy things are better now, too.

It bypasses blame and validates her positive feelings.

[thisagain]

Thanks! That's pretty much what I've been doing, but I'm worried that it's coming across as admitting that I used to treat her badly. And it doesn't feel right to start this new phase of our relationship with her thinking that all the previous problems were my fault. Like I said, it feels disrespectful to myself and everything I've been through. Does that make sense?

[Daniell85]

It makes a lot of sense. My BPD likes to make sure he isnt to blame, but basically wants to have the relationship under the banner that i am the problem. I meet a ton of inner resistence on that idea.  It really is effecting my capacity to have empathy for him.

[thisagain]

And then the next day she is sulking and expressing guilt for "messing up so much all the time"... .but that still doesn't bring her closer to me.

I'm surprised it doesn't come up here more often. What happens when we start working harder (to cope with their BPD), conflict is reduced, and they point to the reduction in conflict as proof that we were the problem all along.

I wish we could just agree that we both made mistakes, we both could have done better, and now we should focus on moving forward to build a better relationship. But I think she knows deep down what the source of the problems is, and she can't deal with the shame unless she blames me.

[dacoming]

And then the next day she is sulking and expressing guilt for "messing up so much all the time"... .but that still doesn't bring her closer to me.

I'm surprised it doesn't come up here more often. What happens when we start working harder (to cope with their BPD), conflict is reduced, and they point to the reduction in conflict as proof that we were the problem all along.

I wish we could just agree that we both made mistakes, we both could have done better, and now we should focus on moving forward to build a better relationship. But I think she knows deep down what the source of the problems is, and she can't deal with the shame unless she blames me.

I face the same thing all the time, as recent as last night and it bothers me deeply.  She constantly blames me for everything and any comment from me not admitting she is right leads to an argument or her accusing me of being defensive.  Maybe I'm defensive because she is always on the offensive.  Last night things were going well and as usual, she throws in a couple comments about past issues when I was in Germany and at home with her and went to sleep at the office because of conflict she started that escalated.  I hate when she accuses me of cheating while I was stationed in Germany; however I was either at work or home the whole 2 years trying to make her feel comfortable.  When home, I was on the phone with her for hours daily when neither of us had anything to say.  Then she would get mad at that because I'm in another country and giving her boring conversation.  How can I have anything to talk about when I go to work and go home?  I couldn't even go to the gym on the weekends because she had a problem with that and blew up.  I felt like I was on house arrest.

So she tells me how happy she is that I listened to her the other day when she was saying I'm always defensive.  I just try not to say anything but It's killing me inside because every situation she blames me for, she played a role in it.  But she never acknowledges any wrongdoing on her part.  Only that she is the perfect wife who is hanging in there with a mean, heartless and evil coward.  These are just a few of the things she's said to describe me.  Believe me, she's called me every name in the book!

[Ceruleanblue]

Blame and being judged seem to be a common theme for those with BPD. They don't want to take a good hard look at their own behaviors, it's just easier to blame us. I've done a few things I shouldn't have in reaction to some of the craziness I've had to deal with from him, the difference is that I own it, and don't blame him for what I did. If I did it, I'll own it. I don't say "well, you did that, and that made me do it". That to me, is classic projection, and not taking personal responsibility, and I deal with that all the time from BPDh. It drives me crazy.

I think I've read that they blame because they feel shame, and they can't face their shame? I haven't quite reasoned that out yet, but maybe it's true. I certainly think they don't like to face facts or deal in reality a lot of times. Or they'll twist facts or truths to suit them. Another thing I find hard to live with. BPDh will often say he didn't say something I KNOW he said. Or he'll twist something I say, and make it into something else.

I'm trying to get to the point where the blame and the constant negativity just roll off me like water off a duck's back.

[LivingWBPDWife]

@thisagain,

Your post literally sounds like I wrote it! This is EXACTLY my life for 6 years, and tonight is the same. She does something that is completely out of line and irrational triggered by something that is utterly harmless. Then I have to decide do I say I am sorry, when 99% of the time, I am not sure what she is raging about and hurt about.

Or do I start asking questions? Which ALWAYS ends bad.

