I need to rant since I have no one to talk to.

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I have not vented for a long time and I need to release some stress.

I'm sick of a lot of things I put up with for way too long. I blame myself since I should have the human ability to give my opinion.  Let me explain my typical days.

I wake up at 445 am. (I don't mind mornings)

I iron my wife's clothes (Wait why? She is capable.)

I make my lunch. And hers. (Again she is capable.)

I got to work. (My safe haven and I enjoy it a lot. Although I have a long commute because I said she should take her current job as its her "dream job". Turns out she hates it. Now is getting ready for a new job that pays less.)

By 8 am I am required by her to email my daily schedule. (never mind that I left her a note every single morning saying the same thing. Also hell is to be paid if that are forgotten)

After work I send her a text that I ma leaving. She texts me until she is done at 5 then expects me to call until she walks in the doors.

I get her bath ready. (Again she is capable but I do this prior to her walking in the door.)

She will leave her clothes on the floor. (9time so out of 10 expects me to put in hamper. Gets angry if I don't)

Oh she will also leave her bras in the sink expecting them to magically get cleaned. (Yes by me.  :'( )


Here is an example of a weekend that just happened where I did everything I can think of to make it as special as I could... .She has been wanting to run a half marathon for a while. She finally scheduled one at a very isolated resort island on the last weekend they were open. She was worried for weeks leading up to it that the hills were too much and the weather was going to be horrible. I was a pillar of positive energy. I told her she could do it and she was strong and I would be proud regardless if she had to stop and walk some because a hill was too steep as long as she tried her best. For 2 weeks I was nothing but positive. positive comments for every negative one she had. And she had a lot. Finally the day is here and she does exactly what I told her she would do. She posts the time she wanted. And never stopped even for the hills that were plentiful and the pouring down rain for half the race. I carried all her bags off the island for her (she was exhausted). I massaged her back and her legs and her back for 2 days. I bought her a necklace with the roman numerals for 13.1 and a card that said... ."She believed... .so she did!"   We got home and I catered to her every need (most of it high praise for her accomplishment). Then at 9:30 that night as we were getting ready for bed she says I'm mad at you. Your a jerk.  ( "What the heck!" huh? Now what did I do)  She was angry I didn't try to have sex which is what she needs to have that shows her I care.

So that brings up my last point and a question. Since sex is what drives her feeling to know I care and am engaged in her feeling and thoughts it like all the other tasks I do for her has now become a mandatory requirement. Some guys would be elated to have this problem. But I suspect when sex becomes a required priority for feelings and not a release of them it won't feel so awesome.  All the things that I did as a loving gesture like leave a note in the morning or rub her feet or pick up her dirty clothes has now become a mandatory daily requirement punishable by a tongue lashing. Sex is now exactly the same thing. If I don't make an attempt she is pissed. Oh and not just any attempt has to be made. A romantic sweep her off  her feet kind. Every single day. It is not even possible to do that. I know I have tried. So the question... Has anyone else had this happen where sex is so expected it isn't even fun anymore. Never thought I would ever say that.

[Cipher13]

I have not vented for a long time and I need to release some stress.

I'm sick of a lot of things I put up with for way too long. I blame myself since I should have the human ability to give my opinion.  Let me explain my typical days.

I wake up at 445 am. (I don't mind mornings)

I iron my wife's clothes (Wait why? She is capable.)

I make my lunch. And hers. (Again she is capable.)

I got to work. (My safe haven and I enjoy it a lot. Although I have a long commute because I said she should take her current job as its her "dream job". Turns out she hates it. Now is getting ready for a new job that pays less.)

By 8 am I am required by her to email my daily schedule. (never mind that I left her a note every single morning saying the same thing. Also hell is to be paid if that are forgotten)

After work I send her a text that I ma leaving. She texts me until she is done at 5 then expects me to call until she walks in the doors.

I get her bath ready. (Again she is capable but I do this prior to her walking in the door.)

