Called his bluff...

[Ceruleanblue]

Since BPDh trashed me up one side and down the other a few days ago, also stating he wanted a divorce, he's been ignoring me, and even sleeping in the spare room.

I've been keeping busy, doing my own thing, and I've already done all I can do to try for peace. He's mad because he wants to stay mad, so I got sick of it, and fixed myself up, and went out. He was very suspicious, as usual.

I went to a movie by myself, and I had a great time. Truly. No worrying about his moods, no having to get there way early, and also no sitting through all the credits. We do all this because we always do what HE wants. Tonight, I got to do what I want, and it felt great.

When I got home, he was okay until he found out I'd gone to a movie. He accused me of going with a guy, then he stormed off to the spare room. Now, I normally would have just left him to sulk, but I've had it with his ST, and punishing me. I was kind, but I laid it out there. How I'm sick of being the only one committed, and his kids and family, and HIM have been a lot to put up with, but I've hung on. That I'm sick of being the cheerleader when what he does is blame, criticize and want out.

I ended my speech with telling him I won't beg anymore, and that if he wants a divorce, just file. I'm done begging, and I deserve someone as committed as I am. I told him I try hard, I'm a good person, and I'll be fine without him. I think he was shocked. Then I walked out.

Miracle, of miracles, he marches his naked butt out of the spare room and right back in our bed while I was off to get the laundry downstairs. I act like it's no big deal he's back in bed(because I really meant all that I'd said), and he asks for a kiss, and goes to sleep.

I don't know how he'll be tomorrow, but I do know I've lost my fear of losing him. I hope that feeling is permanent.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[sweetheart]

Sometimes saying one time how we really feel matters.

The fear of loosing him is what keeps you stuck in the same patterns of relating, I really can understand that.

Even if you feel fearful, but do more things for yourself, you will start to feel different, I know I did. More centered.

I still feel scared and insecure from time to time, but I take it somewhere else, it no longer feeds any conflict.

You will be able to take it to your new T.

I'm glad you enjoyed your film with no credits. 

[Ceruleanblue]

I did enjoy my film with no credit watching after... . You know, the small things like that, I really don't mind doing for him. Watching credits after is a small thing, and I believe in compromise. It's just that I do so much compromising, and he does so little. I guess that is why I found it funny.

I'm well on my way to losing my fear of losing him. I really laid it out for him last night, in a matter of fact way, and he acted like he listened, but I know he tends to zone out, or run things I say through the crap filter installed in his brain. I'll seriously say something nice, lots of times, and he'll twist it into something ugly and not even what I said. THIS to me, is BPD. I've had a T once time suggest to us it's just bad communication, or male/female thinking. I don't buy that. If that was the case I'd have run into it in one of my previous relationships or 18 year marriage!

I'm pretty sure this is yet another phase, or he was just shocked into reacting to my TRUTH. I mean, how could he get over being so mad, resentful and blaming from one moment to the next? He does cycle, but I've never seen him do this. This was new in the four years I've known him.

All I know is that I am hoping there has been a shift. Even if there wasn't, I'm different. I have goals, and I've already been working on doing things I enjoy. I spend a LOT of time by myself, which is yet another reason I was like "why am I holding onto a marriage so hard, that doesn't even come close to meeting my needs, and I'm alone?".

He felt like the decision to stay married was solely his, and now he knows it isn't. I've developed a "go ahead and divorce me" attitude. Even with his BPD, in lots of ways, I felt lucky to have him, and sorry for him that he was so miserable. He didn't ask to have this. Well, that attitude kept me stuck. It's true he didn't ask to have it, but the same as I'm responsible for working on me, he's responsible for working on HIM.

Things have to get better, because they couldn't have gotten much worse. I feel good, and while I'll love him and treat him well, I've decided my focus and energy is going to be spend on ME. He was just a bottomless hole, and draining all my energy.

[MaroonLiquid]

All I know is that I am hoping there has been a shift. Even if there wasn't, I'm different. I have goals, and I've already been working on doing things I enjoy. I spend a LOT of time by myself, which is yet another reason I was like "why am I holding onto a marriage so hard, that doesn't even come close to meeting my needs, and I'm alone?".

