Trying to be supportive and not enabling

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hello everyone   welcome to the newcomers 

Hope everyone is doing well, I know the weekends can be difficult.

I've made it all the way down to asking myself if I'm supporting or enabling and I feel like I have something to say to that. I've read the first page and its late so I'll start a thread on that and read more later.

Many of you are familiar with my story, but not all are. I'm waiting for my long distance fiancé to get a divorce from his wife, for 3 years now. Recently I was successfully able to find some ground to stand upon within myself regarding my r/s. My fiancé has been trying to move out to my area unsuccessfully for 1.9 years and every time he tries to move out here I've asked him to wait as he is not divorced yet. That is actually what brought me to this board, 1.9 years ago I told him I wasn't comfortable with his relocation until he got his affairs in order and he threatened suicide. I called it in long distance and he ended up in a psych hospital for 1.5 weeks. Recently I asked him to have his lawyer call me to confirm he filed for divorce and he refused and I had to ask him once again to delay his move, however this time I was able to let go of the outcome and as a result our r/s has started to see a real reduction in conflict.

Today or yesterday I was able to tell him that we need to accept that our r/s is ld right now. I've made a decision that I will no longer talk about it. The ball is now in his court to do what he needs to do in order to make the r/s local. I do have empathy for him as I was in a difficult marriage myself and when my child's father and I were living in community I could not have divorced him. As soon as I was able to move out of community I was able to leave my marriage after 6 months. My fiancé was in accident that it made impossible for him to leave his marriage and when he met me started getting better because he had the will to live again.

I really appreciate the decision making guidelines and am currently working on looking in the mirror. Thank you for making these choices available to me. 

[unicorn2014]

Hello everyone   welcome to the newcomers 

Hope everyone is doing well, I know the weekends can be difficult.

I've made it all the way down to asking myself if I'm supporting or enabling and I feel like I have something to say to that. I've read the first page and its late so I'll start a thread on that and read more later.

Many of you are familiar with my story, but not all are. I'm waiting for my long distance fiancé to get a divorce from his wife, for 3 years now. Recently I was successfully able to find some ground to stand upon within myself regarding my r/s. My fiancé has been trying to move out to my area unsuccessfully for 1.9 years and every time he tries to move out here I've asked him to wait as he is not divorced yet. That is actually what brought me to this board, 1.9 years ago I told him I wasn't comfortable with his relocation until he got his affairs in order and he threatened suicide. I called it in long distance and he ended up in a psych hospital for 1.5 weeks. Recently I asked him to have his lawyer call me to confirm he filed for divorce and he refused and I had to ask him once again to delay his move, however this time I was able to let go of the outcome and as a result our r/s has started to see a real reduction in conflict.

Today or yesterday I was able to tell him that we need to accept that our r/s is ld right now. I've made a decision that I will no longer talk about it. The ball is now in his court to do what he needs to do in order to make the r/s local. I do have empathy for him as I was in a difficult marriage myself and when my child's father and I were living in community I could not have divorced him. As soon as I was able to move out of community I was able to leave my marriage after 6 months. My fiancé was in accident that it made impossible for him to leave his marriage and when he met me started getting better because he had the will to live again.

I really appreciate the decision making guidelines and am currently working on looking in the mirror. Thank you for making these choices available to me. 

[OnceConfused]

now, you are getting somewhere. You have set your boundaries and more importantly , enforce the boundaries. Stay strong.

Congrats

[unicorn2014]

Well, we've hit our second bump in the road: the subject of thanksgiving came up. Originally my fiancé was going to pay for my daughter to go see her dads side of the family by herself  since her dad can never get it together in time by himself. However this idea was based on the idea of him moving out to my location and us taking a trip together while my daughter went to see her aunt and cousins in another location. As I don't want my fiancé staying with me under the current conditions I suggested I fly out to him and meet his parents which I have yet to do. This whole subject irritates me and my fiancé told me my daughter needed to book a flight later this week. My fiancé is of course concerned about my well being and I'm livid. I told her if he didn't want to pay for her then I would but that isn't the issue. This was something he offered her with my blessing and he's still planning on following through.

I read the lesson on anger and it was geared towards those who are leaving. What about those who are undecided?

[Sunfl0wer]

I read the lesson on anger and it was geared towards those who are leaving. What about those who are undecided?

What exactly are you asking?