Its like a paradox, and I am really realizing we simply have to take the blame for everything, else there will be constant conflict. My goal is to some day get her to realize she is BPD and seek help. But, its very hard for me to be the bad guy and the reason for everything bad in her life when in fact, I am NOT. But, I am thinking that maybe if I validate that I am the reason why everything is wrong in her life (which ironically her life is like a sail on a cool lake from the outside) and then she finds someone, or something ELSE is also the reason that everything is wrong with her life, then maybe she might be open in that moment to seek help.

For example, I feel like if I can get her to just watch a few videos posted by BPDs that are in recovery or at least KNOW they are BPD, she might relate and have an epiphany.

Anyway, letting it roll off your back is VERY hard, I am trying to, but sometimes, I just can't take it - like tonight, I mentioned that I wanted to buy new cookware, we have a new baby, we are 100% organic, and our cookware is all scratched, etc. and not safe. Anyway, this was HER IDEA months ago, and I said, I TOTALLY agree, the moment I get money to do this and the time to research the coatings, etc. we will get it -- anyway, all I did was tell her about this today, and she exploded, insulted me, said I was crazy, obsessive, and "ghetto" -- I am like I am ghetto because I do NOT want to eat teflon and paint? It literally made no sense to me, so I responded, argued back, and tried to remind her this was HER IDEA -- which she of course said "NO ITS NOT, I NEVER SAID THAT!" -- which DRIVES me nuts.

Now, right here -- I should have shut up and said:

"honey, your right, I understand this is upsetting you and I am sorry I upset you, your right".

And just walked away -- but, this is VERY HARD FOR ME TO DO ALL THE TIME.

So, again, she pouted all night, was mad all night, mean and hateful, and just went to bed mad as usual... .

[babyducks]

How do I respond to that kind of statement without impliedly agreeing that I used to treat her badly? I kind of want to stick up for myself somehow. It feels disrespectful to myself to let her think I agree that it was all my fault and I used to treat her badly. ... .

For me there's a big difference between treating her badly and not handling her BPD as well as I could... .

SET

SUPPORT... .  I absolutely understand why it would feel that way to you. 

EMPATHY... .  Looking at it from your point of view, I can see how things that were said and done were upsetting.  (notice the careful wording here)   

TRUTH... .  Still, (don't use the word but, it invalidates the previous two sentences)  Still I see things differently from my perspective,  I am glad we are coming closer together and want to keep doing that.   

You would need to put it in your own words of course... .

[ptilda]

I've been criticized on here for using this phrase, but it's straight out of the "Eggshells" book and it seems to be working: "I am unwilling to accept more than half of the blame for the condition of our relationship, or more than half the responsibility for fixing it. We are a team and this is OUR marriage. Together we can fix it." I added the last part, but that seems to help to validate him and reinforce that I'm FOR him.

I've actually gotten a lot of push back using the word "feel" as in "I understand it feels like . . ." because this is basically telling him that he's fabricating things in his mind (which he is, but not helpful to point out.)

My husband has gotten himself in so deep that he is convinced that divorce is the only way even though he doesn't want it. But it's the only way he can think to absolve himself of blame and shame.

[babyducks]

Ptilda has a good point.   What gets tossed around here are suggestions.   Only suggestions.

You should incorporate your feelings and your knowledge of what makes your partner tick when you frame your message.

What ever you say,  you should be able to say it with complete sincerity and no funny after taste .

A SET or a PUVAS really should convey your message in a method most likely to be heard.  How she receives it is up to her.

[Ceruleanblue]

Ptilda:

I actually  just last night read in my BPDh's handouts from DBT where they suggest the use of "I" statements followed by "feel", as in "I feel ---, when you say this" or examples like that.

I'd say if what you are doing is getting results, that is what matters. Even though they have BPD, they still ideally need to own their own behaviors(ha ha), or at least we don't have to pick up the blame. Our MC has been stressing that a lot.

[dacoming]

@thisagain,

Your post literally sounds like I wrote it! This is EXACTLY my life for 6 years, and tonight is the same. She does something that is completely out of line and irrational triggered by something that is utterly harmless. Then I have to decide do I say I am sorry, when 99% of the time, I am not sure what she is raging about and hurt about.