I've been here CB.  I still go here sometimes.  Spending a lot of time by myself has been hard (at first), but now I enjoy it as it is my time to do what I want.  When I go to this place emotionally, I stay focused and just remind myself that my wife has never known "healthy".  She has never known a man or parent that loved her in spite of her faults or didn't want something from her for personal gain.  Right now, the ST I'm getting I know is not about me because I treat my wife well.  I treat our kids well and am a good father.  I'm there for her.  I'm there for the kids.  I can't help that she makes choices contrary to that on purpose.  That's her unhealthiness because she doesn't understand it.  It is foreign to her.  It is extremely sad, but it is what it is.  What I can do is be there for all of them the best way I know how.  Two weeks ago, I helped our son with driving and parallel parking.  The other day, our oldest daughter called and asked about a book for college that I had and we talked about college for a while.  It was awesome.  I can't do anything about the ST, but I can do the right things when the opportunity arises.

[Notwendy]

CB, I wonder how much your fear of losing him is impacting you. Sometimes, it seems he doesn't treat you the way you want him to, yet you put up with it, because you don't want to lose him.

This was a great first step- taking care of yourself. It seems it surprised him and resulted in a change in his behavior.

But the real prize is about you. You made a positive change for you.

While it is possible that someone with BPD can interpret this new behavior as "hurting them" in truth, you didn't do anything wrong. You went to the movies! You didn't go with someone else, do something terribly cruel. You did something you enjoyed.

I commend you for this first step! I hope you will keep it up for you, regardless of his reaction. He may not "like" this new change in you. There may be an extinction burst.

The more important thing is that you like this new change in you.

[sweetheart]

"All I know is that I am hoping there has been a shift"

It sounds like there has been a shift, but in you, not him. Keep your focus on you, your T, creating a life for yourself that moves the focus away from him.

If you find your focus creeping back toward your h or when you feel yourself ruminating about what he has or hasn't said, did or didn't do, or start to feel triggered into responding. Try shouting  STOP! really loudly in your head and then immediately create a thought or an image that is a positive memory for you to replace the negative ruminations. Keep the same thought/image each time this happens as a way of retraining your thinking so you can become more centered. Returning your focus each time to just you. It works for me.

Capitalising and building on the small things really helped me hold onto something that was just for me and it felt good.

[Ceruleanblue]

I'll try to do all of those things. I'm constantly running positive thoughts through my head. I believe our thoughts really effect our feelings and actions. It's just hard when he's criticized me, or I'm getting the ST, but I'm getting better at dealing with those too.

I guess my issue now it that for the last three months or so, I've been doing more and more of things that make ME happy, but it seems to have made me feel even more distant from him. He may be perfectly comfortable with that, but to ME, it doesn't feel like what I wanted in a marriage. If I just wanted to do everything alone, I wouldn't have gotten married. He only wants to do things with me that HE enjoys, like a football game party tonight. I didn't want to go(mostly because he smeared my reputation with these people when he'd left me, and I now feel uncomfortable), so I'm going to do something with my kids. He'll likely be mad, but that is his choice. I rarely skip out of opportunities to do something with him, but this wouldn't have felt good to ME, so I will.

I just have to see how this progresses, and if I feel a marriage where there are constant cycles of him painting me black, and giving me ST, and where I'm so often alone, is something I really want to stay on board for. I am happy doing things on my own, but it's like he now expects me to just always do that, except when it's something HE wants to do. And he's suspicious when I do things alone, and grills me with questions. I'm not a fan of that either.

All I know is that I'm going to do my very best to be happy, with or without him. I even told him that. I don't need him to be happy, but I would like him in my life, and that I'm going to do things that make me happy. I'm done hanging out for the ST. He blatantly ignores me, won't answer my questions, or respond when I say anything, and clearly just wants to do his own thing, I go off and do MINE... ..

I don't get why it bothers him, but it does, but he'll just have to get used to it. I've given up enough time and effort trying to keep him happy, and sacrificing my own happiness.

[jynx]

CB,  I think you did really well yesterday.  I hated those ST's.  I never knew what to do during them.  I didn't have any support then, and I mostly stayed home and was afraid to even move or breathe in my own home, because then that would start his "rage". 

I really think his "grilling" of you, was to make you feel afraid to do it again. 

