Interested in feedback if this text was "flirting"

[formflier]

"did you take care of your boredom"

Is a text that is alleged to be flirtatious.  It's been a while since my wife has snooped around in my text log.

Nothing to hide... .I don't make a habit of leaving it open.

So apparently she looks through there and the text above means I'm flirting.

She told me "next time just go home with her... "



Sigh...

Wife has really been cranking them out lately... .I was in better mood this evening... .and really don't feel down at all about this...

FF

[Turkish]

Hard to say without the context of the conversation.

[Cat Familiar]

Sounds vaguely sexual. IDK, pwBPD can make "isn't the sky blue" into an insult, a come-on, a complaint. 

[Daniell85]

She has a naughty mind and an anxious one. 

[JohnLove]

In essence that text (out of context and in itself) is a personal enquiry... .and that is a little personal. You don't ask someone how they're feeling unless you are concerned for or interested in their feelings.

But fllirting?... .I don't think so... .unless there is more substantitive statements or history that you have left out.  

It involved "feelings" so I am not at all surprised if your partner dysregulated over it if she was stressed or feeling bad about herself or your relationship (which she may be in part responsible for herself).

The BPD whisperer might translate that to you showed interest or concern in how another female was feeling, instead of her and that took away from the love you have for your partner.

[Lifewriter16]

Reads vaguely sexual to me too. Of course, the source of that is the content of MY mind.

Lifewriter x

[Notwendy]

To me, FF, the barometer for "crossing the line" has to be me, because- everywhere I go, the one consistent person who is watching me is me.

Although I respect and am concerned for my H's feelings, he has made an issue over things that are not an issue. If I considered his barometer for this, then I probably should not talk to anybody because of the potential someone might get chatty with me.

I think we know when the line is crossed. I was out with a female friend the other day and a guy started flirting with her. We both saw what was going on and he surely knew what was going on. I believe that if we are honest with ourselves, we can tell when we are getting too close or suggestive with someone.

The content of the text is not business like. It is personal. It also involves an exchange of feelings. You are aware that the other person is bored, and asked her if she is taking care of that.

There are some people that maintain that getting too personal is crossing a boundary so to speak, if not actually flirting. I could also see this in context of a work situation if a co-worker was commiserating about a boring project, but still, the comment seems a bit "off".


I think the context of this text is probably the deciding factor, but really the person to decide if this is flirting is you.

[formflier]

 

Good points on context.  

I've been doing some rideshare to pick up some extra $$.

I have no idea who this person is... .other than someone that got a ride from me.

She talked my ear off about how bored she had been all day and her ride (she is not from this area) was to go to a restaurant to "fix" her boredom.  She was also very concerned about getting a ride back.  

I told her to text me so I would have her real number and she mine.  (me trolling for some business here... .$$ business... .not monkey business)

So... .I hadn't heard from her and was about to go home for the night.  The entire context of what I know about this lady is that she was bored.

note:  "dana uber" is how she is listed in google.  


dana uber: Dana - uber 7:58 PM

Me: Got it 8:03 PM

Me: Did u fix ur boredom? Need a ride anytime soon? 10:34 PM

dana uber: Hey! I got a ride later with a friend! Thanks for checking up on me



So... this is the entire text exchange.  According to wife I was flirting and next time should just have "gone home with her".

Sigh... .wasn't this same wife that was worried about me not bringing in income or having a job?

Anyone know of a job without contact with women... .?

FF

[formflier]

 

I agree with Wendy there was some personal content about boredom and feelings.

That is the only detail that I know about this person's life... .

to me... .I would have been flirting or coming on to her if I had followed up the conversation after she was clear didn't need the services I was offering.

At that point I would have know my "business" was over and any further pursuit of her would have been "personal".

FF

[Notwendy]

If you want my honest opinion FF - while this may not be flirting, it is an informal exchange between you and an almost complete stranger. It is not business like.

I will give you my honest feedback as a woman. If I were to be riding alone in a car with a man, I'd probably be on high alert ( if I even accepted the ride at all) . Any comment made to me about my feelings, or in any personal context would freak me out a bit. You may not be a player, but I don't know you, and she doesn't know you.

When conducting business, I expect the conversation to be on business terms. Now, over time, I think people relax this a bit when they get to know each other, and they do this in context of the other person's situation and boundaries as well. But I think in general, we have a good idea of when it is appropriate to speak casually with someone. However, I also think it is not ever appropriate to speak personally in a non intimate ( close friend) relationship.

What is casual?

I male friend of mine who runs a business watches the same TV series I do ( he is very happily married and works with his wife, so she is there too). So if I am at his business, I might say " hey did you see last night's episode?" and he might laugh and say "yeah it was great".

What is personal?