Or do I start asking questions? Which ALWAYS ends bad.

Its like a paradox, and I am really realizing we simply have to take the blame for everything, else there will be constant conflict. My goal is to some day get her to realize she is BPD and seek help. But, its very hard for me to be the bad guy and the reason for everything bad in her life when in fact, I am NOT. But, I am thinking that maybe if I validate that I am the reason why everything is wrong in her life (which ironically her life is like a sail on a cool lake from the outside) and then she finds someone, or something ELSE is also the reason that everything is wrong with her life, then maybe she might be open in that moment to seek help.

For example, I feel like if I can get her to just watch a few videos posted by BPDs that are in recovery or at least KNOW they are BPD, she might relate and have an epiphany.

Anyway, letting it roll off your back is VERY hard, I am trying to, but sometimes, I just can't take it - like tonight, I mentioned that I wanted to buy new cookware, we have a new baby, we are 100% organic, and our cookware is all scratched, etc. and not safe. Anyway, this was HER IDEA months ago, and I said, I TOTALLY agree, the moment I get money to do this and the time to research the coatings, etc. we will get it -- anyway, all I did was tell her about this today, and she exploded, insulted me, said I was crazy, obsessive, and "ghetto" -- I am like I am ghetto because I do NOT want to eat teflon and paint? It literally made no sense to me, so I responded, argued back, and tried to remind her this was HER IDEA -- which she of course said "NO ITS NOT, I NEVER SAID THAT!" -- which DRIVES me nuts.

Now, right here -- I should have shut up and said:

"honey, your right, I understand this is upsetting you and I am sorry I upset you, your right".

And just walked away -- but, this is VERY HARD FOR ME TO DO ALL THE TIME.

So, again, she pouted all night, was mad all night, mean and hateful, and just went to bed mad as usual... .



I feel the same way.  Just the other day, we had a repairman, two of them, come by to give estimates on some repairs.  I asked her while the first guy was there if I was missing anything and the second guy I tried to tell her what he said needed to be done.  She was watching TV so she accused me of being mean and annoying to her on purpose when she was doing nothing to me.  She said she was going to come bother me when the game comes on since I disrespected her.  Finally, I gave in and told her I was being mean and inconsiderate and would not do it again.  She went on for a couple days throwing that up.  It KILLS me to always take the blame for everything, especially when she always puts a real bad spin on what happened.  Every time I'm made to look like a mean person who likes conflict and cannot take it when things are peaceful.  Projection at it's finest!  I try to avoid conflict to a fault. 

The next day, I went get our son something to eat from McDonald's.  The two nights prior, I went to the Shell Station one night and 7 Eleven the next to buy her cherry tootsie pops.  Each time, I bought the few they had.  She wanted more so I thought I would be nice and try to surprise her with some.  I went to two other stores and neither had any.  When I got home, I told my wife that I tried a couple more stores looking for the candy but they didn't have any.  She asked, ":)id they have any kind at all?"  I said no.  She then told me she just caught me in a lie and pulled out some she had just sent my daughter to buy at 7 Eleven.  She claims that I told her I went to 7 Eleven and said they didn't have any kind.  I tried to explain to her that I never said I went to 7 Eleven but two other stores.  By that time she had called the daughter in to involve her and kept cutting me off while I tried to explain.  I said I already knew 7 Eleven had the suckers but not the kind she always asks for.  Keep in mind I had just gone there late the previous night.  She asked why I didn't buy any other kind.  I told her because she always specifically ask for cherry which she disputed.  She called me a liar and kept coming to me arguing about it, each time with a different lie I supposedly told when explaining.  I got so frustrated and told her that we need to go our separate ways.  I can't take it anymore.  I slept upstairs and she slept in our room after she had come up to argue a few more times.  She went and told our daughter that I told her it was over.  Apparently my daughter told her she was upset at me because the whole thing was petty and I was making a drastic decision.  It's not drastic when you go through this type of thing on a regular basis for years and years.  A good gesture by me leads to this?  The next day we decided to give it some more time.