Why won't she let me go?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hello Leaving board,

I have been undecided for a long time but have basically decided to leave now... but I'm having a lot of trouble trying to break it off with my "kind of diagnosed but untreated" BPDw. It is completely doing my head in. We've been married for 11 years and they have been mostly awful, but in the last two years things have got worse. There is a massive back story but basically when I try to talk about how things are working out and we would both be happier if we break things off I just get a barrage of self pity, guilt, escalating behavior and non-stop talking that goes for hours and hours. In the end I just give in and say I'll keep trying and working at things even though my heart is not in it at all, and during the "conversation" I've lost my temper more than a few times and told her some pretty blunt stuff about how she behaves. She just repeats the same things over and over again and constantly asks "is that it then?, is that your final decision?" - yet even when told it is over she cannot let go at all. We have two kids age 9 and 11 and they are suffering because lately all we've been doing is fighting and my wife then stays in bed half the weekend (which is kind of a tactical move I think because then I have to look after the kids all day - which I love doing - but she rests up and prepares for another assault that night, ranting on until 2/3/4am when we both have to work the next day.

It's just terrible and it feels like there's nothing I can say or do to finish this horrible relationship. Maybe I just need to pack my bags and GTFO but I am not that keen to leave the kids or just abandon her since there is no doubt she will harass me relentlessly. I've tried being empathetic and supportive but I am just so frustrated. She has completely isolated herself from all family and most former friends and I am so tired of living in "conflict" with everyone.

[Zen80]

Hello Leaving board,

I have been undecided for a long time but have basically decided to leave now... but I'm having a lot of trouble trying to break it off with my "kind of diagnosed but untreated" BPDw. It is completely doing my head in. We've been married for 11 years and they have been mostly awful, but in the last two years things have got worse. There is a massive back story but basically when I try to talk about how things are working out and we would both be happier if we break things off I just get a barrage of self pity, guilt, escalating behavior and non-stop talking that goes for hours and hours. In the end I just give in and say I'll keep trying and working at things even though my heart is not in it at all, and during the "conversation" I've lost my temper more than a few times and told her some pretty blunt stuff about how she behaves. She just repeats the same things over and over again and constantly asks "is that it then?, is that your final decision?" - yet even when told it is over she cannot let go at all. We have two kids age 9 and 11 and they are suffering because lately all we've been doing is fighting and my wife then stays in bed half the weekend (which is kind of a tactical move I think because then I have to look after the kids all day - which I love doing - but she rests up and prepares for another assault that night, ranting on until 2/3/4am when we both have to work the next day.

It's just terrible and it feels like there's nothing I can say or do to finish this horrible relationship. Maybe I just need to pack my bags and GTFO but I am not that keen to leave the kids or just abandon her since there is no doubt she will harass me relentlessly. I've tried being empathetic and supportive but I am just so frustrated. She has completely isolated herself from all family and most former friends and I am so tired of living in "conflict" with everyone.

[OnceConfused]

Zen80:

Leaving a marriage is a tough decision esp. with the young kids involved.

Based on what you just wrote, I feel that you heart is almost gone out from this r.s. and you are just hanging there trying to patch it.

At this time I think you both are so much personally involved and biased such that you won't see the other person's perspective or willing to come half way somewhere. Have you sought help with a marital counselor to see if there is some common ground or way to rekindle the r.s again?

Also if you believe that she has BPD, then do you think she will go to some therapy? You should not be the one that tell her about BPD , leave that to the marital counselor.

Once you have exhausted the options and/or giving her different options to change, then just say , enough is enough and don't look back.

[Panda39]

Hi Zen80,

You might want to consult with a Lawyer in terms of what your leaving options are and what are the pros and cons of those options.  That way you can think about what makes the most sense in your situation. Nothing will be prefect (like your wife moving out and leaving the kids with you) but you can figure out what is the next best thing.

Just take things slow and keep what you are doing "under your hat". 