She will leave her clothes on the floor. (9time so out of 10 expects me to put in hamper. Gets angry if I don't)

Oh she will also leave her bras in the sink expecting them to magically get cleaned. (Yes by me.  :'( )


Here is an example of a weekend that just happened where I did everything I can think of to make it as special as I could... .She has been wanting to run a half marathon for a while. She finally scheduled one at a very isolated resort island on the last weekend they were open. She was worried for weeks leading up to it that the hills were too much and the weather was going to be horrible. I was a pillar of positive energy. I told her she could do it and she was strong and I would be proud regardless if she had to stop and walk some because a hill was too steep as long as she tried her best. For 2 weeks I was nothing but positive. positive comments for every negative one she had. And she had a lot. Finally the day is here and she does exactly what I told her she would do. She posts the time she wanted. And never stopped even for the hills that were plentiful and the pouring down rain for half the race. I carried all her bags off the island for her (she was exhausted). I massaged her back and her legs and her back for 2 days. I bought her a necklace with the roman numerals for 13.1 and a card that said... ."She believed... .so she did!"   We got home and I catered to her every need (most of it high praise for her accomplishment). Then at 9:30 that night as we were getting ready for bed she says I'm mad at you. Your a jerk.  ( "What the heck!" huh? Now what did I do)  She was angry I didn't try to have sex which is what she needs to have that shows her I care.

So that brings up my last point and a question. Since sex is what drives her feeling to know I care and am engaged in her feeling and thoughts it like all the other tasks I do for her has now become a mandatory requirement. Some guys would be elated to have this problem. But I suspect when sex becomes a required priority for feelings and not a release of them it won't feel so awesome.  All the things that I did as a loving gesture like leave a note in the morning or rub her feet or pick up her dirty clothes has now become a mandatory daily requirement punishable by a tongue lashing. Sex is now exactly the same thing. If I don't make an attempt she is pissed. Oh and not just any attempt has to be made. A romantic sweep her off  her feet kind. Every single day. It is not even possible to do that. I know I have tried. So the question... Has anyone else had this happen where sex is so expected it isn't even fun anymore. Never thought I would ever say that.

[Confused#2]

Hi

I am so sorry you are having such a bad experience. You really tried to make her run great and was very supportive. It seems from the number of posts you have been on the site for a while. My question is how do you take care of yourself?  Hope you feel better and just remember that you need to to care of you too. Maybe you do this and just had to vent due to the treatment you received this weekend.  I know I would not want to have sex on demand since it seems like a control issue. Again, hope you feel better. Good Luck.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Cipher13, Why are you doing things for your W that she is perfectly capable of doing for herself?  Presumably because (like many of us Nons) you are codependent; you seek your value and worth through her, rather than from within; you take care of her in order to avoid taking care of yourself; you believe you deserve to be treated poorly because on some level you don't love and accept yourself.  In sum, it's an unhealthy dynamic for all.  No wonder you need to vent.  Time to change the game?  It's up to you.

LuckyJim

[Cipher13]

I suppose as you can tell I am doing little to nothing to keep myself healthy. I spend energy tending to her and keeping her from melting down on me.  I am never going to get over this while in this relationship.

Had a brief talk with her last night after I spent 30 minutes propping up her self esteem (still about the race) in how I believed she could complete the race. Then after her not recalling something I said she mentioned previously that evening that was demanding of me. She told me she never said that and I made that up and I always do that. That is how I think of her. I said what did we talk about on that walk? She said oh you never meant that. You should be every single day begging for forgiveness. I asked if some day I would get that forgiveness and then I can use that energy to focus on more positive outlets for our relationship. She got very angry and said just do what I freaking ask you damn it.

I hate what my life has become.

[Wrongturn1]

Wow, after all you do each day, it's impressive that you would have any energy at all left to deliver the goods in the bedroom on demand.  Not to mention the way she treats you... .if you actually wanted to have sex with someone who treats you that way, that would probably be just as dysfunctional as her BPD.  So yeah, I could totally see how this sort of "mandatory" sex with your abuser would not be fun.   

