Boundary in regards to physical abuse...

[Ceruleanblue]

I need to set a boundary in regards to physical abuse. I've been being too lax in regards to it, I think because I feel it happens due to his mental disorder. I don't fear he'll really hurt me, or I'd leave. He doesn't really even seem sorry after it happens, although I'll get a halfhearted "sorry" later if I address it. He doesn't seem to have a sense of shame, or much conscience.

So because boundaries are about protecting US, how do I set a boundary in regards to this. Plus, do I tell him the boundary? I think that will just set him off, and anger him. Should this be a boundary that I just know I have, and what should that look like?

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[Turkish]

Hi CB,

What, specifically, has he done or what does he do? I only experienced two episodes of what qualfies as DV: the time she slammed the fridge door so hard that the door contents broke on the for and made a mess (I was holding our 8 month old son at the time, though luckily he was passed out--- that I let him fall asleep before his bath was the trigger: unacceptable), and another time she was mad at me and walked by the bed and smacked my bare leg in anger. Turn it around: legally, that qualifies as battery. If I had done the same, I know she would have reported me. Sure, I wasn't hurt, but it was a crime nonetheless.

Though I had evidence of her throwing things when I wasn't home, I never had anything thrown at me with the intent to cause harm. As a teen, my BPD mother did. Even if an object doesn't strike (thankfully, I had the reflexes to dodge injurous objects) the intent to cause harm is assault, still a crime.

Has either of these things happened? Maybe the can help for some perspective:

Duluth Model

I still struggle with this with regard to mental illnesses (my mom: BPD and Depression,.my Ex only clinically diagnosed with Depression):

Some simple questions are hard to answer.  I was thinking yesterday that I'm not sure I know what domestic violence is.  It's come up recently from a few members and I thought it might be helpful to talk about what it is and what it isn't in a general sense... .and what to do.

This was published on one public service site:

MYTH: Domestic violence is a "loss of control."

FACT: Violent behavior is a choice. Perpetrators use it to control their victims. Domestic violence is about batterers using their control, not losing their control.  Their actions are very deliberate.

    

MYTH: The victim is responsible for the violence because she provokes it.

FACT: No one asks to be abused. And no one deserves to be abused regardless of what they say or do.

    

MYTH: If the victim didn't like it, she would leave.

FACT: Victims do not like the abuse. They stay in the relationship for many reasons, including fear. Most do eventually leave.

    

MYTH: Batterers are violent in all their relationships

FACT: Batterers choose to be violent toward their partners in ways they would never consider treating other people.

    

MYTH: Alcohol/Drugs cause battering behavior.

FACT: Although many abusive partners also abuse alcohol and/or drugs, this is not the underlying cause of the battering.  Many batterers use alcohol/drugs as an excuse to explain their violence.[/size]

What's your limit or boundary, Ceruleanblue? If you communicate it clearly, are you willing to accept that he may ignore it in the future? If so, what then?

Turkish

[Ceruleanblue]

That's just it, I don't know what might be a correct boundary to set around this. I know boundaries are about ME, not about controlling him.

I can't even think of what a boundary I can set in regards to this. Calling police, will be the end of the marriage. To me, that would be a boundary, and it would be about ME, right? Well, I don't feel that is something I could do if I want to stay in this, and I do want to stay in this. I do not however, want to be physically abused. It's never been severe, but it's scary, and it's ugly. What's even scarier, is he does NOT have the remorse I've always heard a lot of abusers have after. In fact, he always blames ME afterwards. He always feels he was justified. It makes me sick. He won't just man up, and admit that he was wrong, or if he does briefly, the next day he's reworked it, and he's back to it being my fault.

I'm just confused as to how to set a boundary, other than just to leave if it happens again, and I really don't want to do that.

[HappyNihilist]

You're absolutely right, Ceruleanblue - boundaries are about taking care of yourself, not about controlling someone else. Setting a boundary is telling him what you will do if he violates that boundary.