Anything about feelings, relationships. "Have you taken care of that boredom yet? is an example " I could talk for several minutes with friend as above about the show, but I can't imagine asking him about his feelings or saying something like that to him.

There are few times where feelings are appropriate "I am sorry to hear your relative died" but that is still more of a formality.


So back to the call. If a man were to contact me about a ride- for business, then I would prefer to hear something like: Thank you for your business. Please let me know if you need a ride to X"  or, I recall you mentioning that you needed a ride to X, I can drive you if you need one.

That was to the point: need a ride, I can provide one. No other exchange.

IMHO, your comment would have crossed a line with me. I would also decline the offer and not call a driver who spoke to me personally.

Is it flirting? Not necessarily, but it was not business like.

[Grey Kitty]

Trying to interest somebody in (a business transaction) with you in a perky outgoing way is flirty by its very nature.

If you WERE trying to get a date with her, the same statement would serve a similar purpose there.

My wife's flirting is an unstoppable force of nature. Probably 90% of her flirty interactions aren't about sex or even an interest in sex. She does it with women (she is straight). She does it with guys she isn't attracted to and would never be attracted to.

A little bit of flattery, mirroring, or validation can go quite a ways toward opening up the possibility of a relationship. As Notwendy points out, it isn't professional, but that doesn't mean it isn't effective--consider what salespeople do.

So in summary... .your wife had a valid point in calling it flirty... .not that the comment "well just go home with her next time" part was valid.

Obviously this kind of subtle discussion isn't going to go anywhere with your wife. Know that those sort of efforts to drum up repeat business or any success at getting repeat business are reasonably likely to trigger your wife, and make your choice of what you will do in the future accordingly.

[IsItHerOrIsItMe]

My wife may not view that as actual "flirting"... .but she would certainly see  since I'm "in a relationship" with a woman... .

I don't think you can actually "accidentally" flirt (OK, I do know some guys who's personality is so flirtatious that it can happen). 

If it was me I'm sure we'd have the conversation:

   1. No, I wasn't flirting

   2. I understand you feel threatened by my email

   3. I realize you don't believe I "protect" our marriage the way you'd like

   4. I understand you feel threatened because I don't agree I'm not threatening our marriage by the email exchange... .

Of course that's only if I don't let her push my buttons & spiral out of control... .

[HoldingAHurricane]

Admittedly, as the wife of a man with dBPD and infidelity being an issue for us (so I might be extra threat sensitive) I would be uncomfortable with the text on the basis that its a personal inquiry and it wasn't transparent to me i.e. your wife found it rather than you mentioning the incident first. I once heard a therapist say something along the lines of when there are trust issues it's best not to require 'benefit of the doubt' so not to put yourself in situation where that is required. Just my two cents.

[formflier]

 

Thanks for all the input on this.

I can see my wife's point of view... .and that of many on here.

I find it interesting what people considering flirting. 

To me... .a flirt is something that obviously shows sexual interest in someone. 

I consider what I did "just being friendly".  I do and say that kind of stuff without thinking about it.  To men and women.

The only thing that I know about this woman is that she was in town "cooped up" at her friends house all day and was bored.  She volunteered it... .and that was what we talked about on the way to where I dropped her off. 

If it had been a guy... .I would have said something similar.

If I had mentioned something to her about her hair looking nice, or her outfit... .or the "sound of her voice"... .to me... .that would have been a flirt.

My wife doesn't see it that way.

So... .where to go from here?  Well, in large part this type of incident is one of the reasons I no longer share my password with her. 

I've refused to try and evaluate each interaction with a female from her point of view.  That would be exhausting... .

It seems this has blown over... .my wife was in a foul mood for days before this... and still is in a funk this morning. 

New post coming for that.

Please keep the suggestions coming.

FF

[CrazyChuck]

"did you take care of your boredom"

Was this text followed up with anything like "I have cats and peanut butter"?

Now that would have been flirting.

[formflier]

 

agreed... .that would be flirting... .   

Nope... nothing like that in what I sent.

FF

[Cat Familiar]

Context and the character of the speaker is so important in deciding just exactly what is '"flirting".

If I remember correctly, formflier, you are a Southerner. I lived in the South and the warmth and friendliness there is quite different than in other parts of the States. I loved it!

But what is perceived as "friendly" in some areas can be perceived as a "come-on" in other places or by people who are from other places.

Another difference is the introvert/extrovert polarity. I had a boyfriend who was an extreme extrovert. He knew just about everyone in town by name. He would remember small details about people and could start easy conversations with the most reticent folks.

The problem was that sometimes people thought he was flirting and being inappropriate because they weren't used to people being so gregarious. Occasionally women thought he was coming onto them when he was just enjoying being his friendly self.

[formflier]

 

I'm an ESTJ (if you are into that kinda thing).

Pretty solid in those categories.