[unicorn2014]

I read the lesson on anger and it was geared towards those who are leaving. What about those who are undecided?

What exactly are you asking?

I'm not sure how to apply that when I am undecided and not leaving. I'll read it again and see if I can make it work. Thank you for replying.

[OnceConfused]

As I don't want my fiancé staying with me under the current conditions I suggested I fly out to him and meet his parents which I have yet to do. This whole subject irritates me

I am confused as to WHY you were irritated ? I did not see any causes here. YOU did not want him to fly out  to you so you wanted to fly to him and visit his family. That is normal in any r.s. What caused the irritation in you?

my fiancé is of course concerned about my well being and I'm livid

his concerns for you well being sounds like a good intention but you are LIVID. WHY ?

I told her if he didn't want to pay for her then I would but that isn't the issue

So what is the issue in your mind?

[unicorn2014]

Once confused, I have yet to meet his pArents after 3 years. He met my parents the first time he flew out to see me. Thanksgiving vacation is short. I'm irritated that once again my fiancé made plans based on things that hadn't happened yet.

I'm livid because when I ask my fiancé to have his lawyer call me to allay my concerns about his divorce he refuses because that humiliates him.

The issue is my fiancé was planning to move out without knowing his divorce hadn't been filed. The issue is my daughter's trip was based on me and him going somewhere else which was based on him moving which was based on him divorcing.

[Suspicious1]

I can see why you're irritated - it seems he's being incredibly flaky. I don't have anything to add, but you have some incredible staying power to have waited three years for him to initiate the divorce, and I'd be irritated too if he was doing things that he'd do if you were in a permanent stable relationship, but can't even confirm whether he's getting divorced or not yet. Does he still live with his wife?

[unicorn2014]

Hi suspicious 1, he says he filed, withdrew, and filed again. He says he didn't know his lawyer hadn't filed.

He asked his wife to move out the day after I found out he was married. That was over 3 years ago. He sold their house and moved out as well.

[OnceConfused]

I'm livid because when I ask my fiancé to have his lawyer call me to allay my concerns about his divorce he refuses because that humiliates him

you have all the rights to be livid. Personally, I have an UNEASY feeling about the divorce situation. (1) why   confirming whether or not he had filed the divorce would humiliate him? The answer is a yes or no, not something that might injure his reputation or privacy. You are involved as a fiance so he must let know you,  just a yes or no, not about the details of their settlement. Why is it so hard to file a divorce paper? what are the underlying obstacles ? . Perhaps he is trying to HIDE something. Your job now is to discover what he is trying to hide. THE TRUTH.

THe issues of getting a divorce is very IMPORTANT TO HIS R>S with you , especially he did ask you to marry him. Don't you think the basic TRUST issue is at stake here, if not already been severely damaged. They both moved out and sold their house, without much to argue or split , why the divorce filing seems so difficult ? I wonder.

"He sold their house". No, he did not sell their house. THey both did. SHe and he as coowners must sign their deed. Furthermore when the house is sold and the profit is split, then their financial entanglement is no longer complicated. 

The issue about your fiance wanting to move to your city without filing the divorce paper is a LEGITIMATE concern. A deal maker or breaker, indeed.

By the way a good, loving relationship does not require this much work and anger , especially in the courting time prior to marriage. I wonder how much more work is required after marriage.

Are you sure this r.s. is a good one for you?

[unicorn2014]

you have all the rights to be livid. Personally, I have an UNEASY feeling about the divorce situation. (1) why   confirming whether or not he had filed the divorce would humiliate him? The answer is a yes or no, not something that might injure his reputation or privacy. You are involved as a fiance so he must let know you,  just a yes or no, not about the details of their settlement. Why is it so hard to file a divorce paper? what are the underlying obstacles ? . Perhaps he is trying to HIDE something. Your job now is to discover what he is trying to hide. THE TRUTH.

He delegated the task to his attorney and his attorney didn't file. That is what he says. He said in the past I should take his word for it. Now he doesn't want to have his attorney call me because he will getting a new attorney.

THe issues of getting a divorce is very IMPORTANT TO HIS R>S with you , especially he did ask you to marry him. Don't you think the basic TRUST issue is at stake here, if not already been severely damaged. They both moved out and sold their house, without much to argue or split , why the divorce filing seems so difficult ? I wonder.

He asked her to move out, she did, then he sold the house and moved out later. There is a lot more to argue about and split then the house. He said he filed the divorce and his attorney didn't file the divorce.

