Struggling with the potential for a recycle.

[Depression = 72% of members]

I am really struggling with the anticipation of the recycle attempt.  No matter how prepared I am, it is going to shake me to my core.

I find myself ruminating on . . .

when it will happen

how it will happen

whether it will happen at all

whether it will be at a strong moment

whether it will be at a weak moment

if it is in person, if my ex will be able to smell my weakness

how I really feel about him

He only has one ex-girlfriend, and he confessed to wanting to recycle her.  He didn't say if he tried or not; I don't think he'd tell me if he tried and failed.  She was a married woman in a LDR with him on the Internet, and I am pretty sure that all of her contact information changed at the time of the breakup.

Intellectually, I know better than to go back.  I have been steeling myself with a list of reasons (and engaging the help of some good friends) to try to keep me from sliding back into the abyss.  I am pretty sure that my ex will attempt to recycle me in person, at some kind of gathering we're both invited to (there are many).  This makes it so much harder than just not returning a text or an e-mail.  My ex is very good at reading body language and will employ this against me, I'm sure.  When we were just friends, he said that he could discern my feelings for him by subtle hints I gave away.  Since part of me still has feelings for him, I'm afraid I'm going to sink like a stone.

Has anyone here survived an in-person recycle attempt?  Any tips or moral support?

[GreenEyedMonster]

I am really struggling with the anticipation of the recycle attempt.  No matter how prepared I am, it is going to shake me to my core.

I find myself ruminating on . . .

when it will happen

how it will happen

whether it will happen at all

whether it will be at a strong moment

whether it will be at a weak moment

if it is in person, if my ex will be able to smell my weakness

how I really feel about him

He only has one ex-girlfriend, and he confessed to wanting to recycle her.  He didn't say if he tried or not; I don't think he'd tell me if he tried and failed.  She was a married woman in a LDR with him on the Internet, and I am pretty sure that all of her contact information changed at the time of the breakup.

Intellectually, I know better than to go back.  I have been steeling myself with a list of reasons (and engaging the help of some good friends) to try to keep me from sliding back into the abyss.  I am pretty sure that my ex will attempt to recycle me in person, at some kind of gathering we're both invited to (there are many).  This makes it so much harder than just not returning a text or an e-mail.  My ex is very good at reading body language and will employ this against me, I'm sure.  When we were just friends, he said that he could discern my feelings for him by subtle hints I gave away.  Since part of me still has feelings for him, I'm afraid I'm going to sink like a stone.

Has anyone here survived an in-person recycle attempt?  Any tips or moral support?

[Dr56]

Haven't really faced a full-on recycle attempt blitz - mostly just very aggressive push/pull behavior. But the first time I met up with my stbx-wife after she moved out, I did get a load of, "I still love you/I have hope for our future/I miss you holding me/I'm not giving up on us/why aren't you fighting for me?/I need you with me in this painful time," etc, accompanied by attempts to embrace me, hold my hand and such.

It's definitely very rattling and upsetting when something like that happens, but it helps to prepare yourself in advance; seriously - gameplan if you know you must be around this person. Things I found useful:

- It helps to have a script. Write down your responses to things he may say or do. I practiced responses to things I suspected my wife might say or do, esp. "I still love you" and attempts at physical contact. Don't panic if they pull something you're not expecting.

- Try to be an observer, not a participant. This is hard as hell to do, but my T recommended it. Try and watch how he behaves, rather than reacting to him. Use the knowledge you've accumulated about BPD to study him in action - notice how he says things, the way he says them, how he's behaving, rather than dwelling on how what he's doing makes you feel. You can reflect on and react to your feelings after the encounter. Like I said, VERY challenging, but I find this gets slightly easier to implement at each meeting. (Will admit, hasn't kept me from losing it once or twice and getting defensive/upset!)

- Have an out. I always make sure to limit my interactions with my stbx to a brief time period, and I always make plans to meet someone else immediately after I know I'm going to see her.

- Let a friend know you're anxious about seeing your ex and ask them to keep an eye on you, if there's someone there you trust with that type of thing.

- Try to treat any encounter as welcome opportunity to practice defining and asserting your boundaries. It's good practice for life in general.

- Congratulate and reward yourself if you succeed!

[OnceConfused]

What's wrong with just NOT ANSWERING THE PHONE CALLS, THE TEXTS. EMAILs or FACEBOOK ?

The best is to avoid the very first contact, because you know you cannot handle the 2nd and the 3rd and the 4th ... .Don't let him take you there in the first place.