I was not married to someone with BPD I'm here because my SO has a uBPDxw. I was married to an alcoholic for 20 years that had some of the same dysfunctions that a BPD marriage can have and I can tell you what you describe is going on at your house is what was going on at my house.  Anytime we were together fighting, ex hiding out in the basement drunk (and/or passed out), me running the household and taking care of our son.  I always described it like I was taking care of 2 children my son and my husband   

It took me 20 years (at least 18 too many) to finally give up and decide I had to get out, that I literally couldn't live that way anymore.  Making the choice to leave was the hardest part (which is saying a lot because I had to live with my husband for a year after I told him I was leaving and six months after we were legally divorced waiting for our house to sell).  But I found after making the decision that in itself was somewhat freeing... .that I had begun to move from being stuck to moving forward.

The end of a marriage is not an easy thing even in the best of circumstances but sometimes it is the only way to live our lives to the fullest, and to help our children live their lives to the fullest.

Once divorced my son had a happy healthy mom again that was there for him in a more authentic way, because you see I had been depressed and not fully present for him for at least 2 years before that.  His dad lost his family (me and son), had another DUI, went to work drunk, was fired from his job and finally hit "rock bottom", got help and he has been sober for the last 3+ years.  So the divorce though difficult was the catalyst for all of us to walk away from the unhappiness and find something else.  I have never regretted leaving.

This is just 1 story everyone's experience is different and leaving someone with BPD has it's own set of complications. I will be honest here it will get most likely get worse before it gets better, but it can be done.


My advice is take it slow begin developing a plan and post your questions on the "Legal" board they can help you with strategies, information, and support.

Panda39

[Zen80]

Thanks guys. I have suggested quite a few times that a marriage counselor would be helpful but always receive the reply since basically everything is my fault, what good would going to see someone about this do? Now I don't think that I'm right about everything, but that doesn't mean that everything is my fault.

It is pretty unlikely that my wife would go to seek some professional help, although apparently she has been to a psychologist lately and also in the more recent past. She refuses to divulge any details about this whatsoever, and since she is quite prone to lying/inventing stories I have a hard time believing that she actually has. On top of this she has a fairly chronic fear of mental health professionals since she was arrested/sectioned a decade ago after acting out quite badly/histrionically. Even though she was only held in a hospital overnight and released the next day she has always seemed quite terrified of "going to see someone". She has never really shown much insight into what might be wrong, but I do see flashes of it from time to time. The psychiatrist at the hospital is the one who told me about BPD. There was never any follow up and she lied about who her general practicioner is so they wouldn't be sent a letter about the event.

It does feel like we are just kicking the can down the road a bit further after every argument/patch up. I've just been managing the situation for many years but it has all come to a head. It's my fault as well - she keeps asking do you love and are you still in love with me and I say yes, because I can't quite just turn my feelings for her completely off. Even when I said no, I'm not in love with you a few months ago she badgered me and acted out for a few hours until I told her I did.


She is a lawyer which makes divorce a bit hard... .but I really just don't care any more. I'm not particularly attached to anything apart from my kids, all my "personal" possessions could be packed into a trailer in about 20 minutes and everything else is just "stuff" to me. We both earn decent money and the rules in Australia are pretty clear on division of assets. 

[ScorpioLaw]

 This topic should be why YOU can't let go. I'm going to just bring up some thoughts.

Sounds like you're already burnt out. And because you've been with this woman for 11 years I'm not going to give advice I cannot give. Either should anyone else here, honestly. Just because this is a "support forum", doesn't mean anyone should support your reasons to quit a marriage... .I mean; you married her.

You're going to have to give some back story mate as long it might take - it's the right thing to do. How can anyone here possibly give you any advice not knowing? It would then be worthless... .Nothing... .

Because to me it sounds like she's still in love while you're looking to leave. (I'm not saying you aren't justified)

I say these things because of this.

  I'm a perfect guy until ___ starts hitting the fan and then I become something else. Oh man, when I know the end is coming I can totally turn too. And no one has ever accused me of being a dick without being justified. That's my Libra/Scorpio personality. I'll weigh the scales and then sting someone.

My ex switched on me in a day. Three hard years down the drain. At first I fought it, but once I realized the battle was over I switched over to an ass. (I do regret it). However she can't let go because five months later she's still left 90% of her stuff. She reads my messages but doesn't reply. So now I'm looking at myself to how to change this current situation.

Maybe your wife just knows it's the end as much as you do, and is reacting that way. Maybe you should look at your own actions. Communication is 80% body language and tone of voice. All of us can detect the slightest change in behavior with a long term partner. Maybe you've changed too and she's reacting the only way she knows how wether it's reasonable or not.

