Arguments About Things You Did Not Say

[Depression = 72% of members]

How often do you get into it with your spouse about something they are saying that you said that you did not say?  Just a while ago, my wife called to see if we could sit down and talk about an independent business I was interested in getting in to.  Since I work for the government, I have to get approval to work another job due to the conflict of interest factor.  I told her that I haven't gotten word back from the head office whether I can do this or not because they had some concerns.  She said they probably have the same concern she has.  She thinks it's a fraud.  I told her that their concern was related to conflict of interest, they don't look into anything else.  She got mad because she took it as me trying to shoot down her concern or make excuses to contradict her concern.  She then told me that I just said they were worried it's a scam.  I never said that at all; she was implying that.  I told her I did not say that and she argued me down saying I was changing up the story now and didn't want to admit that I said that.  She asked why would she say that if I didn't first say they thought it was a scam.  Perhaps because those were your thoughts in the first place!  As usual while I was in the middle of trying to state my point, she cut me off and decided to get off the phone.  Anytime she has an opinion or feeling about something, she gets mad if you don't agree or go along with it.  This wasn't even a case about me disagreeing or not about her thoughts.  I was just stating what my bosses told me. So infuriating!

[dacoming]

How often do you get into it with your spouse about something they are saying that you said that you did not say?  Just a while ago, my wife called to see if we could sit down and talk about an independent business I was interested in getting in to.  Since I work for the government, I have to get approval to work another job due to the conflict of interest factor.  I told her that I haven't gotten word back from the head office whether I can do this or not because they had some concerns.  She said they probably have the same concern she has.  She thinks it's a fraud.  I told her that their concern was related to conflict of interest, they don't look into anything else.  She got mad because she took it as me trying to shoot down her concern or make excuses to contradict her concern.  She then told me that I just said they were worried it's a scam.  I never said that at all; she was implying that.  I told her I did not say that and she argued me down saying I was changing up the story now and didn't want to admit that I said that.  She asked why would she say that if I didn't first say they thought it was a scam.  Perhaps because those were your thoughts in the first place!  As usual while I was in the middle of trying to state my point, she cut me off and decided to get off the phone.  Anytime she has an opinion or feeling about something, she gets mad if you don't agree or go along with it.  This wasn't even a case about me disagreeing or not about her thoughts.  I was just stating what my bosses told me. So infuriating!

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[Chilibean13]

I often experience this. Sadly it's a futile argument because it comes down to he said she said. I know that I am correct in what I say because I've had to have "No, I said this... ." conversations for years and I know that my H. remembers according to his feelings. I usually just end these conversations with "I think we've had a miscommunication. Let's start over."

[dacoming]

I try to do the same but she always gets into this, "I think I am perfect" thing, accusing me of not wanting to admit I was wrong.  This is petty so I'm not going to bring it up again but she probably will once I get home.  She will probably create another scenario so she can flip and say I said something else and then pile the other incident on as "proof" I always do this to her. 

[ColdEthyl]

I have these arguments. I have even had my husband literally put his hands over his ears like a child to 'not hear' what I have to say. Like Chilibean said, the best thing to do is just say you have a miscommunication and move on

[Hope26]

Yes, and Chilibean had it exactly right when she said "I know my H remembers according to his feelings" with the operative word being FEELINGS.  They don't remember the facts of a discussion.  There is no logic involved.

Once when my H was raging at me at night, I said, "We shouldn't ever go to bed angry at each other.  Wouldn't it be awful if these were our last words to each other, and one of us didn't wake up in the morning?"

  Two silent days later, he said to me, "Well, you didn't get your wish.  I still keep waking up in the morning."  I was horrified by his implication that he thought I WISHED he wouldn't wake up.

No logic, just feelings, and at times very distorted ones.

[CharWood]

My gosh, my ex is a pro at this. PHD in gaslighting she has.


Like yesterday, a person texted me on Sunday, a mutual friend. It was something as simple as recanting my conversation with my friend and her saying I told her I never spoke to him - I never said that!

Or, she will say that I said a snooty remark to her that I never said. It is insane.

She can turn it around though and deny that she ever did or said something... .like it never happened. even sometimes take something she says and say that I SAID IT. it is insane!

[flourdust]

Yes, and Chilibean had it exactly right when she said "I know my H remembers according to his feelings" with the operative word being FEELINGS.  They don't remember the facts of a discussion.  There is no logic involved.

Once when my H was raging at me at night, I said, "We shouldn't ever go to bed angry at each other.  Wouldn't it be awful if these were our last words to each other, and one of us didn't wake up in the morning?"