"He sold their house". No, he did not sell their house. THey both did. SHe and he as coowners must sign their deed. Furthermore when the house is sold and the profit is split, then their financial entanglement is no longer complicated. 

The house was only one of their assets.

The issue about your fiance wanting to move to your city without filing the divorce paper is a LEGITIMATE concern. A deal maker or breaker, indeed.

Yes and he called off his move and he's irritated because he lost a deposit on a storage place. He really thought the divorce had been filed, he says.

By the way a good, loving relationship does not require this much work and anger , especially in the courting time prior to marriage. I wonder how much more work is required after marriage.

I agree with this, but since the primary obstacle is his legal marriage to someone else, I don't think there will be much this work after marriage, if we ever get to that point.

Are you sure this r.s. is a good one for you?

This man has shown the most outgoing concern for me, my daughter and frankly my whole family. I was single for 7 years before I met him. If things did not work out I would not get in another relationship before my daughter turned 18. I was ready to go it alone until she became an adult. I chose him because I thought he was suitable for me. I did not know his divorce was going to be this much of a hassle. He had alluded to that being a possibility but I did not know that this issue of filing would come up so late in the relationship.

I need to read about the BPD behavior of splitting next and see if I can write about that.

[Learning Fast]

Hi Unicorn,

I may have missed this from earlier in one of your posts, but how often do you see your fiance?  How many times have you seen him since you first met?  Have you seen him less frequently since the divorce issue has escalated?

[unicorn2014]

Hi Unicorn,

I may have missed this from earlier in one of your posts, but how often do you see your fiance?  How many times have you seen him since you first met?  Have you seen him less frequently since the divorce issue has escalated?

We used to see each other about every 6 weeks or so, I haven't seen him since June. I asked him to show me the papers before he saw me again.

[myself]

Is he trying to get his money back from the lawyer he paid who supposedly didn't file for him? How is he following through with that, by just getting another lawyer? What's taking so long to get the 'new' papers filed? Isn't this important proof for him to show you? I know that when I was served with divorce papers, there wasn't very much time between my now-ex wife filing and the guy showing up at the door with them. Certainly not as long as this is taking. He's lucky to have someone being so "supportive."

[unicorn2014]

Is he trying to get his money back from the lawyer he paid who supposedly didn't file for him? How is he following through with that, by just getting another lawyer? What's taking so long to get the 'new' papers filed? Isn't this important proof for him to show you? I know that when I was served with divorce papers, there wasn't very much time between my now-ex wife filing and the guy showing up at the door with them. Certainly not as long as this is taking. He's lucky to have someone being so "supportive."

I do not know what he is trying to do. I do know he went and interviewed another lawyer last week. I do not know what is taking so long to get the papers filed. It could be the other things he has to do on top of getting a divorce. I'm not so sure I want to base my relationship around him showing me proof.

I do know he changed his plans and will not be moving out to be with me until his divorce gets set in motion. That was the terms of the boundary that were suggested to me: remain long distance and do not make demands or accusations. That is what I am trying to abide by.  He did promise me escrow papers by the end of the week. My topic title was directly taken from the workshops. I'm trying to base all my post on the workshops and lessons. That is why I said I was trying to be supportive and not enabling. I am supportive of him getting a divorce but I'm not going to enable him by finding all the little things that went wrong with his divorce process and tell him what to do about it. That's up to him to figure out. I just discovered that his papers weren't filed with the court. What he does with that is up to him, but I have told him he needs to stay where he is until he figures that out.

[OnceConfused]

He delegated the task to his attorney and his attorney didn't file. That is what he says. He said in the past I should take his word for it. Now he doesn't want to have his attorney call me because he will getting a new attorney.

Again this to me is a huge red flag that something is NOT RIGHT.

I have yet to meet his pArents after 3 years

This is another RED FLAG. Would you want your children to at least introduce YOU to their fiance?

I do not know what he is trying to do. I do know he went and interviewed another lawyer last week. I do not know what is taking so long to get the papers filed. It could be the other things he has to do on top of getting a divorce.

There are too many "I DO NOT KNOW" here. Why can you ask him DIRECTLY, since this divorce filing is a big issue?

This man has shown the most outgoing concern for me, my daughter and frankly my whole family.