A boundary around physical abuse could be - "I will leave the room/house if you try to touch me in anger."

Does this sound like a boundary you would be comfortable setting and enforcing?

The most important thing about boundaries is that you must be consistent with them. This will be harder at first, because it's natural for people to test boundaries. Usually the behavior gets worse temporarily, until you've proven that you are firm with your boundaries. These are called extinction bursts, and this article explains what to expect and why they happen - Extinction Bursts - Important to Understand when your Partner has BPD

When our partner doesn’t get the expected response (reinforcement by us) it may scare or anger them and they may try harder to  engage us using threats, violence, destruction, intimidation, name calling, belittling, promises of withholding necessary things, retaliation, or any other painful thing they can think of to get us to engage.   This escalation is know as an extinction burst.

This is OK, as long as we anticipate it, understand it, and are prepared for it.  The same is true for spontaneous recovery.

They won’t like this, but it is a necessary for them to experience and to learn to self sooth their own frustrations in life.  It is what will bring on the opportunity for change.

Setting and enforcing boundaries against abuse is the healthiest thing for both partners. I know it's hard to do when we're not used to good, firm boundaries. But the only way to get better at something is to do it and keep doing it.

Above all, take care of yourself. 

[Turkish]

My Ex's mother endured decades of abuse, but never called the authorities,.partly due to cultural reasons. Physical abuse hasn't happened in years. She tolerated it,.but it took decades to die down. Ths is probably not uncommon.

He's blaming you, when the blame (and shame) falls squarely on him. You don't want to report him (because that's kind of like crossing The Rubicon--- can't take that back), but you still find his abuse unacceptable. You don't want it to end, but you want to stop being abused.

Say we can work out a boundary here. What will you do if he violates it? Being rash or impulsive may lead to escalation, so it's good that you are trying to work this out.

[Kwamina]

Hi Ceruleanblue

I'm just confused as to how to set a boundary, other than just to leave if it happens again, and I really don't want to do that.

Dealing with abuse is very unpleasant and finding a proper strategy to safely extricate yourself from this situation can indeed be tricky. I am very sorry that you are in this difficult situation. I am glad you posted about it though so you can get support and advice from us here.

It's clear that you value the relationship with your partner and don't just want to leave. You also value your own safety. The question then is, at what point do the boundaries stemming from the former value start to conflict with the latter?

There are various ways to defend/enforce your boundaries. You don't necessarily have to first verbally communicate your boundary, your boundaries and the consequences of crossing them can also become apparent from your actions. We have a workshop in which various examples are given of ways to defend/enforce your boundaries:

Relating our boundary defenses back to the value is very important.  If we don't do this, we run the risk of loosing sight of our objective - and we may make matters worse. To be constructive, we need to have realistic values and we need to understand what our responsibilities are if we want to truly live them.

... .

There are 3 parts, the values we have, the boundaries of those values, and the actions we take when the boundaries are threatened.

Some examples:

------------------------------------------

Value:	Important aspect of life that I commit to live fully.
Boundary:	Defining what falls outside of my value, what is unacceptable.
Action:	One of the options I have when a boundary is threatened.

------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------

Value:	I treat everybody with respect
Boundary:	It is not respectful to dominate or control by screaming
Action:	Communicate my values. Lead by example (education - proactive)

------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------

Value:	I treat everybody with respect
Boundary:	It is not respectful to dominate or control by screaming
Action:	When a hot topics begin to simmer, I redirect the discussion to a safer topic.  (incident avoidance - proactive).

------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------

Value:	I treat everybody with respect
Boundary:	It is not respectful to dominate or control by screaming
Action:	I will take a time out or hang up (incident avoidance - reactive).

------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------

Value:	I treat everybody with respect
Boundary:	One cannot be respected in a consistently verbally abusive environment.
Action:	I will remove myself permanently from the environment or until there is change (total avoidance).

