Dysregulating at night

[Jk416]

Omg! Things have been great for the past couple of months. Sunday I felt the dysregulation coming on. My uBPDbf tends to get quiet and seem more distant. And sure enough I was right. He's been waking up early every morning, so when we talk at night he starts to get sleepy and that's when "it" starts: the insults, the threatening to leave, things aren't working for him, I'm doing everything wrong, etc. And then the next day, everything is fine again. Even though I know this is what is going to happen, it makes me want to scream. I just can't make myself understand how the night before you had a laundry list of all the reasons we shouldn't be together and today we're back in love and perfect. Blows my mind. Does anyone else have this experience with your BPD SO when he/she is sleepy?

I've been reading a lot on this site and it has been so helpful. The tools have really worked. I'm just not quite sure how to handle this one. One night I said he sounded tired, to try to end the conversation before it went south, but he told me he wasn't tired. Then admitted the next morning he went to sleep right after we got off the phone because he was soo tired. What? If I suggest we get off the phone so that he can rest, that turns into "so you can talk to somebody else?" or "you don't want to talk to me anymore, that's fine." No, I don't want you talking crazy to me because you're sleepy... .but you can't say that to someone with BPD. I know better. However, I'm not sure what exactly to say to avoid this. Not talking at night won't help. I enjoy talking to him before bed and he expects it. But I can't keep going to sleep with all that negativity being dumped on me. Any advice?

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[an0ught]

Hi Jk416,

good to hear that you are studying the tools and applying them regularly. Their effect is cumulative on the receiving side and the use is cumulative as it builds skills.

For better of worse our partners are having long established patterns of extreme emotions. We can do a lot to stabilize the situation, limit extremes through boundaries and avoid invalidating them. However there are biological (inherited or deeply embedded behavior/thought/emotional patterns) that won't change over night. Some may never change. Most if not all can be managed by the pwBPD with proper training e.g. DBT. But they are there. The way I measure progress is the frequency of the blow-ups, the duration of the blow-ups are decreasing and the extreme boundary transgressions go away.

to try to end the conversation before it went south, but he told me he wasn't tired. Then admitted the next morning he went to sleep right after we got off the phone because he was soo tired. What?

The ability of reading emotions and properly reacting to them is impaired. Not understanding own emotions is part of the problem. Probably he was cranky and aggressive - well known from children beyond bed time. You ask them whether they are tired and of course they are not.

However, I'm not sure what exactly to say to avoid this. Not talking at night won't help. I enjoy talking to him before bed and he expects it. But I can't keep going to sleep with all that negativity being dumped on me. Any advice?

Learn to validate negative emotions. When you do that they don't touch you so much and he won't be so motivated to express them stronger and stronger. Keep in mind that validation only goes so far and there are limits what you can bear. Learn to say no and if that is not hear learn to hang up. In the end he needs to learn to cope with his negative emotions. Boundaries are your friend - spend some time on the related workshops.

[Jk416]

Thanks an0ught! It's going to take time and discipline on my part, I know. I made the mistake of not setting boundaries early on, and it's a lot mor difficult doing a year into this. But I know not impossible. He's not hanging up on me anymore or blocking my number. That's a huge hurdle we jumped over because he was doing that a lot. Not tolerating that was probably the first boundary I set. It was scary, but it seems to have worked. We have both made a lot of progress. I'm on here quite a bit and have been in therapy since November. He is talking more and more about seeing his own therapist. Thank God!

And sure enough, after he was done silently pouting all day. He finally called and seemed fine. Like last night didn't even happen. Like he didn't tell me he wants to miss me for a while (aka not see each other). Now he's making plans for us to see each other this weekend. He also let me know that he's been stressed about some other things, which explains some of the behavior; however, it's still not ok.

I have to learn to depersonalize these attacks, which are VERY personal, so it's hard. People make these relationships work. I see that on here. So I'm hopeful! But this week was rough!

[LivingWBPDWife]

JK416,


First, if you try to rationalize your BPD, you will go nuts, they simply can't think rationally, at least the way we do, or under any kind of pressure. So, typically they are going to do and say things that don't make sense, and then 5 mins later, do a 180, and you are sitting there going what the hell? Don't ask WHY? It will just frustrate you. It just IS what they do.

Now, as far as the mood change at night, I think this is pretty common. BPDs need an energy source to drive their mood swings, and fantasies about us, as they get tired, they start running out of gas to create fictional worlds based on the past, future, and or distorted reality. In my case, my BPD wife has been starting in the morning by getting up and whether the baby wants to or not, she wakes her. I have given up trying to stop this, the baby could use another 1 hour of sleep sometimes, but I figure the emotional war that ensues isn't worth it.

Anyway, once my BPD is "awake" she has had all night to run the numbers on me, thinking, running thru invalidation scenarios, painting me black, and so forth. In essence, I feel like no matter how we go to bed, she basically has a whole internal conversation and by the time morning comes I have done 10000 things wrong to her, so as she wakes up, she feels empowered and wants to punish me (for things I didn't do, and don't exist usually).