[Grey Kitty]

I'm sick of a lot of things I put up with for way too long. I blame myself since I should have the human ability to give my opinion.  Let me explain my typical days.

You are sick of it.

I can't blame you; it sounds pretty crappy in a lot of ways. And I recall you describing similar things a year or two back; I don't see indication that it is getting better.

Do you want to change it, or just vent a bit, then go back to living that way?

Has anyone else had this happen where sex is so expected it isn't even fun anymore. Never thought I would ever say that.

No, I never had it happen that way. I do remember one time when I didn't want to have sex, and, well, the term for what she did is rape. I said no, and she went ahead anyway. While it wasn't always that bad, and this only happened once, there were other things that happened in and around sex that hurt me at least as much (even if they weren't rape).

However I can say one thing for you--She is being abusive. That includes her behavior around sex.

A healthy woman who wants to have sex with you would ask directly... .or at least flirt and indicate indirectly.

Expecting you to KNOW that she wants/expects/needs sex, and blaming you for not reading her mind and initiating is abusive. Especially if she often refuses when you do initiate as a way to be more abusive toward you. It doesn't matter WHAT you do, she will twist reality around to turn it into an attack on her... .then proceed to BATTER YOU because you 'attacked' her.

As long as you tolerate the abuse it will continue. And escalate. That is what happens in abusive relationships. They escalate until something changes.

You can change your role. You can stop accepting abuse. I know. I've been there. Are you ready?

[GaGrl]

As I recall, you said your sleep is frequently interrupted also -- because when she needs to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night, you get up and take her there (afraid of the dark of something?).  I remember thinking this was one of the most over-the-top dysfunctional situations I had ever heard of.

So... .here you are, about 18 months or so later.

You hate your life.

No one can change your life except you.

What do you choose?  Remain?  Change the dynamic?  Leave?

I suspect you may be one of those people whose option to leave requires that you have legal advice and an exit plan that ensures that all communications go through your lawyer -- total, lock-down, No Contact.  That means new address, new phone number, new email, etc. etc. so that you can put aside the old ones and not answer communications, and have new technology that gives you some breathing room.

What are your thoughts?

[Cipher13]

I suspect you may be one of those people whose option to leave requires that you have legal advice and an exit plan that ensures that all communications go through your lawyer -- total, lock-down, No Contact.  That means new address, new phone number, new email, etc. etc. so that you can put aside the old ones and not answer communications, and have new technology that gives you some breathing room.

To this I would say WITNESS RELOCATION PLAN.!

Yes I need that. I'd get over the feeling s of guilt eventually. The No Contact would make that easier to handle. I am also the kind that if she left or started the proceedings then I would not beg to come back. But I would have to be in my new secured location.

[Grey Kitty]

Well, get on with it, man.

Plan out what you need to do in order to vanish out of her life and find your own life. Make a real plan, find out what resources you can get and what support you can get and what your legal options are--talk to a lawyer, perhaps a domestic violence shelter, and anybody in town you can trust. Put together whatever you need to zip out of the house with your own bare essentials (phone, cash, ID, credit cards, perhaps computer, a change of clothes, spare keys for anything you might need access to, etc.) [Have you posted anything on the legal board yet?]

Knowing what you do will make you feel safer and give you more options.

At that point, if you want to try standing up and refusing to accept the abuse and control, you at least have a prepared escape plan should it go wrong.

Whatever you decide to do, we're in your corner, ready to help you work out how to do it best.

Hang in there man... .changing things is tough. But the only way your life will change for the better is if you make the changes yourself.

[HopefulDad]

Cipher, if someone else posted this story, what would be your reaction and advice?

Yes, your story is as ridiculous as it sounds.  If this pretty much sums up your life, then I think you know change has to happen.  I don't think you would ever advise someone to maintain the status quo.