------------------------------------------

From the example above you can see that a value has many boundaries.  There are also many ways to defend your boundary.  :)efenses can be as simple as communicating and educating the other person.  It can be a comprehensive as leaving a relationship.

In all of these cases I am "not" telling the other person how to behave, what to do or not do or in any way trying to dictate to them how to live their life.  I am telling them how "I" behave, how "I" live.  I am clearly controlling that which I can -- myself.

Take care and I hope this is of some help to you

[Ceruleanblue]

That does help. The more I think on it, the more I think this needs to be a boundary I have in place in my mind before I ever have to enforce it, and I feel stating it to him beforehand would not be helpful.

He's never outright hit me, it's usually grabbing me or my wrists, or trying to wrest something away from me by extreme force. I end up hurt, and this last time, my hand sustained a cut. The entire mouth of a spray water bottle was pretty much ripped almost completely off, so that tells you how much force was used, and why my hand ended up getting cut on the handle.

I don't want the marriage to end, and when these incidences happen, he is usually screaming at me that he wants a divorce, and for me to pack up right then, or the next day. I don't want to do that, so I've thought about it, and the only thing I can think of to do is move to the spare bedroom after one of these incidences. Would that be a decent boundary, because I'm sure he'll see it as punishing him, rather than me keeping ME safe.

I really do have a zero tolerance attitude for violence, but I also have compassion that he does have this mental issue. What worries me though is that he's still blaming ME for all the times he's gotten physical with me. To me, that's saying that there is little likelihood of it ever completely stopping, if he won't even own it, or acknowledge that no matter what he "thinks" I did, physical violence is NOT OKAY!

Do you think my boundary is too soft? Not enough? I just don't know. Most things seem easier to set a boundary around than this. In fact, I just enforced a strong boundary today, and he's probably seething mad about it inside, even though he's currently hiding it from me(this is a pattern for him). I wouldn't let him take my car to work, because then I'd be stranded at home, and I'd stated my boundary a month or so back. It was hard, but I did it, and he had to ride his motorcycle to work in the rain.

[Notwendy]

CB, I understand that you have excused a lot on the basis of him having a mental illness. Consider though that acting out physically is a very immature behavior. Toddlers and preschoolers might try this and they learn pretty quickly that it isn't acceptable behavior. However, they don't learn it by themselves, they learn it from adults who teach them not to.

I don't know if your H will take responsibility to stop on his own. It certainly works for him and as long as you allow this, he is likely to keep on doing it, just like a toddler will smack a sibling until an adult steps in.

It is up to you to put the boundary on this.

I bring up the example of a toddler, because even if he does have issues, and emotional immaturity, he seems to be functional and reasonably intelligent. If a toddler can learn to "use your words, not your hands" , I think he can too.

I also think you can expect him to learn this.

[Ceruleanblue]

Yes, he is smart enough, and works a professional job. I consider him high functioning at work(although he always seems to have someone at work he hates), and low functioning at home.

I agree though that he's totally responsible for what he does, just as I am, and he certainly should take responsibility, should be sorry(he's really not, he just blames me), and he is totally capable of learning not to become physical. I mean, he's not doing that stuff at work, although he's been known to get into physical confrontations with his kids sports coaches, and random people due to road rage.

This is something he needs to stop doing, and I've never thought it was okay, and I'm just scared because he seems to think it is. He even has his T convinced(don't ask me how he did this), that I'm equally responsible. He has to be lying about these incidences. NO ONE who has ever read up on, or dealt with domestic violence would say what he has done is okay. Also, I found out after we married, that his oldest daughter claims he once choked her. I discounted it because this girls is clearly personality disordered, but maybe it's true. They all lie, BPDh, his kids, so how would I know? I just know that he has a history, going back to high school, where he got in a "from one end of the room to the other" FIGHT with his shop teacher. Everyone told me that was so shocking at the time, because he was mostly quiet, but now I see it's how he reacts, and it's been lifelong.


He can learn, he's capable of it, but will he want to? All I can do is set the boundary I guess, and protect ME.