In my life, I have had the wrong idea of saying YES to too many things. I wanted to please everyone. For years, I said YES to this or that organizations and my own business suffered. Not until I learn the simple word, NO, I have become a much stronger person.

For example, I learn to say:

. NO to my wanting to watch too much TV, instead of talking or spending time with my family

. NO to too many cups of coffee. The smell of coffee brewing still attracts me much, but I say NO to pouring a coup

. NO to people wanting to be on the board of different organizations. I work on my business and my health, instead of other's people business and agenda.

. NO to buying new clothes and shoes while I have a full closet.

. NO to the abuse of my xBPDgf, and that allowed to leave her. Consequently, that allowed me to meet my now wife, who has given me so much love and happiness.

If you cannot say NO, then your problems will never go away.

NO is the most powerful word in your vocabulary. It will give you back your life, your mental stability, your happiness.

[Suspicious1]

GEM, I struggle with those thoughts too, as you know. 95% of the time I am fine, and "no" would be easy. I worry about an attempted recycle happening at a vulnerable time though, and like you I know it would cause emotional upheaval, even though I know "no" is the only answer.

The way I deal with it is through the knowledge that each day that passes makes me that teeny bit more immune, so instead of worry about "what if" and wondering how I'll deal with it, my motto is "every day a gift". It got me through the hell of the early days, knowing that each day gave me that bit more recovery and made a recycle attempt potentially less upsetting.

We share a social circle, so it's very likely that I'll bump into him in a pub at some point, at which time I'll be able to make small talk and pass the time of day. It's taken me a long time to get to this stage though - 15 months of "every day a gift". And yes, the fear still bites me in my times of vulnerability. Can't last forever though.

[GreenEyedMonster]

GEM, I struggle with those thoughts too, as you know. 95% of the time I am fine, and "no" would be easy. I worry about an attempted recycle happening at a vulnerable time though, and like you I know it would cause emotional upheaval, even though I know "no" is the only answer.

It sounds like we're very much in the same position.  I will run into mine at a bar or a house party, inevitably.  Sometimes I want to do it on purpose so that it happens on a "strong" day on my terms.  It's strange because the anxiety/anticipation of seeing him morphs into excitement somewhere in my brain, and I get all messed up.  I will be lucky if I ever stop being attracted to him.

Strangely enough, the hellish condition of his finances (and what he would likely to do mine) has been my rational "anchor" for the past few days, and I am holding on to that.  For some reason that particular issue snaps me out of my lovey-dovey feelings and into reality.  The thought of him destroying the tangible things I've earned is more disturbing than going through the spin cycle of the breakup again, but I hope that changes with time.

Dr56, thank you for all of those suggestions -- very helpful!

[Suspicious1]

It sounds like we're very much in the same position.  I will run into mine at a bar or a house party, inevitably.  Sometimes I want to do it on purpose so that it happens on a "strong" day on my terms.  It's strange because the anxiety/anticipation of seeing him morphs into excitement somewhere in my brain, and I get all messed up.  I will be lucky if I ever stop being attracted to him.

Yup, me too. I've considered it to get it out of the way and to make sure it's on my terms. When it happens, I'm hoping it will be like when you bump into any other ex and think "wow, what was I thinking?". That day will come. Like you, meeting socially is inevitable.

If the money thing is the thing that's keeping you protected at the moment, then hang onto it. If you're like me, the things that make me want to distance myself from him change periodically, but that may be because I'm processing each and every bad part of the relationship. I see it as my instincts keeping me safe. Hang onto it as it's keeping you strong.

[Pretty Woman]

Green Eyed,

  I answered the fishing texts. I went back several times for more abuse... .

as a survivor I will repeat what many have posted before me... .

It does NOT get better. Each attempt drags you further down the rabbit hole. Mentally, emotionally, physically. It takes a great toll on your overall health.

I wonder the same thing you do. Will she actually try again? Does she have the balls? Right now she is mirroring my replacement? What happens if that mirror starts to crack? Will she move on to another or will she attempt to recycle me?

She lives a 2min drive from me. We shared a dog. Will she use the dog to try to get to me?

We can think about and analyse all we want. These are all "what if's". What I know for certain... .

I won't fall for it again.I cannot with a clear concience and love for all the good, supportive, loving people around me, do this again.

The best thing I did was tell everyone in my life what was happening as it happened. Some would say I was too forthright with my relationship and let everyone into our business.