So, this goes on for a few hours, she is just hateful and mean -- then in the afternoon, things can go either way, either she get more and more angry as other invalidations occur OR something validates her, or I do with a lucky shot, and she is sweet as can be. Its almost laughable -- I think to myself she is just Batsh$t crazy --

Now, as night comes, no matter what mood she has swung into (and we may have gone thru all of them 3-4 times in a day, happy, mad, sad, angry, etc.) -- Anyway, as night comes I DO notice a theme, she gets tired and simply can't keep running numbers in her mind, so she usually gives in an settles into depressed, sad, mood, but usually NOT angry, or at least not day time angry which is hateful.

But, I have a question for you, I can NOT get my BPD into therapy, she will only go to marriage counseling, and the counselor, knows she is BPD, so he more or less agrees with her and validates her crazy talk, this makes her feel better, but of course, its hard to take. I am still not convinced this is the right thing to do.

Many BPD therapists seem to agree, that all this validation while is may make it easier to live with them, is simply making things worst in the long run, and continues to erode their already broken ability to cope with normal emotions and regulate.

Either way, I do try validating as much as I can, and avoid validating "invalid" thoughts that are just nuts.

So, question is -- how did you get your BPD into even considering going a therapist? Does he admit he is BPD?

[an0ught]

And sure enough, after he was done silently pouting all day. He finally called and seemed fine. Like last night didn't even happen. Like he didn't tell me he wants to miss me for a while (aka not see each other). Now he's making plans for us to see each other this weekend. He also let me know that he's been stressed about some other things, which explains some of the behavior; however, it's still not ok.

It is great that he is opening up now and telling you some stuff in the background happened. Now he just has to learn to open up a little earlier... .

I have to learn to depersonalize these attacks, which are VERY personal, so it's hard. People make these relationships work. I see that on here. So I'm hopeful! But this week was rough!

They are shaped to make an impact and get you to react. And your upset reaction is validating him and makes him feel better. Not a fun role - essentially a convenient punching bag.

When it makes sense to validate (not abusive expression) then giving a strong validating response (going more to the extremes of how you usually express negative stuff) can build a track record with him getting the feedback he needs. When it is abusive and personal consistent boundaries are your friend. That builds a track record of him having to cope alone. He will learn eventually to stay within what is acceptable.

[Jk416]

LivingWBPD,

I have to laugh sometimes! Some of these behaviors are simply childish and I just have to laugh sometimes. Which in the beginning of our relationship only made him more angry. So now I wait until I'm alone to giggle at how crazy my life is. Laugh to keep from crying, I guess. But sometimes I do that too.

I am an extremely rational person! So sitting there during my bf's rants trying not to present the logical argument is so hard for me. But you're right, it usually does not work. They are unable to think rationally, especially when they are dysregulated. But he actually heard me the other night when I was explaining why I talk to him before making decisions, which he saw as me not thinking for myself. The next morning he actually apologized, which NEVER happens and said that he heard me. He just couldn't process what I was saying at the time because he was upset and tired. He understood why I ask for his input but would prefer if I go ahead and make my own decision then see how he feels about, we discuss, then I carry out the decision. This will probably change at some point because that's just how they are. I'm already prepared for him saying "well you already decided so why do you need my help?" I'm hip to the game now. They set us non's up regularly. But educating myself has helped tremendously.

I used to have the morning problem too. But that's when he went to bed late. So it still connects to him being tired.

My bf is uBPD. I worked in mental health for years, and he meets the criteria. He was in therapy many years ago for his sex addiction. He claims it didn't work, but he is much better now. And I don't think it was a true sex addiction. I think impulsive sex is just the risk-taking behavior associated with BPD. But I could be wrong. I've noticed that he doesn't feel the "urges" until I do something wrong, I'm not giving him enough attention, he wants to punish me, or whatever. There's usually a reason, and I just don't believe sex addicts need a reason. They feel that they have to and that's it. So that's the only reason he's been talking about seeing a therapist. He's tired of having random sex and he's afraid he will get a serious STD like AIDS. He knows something is wrong with him and wants to fix it, which is a great sign. I brought up BPD once and he told me I wasn't his f'in therapist and hung up. So we no longer discuss possible diagnosis. But he is willing to see someone now, I just hope it's somebody who can see through the bull. BPD is very hard to diagnosis because they are good liars. They create their reality and really buy into it. And get other people to buy into too. Only the people really close to them get to see the full picture. Lucky us... .

But I'm not going to get too excited until he actually goes. We have made a lot of progress. And from this site I have learned to celebrate the small victories. There's a long road ahead! With all that said, I can't be sure if it was anything I did to make him want to go to therapy. It may have helped that I've been seeing my own therapist and talk to him about how helpful it has been. When he brings up him seeing someone I say I think it's a great idea and that's it. I don't want him to feel that I'm pushing him because we all know how that goes.

Therapy doesn't typically work unless the person is ready to change. So be patient, hopefully your wife eventually gets there.