[HappyNihilist]

I've thought about it, and the only thing I can think of to do is move to the spare bedroom after one of these incidences. Would that be a decent boundary, because I'm sure he'll see it as punishing him, rather than me keeping ME safe.

That could be a boundary, if you feel comfortable enforcing it. It's definitely a good starting place. You're really thinking about this, and that's key. 

When developing boundaries, it's important to keep in mind what you're trying to accomplish. Do you mean that you would stay there overnight, or that you would move completely into the spare bedroom? What does moving to the spare bedroom mean for you in terms of self-protection, physically and/or emotionally?

With physical violence, the primary concern is defusing the situation. This keeps you safe, and it gives him a chance to get back to an emotional baseline. What sort of actions might you be able to take to defuse escalating situations with your husband?

I really do have a zero tolerance attitude for violence, but I also have compassion that he does have this mental issue. What worries me though is that he's still blaming ME for all the times he's gotten physical with me. To me, that's saying that there is little likelihood of it ever completely stopping, if he won't even own it, or acknowledge that no matter what he "thinks" I did, physical violence is NOT OKAY!

Physical abuse in a relationship requires ownership and acknowledgment on both sides. He's unlikely to acknowledge/accept it until you start showing him that you have zero tolerance for physical violence. Unfortunately, you can't just talk him into believing that physical violence is unacceptable no matter what, when your actions are telling him that you will accept it.

I'm going to use a silly example here, so forgive me. But let's say I keep a bowl of peppermints on my desk. People have to come into my cubicle (my 'personal space' to see the bowl. Most people will ask if they can have a peppermint before they reach for one. Some people just grab one. I feel like these people are violating my boundaries by coming into my personal space and taking something from it without asking.

I can do one of several things.

• I can let it slide because I feel like it's not an important enough boundary to defend (it's just cheap candy).



• I can not say anything because I don't want to potentially cause conflict, even though it really bothers me.



• I can sarcastically say, "Help yourself!" When the other person apologizes, I can laugh it off and say it's fine, even though I don't really think it's fine.



• I can say, "I'd appreciate it if you'd ask before taking candy from my desk," in a polite but firm tone, and continue to enforce that.

The first and last options are the only ones that can lead to my consistent well-being and comfort with my candy boundary.

If you don't prove that you will enforce your boundaries, then others have no reason to believe you when you say that you will. That's why it's so important to develop clear and realistic boundaries and have a plan for how you will enforce them.

In fact, I just enforced a strong boundary today.

It was hard, but I did it.

   

This is so important. You deserve to be proud of yourself. You can do this. 

[empath]

CB, I've had to enforce boundaries with my h as well lately. Thankfully, his physical expression has not returned, but I am ready to increase the boundary if needed. In my experience, boundaries seem to be interpreted as 'punishments' by those who are restricted from just doing what they want. As long as it is about keeping yourself physically and emotionally safe rather than trying to change your partner, it isn't really punishments. Remember, pwBPD think you are an extension of them, so boundaries are automatically bad in their minds.

I'm wondering if your spare bedroom door has a lock on it? One of the recommendations from the DV sites is the make sure that the abuser cannot gain access to you. Do you have a safety plan in place that you can carry out if thing become dangerously violent? I know it is hard to think about that kind of thing; it was for me. It's important that you keep yourself safe. In my case, I don't really have access to money, so that is one of the things that I am working on right now.

[Ceruleanblue]

Hmmm, I guess I could install a lock on the spare bedroom door. And yes, he does see boundaries as punishment, and it's only been recently that he's been having any boundaries himself. I still don't know if he understands what boundaries are. He argues so long and hard that boundaries are mean, and only meant to punish, that I find it funny that he's now trying to set boundaries with me. I'm fine with that, of course, but it would be so nice if he respected any of mine. I mean, a lock on the door? Sadly, that might be necessary.