[SurfNTurf]

Cipher... .will you marry me?  Just kidding, I wish my husb were as attentive as you!

I'm truly sorry you are feeling this way. But I have to agree with Hopeful, what your reaction and advice be if someone else posted your story/experiences?

If you really want out, but having trouble getting out, domestic violence offices aren't just for women anymore. They are great at helping you 'disappear'. But you must be ready to do so.

And yes, I get the whole sex thing. My uBPDhusb only feels loved when he has sex. I used to think it was just b/c he's a guy, but after reading so many BPD behaviors on this site, it's not just a guy thing, it's a BPD thing, and no one wants to have sex with someone who treats them like a doormat the rest of the time.

[Cipher13]

Cipher, if someone else posted this story, what would be your reaction and advice?

I've thought about this and of course my answer is different than my own actions are. I'd tell them to find any and all ways to get out of there. I know I want to but can't muster up what I need to get going.

Another incident of verbal insults and put downs where lashed out because I didn't attempt to fulfill my husbandly duties. Or I should correct that the attempt was there but it was too late. It was also of course an expected requirement. And because it was too late I was an f-ing loser, no good a-hole. And that's the nice version. Tack on it was on purpose and I treat her like crap and never loved her. I must be getting it from someplace else... .You get it.

[Grey Kitty]

Cipher, if someone else posted this story, what would be your reaction and advice?

I've thought about this and of course my answer is different than my own actions are. I'd tell them to find any and all ways to get out of there. I know I want to but can't muster up what I need to get going.

Let me ask you a different question.

You state very clearly that you aren't getting out of there.

How is staying in this relationship serving you?

[Cipher13]

How is staying in this relationship serving you?

It makes me miserable. Its all I think about day and night. I have a saying I say to myself very consistently. "I hate being in this relationship. I hate being married." 

That's a horrible thing to thing about all day long and all night.

[Grey Kitty]

How is staying in this relationship serving you?

It makes me miserable. Its all I think about day and night. I have a saying I say to myself very consistently. "I hate being in this relationship. I hate being married." 

That's a horrible thing to thing about all day long and all night.

That isn't what I mean. Yes, you have identified problems with it, and I'm not disagreeing with them.

However, if you weren't getting SOME benefit from it, you would have left years ago. And you clearly are still in it today.

Do you have any idea how it is serving you?

(Hint: When you figure it out, it may not sound all that healthy)

[Waddams]

However, if you weren't getting SOME benefit from it, you would have left years ago. And you clearly are still in it today.

Do you have any idea how it is serving you?

Just a theory, but Cipher's been posting here for a long time now.  This is just based on an almagation of the various threads I've read, and maybe it's not true.  It's just my overall impression at the moment.

I think Cipher knows things are very wrong in his marriage.  At least the way he posts, it seems there is likely very little chance of things recovering and getting better.  Now, maybe that's influenced by a sense of hopelessness and depression, maybe reality is somewhat different, we can't know based on forum postings, we can only give input on what information we are given, which is limited to Cipher's posts.  So given that constraint, we have to go with the impression Cipher gives which is that things are pretty bleak.

The overall pattern I see is one of control through fear.  Cipher is terrified of his wife.  Plain and simple.  He is afraid of not pleasing her, he is afraid of her being unhappy not just with him but also her being unhappy about other things.  Cipher walks on egg shells constantly in everything he does and does not do as a result.  He is totally afraid of doing anything and at the same time afraid of doing nothing.  His wife launches into her rages and abuses no matter what he does or does not do.  It has resulted in complete state of paralysis for him.

It's really a fear response.  We're all familiar with the fight or flight difference in response?  Well I think there's a 3rd response, and that's to freeze.  I've seen it in others, they totally lock up, freeze and can't do a thing.  It's why a person might just stand there when a car is bearing down on them at high speed.  Fear strikes and they freeze and can't do anything but stand there wide-eyed.  I think that's where Cipher's at, and it's the result of anything and everything, any response, no matter how well intentioned or aimed at resolving issues and moving forward, everything gets twisted around and thrown back at him in anger.  Nothing has ever worked, even doing what she asks without question, and he's been subjected to that for so long, now he's just in a state of perpetual freeze.

