Understanding self-harm

[maxsterling]

I've read and come to understand that self harm and suicide attempts are completely different things done for completely different reasons.  This helps me, because in the past I would equate self-harming as some sort of precursor to a suicide ideation or attempt.  And naturally, I would over-react. 

But in the realm of self-harming, is all self-harm equal in terms of thought/emotional process?  My wife was at one time a cutter, and a pretty serious one at that.  From my "observers" vantage point, I would rate cutting on the serious end of a hypothetical self harm spectrum, because it is something that could easily and quickly lead to hospitalization or death.  But my wife claims she considers overeating or acting out sexually as forms of self-harm and part of the same emotional pathway.   

I guess I am having a hard time wrapping my head around this.  My wife has not cut in years.  But are her other "self-harming" behaviors just as serious?  The reason I ask is that yesterday afternoon she punched herself so hard in the thighs that she bruised herself.  Part of me wants to be extremely concerned about this as an escalation of her behavior in a negative way, and the other part of me wants to accept it as part of a self-harm emotional cycle that I don't understand. 

My feeling here is that to some extent everyone self-harms at times to some degree by doing things not in our best interests, but of course few of us do it to this degree.  I'm also under the impression that those who self-harm tend to replace one form of self-harm with another.  Is this accurate?

Andy help here would be appreciated.

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[waverider]

My wife has given two reasons for it.

1 physical pain presents a focus point whereas emotional does not, so it is an attempt to transfer pain onto something tangible

2 lack of self worth means they feel as though they deserve to be punished

I am sure there are other reasons, and yes it is risky and could potentially turn fatal, but that is rarely the aim.

Not all self harm is physical either, and starts to blur into self sabotage

[waverider]

  I'm also under the impression that those who self-harm tend to replace one form of self-harm with another.  Is this accurate?

Yes this is why totally focusing on the specific activity often detracts from the main issue, even driving it more covert.

[maxsterling]

Waverider - interesting take.

It seems like my wife has a "need" to self harm in some way, as if life doesn't make sense without it.  But I never considered other things she may be doing as self-sabotage are tickling the same emotional pathway. 

Perhaps this new job of hers is a form of self harm. 

[Notwendy]

Perhaps this new job of hers is a form of self harm.


Max I am not clear what you mean by this. Taking on a job could add more stress to people's lives, but that does not make it self harm. In fact, working ( even part time) to earn a living is a very adult activity- a form of self care. It also enhances someone's self esteem and gives them a sense of accomplishments. Think about why people think it is a good thing for kids to have chores and possibly part time jobs as teens, even though their parents can and do support them? Because of the emotional, social and developmental benefits. There is a value in a young child earning a toy by saving allowance rather than have everything they want provided for them.

Are jobs always enjoyable and stress free? I would bet that nobody here who has ever had a job would say that. Sometimes we have things at work- difficult co-workers, frustrating clients, a stressful deadline- that makes us feel bonkers at the time. However, we do our jobs because they benefit us.

I think it is pretty well known that self harming behaviors can increase during times of stress, but the solution may not be to eliminate the stress, but to let the person learn how to deal with it. If our kids have a difficult homework assignment, do we step in and say " Oh sweetie, let mommy and daddy rescue you from this big bad homework- we will do it for you and then call the teacher to make sure she doesn't stress you. In fact, we may just keep you home from school so you don't have to be stressed" or is it better to say" yes, this is a hard assignment, I think you can do it. The teacher and I are here if you have questions, but we want you to try your best first".


My concern with your thinking that the job is a form of self harm Max, is that this may become a reason for her to quit or you to encourage her to quit instead of encouraging her to persevere. All she knows is how to fail at keeping a job and it is hard to know how this will go, but each time she quits, she can feel more like a failure and less able.

[maxsterling]

Wendy -

She seems to know that working stresses her out - any job.  She seems to think she is doomed to failure.  I wonder if subconsciously, she went back to work as a means of punishing herself, or simply having something to blame her miserable life on.  That's not to say that working a job is not self-care for most people, and could be for her.  It's the comments like, "See!  I told you this would happen!  it happens every time!"  or "this country sets us up to fail!" or "this is the worst state to work in!" that make me wonder.  Sometimes it feels like she wants to the job so that she has an excuse to be stressed out and complain. 

[waverider]

Wendy -

She seems to know that working stresses her out - any job.  She seems to think she is doomed to failure.  I wonder if subconsciously, she went back to work as a means of punishing herself, or simply having something to blame her miserable life on.  That's not to say that working a job is not self-care for most people, and could be for her.  It's the comments like, "See!  I told you this would happen!  it happens every time!"  or "this country sets us up to fail!" or "this is the worst state to work in!" that make me wonder.  Sometimes it feels like she wants to the job so that she has an excuse to be stressed out and complain.  

I think a lot of that has to do with a martyr & victim mentality together with blame shifting. Its not her fault its the worlds. More of a need to have something ,or someone, to blame for all their problems.