He's calmed down after the most recent episode, but who knows why. It seems to ramp up, he blows, then things either break totally down(one time he left me), or he manages to calm down after he blew off steam.

It's hard setting boundaries with someone who claims not to understand what they are, but it really is necessary. I mean, his view of what boundaries are, can't keep me from having them.

[sweetheart]

Hi CB,

I just want to add a cautionary note to the subject of 'locked doors'. The best advice where physical violence is a possibility is to create a Safety Plan, this usually involves leaving the house to go stay somewhere until things calm down.

The problem in my experience with putting yourself as part of a plan behind a 'locked door' is that once someone is in a highly dysregulated state it is often a 'red rag to a bull'.

I'm not saying don't lock a door, I'm saying a Safety Plan is usually to leave the house, to make sure your exit isn't blocked etc. always have your phone in your pocket, overnight bag in the car and so on.

Again this is something to really fine tune in your own T.

Can you talk about what boundaries he has set for you and you him? Would it help to list some here and fine tune them with members?

[Kwamina]

Hi again Ceruleanblue

I think sweetheart makes a very important point here about safety planning. To help you with your own safety planning, I encourage you to take a look at the following document: Safety First

[empath]

Boundaries are not really about the other people in our lives; they are about us and our own needs. So, it doesn't really matter whether the other people understand the concept or how to implement them. In fact, those who have the most trouble with understanding the concept are probably the people we need to have the strongest boundaries with.

It is a good point about the locked door in the middle of dysregulation -- probably would add fuel to the fire of their emotions. I would agree, you need to be ready to physically leave if there is a threat of violence. There are also warning signs that there is going to be a physical incident. Knowing what those would be a good thing, so you have a chance to leave before you are seriously injured.

[Ceruleanblue]

If I thought locking myself in the bedroom would further anger him, I certainly wouldn't do it. Based on his action in the past, I don't think that would enrage him.

His "boundary" is about me texting him at work, but to me, this just feels like more power/control. He wants me to be always accessible to him, but he wants to be off the radar when it suits him. Now, keep in mind that with his job, he's getting texts ALL THE TIME, and he's on call 24/7 if they need him. If he's in a meeting, of course I don't expect him to answer. He takes everything to extremes, and everything is black/white. He's fine with being fully accessible to everyone else, at all times, but he resents that from me. Today, I simply texted him to see if he could come home a little early due to us having to be somewhere, he ignored me. He later said he was busy. Funny, how he's never too busy to interrupt our times to text others. It's just another double standard. I don't expect immediate answers either, but it's funny how he'll ignore me when he's angry. He's so passive aggressive.

The boundary I have is that I won't stick around for verbal or physical abuse anymore. I've had it with all that, and I deserve a more peaceful life. Smaller boundaries can be put in place later, after this very basic one is well established.

[Kwamina]

The boundary I have is that I won't stick around for verbal or physical abuse anymore. I've had it with all that, and I deserve a more peaceful life. Smaller boundaries can be put in place later, after this very basic one is well established.

Sounds like a good boundary to me! Nobody deserves to be abused so standing up for yourself and protecting yourself with this boundary is something I consider a positive development. Setting boundaries and safety planning can go hand in hand, this is especially important when trying to safely extricate yourself from a physically abusive environment.

I previously quoted something about examples of boundaries and that you can have various options for defending a particular boundary. You mention locking yourself in the spare bedroom to keep yourself safe, that is one option. Can you also think up other options to deal with this type of situation? Are there perhaps certain people in your life you might want to involve in your safety planning?

It can really help to think ahead and consider the various options you might have. When you have your plan ready, it's easier to implement it in the heat of the moment when you suddenly find yourself in an abusive situation again.

Take care

[GaGrl]

OK... .practicalities... .f you are going to have a safety plan and safe room, you need to ensure that you have cell phone/ 911 access from within the room - no matter how quickly you have to take shelter. You may need to get get quite cheap pre-paid phone and secure it in your safe place.