Maybe I did. Maybe it made me look weak that I stayed. I'm sure it did. All I know is it made me accountable. Over thirty mutual friends have defected from her over the last month. I did NOT ask them to do this. I would lose almost every friend I have... .every loyal, loving life long friend if I even considered going back.

I am not willing to do that, esp given the track history of her leaving many, many times. She didn't respect me.

But many people do. THOSE are the important ones.

You need to step back and look at yourself. Your life.  Why do you want someone who left you so callously? This is a person incapable of giving and receiving love. This is ingrained in him. It won't change or get better.

You are capable of love... .both giving and receiving it.

If you are like me, you probably worry about him. He is a survivor. This is a defense mechanism he has been using since he was little. He will survive. Don't let him drag down that hole again. Please. I know what you are going through and I empathize. It does get better but you need to stay NC. That is the key. Any contact and you will be right back to square one... .repeating Groundhog Day all over again.

PW

 

[nowwhatz]

Easier said than done I know, believe me, but extended NC is the only way to avoid a recycle... .at least for me.

I feared it, anticipated it, wanted it, hated it, and even predicted the exact date my last recycle began.

I feel for you and understand how difficult it is.

[GreenEyedMonster]

Thank you all for your encouragement.

I know that he can't offer me what I need.  I lost 10lbs and had hair falling out in clumps by the end of this.  I, too, am hoping that friends who know the gory details will hold me accountable.  I hated sharing some of the things I did, but I knew that if I shared those things, it would provide a disincentive for getting involved again.  Generally speaking, I am trying to raise the stakes beyond my own tolerance for the situation.

I still have moments when I miss him.  And I still have moments when I think the breakup was my fault, even though the situation was not sustainable.  Sure, I lost my temper at him at the end, but that was a long time coming. 

I don't consider myself codependent, which I guess is a good start.  This guy's problems overwhelm me and the "caretaking" aspect of the relationship holds zero appeal for me.  It didn't seem like that at the beginning, but quickly became more than I could handle.

I don't detach from people very well.  There are people I knew 15 years ago in high school for whom I can still find feelings.  My brain gets it, but my heart is following slowly.  And tripping and falling in the gutter sometimes too.

I've been spending a lot of time trying to remember who I was before this, because even my memories and tastes were warped by my fear of offending my exBPD. 

[hopealways]

The hardest part of the recycle is when they once again disappear. Only you have the power to stop that. Understand, as hard as it is, that their mind lacks empathy, and they are incapable of love.

[SGraham]

GEM, I struggle with those thoughts too, as you know. 95% of the time I am fine, and "no" would be easy. I worry about an attempted recycle happening at a vulnerable time though, and like you I know it would cause emotional upheaval, even though I know "no" is the only answer.

It sounds like we're very much in the same position.  I will run into mine at a bar or a house party, inevitably.  Sometimes I want to do it on purpose so that it happens on a "strong" day on my terms.  It's strange because the anxiety/anticipation of seeing him morphs into excitement somewhere in my brain, and I get all messed up.  I will be lucky if I ever stop being attracted to him.

Strangely enough, the hellish condition of his finances (and what he would likely to do mine) has been my rational "anchor" for the past few days, and I am holding on to that.  For some reason that particular issue snaps me out of my lovey-dovey feelings and into reality.  The thought of him destroying the tangible things I've earned is more disturbing than going through the spin cycle of the breakup again, but I hope that changes with time.

Dr56, thank you for all of those suggestions -- very helpful!

I think what you said about the finances being an anchor is really important. I have a sort of arsenal of unshakable ideas i keep around in case i get weak or my ex tries to contact me.

[GreenEyedMonster]

I already got the strange letter from my ex, which despite saying he never wanted to contact me again, seemed to have a subtext that he really wanted me to.  The letter was full of false accusations and was written like a challenge in a couple ways.  I am not sure if this is the I hate you/don't leave me thing or if it's me in the denial phase of grief.  He also has made no provision for me to return a very valuable item of his I still have, almost as if he wishes I'd do it myself. 

I was reading a lot on the board yesterday and learned that often reengagement attempts aren't what you'd expect, so I'd call the letter a fishing expedition.  Am I right?  I would have never seen something like that coming if not for this website.  Reengagement with more hostility seems counterintuitive to me, but I can see how it might reflect his inner conflict between engulfment and abandonment.  Hmmm.

[Pretty Woman]

They are very sly with the fishing. Mine sent me an email from the same date only a year prior. All that was in the header was "?"