  Anyways, I'm just saying I'd be pretty aggravated and pissed too. If "is that it then" the worse you're getting the consider yourself lucky for totally disappointing your wife. Because that's definitely a female dissapointment phrase. I'm sure she's staring off with her arms crossed while doing it, probably shaking her leg. Because you're hurting her, while you're doing what you're doing.

Anyways I'm just saying. She seems like she's holding on for a reason, and it doesn't seem like it's about the bad emotions.(yet)

[29lost]

I know EXACTLY how you feel.  I am in the same situation as you.  I have been married 15yrs to my undiagnosed BPDw and have two kids 12,9. I knew I wanted to end things about 4 yrs ago but hung in for the kids.  looking back this was the wrong decision but I finally moved out 9 mo ago.  there was and still is a constant barrage to get me back into the relationship.  Remember one of the biggest fears of a BPD is abandonment and that is what she sees you are doing.  the constant talking is her way to keep you in the relationship. she will use all the FOG and charming tatics to keep you.  also expect negative advocates, family and friends to talk to you about working things out.  Don't listen to them if you are convinced you must leave the relationship.   No contact is the best way to go but I know it is hard with kids.  you want to see them all the time and she knows this.  she will use them to engage you as much as she can.

      like the previous poster said it's as much as YOU letting go as her.  you have to be strong enough to say no to her endless conversation and demands and set boundaries.  it's not easy I know as I have recycled some to old patterns with my wife because of my kids but I am determined to end it.  For you it sounds like you have had enough and want to end it.  I would suggest going no contact as much as possible and talking to a lawyer on separating.  best of luck.

ps.  if you made up your mind to leave I would not do marriage counseling.  I did this and it's another voice the spouce uses to try and change your mind.

[Zen80]

It's fair enough that you ask for a bit of back story but really it is just fairly classic BPD stuff. Early on in the relationship she was really really into me and to be honest I was into her. I was your usual mid-20's male, happy to kind of bumble along and be interested in cars/music/friends with some vague plans for the future. My future had very set plans as to what she wanted (and it turns out what she wanted me to be) and I ended up just going along with that. But after a year or so she began trying to cut off my friends and family, and trying to control what I do at a higher level.  It started over some fairly minor things but ended up with her demanding I choose between my family and her. So I chose her and didn't talk to my parents or family for years. Then I had a kind of vague plan of marrying her but she wanted action sooner and basically demanded I propose to her sooner than I had planned. We'd had many epic arguments by this stage but I was always the one to calm things down, apologise profusely and get on with it. She was threatening to leave me fairly regularly then and even after three weeks after I proposed she was upset about something else (having to spend money on my car probably) and came around to trash my apartment, throwing my stuff all over the place (including into the neighbours, try and cut me with her car keys then running off down the road meaning I had to chase her blocks and blocks until she calmed down. In hindsight this was a major warning sign that I was too stubborn to see. It turned out she was pregnant soon after that, and we bought the marriage plans forward so she wasn't showing when we got married.

The marriage planning was very stressful for her - at one stage she had a complete rage attack at her mother (who had spent some money on a bridesmaids dress for my wife's sister) and was kicking and screaming, throwing plates and trying to attack her. I had to restrain her from belting her mother on that occasion but she did manage to kick her a few times.

Then the small wedding (no reception) went OK... .I had only invited my parents the night before. Honeymoon was a nightmare. I'll admit to doing a bit of avoiding her at times because all she wanted to talk about was how my mother was evil and what she said at the wedding to my mother-in-law (that my wife was lucky to have me).

Being pregnant made the raging and moods much much worse. We were living together but I was constantly being kicked out and made to sleep in my car overnight.

It's getting a bit rambly but I'll try and tidy this up later.

Cliffs notes are 14 years of moods, rages, physical assaults (I have quite a few scars from these), being spat on, had my possessions destroyed - all the high conflict relationship stuff, constantly being told she doesn't love me, only settled for me, doesn't feel the right way about me, doesn't feel like a mother to the kids (actually she can be a very good mother... .and an very terrible one sometimes), hates everyone, suicidal ideation, not wanting physical intimacy, wanting physical intimacy all the time and on it goes. Just a roll call of classic BPD behavior.