However, if you weren't getting SOME benefit from it, you would have left years ago. And you clearly are still in it today.

I think this is true for a vast majority of us that end up on sites like these, but not 100%.  What I've seen in Cipher's posts over time is he doesn't feel like he gets any benefit from anything.

So I'll come at this from a different perspective and ask an alternative question and maybe he'll come back and discuss it and maybe he won't but:

If I'm right that's there's an element of freeze reaction in response to fear, Cipher can you figure out a way to break through that freeze reaction and start to act for yourself and your own needs?  What's it take?  And what do you do? and how do you do it and how do you maintain it when she attacks and tries to break you down?  It's not easy, and it takes reaching down and summoning some new strength.  Honestly you have to be to look at her and say "do your worst" in a way.

I know I've frozen like that before in some situations and it was always rooted in not knowing what to do.  I couldn't react with anger or just hit back, and no attempt at reasoning would work either.  So I froze because I didn't know what to do.  I just did nothing.  I was able to break through it by figuring out the underlying dynamics in those situations and deciding ahead of time before the next incident exactly what my response would be.  Then implementing it when the time came and sticking to it as she tried to break me down.  In fact, I was able to anticipate correctly what she would do, how she would attack me, so I was prepared for her emotionally and mentally.  My T helped immensely with figuring it out.  It took a while. It took a few attempts and failures before I got it right.  Just like learning to ride a bike, falling a few times before you get the hang of it.

Any of this hitting close to the mark, Cipher?

[Cipher13]

Any of this hitting close to the mark, Cipher?

Bulls-eye!

Nearly everything feels like a damned if I do and damned if I don't. Let me paint this picture. As of late she has been telling me she needs me to initiate sex. For nearly any guy when a woman says this its like music to his ears. So what is the problem. Well its more a requirement that has hidden rules. It is required every day. But the act of initiating it must be romantic and different. Still not all that bad right? So if its not the way she is expecting in her mind you will come off as a rude groper or pervert. If she is in a bad mood and has insulted you that is no reason to not try either. Both are upset with each other but she needs to feel loved and that is the only way she can feel it. If you are tired or wait too long in the evening expect to be belittled and have a list of constant insults thrown your way...

That's not the best or most detailed way to describe this but right now that's the best I can do.  Last night we met a friend of hers and her husband for dinner. We all had a good time as we were in the restaurant for almost 3 hours. It was late when we got back and when I "made an attempt as I knew it was required of me" she was upset it was to late and I again am a worthless piece. Why can't I find her attractive and initiate it sooner. Or find a better way to try to.  Then in the morning she emails me saying she had a dream that I was making out with her friend in front of her then admitted to doing the same with her sister. If you remember from other posts she has long expressed this concern about her sister and I. Of course nothing could ever be anything further from that notion she has.

So as to address the freezing "deer in headlights" reactions. Yes that might be the best way to describe how I feel. That and trapped. Its like every decision is wrong in a way that leads to it not getting better. And for that I hold out hope that she is the one that will leave and end the relationship. After all she has guilted me for so many years saying I do not care and never had, so much that in my head even though she is right by this point, I can not bring myself to say that to her.  So I think part of the answer to her question of why don't you initiate sex it is because I don't want to and can't find the love and emotion to do that.

[Grey Kitty]

I think one answer to the question of "how does this serve you?" could be this:

You are afraid of leaving / confronting her.

By putting up with this abuse and this miserable relationship, you avoid confronting the fear of taking actions that could end it.

Let me give you an example of a (likely terrifying) possibility:

Imagine you decide that you will only initiate sex when you feel like having sex with your wife. (You are in the mood, and feel somewhat safe)

Now imagine that she starts to berate you about not initiating sex, as you don't feel like it tonight. (I'm sure you can draw from prior experiences for a script.)