After I got use to the "in-home ST's", I started to sit outside on the patio, bring my radio with me, did some gardening, came in did housework, just doing everything I would normally do, but I stayed out of his room, (the living room) where he was just laying on the couch, watching CNN, or a football game, with no sound.  See, I knew he was waiting to pounce on me.  I would cook, and just tell him that dinner was ready.  Said nothing else.  If he wanted to join me in eating dinner, he could.  If not he could heat it up later, or not. 

I had no one to talk to then, so again take what you can and leave the rest.  And again, I am divorced.

See,  I had this ST thing down, I even started to go out, go shopping, go to flower nurseries, visit my family.

He would eventually come around, and ask me to do something, and act like everything was "normal" for the last week.  He sometimes even apologized. 

Thing is, I thought I finally "won".  I didn't.

He just changed tactics.

His next tactic was the "running away from home"  and not answering his phone.  This made me frantic.  In the beginning, I would "blow-up" his phone with calls, and text that he would not respond to.  Remember here that I was married for a long time then to him.  I would then stop calling.  I started to do my own thing again.  I started to take better care of myself, and eat healthier again.  Wouldn't you know it, just like he had some kind of radar on me, he would show up again. 

Always be aware of the next tactic, and post here first for support. 

I always had a fear of being alone, or a fear that my marriage would fail.  That was the biggest thing that I had to work on.  I am not telling you to stay or to leave.  I think once I figured it out that I was "OK" just being me, I was able to detach more.  I was able to distance myself more from the new tactics that he would eventually use. 

[Cat Familiar]

Cerulean, I've been following your story for some time and I've yet to see any positives in your relationship. I'm curious about what makes you want to stay.

[Ceruleanblue]

I'm finally questioning if I do really want to stay. I'm sick of being the cheerleader and working on ME, so he can just be abusive. He's not always abusive, but it's seriously like every day at some point he's verbally abusive. It just happened again. There can be no discussion, or even just letting him know something, without him twisting it and taking it wrong. He gets upset because it's a choice.

I've told him if all he's going to do is be negative, and not work on us, then he can divorce me, or if he wants I'll file. I meant it too. I'm not perfect, and I've been working on my side of this, but he just changes tactics or keeps putting all blame on me. If I'm working so hard to not trigger him, and I'm working so hard using the tools, and I'm working on ME, it just can't all be my fault.

He still hasn't found a way to get around me just telling him to go ahead and divorce me then. I'm sure he will though, and I'll come here to see how I should react to that. I think I've temporarily stunned him. I don't think he thought I'd ever get to the place where his divorce threats didn't work. They worked for nearly four years... .

I'm starting to see it might be a blessing for ME.

[Cat Familiar]

I'm a list person. Writing things down helps me clarify things in my mind. You might want to try writing a list about your relationship in three columns on one piece of paper.

The first column is Positives about this relationship.

The second column is Neutrals about this relationship.

And the third column is Negatives about this relationship.

[Herodias]

Unfortunately for me, mine just got worse when I tried to help myself and do things for myself… Pushing the issues even more. They can be very scary. Mine would back off in the beginning- but like someone said earlier- they see it as hurting them.

[Ceruleanblue]

It's so funny. Before I hopped back on the computer, I was making a list in my head. Of things I don't like about our marriage, and things I do like. Maybe it would help to write it down, but I fear BPDh might find it, so I'll probably resort to emailing it to myself.

He's cycling to rapidly now, that I don't know how he'd going to react from one minute to the next. I went to Goodwill, to give him space, and because someone was coming over to drop off a computer to him. I was there quite a while, because I needed the time away, and they kept pushing stuff out, and I LOVE to thrift shop. I get home, and he asks if I'd only gone to Goodwill, to which I said yes. His next response was "where else did you go"?

I said I am really getting tired of being accused, and of you questioning me. He blew up, even though I was calm, and I start to ask him a question which would have been "why do you keep thinking I'm cheating?", or "why does everyone but me get the benefit of the doubt"? He disrespected me, said he didn't want to listen to me, and he left for a walk.

His family keeps telling me to stand up to him, that he didn't act this way with his previous wife(you know, the stabber/hammer slinger), but whenever I do so, even nicely, he just escalated. I've tried validation, I've tried giving him his own way, I've tried mildly standing up to him, NOTHING WORKS.