  Two silent days later, he said to me, "Well, you didn't get your wish.  I still keep waking up in the morning."  I was horrified by his implication that he thought I WISHED he wouldn't wake up.

No logic, just feelings, and at times very distorted ones.

This is my life. During last night's circular argument, I took a break when it started to ramp up to rage. I said my usual line, "I'm going to take a break. I'll come back when things are calmer." The wording is deliberate.

When I came back, she was angry about me making all fights her fault and dependent on her controlling her emotions. She based this on me saying "I'll come back when you calm down."

It doesn't matter what I say or how carefully I parse the words (when I'm able to exert that much foresight and self-control). They'll just go through the BPD filter and turn into something that can be used against me.

[waverider]

A pwBPDs "context" is always driven by their own thoughts and emotions of the moment. These are supplanted over facts whether present, or retrieved from memory. It is what she heard as that is what she was thinking and when she listens to you they are listening for words and interpretations to fit around her context to validate her opinion.

Hence the kangaroo court we often find ourselves in. The judgement is already made and they are just looking for evidence to justify it.

State your reality and move on, anything else just invalidates their reality, and round you go.

[dacoming]

Since she does this all the time, gas lighting me and trying to make me think I'm crazy, I am extra careful what I say, although it doesn't matter because she will change it around anyway.  My point is I make sure I'm paying attention to what I say so that I know, "It's just her doing her thing again."  I wish there was a way we could record every conversation we have so that we could rewind the tape and listen when these things come up.  She probably would just get mad because "I'm always trying to debate and prove her wrong."  She keeps accusing me of never admitting my wrong but I can't recall her doing that.  She always says she does though.  I think when she brings it up again, I will just try to let it go and nicely tell her I don't want to fight with her... .things have been going great and I want it to continue.

[Flexion]

Since she does this all the time, gas lighting me and trying to make me think I'm crazy, I am extra careful what I say, although it doesn't matter because she will change it around anyway.  My point is I make sure I'm paying attention to what I say so that I know, "It's just her doing her thing again."  I wish there was a way we could record every conversation we have so that we could rewind the tape and listen when these things come up.  She probably would just get mad because "I'm always trying to debate and prove her wrong."  She keeps accusing me of never admitting my wrong but I can't recall her doing that.  She always says she does though.  I think when she brings it up again, I will just try to let it go and nicely tell her I don't want to fight with her... .things have been going great and I want it to continue.

After many conversations and things being twisted, I offered to wire our house so I can hear where I was wrong. She said I was crazy and blew up! . Probably not the right approach, but when you've tried everything, it's an option. I have told her that we haven't spoken in 4 days verbally outside of text messages. I went on to say let's go back through them to see what was said and who was abusing. Well, I am retarded (her words) for even thinking about using text messages! Um, but if that's the only communication, then it's right... .correct?

I try to pay attention to how I say things. She gets pissed because I'm usually looking into her eyes while thinking "what the hell can i say without causing a bomb to go off." It just doesn't matter in my situation. SHe will start on me about small things ( which appear innocent) and sooner or later, she goes off. She baits and baits and baits until she gets a hint of frustration from me. Never attack her, but if I call out the nonsense, she explodes into rage.

T

[Cat Familiar]

I try to do the same but she always gets into this, "I think I am perfect" thing, accusing me of not wanting to admit I was wrong. 

My husband frequently accused me of thinking I'm "perfect," which infuriates me. Lately I've avoided that by refusing to JADE when he starts recounting a misinterpretation of something I've said.

I just ignore it and move on.

I think the problem starts when we assume they're capable of rational discussion about something they're emotionally amped up about. If they were "normal" then it would make sense to try to let them know that they've misheard or misinterpreted something we've said. But they're not "normal" and this just inflames them more and invalidates them.

It bugs me when he ascribes ill motives upon me, but defending myself and explaining just makes it worse. Then he's sure I'm up to no good.

[formflier]

 

I used to use texts against her... .also recorded my wife and "proved my point"

Basically... .I was good at winning arguments.  Would usually "spike the ball" to really prove that I was honest... .

Yeah... .our relationship sucked.  I invalidated her at every opportunity... .and it became so commonplace that I probably sounded like the charlie brown teacher... ."waaa... .waaa... ."

Most of the time now... .she blows of some ridiculous statement...

I first think... .does it matter.  Many times I don't respond at all if it doesn't matter.