I went to college "up north" and started out walking around saying hey to everyone... .waving... .

Yep... .got some odd looks back.

Yes... .I'm a southerner... .firmly.

FF

[Notwendy]

I don't think it was flirting, but again, in a professional context, it may have crossed a boundary.

It is interesting that the response from the women on this thread is different from the men. This may be because we have been on the receiving end of male flirting. Consider that this made some of us uncomfortable.

I know you didn't intend it as flirting, and you didn't. But as Cat said, in some cases, it could be interpreted as that.

You know that in the workplace, the most strict boundaries are in place, not just to protect the receiver from sexual harassment, but also to protect the person from being accused of it.  It goes both ways. We all know that male doctors have a female chaperone in the room if they are doing certain exams on a woman patient. This isn't because the doctor is intending to be creepy. It is so the woman is more comfortable that he isn't and also it protects him in case he is falsely accused.

I am one of many moms who volunteered at a local high school. One of the boundaries is to not touch the students and not be alone in them with a closed door. It is not that we are creepy ( we would cringe at the idea) it is so that the students are not put at any risk and also that the parents are not falsely accused. Even if one of us did tap a child on the shoulder, it would mean nothing to us- but we don't know what the kid might think of it. Same in the workplace- the boundaries exist regardless of the context.

No matter what your wife thinks, you may want to consider what boundaries you would like to have in place when transporting women around. This is not something like an open office where there are people around. It is just you and a woman in a car. I don't have any doubt that you are an upright person- but the passenger doesn't know that. Also, she could misinterpret something and falsely accuse you.

I also mention this because from your posts it has happened before- an e mail with a co-worker. You know what you are doing on your end of the situation, but it is hard to know what someone else is thinking.  We all have different comfort levels with these kinds of things, which is why we need to consider having even stricter boundaries than we might like ourselves.

[Notwendy]

It's also interesting that boundaries affect how we behave with someone.

I might not be talking to a single man about a TV series we both like if we were alone or out in a place that was not a workplace. It may give him the wrong impression. The reason I can do this with this male friend is that I am a customer and in the place of his business and his wife is working there too. The main reason I am there is as a customer, but since I do know them, we sometimes chat for a few moments.

I also spend more time taking to the wife about mom and kid stuff. They both know that I am a married mom. So, in this context, there is no wrong impression from our discussion. It I thought there could be, then I would likely not speak casually to him.

[empath]

As a sales person,  one of the things my employer trained us on was making personal connections in order to increase the likelihood of a sale. The text that you sent sounds like a connection making one rather than a personal one. The problem that I encountered is that pwBPD have difficulty with changes due to context - probably related to the black / white thinking.

[formflier]

 

Exactly!

Back in the day... .before the military.  I waited tables for a while.  Always best to connect with people you are serving... make it about them.

I call it being friendly and outgoing.

FF

[Daniell85]

Way back in former posts, probably you said why she is so paranoid about other ladies and the suspected second family you have. 

Where did this worry of hers originate, I never saw what triggered it.

[formflier]

 

Not sure exactly

At around year 15 of marriage we were forced from our home for about 6 months due to a natural disaster.  Bad flood.

Lot's of things changed after that.  It was a massive financial hit. 

The house (and farm) really never was the same after that.

Wacky accusations started showing up.  Looking back... .I did EXACTLY the wrong thing.  Invalidated, argued... JADEd

I kept going until I "won" the argument of the day... .but I lost the war.

I didn't know any better... .honestly thought I was doing the right thing.

Bad... .bad... period of our lives.

I wish I could nail down "ground zero" a little better... but that seems to be it.

Traits are there in her family.  Her sister is much worse than she is.  So, what I think happened is you mixed in some stress and ... .BOOM... .off to the races with her BPD traits.

There were a couple different "second family" things.

1 was the lady I "married" in our barn (right under her nose)

2 was the baby I introduced her to at McDonalds.  Just my luck we are at McDs playland and a militant breastfeeder shows up.  Whips'em out and starts feeding.  Well... .at some point she says the baby's name... .and it is the same as my wife. 

My wife has an uncommon name.

OK... .even though I didn't know about BPD then... .I knew at that point I was screwed... .bad...

I just had no idea how it would go.

Anyway... .later on she claimed that the child was mine.  Since the name was the same as hers, that was how the kid got "snuck" on my government health insurance (I was still active duty at the time... .). 

That story went on for months... .it would keep coming up... .and of course I kept feeding it. 

Until one day I had enough... .I set up a paternity test... .

Without batting an eye my wife said that the child was NOT mine... .but I was still sleeping with militant breastfeeding lady.

The creepy part... .is that my wife found out where the lady lived and made some attempts to contact her... .no idea what ever came of it... .

Boy... .those were the days of really "interesting stories". 

Now they "just" wake up mean... .