He's choosing to abuse me, and this to me seems beyond just BPD, or whatever he has going on.

It's time for me to seriously take stock.

[Herodias]

"His family keeps telling me to stand up to him, that he didn't act this way with his previous wife(you know, the stabber/hammer slinger), but whenever I do so, even nicely, he just escalated. I've tried validation, I've tried giving him his own way, I've tried mildly standing up to him, NOTHING WORKS."

This makes me wonder if they get worse as they go through r/s's and learn how to be more manipulative... .I wonder if he had you back down on disagreements in the beginning of the r/s? I wonder that if she really was firmer with him, that he decided he wouldn't let you get away with it like he did with his previous wife... ? Just a thought, I don't know. Mine got that way when he was finally done with me. Kept fighting with me and pushing me out the door. He knew I would leave if it was bad enough... .then he brought a woman to the house when I left! Accusing me of being the cheater. Not saying that's what is happening to you, but I read when they just don't like you anymore - you make their skin crawl... .It sounds horrible, but I think that's what happened to me and it could be why nothing works here. It stinks and I am sorry this is happening to you : (

[HappyNihilist]

    Ceruleanblue, I'm so sorry you've been having such a rough time.

You are understandably upset, hurt, and triggered. You feel betrayed. You are working on yourself, and you are trying to protect yourself, but he is not responding the way you need him to respond.

A big part of the reason he can't do that right now is this -

He's cycling to rapidly now, that I don't know how he'd going to react from one minute to the next.

He probably doesn't know how he's going to react from one minute to the next, either. That's part of being unable to self-regulate overwhelming emotions. He is very dysregulated - he stopped taking his medication - he is in no way going to be able to be consistent and reasonable right now.

One of you needs to be able to regulate and center yourself, or else you will both continue in this 'emotional survival' mode.

You have been doing such good, hard work on yourself.   It's only human to become overwhelmed and exhausted in the face of a BPD dysregulation.

But - before you can make anything better, you must stop making it worse. ========>

His family keeps telling me to stand up to him, that he didn't act this way with his previous wife(you know, the stabber/hammer slinger), but whenever I do so, even nicely, he just escalated. I've tried validation, I've tried giving him his own way, I've tried mildly standing up to him, NOTHING WORKS.

I would advise not trying to 'stand up to him' during an emotional dysregulation. This doesn't mean that you shouldn't enforce your boundaries (e.g., if he starts yelling, you can leave the room). Maybe it would help to focus more on taking care of yourself and defusing the situation - not feeling like you have to 'stand up to him.'

In previous emotionally charged interactions with him during his dysregulation, you've tried validation, giving in, standing up to him - Have you tried just removing yourself from the situation? Taking some time off to let both of you get back to more of an emotional baseline?

Have you looked at or revisited this workshop? It's very helpful for centering and self-care - TOOLS: Triggering, Mindfulness, and the Wise Mind

Take care of yourself. 

[AloneAtLast]

He's not always abusive, but it's seriously like every day at some point he's verbally abusive.

Uh... .that sounds like ALWAYS abusive.

[HappyNihilist]

He's not always abusive, but it's seriously like every day at some point he's verbally abusive.

Uh... .that sounds like ALWAYS abusive.

I could be wrong - it certainly wouldn't be the first time - but I took Cerulean to mean that her husband is not usually abusive, but in times of emotional dysregulation (like currently) he consistently displays a greater amount of abusive behavior.

If I misunderstood, I apologize, and please let me know.

Dealing with abusive behavior is so hard.   What might you be able to do to limit your exposure to this abusive behavior, Cerulean?

[Ceruleanblue]

There were three or four months where there wasn't verbal abuse daily, it was down to being what I'd call infrequent(probably a couple days a week). NOW it's every day. It stinks.

I've read the Verbally Abuse Relationship by Patricia Evans, and that pretty much explains the abuse(before we reconciled, there had also been a few instances of physical abuse). I'm knowledgeable about the subject, and my eyes are wide open, I just feel in a way, due to BPD, or something, that doesn't excuse it, but maybe makes it hard for him to control. I'd bet very few people that live with someone with BPD aren't verbally abused at times.

I'm trying to set boundaries, but they are small, and he still gets upset. I've tried being consistent, very consistent. He was used to me backing down, and I no longer am.