I am happy for you that he has shown such an attitude. It seems to me that this attitude has overshadowed the other RED FLAGS at hand. Furthermore, you have to remember that you have only been/seen with him about 10 times per years (once every 6 weeks, right?) or 30 times in the past 3 years. So the face-to-face time has been limited.

In a long distance relationship there are always the enamoring factor of a short time visit where many conflicts or negative feelings are suppressed,  but that is so different from being married when you are in each other's face 24/7 (you have been married before so you surely have experienced what I say here). So you need more face-to-face time to experience the r.s in various circumstances - the good and also the bad moments, so as to determine your compatibility for long term acceptance.

having said that, I could think of another scenario where he can move to  your city and lives in a separate apartment. Now you will have more time and occasions for face-to-face time and experience different circumstances before you actually are living together. This way if something become not right, the split is much easier.

[Learning Fast]

Unicorn,

One of the most critical and important lessons that we all have learned from those on this site is this---believe ACTIONS, not WORDS.

This is very hard to accept and process as we want to believe in our hears that our SOs are truthful.  A very defining moment for you will be if your fiancé produces the promised escrow papers this week.  What will be your next step if he doesn't?

[unicorn2014]

I have yet to meet his pArents after 3 years

This is another RED FLAG. Would you want your children to at least introduce YOU to their fiance?

I am sorry for the delay in my response, for some reason I did not get notified. Thank you for your continued participation in my thread.

He had not been in contact with his parents until now. He also lives in another state so he would have to fly me out there. He also has a hostile wife who he felt was a threat to be before.

I do not know what he is trying to do. I do know he went and interviewed another lawyer last week. I do not know what is taking so long to get the papers filed. It could be the other things he has to do on top of getting a divorce.

There are too many "I DO NOT KNOW" here. Why can you ask him DIRECTLY, since this divorce filing is a big issue?

I did ask him today and he told me he talked to two people that are divorced for lawyer recommendations and we are going to talk about it again on Tuesday.

This man has shown the most outgoing concern for me, my daughter and frankly my whole family.

I am happy for you that he has shown such an attitude. It seems to me that this attitude has overshadowed the other RED FLAGS at hand. Furthermore, you have to remember that you have only been/seen with him about 10 times per years (once every 6 weeks, right?) or 30 times in the past 3 years. So the face-to-face time has been limited.

In a long distance relationship there are always the enamoring factor of a short time visit where many conflicts or negative feelings are suppressed,  but that is so different from being married when you are in each other's face 24/7 (you have been married before so you surely have experienced what I say here). So you need more face-to-face time to experience the r.s in various circumstances - the good and also the bad moments, so as to determine your compatibility for long term acceptance.

having said that, I could think of another scenario where he can move to  your city and lives in a separate apartment. Now you will have more time and occasions for face-to-face time and experience different circumstances before you actually are living together. This way if something become not right, the split is much easier.

These visits were not short, 10 days to two weeks, sometimes they were 6 weeks apart sometimes 2-3 months.

My religion prevents cohabitation.

I am definitely not enamored of my fiancé. I lost that feeling after he threatened to commit suicide when I asked him to delay his move 1.9 years ago.

I need to remind you I was married once before so I know what that's like. You should also know that nothing everything has been peachy keen when my fiancé came to see me. He had untreated ptsd until very recently. I'm well aware of my fiance's triggers, I have already experienced them first hand.

I want to refocus the attention on the topic, how to be supportive and not enabling. I want to support my fiancé in getting a divorce from his wife. I know what its like to be trapped in a marriage and not be able to get out due to circumstances. My circumstances were living in community, my fiancé's circumstances were having an accident. Now that he is better he can leave. I don't want him to leave on account of me but on account of the bad marriage. He was already sleeping apart from her when I met him, but he didn't have the physical ability to physically leave, he was physically disabled when I met him and when he met me he got back his will to live.

[unicorn2014]

Unicorn,

One of the most critical and important lessons that we all have learned from those on this site is this---believe ACTIONS, not WORDS.

This is very hard to accept and process as we want to believe in our hears that our SOs are truthful.  A very defining moment for you will be if your fiancé produces the promised escrow papers this week.  What will be your next step if he doesn't?

I do not know, we have a scheduled talk on Tuesday about the divorce so I can wait till then. We are currently dealing with a crisis with my daughter which we have to deal with on Saturday first. I can wait till Tuesday and ask him then. If he doesn't have them? That's going to be a problem.