It was a lame attempt but I fell for it. I responded, ? and she says, "Oh my email did a strange dump from last year. How are you doing?" Sure enough we re-engaged in conversation and two weeks later we were back together.  This was 2mo after she cut me off cold and told me she wanted nothing to do with me ever again, that I was unhealthy for her life and un-trustworthy. Changed her number, blocked me on FB... .the whole nine yards.

This after SHE cheated on me.

The person she cheated on me with didn't work out and her new match.com interest had Herpes so I guess I was the next best choice.


Anything can be a potential re-engagement. Your situation sounds like he is looking for a reaction because you aren't giving him one. Keep NC Green Eyed. I would hate to see you sucked back in. You've come a long way baby!

PW

[Sadly]

Hey Gem

if you want the reality read seangs latest post. Bless you all.   

[Dr56]

I was reading a lot on the board yesterday and learned that often reengagement attempts aren't what you'd expect, so I'd call the letter a fishing expedition.  Am I right? 

Yes, you likely are right.

Why contact someone to tell them you don't want to contact them? Why not just go quiet, and if you wound up contacting him, then he could ignore it, or tell you respectfully and gently at that stage that he wants to be complete NC? If social interactions are inevitable, then he has a horrible sense of boundaries if he thinks it's appropriate to tell you he doesn't want to be around you or contact you, when he may in fact see you again. I often wish I never had to hear even the tinniest peep from my stbx ever again, but since NC isn't going to be practical for a while yet, I don't tell her that. I certainly don't go and send her a list of (invented) things I can't stand about her. That would be inviting a response, and more contact . . .

My stbx will sometimes put things in emails like, "I think we need to stay in our separate corners and not see each other for a while." Then, when I don't respond, I get follow up messages along the lines of ":)id you get my email? Are you going to respond?", or texts saying she's in the neighbourhood and needs to meet up about something.

[GreenEyedMonster]

He apparently thinks I am trying to get third parties to "manipulate" him back into the relationship.  I did talk to some mutual friends, and two of them chose to talk to him against my wishes.  I can see why he'd assume that I told them to, but I didn't in either case.  But again, why react to this?  Why not just tell the friends that you've made your decision and let word get back to me?  Why set me up to defend myself for something he might even know I didn't do?  Why set me up to defend myself at all?  Weird.

He also sent it from a false return address.  I have an advanced degree in a field where we often conduct things like public records searches, and he knows this.  Either he has forgotten what I'm really like, or that's a challenge.

[shatra]

Greeneyed wrote

When we were just friends, he said that he could discern my feelings for him by subtle hints I gave away.

---They are able to pick up vibes and hints very easily.

    Why the fake return address on the letter he sent you? Maybe he felt that if he sent it from his onw adddress you wouldn't open it?

---WHen you wrote that the reengangement attempts are often not what you'd expect, what does that mean? That they are not the traditional "I miss you and want to get back together?"  Or that a hostile contact or a neutral call with a question is actually a recycle attempt?

Shatra

[GreenEyedMonster]

Maybe he felt that if he sent it from his onw adddress you wouldn't open it?

---WHen you wrote that the reengangement attempts are often not what you'd expect, what does that mean? That they are not the traditional "I miss you and want to get back together?"  Or that a hostile contact or a neutral call with a question is actually a recycle attempt?

I don't think he was worried that I wouldn't open it.  I think he was worried that I would mail something back.  I have seen his driver's license, he is listed in the white pages, and he told me himself right where he lived, down to the block.  So it is strange to me that he would think that using a false return address would stop me.  Also, I can find pretty much anyone.  It was silly of him to do that, and insulting.  I wonder if he insulted me on purpose.

I think there is a distinction between re-engagement and recycling.  No, I do not think he is recycling me.  But I do think that he is trying to keep me engaged, because as much as his fear of engulfment was triggered, he doesn't want me to disappear entirely, either.  Continuing a hostile conversation is a way for him to stay aware of whether or not I am available to him, which I'm sure he would find reassuring even if he is currently feeling smothered.

[GreenEyedMonster]

I'm feeling the anticipation in my bones today.

Knowing how he acted in the past, a few weeks is how long it takes my ex to feel "in control" of a situation and lose interest in "winning."

I haven't contacted him in 23 days.  He hasn't contacted me in 12.  I've made a point of disappearing so that he can't imagine himself to be engaged in some dispute with me.  The things he was clinging to in order to anchor his identity are getting few and far between.  It's kind of like seeing a cloud on the horizon . . .