[OnceConfused]

WOW, what a horrible life story that you have had with your UBPDW. Having known some of the past behaviors from her, I can understand your wanting to GTFO. If it were me, I would have gone a long time ago.

Your acquiescence, to me, is very typical for the non who have stayed with BPD. I was the same way at first with xBPDgf. I chose to ignore (not just ignore but chose to) the early warning, and took all the abuses without a word back to her. The abuses escalated, until I was so confused enough to seek professional therapy. Then the veil of ignorance was lifted from me, and I began to see the future of pure headache with her unpredictable behaviors.

Toward the end of our r.s, as she was fishing for my replacement, sometime in front of my face, but she continued to sleep with me. One time she flirted with this guy on the road and let him pull her over for her phone number. It was just pure lunatic, especially on my part.

Good luck , my friend with all the decisions you will have to make for your own sanity and health.

May God give you the clarity of the mind.

[lovenature]

I am dealing with an uexBPDgf that lives across the street from me and won't leave me alone, I have tried NC and she keeps calling, banging on my door, will even walk into my house if the door is unlocked; it is all about them, and they don't respect boundaries. They want attention, either positive or negative, continuing drama, can't be alone and look inside because of the lack of self and shame.

I can't give you advice on your marriage situation (have you looked at the legal, and parenting boards here?), but one thing I do have experience in is how damaging the constant fighting is on your children; it may not be visible like a bloody wound, but the long term emotional/mental damage can be severe, even affecting their future; possibly ending up in a BPD relationship and staying far too long.

I hope you can find the peace you need, I know I am still desperately trying.

[Zen80]

After another fairly torrid weekend (well half of one anyway, the first part was OK) I have kind of understood something. It's not so much about why can't she let me go, it's why can't I let her go. I've had plenty of opportunity to say no, it's over, I don't love you any more but I've always pulled back from the brink (or gone over it and apologized the next day). I think of the kids growing up with separated parents and I think of losing the family home (which to be honest I am past the point of caring about now) and I think that I'll just have to deal with the craziness for another 9 years anyway and maybe it's better to be inside the tent pi$$ing out than outside the tent pi$$ing in (to steal an LBJ quote). Obviously I just cant let her go, otherwise I'd be immune to the fear, obligation and guilt that she constantly produces to manipulate and control the situation. I should be able to say no, that's enough, it really is over but then I keep suckering myself into apologizing, trying to patch things up and making promises that my heart really isn't in. She is probably getting as confused from that as I am from the constant push-pull, where she hates me and can't stand me but then is desperate for me to stay and somehow live up to all her ideals. So I am torn between trying to do that and achieve this utopian state of permanent happiness and accepting that no matter what I do, there will always be something else I didn't do, that there is no top to this mountain, just another cliff to climb. 

On the bright side she's not been unfaithful (that I know of anyway) - possibly because of a lack of opportunity or because she knows I'll leave her. That is a complete boundary for me.

But I think my resentment and anger is just boiling up much too frequently these days and is constantly simmering below the surface. I get frustrated very quickly during an argument and let slip a bit of tell it like it is. Being BPD she "remembers" everything (even the bits I didn't say!) and uses it to feed the self-pitying monologues during these arguments. I called her a bully the other day - saying she bullies people into doing what she wants, and if they won't be bullied then she cuts them out of her life. So now I get the 'well I'm just a bully aren't I" bits chucked in as well.

The sad thing is that she KNOWS there is something wrong - during a prolonged self-pitying bit last night she started claiming that there is something wrong with her, something missing or broken that happened in her childhood and that's why she doesn't have anyone in her life to look after her. A more balanced view might put it that she drives everyone away as soon as they make a mistake, don't meet her expectations and don't do what she wants which makes for a very narrow field of candidates for friendship and companionship, but all the same I think she does have the odd bit of insight into the fact there is something not right about her behavior and emotional regulation.

[lovenature]

What a pwBPD says/does depends on their current emotion of the moment, and as you know, it can change by the minute. My uBPDexgf cried and told me she was going to get help, that she wanted to get better after an incident that happened almost 2 1/2 years ago; it wasn't long before she blamed others for causing her to behave the way she did, hasn't got the right help to this day, and only gotten worse.