If it wasn't the job it would be something else stressing her out. If its not the boss/work colleagues, it would be the neighbours/storekeepers/ complete strangers in a queue.

What you are really asking is whether she is knowingly setting herself up for failure, rather than simply failing to learn from past failed expectations?  :)oes she deliberately sabotage her work environment or is it just a natural consequence of her dysfunctional behavior? I guess it comes down to intent rather than inability

[123Phoebe]

Sometimes it feels like she wants to the job so that she has an excuse to be stressed out and complain. 

Does she stress out and complain even when she's not working?

[maxsterling]

Sometimes it feels like she wants to the job so that she has an excuse to be stressed out and complain. 

Does she stress out and complain even when she's not working?

Yes.  But I think she may feel it is foolish - like she is stressing out over nothing. 

[maxsterling]

Wendy -

She seems to know that working stresses her out - any job.  She seems to think she is doomed to failure.  I wonder if subconsciously, she went back to work as a means of punishing herself, or simply having something to blame her miserable life on.  That's not to say that working a job is not self-care for most people, and could be for her.  It's the comments like, "See!  I told you this would happen!  it happens every time!"  or "this country sets us up to fail!" or "this is the worst state to work in!" that make me wonder.  Sometimes it feels like she wants to the job so that she has an excuse to be stressed out and complain.  

I think a lot of that has to do with a martyr & victim mentality together with blame shifting. Its not her fault its the worlds. More of a need to have something ,or someone, to blame for all their problems.

If it wasn't the job it would be something else stressing her out. If its not the boss/work colleagues, it would be the neighbours/storekeepers/ complete strangers in a queue.

What you are really asking is whether she is knowingly setting herself up for failure, rather than simply failing to learn from past failed expectations?  :)oes she deliberately sabotage her work environment or is it just a natural consequence of her dysfunctional behavior? I guess it comes down to intent rather than inability

I think this is my point.  I am starting to wonder if she is somewhat wanting to fail for the same reason she may want to cut.  She wants some reason to feel as crappy as she does.  Does this make sense?  In other words, she feels worthless and a failure, so she is going to make her life as difficult as possible so that she has a reason to feel that way.  If that was the case, is that a form of self-harm (is it following the same emotional pathway as if she was cutting?)

[waverider]

A lot will depend on the motivation and intent at the time of applying for a job.

Self harm is more about immediate need and result. I want to feel pain right now.

[maxsterling]

She applied and was hired immediately after a physical outburst in which I went to a friend's house for a few days.  It was an immediate reaction to my boundary enforcement.

[Notwendy]

It could be that the motivation for her applying for a job was some kind of reaction to the event. There is also the push pull/fear of abandonment. Most people don't like being dependent, but in a situation where she feels that you won't leave her if she is or that you would feel bad if you did ( seems heartless to leave someone who can not fend for themselves) then being dependent may be a sense of security. But regardless of the motivation : she got the job and that is a great accomplishment.

There is also fear and low self esteem. I see this in my mother. If she is cooking something she must ask me 20 questions along each step- is this pan OK? Should I use another one? Is the oven temperature OK? Does this need more salt? "It's fine mom" Are you sure it doesn't need more salt? "It's fine mom". I think I will add more salt "Ok Mom" Do you think there is too much salt in this?

It can get crazy making taking one step to the other. It is tempting to step in and just do it, but it is better to let her do it, even if it is scary for her. If I do it, it takes away any sense of accomplishment she would have.

It feels like chicken and egg. My mother grew up in the era where many married women did not work outside the home, and mom didn't work inside the home either. Yet, over the years she seemed to do less and less. I recall a time, when I was really little, that she would take me shopping with her on her own, or to see a movie. Once I reached adolescence, this stopped- would have been a normal stage for a teen to do more on her own, except that the less mom had to do, the less she did, and the result is that she lost confidence. I stopped asking for her input with anything early on.

When my kids were little and she was visiting, I asked her to help make lunch for them, and she lit up. I realized that she lit up because, she felt needed, she could contribute.  My dad wanted to keep my mother as stress free as possible, and he enlisted us as her caretakers. We all believed mom was not capable and that we had better not ask her to do things for us and she got the message that she was not capable ( she isn't high functioning, but she is still capable of more than we gave her credit for). We "cared" so much about her, we took any purpose or sense of achievement from her.


I think what I am trying to say Max, is that there are possible benefits in the long run to this job if your wife can keep it. I don't know if she can or not, or if she will self sabotage. I would encourage you to not get too involved in it- it is her job. She can learn to put her grades in the computer- you can show her how, but let her learn on her own. If you focus too much on this job, it can take away her sense of ownership- of any success or failure. You could let her vent if she wants to - but if you step in to help, fix, or analyze it, it will bring your relationship issues into the job and take the ownership of it from her. Although you are concerned about her, and care about her, focusing on her issues, her job, her behavior can take away her responsibility for it.