FF

[unicorn2014]

"did you take care of your boredom"

Is a text that is alleged to be flirtatious.  It's been a while since my wife has snooped around in my text log.

Nothing to hide... .I don't make a habit of leaving it open.

So apparently she looks through there and the text above means I'm flirting.

She told me "next time just go home with her... "



Sigh...

Wife has really been cranking them out lately... .I was in better mood this evening... .and really don't feel down at all about this...

FF

Formflier I have to admit if I was your wife and I found that text in your phone I would be upset. I don't know what kind rules of engagement you and your wife have defined for yourselves in regards to others and it sounds like you have different expectations. Have you asked her if she prefer you not talk to that person? What would you do if she said yes?

[formflier]

Have you asked her if she prefer you not talk to that person? What would you do if she said yes?

The thing is... .there are times my wife would be ok with it and times she would not.

I'm ok with what I did all the time.

I have not asked her if she prefer I not talk to that person.

If she preferred I not talk to that person... .I would talk anyway. (letting a disordered person control your relationships (personal or business) is not a good plan.

FF

[unicorn2014]

Form flier, it's not about control, it's about courtesy, and I inquired  if you had rules of engagement for members of the opposite sex. Also would it be possible to say person with a disorder as opposed to disordered person? Your wife still is a person despite her disorder. I hear a lot of contempt in your attitude towards her. Have you ever heard of the four horsemen of the gottman method? Also, it sounds like you did not think you were flirting and was looking for confirmation of that.

[Daniell85]

Everything I have seen from you, Formflier, has pretty much been a gentle attempts to redirect your wife. I don't think you were flirting. She is an emotional 5 year old. 5 year olds feel afraid and then create stories about why they are and they always find a boogieman under the bed.

I just think your wife found a boogieman to account for her fear: Loss of beloved husband and partner who is really supportive to her despite what a pill she is being. So she is jumping at anything that shows a hint of that coming loss. I am wondering if when the disaster with the house and farm came, she realized how powerless she was in the face of nature, life, and she can't ever ever lose you, what would she do without you?

Is there anything you can think of on a person relationship level with her to reassure her of your committment and love? I mean does she like little gives, or words... .what connects to her emotionally that helps her feel you are wanting her as ( sorry this sound so personal) a lover and romantic partner, not just as a life partner, mother of your kids and a wife who buys groceries, cleans the house. And 8 kids, geez, is there time and energy for it?

I mean well  

[formflier]

Form flier, it's not about control, it's about courtesy, and I inquired  if you had rules of engagement for members of the opposite sex.

We have attempted to make rules of engagement in the past.  Have made them and then my wife will re-write history and I "should have known what she meant"... .etc etc.

What is ok on one day... .is not ok on the other.  Even went so far as writing down the rules and signing them.  When she wanted to re-write history, I "forced" her to sign the paper.  The paper and the signing was her idea.  

Again... this was all before I learned about what I was dealing with.

Also would it be possible to say person with a disorder as opposed to disordered person? Your wife still is a person despite her disorder.

Yes... .possible to say it either way.  To me, same difference.

I hear a lot of contempt in your attitude towards her.

My attitude is more of "it is what it is".  When there are openings to "push" for better behavior... .I will put energy into that.  Lately, with the stress of moving, my wife has been acting up more.  I've had a long "easy" period (relatively) and have had to get my game face back on.  I think it's about back on.

Have you ever heard of the four horsemen of the gottman method? Also, it sounds like you did not think you were flirting and was looking for confirmation of that.

I looked over that four horseman thing a bit.  Never specifically used it before.

I did not think I was flirting but wanted to get other opinions on how it may seem to others.  I don't want to float along thinking I'm always right.  Maybe there is another angle.

FF

[jhkbuzz]

Thanks for all the input on this.

I can see my wife's point of view... .and that of many on here.

I find it interesting what people considering flirting.  

To me... .a flirt is something that obviously shows sexual interest in someone.

Although I fully believe your intentions were not flirtatious, I think your belief that a "flirt is something that obviously shows sexual interest" is a little off the mark.

While everyone's perceptions DO play into this topic, a "flirt" can be a subtle probe to test the waters - not overtly sexual at all.

To be honest, a man who began flirting with me by "obviously showing sexual interest" might creep me out a bit.

If I were your wife, the text would bother me as well. For me, I would be concerned about your boundaries. There is a vast difference in communication between business associates and friends. You communicated with this woman you didn't know as though she was a friend, even though she was a complete stranger and a business associate. Perhaps you were hoping to become friends?... .that's what I might think if I were your wife.

Having said all that, "to the pure all things are pure" - I believe it didn't occur to you that it might be considered flirtatious because those weren't your intentions at all.

But I wonder how you might feel about the same text if your wife sent it to another man she barely knew.