[rotiroti]

It's not so much about why can't she let me go, it's why can't I let her go.

wow, I got the chills reading that! That was the moment when I found the courage to walk away from all of it -- in the end it was up to us (the nons) to be able to walk away

[Zen80]

Well this continues to lurch from disaster to disaster to catastrophe.

The last few months have been pretty terrible and the last month has been tremendously bad. It started when I got home from a work trip to find that whilst I was away the home iPad (on the same apple I.D as my work phone) mysteriously had the "messages" switched back on and my BPDw read the last few days of messages - some of them were to a female work colleague who I've friendly/chatty with both not in the least romantic, plus they work 2000km away most of the time. I hadn't told my BPDw about this (or most of my work stuff) and she has taken it completely the wrong way. I do agree that I had done the wrong thing though and should have told her about new friends etc. So she confiscated my phone (technically my work phone) and for the initial week that she had it combed through it all and realized that I had been keeping my life fairly well compartmentalized from her which involved affair amount of secrecy and deception.

This was all pretty bad for me to do - I had basically kept her segregated from the parts of my live that I wanted to preserve and keep safe from the BPD chaos. So there were a lot of rages and usual stuff and she basically hasn't eaten for 4 weeks, spends every weekend in bed (during the day at least, leaving all night free to carry on) and keeps demanding more and more promises plus admissions that I had an "emotional affair" with this woman, have been "emotionally abusive" towards my wife and so on. She keeps on about my needing to come to her "in a loving and heartfelt way" and agreeing to change everything and make everything better instantaneously. A couple of marriage counseling session have been complete disasters, I cannot say anything at all and if I do say something that is at odds with her perception she launches into a controlled rage for the rest of the hour.

I have absolutely had enough and am desperate to leave but have issues with how to look after the kids (I'd be very happy to be a single dad but I can't leave them with her) plus she constantly threatens my work and will pull out all stops to get me fired. She has a bit of dirt on me from way back and claims to have more "evidence" from my phone of unprofessional behavior etc. Which is not real but I don't want /need the HR investigations and to have my reputation tarnished further - it's been battered enough by not being able to go to work some days and not being contactable on my phone.

On top of this I have to try very hard not to lose my temper because I'm so frustrated and annoyed (I'm not a violent person) - she knows this so constantly baits me with the blackmail about my work or claiming that asll I needed to do is this or that - when I do it, then it's not good enough and I should have done more. It's pretty hard to come to someone in  heartfelt way when you cannot stand them any more. I have put myself in the hole though because I've made all these declarations of love which I don't actually feel in order to keep the peace  - so I kind of blame myself for her believing those. She has been very strident that she doesn't love me or trust me and cannot stand to look at me... .but when I try to leave she will not let me go. I can't even leave a room much less the house without a thermonuclear rage explosion.

[Zen80]

Last night I had just had enough and told her flat out that no, I wouldn't marry her again (she'd read somewhere that a way to rebuild trust is to tell the betrayed person that you will always love and would marry them again in a heartbeat) and no, I wasn't in love with her. I said these in a really clear, calm, coolheaded way and thought maybe they would sink in. But it didn't, it was just a cue for hours of her begging me to take it back and simultaneously demanding that I be loving towards her or guilting me with the revelations that she used to be on anti-depressants all through university, but stopped taking them after she met me because I made her feel so good. This is the first and only time I've heard the anti-depressant story (and I don't really believe it). I felt sorry for her after that and she agreed that she should go to the doctor and get some help for how she was feeling, that I would go with her  for support and hopefully get a referring to a psychologist. On this basis I tried to make things up to her.

Three hours later she was back to refusing to go to the doctor and claiming that there is nothing wrong with her and that it's all a relationship problem that I need to fix (as it is completely my fault). We went to separate beds at 1am this morning, she was then up at 4am banging around pretending to get ready for work (she starts at 9am) and basically attention-seeking so I would get up and tend to her. which I did but I was so annoyed and furious it wasn't much help.

At least she manages to keep working (she is extremely intelligent and high functioning) and has kept this job for 2 and a half years. 

I think that if I am to go I will just need to pack my bags and GTFO. Trying to reason or explain is a wasted exercise, and she will say anything just to keep me there.