[Ceruleanblue]

If I was really that afraid of him, I'd just leave him. I mean, if have these plans in place, but I've never been so physically afraid of him that I feel I have to leave. If I was truly afraid of him, I wouldn't even consider locking myself in a room. I'd hightail it out of the house, if I was that afraid.

I'll keep in mind to keep my phone close by. Doesn't hurt to have it, just in case I have to go stay elsewhere, more for him to cool off than anything. He's been pretty mellow for a bit, but that could change any time.

I think he knows I've sort of hit the wall of just excusing a lot of his behaviors because I truly feel he has a mental illness. I've decided that while he does have something going on, it does NOT excuse his behaviors, and he can control them. I mean, I didn't see them until after we'd married, and he obviously doesn't act this way at work.

I am keeping my boundaries clearly defined though, because I know at some point, I'm likely to need them again.

[formflier]

Calling police, will be the end of the marriage. 

This may be true.  It definitely will be a turning point.

I considered that calling 911 on my wife would end things and I also considered that reporting her to CPS would end things as well.

Turns out they were turning points, big ones, in our r/s and things got better from that.

The first 911 call I made was scary and she was mocking me and telling me it was over.  Deep down I think she realized it was a turning point and I wasn't going to be intimidated any more.

FF

[Sunfl0wer]

Just wanted to reply to one bit:

If I was really that afraid of him, I'd just leave him. I mean, if have these plans in place, but I've never been so physically afraid of him that I feel I have to leave. If I was truly afraid of him, I wouldn't even consider locking myself in a room. I'd hightail it out of the house, if I was that afraid.

Please consider... .

Not feeling afraid ... .Does NOT equal safe, does not equal not dangerous.  Convincing yourself otherwise is actually dangerous.

Trusting your instincts to tell you when there is danger, is a good thing.

However, trusting that you are not in danger, when you do not feel scared... .can be dangerous.

Many people have been harmed, abused, killed, and did not actually feel afraid until they were already trapped without an escape.  Many people get harmed, abused, killed unintentionally by a partner who got out of hand, but the behavior was "typical" for the couple... .but a mistake happened.

At the point in an abusive situation, when the partner wants to hightail it out for safety, is actually the most likely point to be severely harmed.

Consider not waiting until you are actually IN danger to leave.

Set a boundary BEFORE danger... .and leave.

[HappyNihilist]

Setting and enforcing firm boundaries around physical abuse is meant to keep it from progressing to such dangerous situations.

It's great that you've been working on your safety plans and boundaries, CB.  You're doing good work.

[sweetheart]

CB you might find this book interesting The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker.

I read it many many years ago before I met my husband. My career has involved working with people who had extremely violent histories in intensive psychiatric care settings and forensic units and I found it then very helpful.

Little did I know that years later I would be reminded on a personal level of the importance of tuning in to my own bodies danger signals. It has stood me in good stead in many aspects of my life. I can't praise it highly enough.


Just want to say the point Sunflower highlights about thinking it's safe because you don't feel scared is a really excellent point. That's what made me think about this book.

I wonder if it might help you CB in a mindful way to start listening to your body and not just your thoughts when you are in a conflict situation with your husband.

It took me a while to understand that my physical and emotional states are as important as each other and that I needed to pay attention to what they were both telling me. 

[Ceruleanblue]

I'll have to look that book up. I really do listen to my gut feelings, and I'm also pretty intuitive. I know BPDh is capable of assaulting me, but my gut just tells me he's way, way too narcissistic to really hurt me. I don't actually think he "loses control" as much as he wants me to believe. I think it's an excuse to vent his anger, but I'd bet my last dollar that he never loses sight of not wanting the consequences if he hurt me.

He took anger management classes, and was so condescending about the court ordered guys in there, and he works in a very professional setting, and he'd never want that to come up on his background checks.