And I do believe he's cycling too rapidly into dysregulating for me to do a whole lot of standing up to him. I did the other night when I calmly told him to "go ahead and divorce me", but I'm sure that is NOT the sort of standing up to him his brother meant. I'm pretty sure his brother meant to let him have it, but I'm sure that would make him worse?

I'm trying to limit my exposure to it by going for walks, spending time with my kids, going shopping solo, and just doing things I enjoy.

[HappyNihilist]

Being the recipient of daily verbal abuse does stink. I'm so sorry. 

I've tried being consistent, very consistent. He was used to me backing down, and I no longer am.

Consistency is the key to strong boundaries. No matter how 'small' these first boundaries may seem to you, they are important - every step you take towards self-care and change is a great victory.

What do your boundaries look like right now?

If these are the 'small' boundaries, are there 'big' boundaries that you would like to have eventually? What might those look like?

And I do believe he's cycling too rapidly into dysregulating for me to do a whole lot of standing up to him. I did the other night when I calmly told him to "go ahead and divorce me", but I'm sure that is NOT the sort of standing up to him his brother meant. I'm pretty sure his brother meant to let him have it, but I'm sure that would make him worse?

My instinct would be that yes, 'letting him have it' would most likely make him worse.

You sound like you have a good understanding and feel for the situation and his emotional state. And you're using this as an opportunity to build and enforce your boundaries, and to reconnect with yourself. That's very positive.

I'm trying to limit my exposure to it by going for walks, spending time with my kids, going shopping solo, and just doing things I enjoy.

  These are all great ways to not only limit your exposure to his abusive behaviors, but also engage in self-care and do uplifting things for yourself. You deserve that 'you' time.

[Ysabel]

C,

If I wasn't so tired I would expound on how healthy you sound and congratulate you on this new paradigm shift! Suffice it to say, I have noticed that one general complaint that we all have on this board is that we are married, but have no marriage. There is a big difference between the two.

Y

[an0ught]

Hi Ceruleanblue,

congratulations to your progress. I think it is significant. Not really that you voiced it but that you moved to the point that you could feel and voice it. As with all boundaries it does not really matter that we tell - we need to believe and act consistently. When you said what you said he knew it is true based on your actions over the weeks before.

I'm pretty sure this is yet another phase, or he was just shocked into reacting to my TRUTH. I mean, how could he get over being so mad, resentful and blaming from one moment to the next? He does cycle, but I've never seen him do this. This was new in the four years I've known him.

All I know is that I am hoping there has been a shift. Even if there wasn't, I'm different. I have goals, and I've already been working on doing things I enjoy. I spend a LOT of time by myself, which is yet another reason I was like "why am I holding onto a marriage so hard, that doesn't even come close to meeting my needs, and I'm alone?".

He felt like the decision to stay married was solely his, and now he knows it isn't. I've developed a "go ahead and divorce me" attitude. Even with his BPD, in lots of ways, I felt lucky to have him, and sorry for him that he was so miserable. He didn't ask to have this. Well, that attitude kept me stuck. It's true he didn't ask to have it, but the same as I'm responsible for working on me, he's responsible for working on HIM.

Things have to get better, because they couldn't have gotten much worse. I feel good, and while I'll love him and treat him well, I've decided my focus and energy is going to be spend on ME. He was just a bottomless hole, and draining all my energy.

You helping yourself has positive impact on you. Him not resisting your help leaves the door open for him to spend that energy on doing something for himself eventually one hopes.

There is a necessary amount of boundaries and detachment we need to develop or in some sense re-gain to become healthy. But then there is also a point where we need to re-engage and reconnect in a different and healthier manner. You know that you don't want what you had in the past. Whatever you want in the future you probably need to lead the way.

When I was at a similar point I was thinking - I can't have a super close relationship with my wife sharing always everything and doing all together. Some of my instincts drove me to such a relationship - partly that would have been ok with some others but also partly codependency. My vision right now is a relationship of strong individuals. A relationship in which I am understood and appreciated. The latter required me to share more - our relationship was a lot based on her drama and I had closed down sharing to avoid triggering and to be less vulnerable. That took a while and in some sense is still ongoing. Still I think we understand today each other better than ever before.