Imagine saying "I didn't initiate sex because I didn't want it tonight."

And refusing to participate in the fight over it. Likely leaving the bedroom to go sleep on the couch because she wants to make a fight over it.

While I'm sure it sounds terrifying... .would it really be worse than what you've been experiencing?

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Cipher, Maybe James Brown was a "sex machine" but you are not.  This sounds an awful lot like coercion, which doesn't seem romantic to me.  In fact, I would guess that it is undermining your self-esteem, which is something that you can't afford.

LuckyJim

[HopefulDad]

One way to get past the deer in the headlights response is to start practicing scenarios in your mind where you actually stand up for yourself and play out the likely consequences.  Grey Kitty gave a great scenario.  I'm sure you can come up with more.  Then actually enact them with your wife and see how it goes.  Sometimes you get surprised and still might have that freeze response, so just make mental notes and do the exercise again in your head, then try again.  Lots of trial and error.  Eventually with practice, you'll become more comfortable holding your ground and dealing with the fallout.

I'll give you an example I had to deal with... .

My ex would argue all night if I let her... .and I did.  I would plead to take a break and continue in the morning, but she would say that I was trying to "control her" by doing so and I fell for it.  There would be times I would try to leave the room and she would get in front of me and prevent me from doing so.  There were times I left the house to go for an escape walk and she would follow me, so I'd turn right around and bring the argument back inside to avoid a scene.  Everything I did, she would take it one step further.  I needed to figure out how far *I* was willing to go to hold my ground.

So I thought about what to do.  And I decided to try threatening to call the cops if I was prevented from leaving.  Would be interesting to see how that went, and I got my chance.

One night more of the same happened so I said I'm getting in the car and going for a drive to cool off.  She followed me to the car, jumped in the backseat and said "No!  We're dealing with this NOW!"  I got out of the car and started walking up the street.  She followed me.  I pulled out my cellphone, at which she said mockingly, "Oh, what are you going to do?  Call the police?"  I told her what I had practiced in my head:

"I have a right to leave my house during an argument and go for a walk.  You are preventing me from doing so.  You do not have the right to do that.  If you continue to deny me this right, I *am* calling the police and when they arrive, we can let them sort out who has what rights to do what they are doing."

Her response?  She gave me the look of death, but turned around in silence and walked back into the house.  I got in my car and went for a drive, feeling very proud of what I had done.  When I came home 30 minutes later, I went to sleep on the couch and she didn't bother to come out and start in with me.

Make no mistake, this did *not* improve our relationship.  She resented me greatly for standing up to her for this incident and every incident moving forward where I asserted a boundary.  But what it did was send her the message that I *was* willing to set boundaries and enforce them.  And I did that a lot more thereafter.  And it felt *great*.

[Waddams]

Hopeful Dad is right.  You have to form a plan and know what you will do in advance.  Practice it in your head.  Maybe even with a trusted friend.  Make whatever preparations you need ahead of time to implement the plan too.  In my case, I had an overnight bag with everything I'd need for 2 days in a hotel.  Clothes, toiletries, spare cash/bank cards/gift cards, shoes, and house keys.  I thought about adding a pre-paid phone to it, but never did.  I kept it under the spare tire, hidden in the trunk of my car.

When the incident starts, you also have to work hard to remember your plan and execute it.  The stress will make it hard to think.  That's why I think rehearsing is so important.  You prepare yourself to act under stress.  You were in the military right?  I'm sure that training can be put to good use here.

Everything I did, she would take it one step further.  I needed to figure out how far *I* was willing to go to hold my ground.

This is so important.  They'll take it one step further no matter what, no matter how bad it gets, what scene it makes, where you are.  They are determined to make you back down and control you.  If you need brainstorm on here to figure out ideas on ways you can hold a boundary without escalating the situation yourself.  Doesn't mean she won't try to escalate, she probably will but you can control yourself better.