Plus, if he'd ever really hurt his ex, I'd have heard about it. In fact, it was his ex that stabbed him, and hit him with a hammer, and she is just super crazy. I'm sure he probably provoked her, but who does that? If he was going to hurt anyone, it would have been HER. That much, I'm sure of. From what I hear, he never retaliated against her, but I'm sure he was about as physical with her as he is with me(and maybe that's why she stabbed him... .who knows). She was more the "fight fire with fire" type than I am. I look out for ME, and I don't fight back or escalate it.

I do listen to my body, and my gut feelings, and probably I should have walked away sooner a couple times. My gut was telling me he might go off, and if I truly feared him, I would have walked. Now, because I'm just sick of dealing with it at all, I will do so. It may mean we never resolve anything, but at least I won't be around for him to attack me. There have been a couple times where there just was no warning, and I was actually walking away from the situation, and he grabbed me from behind. I wasn't seriously hurt, but he did fling me across the room, into a glass table. I thought I was doing the right thing by walking away, but maybe next time I'll back away, and not turn my back on him! 

I don't know, maybe one of these time, even though I'm not "hurt", maybe it would serve as a lesson to him to have me call the police. I just fear that will be the END of our marriage, and the end of him getting help.

I do need to stop worrying about him though, because only he's accountable for his actions, and I need to protect me. My gut feeling, and my body keep telling me though that he'd walk away before really hurting me. He's way too into himself, and his lifestyle to want to mess that up. He's all about what people think of him.

[Sunfl0wer]

I'm going to be blunt:

Your language sounds a lot like minimizing and rationalize an abusive relationship.

You focus very much on him... .

-His limits

-How far HE will go

-Consequences to him

Etc.

I am concerned NOT about his ability to hurt you.  I am convinced he HAS the ability and lacks regard, lacks the desire to set appropriate limits to his feelings and actions.

He threw you into a glass table and you say you weren't hurt? 

My concern is YOU...

YOUR ability to value yourself

Your ability to value and have insight on what is good for your wellbeing

Your ability to make a decision for your safety that does NOT consider what HIS consequences will be.

My concern for you is the ability to think of yourself, and your safety... .WITHOUT one single thought of him.  Think of yourself... .independent of him entirely.  Think about what is good for you... .independent of him entirely.  After you do that... .After you consider yourself fully and completely... .Then you can add how you two interact and impact one another... .while maintaining the values for you that you have.

Do not call the police to teach him a lesson next time her throws you into a glass table.

Call the police because you value your life, mental and physical well being.  Call the police because your value is that assault and battery on another human being is not acceptable.  He should be fortunate that the consequence of assault and battery is a call to the police.  There are many states where it is perfectly legal and justifiable to shoot a person doing assault and battery on you.  He could be dead for choosing this option with someone who has a greater self value.

I realize that I do not follow this board, your threads as well as others here.  I realize my perspective is based in what I'm reading in this thread alone.

I also realize that my opinion here may sound extreme in comparison.  Please challenge this to see and work this out for yourself. 

However, I cannot imagine any mitigating circumstances that would cause me to conclude differently.

Had he thrown his ex into a glass table, then it is possible that she was acting in self defense when she went at him with a hammer.  IDK!  However, if you weren't there, neither do you.  Your assumption is a story you tell yourself to justify this relationship.  It is not fact... .along with many other stories.

Convincing yourself that things are not that bad is exactly what victims of DV do to remain in the abusive situation.  This is exactly what I hear in your thread.

I honestly mean this in the most loving, concerned way possible.

I wish people would have spoke this bluntly to me.

However, I still would have needed to hear it 100x's more before an ounce could seep in.

Anyone who treated my DV situation by normalizing it, I now see as a type of codependence... .or at least an unintentional invalidating message.

Your claims against him are not ok, not normal at all.  Getting flung across a room is outrageous!  I hope you will feel so as well.

[OnceConfused]

Allow me to ask some perhaps stupid questions:

What is your definition of marriage and of staying in love with someone?