I'll sometimes try active listening... ."just to get it right"... .many times she will back down...

If it matters... .then I state my truth... .clearly... .once.  :)rop it and move along.  

I rarely say she is lying.  Sometimes I will state the truth and then say "You may believe otherwise... .that's your business... .I've stated my truth" (note... didn't say "the" truth)

Many times I can see that statement has an impact... .that she heard it.  I believe she hears it because it is rarely used.

Hope this helps... .

FF

[waverider]

As soon as you flat out deny their version of reality, then all thoughts of the issue are lost and it becomes an escalating battle for them to bully you into submission no matter what, and the issue goes off topic, and they search their memory banks to reassemble weapons of proof.

Your denial puts them in victim mode and you will be handed the bully cap to wear, and they may even go off in search of a rescuer to back that up.

There are no winners even if you do prove your point beyond doubt, so its a shallow victory, and becomes further proof to them as to why "you think you are perfect" to be used in future.

[pineapple78]

For me it happens all the time. I always experienced it as though my wife heard what ever helped reinforce the feeling or emotion she had at the time. Its impossible to argue because it is completely real to her and she can not conceive of it being otherwise. Its caused me to go into such great detail when speaking with her that Im aware I go on and on, but its to try and make sure I am not miss quoted. She thinks of it as a lecture, but for me its trying to get my true intentions across in as much detail as possible so they are not twisted. It makes me so frustrated and that in turn gets misread as anger.

I have even said things to my wife when she is in this upset state and she has answered with something that has not made sense given what I just said. Ive then asked her to repeat what I said to her and she will say something totally different to what I was saying. Its as though the interpretation of what she believes my evil intentions are gets overlayed onto what she hears from me.

I find the hardest part is that these things get saved up as grievances for the next time she is angry and brought back to help define me as the bad guy. And its impossible to argue with them because to her they are facts.

Unfortunately I'm a stubborn and self righteous kind of guy and find it hard to back down and just let things go when Im being judged by things I have not said. I recently heard something on a youtube aimed at helping people with BPD that really helped me in this situation. Sometimes its better to be "effective" rather than "right". I think this will take some time for me to learn as a skill!

[formflier]

Unfortunately I'm a stubborn and self righteous kind of guy and find it hard to back down and just let things go when Im being judged by things I have not said. I recently heard something on a youtube aimed at helping people with BPD that really helped me in this situation. Sometimes its better to be "effective" rather than "right". I think this will take some time for me to learn as a skill!

This is so true... .  I had a hard time with this.  Truth is a big deal to me.  Focusing on being effective is something I'm still working on.

Also... .my other though to add to this thread... .Arguments about things you did not say.

I think a value can be established and lived out.

"I will not discuss thought I don't have and things I haven't said"

That can be followed up by possibly clarifying that your partner is welcome to discuss them all they want... .you don't control your partner.  All you control is that you won't be involved in that discussion.

FF

[ColdEthyl]

This is the same problem for me. I am a brutally honest person, and dealing with my husband, even though I logically know about BPD, is tough. I sometimes try to 'talk sense' as if he can do that.

pineapple78:

"I have even said things to my wife when she is in this upset state and she has answered with something that has not made sense given what I just said. Ive then asked her to repeat what I said to her and she will say something totally different to what I was saying. Its as though the interpretation of what she believes my evil intentions are gets overlayed onto what she hears from me."

I have done this, and it goes as terrible as you can imagine. I even tried to record him once so he could hear himself... .also a bad move. I have even had him literally put his hands over his ears like a child so he couldn't 'hear' what I was saying.

I'm trying to learn the skill of active listening. Often, once he starts talking and he says something false, my automatic reaction is to start my defense in my head. I hate being called a liar more than anything else, so it's a trigger for me. But, if I can get to the point where I listen to the entirety of what he's saying, I can usually decipher what the root of the problem really is.


FF:

"I will not discuss thought I don't have and things I haven't said"

"I rarely say she is lying.  Sometimes I will state the truth and then say "You may believe otherwise... .that's your business... .I've stated my truth" (note... didn't say "the" truth)"

I am adding these statements to my lexicon. I have used your "help me understand' in the past with wonderful results. I appreciate your presence on this board!

[dacoming]

Yeah that's my problem too, I don't like my character attacked.  Particularly in a manner that makes me out to be a terrible and malicious person when I haven't done anything.  And then to drive her point home by saying I need to get some help because of my "ways" and say I have a hard time admitting those wrongs and should not do those things if it embarrasses me to face it... .ughhh!