If you have to live in constant fear of your spouse , the person who is supposed to support and love you , then why would you or anyone accept that kink of life? Years ago, women stayed in the marriage because she cannot make it outside of the home, but nowadays with women fully are working ,the economic reason becomes moot.

[Sunfl0wer]

Hey CB,

When I was in an abusive relationship, and I believe this is true for most others as well... .

There was always a very small voice somewhere inside of me that knew this way of living was not ok.

But I would find myself "reasoning" and "rationalizing" in a way that would quiet this small voice so that the voice would get smaller and smaller.

The more others around me either confirmed or denied this voice, really made an impact.

When I heard stories of abuse that were worse or more progressed than mine, I'd compare and use that to quiet my little voice that tried to tell me, "this is not ok!"

Sure, I also no longer felt fear in situations others did.  I felt it was contained in some way, or predictable in some way.  I was used to certain rages, that they no longer scared me and only an escalation of what I was "used to" feared me.

I know that there is a small part of you that knows that getting flung across a room into a glass table is NOT ok, even if you didn't bleed open and require emergency medical care.

I do not want to assume so... .

Can I ask you... .

Why do you say you didn't get "hurt?"  What is the definition of hurt to you? At what point do you consider that you are actually being harmed?

_{Making a boundary on not accepting abuse is great, but if you are waiting by defining it about being cut open and needing urgent care, I think we need to guide you better.}

[Ceruleanblue]

Okay, maybe the "undecided" board was NOT the place to post this. I only posted here because my posts were being moved off the "staying" board to here, although I really am committed for now to trying to work on ME, and the marriage. I've found that a lot of people on the "undecided board" or "leaving board", just DO NOT understand the reasons why some of us STAY, and try to make things works. I don't come here to feel worse. OBVIOUSLY, I do not think this is okay is any way, and I sort of feel that being accused of minimizing the assaults just doesn't serve much purpose. I've fully acknowledged that I don't think it's okay, in any way, shape or form. This is my first marriage/relationship where I've had to deal with this, and I don't stay for the reasons you probably think I do. I feel those on the staying board probably have a better understanding of this.

In answer to your question, "hurt" to me can be anything from my feelings being hurt due to emotional abuse, all the way to cuts, bruises or being physically battered. In fact, to me, the scars of emotional abuse tends to run much deeper, and last longer.

Of course I know his flinging me across the room was not okay! I'm not stupid, but I stay because I do see he's making some progress by just being in DBT, and he's made slight improvements in some areas. I stay because I believe far too many people just give up when things get tough. I stay because I believe we were married in the eyes of God(and no, I don't think God wants anyone to stay in a marriage to be abused), and I really, really view that he's emotionally unstable, and deserves some compassion. Normal people have more self control than he does, and I know he doesn't like being this way. I stay, mostly due to my religious beliefs, and because I think he's working on change, as am I.

If I thought my life was in jeopardy, or that he had zero chance of getting better, I'd walk. I do have a back up plan, but I'm working on ME, and giving this some time for his DBT to work.

[OnceConfused]

you are right. You should be posting in the staying board where folks are trying to stay and perhaps have much more to offer you in terms of support.

[Sunfl0wer]

Never once did I say that you should leave your husband.  Everything I have said I believe would be true for the staying board as well.  I would admonish anyone, staying board, any board, to call the police on a partner that throws them across the room.  

Please do not use this as a reason to discount my words.

You have said that your H would not act this way at work.  However, he does at home.  Setting the standard and boundary in your home that home is a safe place, not where violence occurs is necessary.

You are asking for help setting boundaries around "physical abuse."

However, you focus on fear of him leaving or getting in trouble.

This is serious!  You are right to want to set boundaries!  :)eciding these things ahead of time is wise.  You are right to want MC to take this seriously!



What constitutes a reason to call the police?  Can you start here?

If your H is getting an indirect message that there is no limit, no reason for which you would call the police for fear of losing him, or for your own fear of consequences to him, then you are indeed in a dangerous situation, with no limits.