I think there is something wrong with ME for choosing to remain in this relationship

[Beach_Babe]

I think there is something wrong with ME for choosing to remain in this relationship. The guy sues people for a living and sponges off others. That's not normal. Neither is hitting your head when dysregulated or urinating in a bucket at the psych ward. Honestly the goal really is indifference. He is only a symptom a much more profound issue with myself. I hope I can start to address and fix that.

[Skip]

I think there is something wrong with ME for choosing to remain in this relationship.

I know I've said this before, but I think the way you talk to yourself (and us) is not honest.  I don't mean that you are a liar, but that you are locking things in your head with biased interpretations that are hard to unravel and resolve for you.

Is this about you choosing to remain in a relationship with a loser?  Or is this about a 14 year breakup (thats hard in anybodies book) and the triggering of parental wounds?

Your ex ended the relationship. You didn't want that.  That's pretty normal.

You held on for months and tried to reach out in kinda tortured ways... .abandonment anxiety has been eating you alive... .parental wounds have been triggered... .your self esteem is bruised... .your thinking is depressed.

You're grieving and it is grinding you down.  

Recovery will be related to breaking these things down into bite size parts and working them.

Have you taken the depression test?

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=79772.0

[hurting300]

I think there is something wrong with ME for choosing to remain in this relationship.

I know I've said this before, but I think the way you talk to yourself (and us) is not honest.  I don't mean that you are a liar, but that you are locking things in your head with biased interpretations that are hard to unravel and resolve for you.

Is this about you choosing to remain in a relationship with a loser?  Or is this about a 14 year breakup (thats hard in anybodies book) and the triggering of parental wounds?

Your ex ended the relationship. You didn't want that.  That's pretty normal.

You held on for months and tried to reach out in kinda tortured ways... .abandonment anxiety has been eating you alive... .parental wounds have been triggered... .your self esteem is bruised... .your thinking is depressed.

You're grieving and it is grinding you down.  

Recovery will be related to breaking these things down into bite size parts and working them.

Have you taken the depression test?

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=79772.0

You have so much common sense. I wish I could teach myself to break things down like you do.

[Darsha500]

Beach Babe,

Your words convey a deep sense of shame, something i am all too familiar with.

In her book, The Gifts of Imperfection: Let Go of Who You Think You’re Supposed to Be and Embrace Who You Are, Brown offers this simple definition of shame: “Shame is the intensely painful feeling or experience of believing that we are flawed and therefore unworthy of love and belonging” (p. 38). Brown is quick to point out the inextricable link between shame and fear.  In her view, underlying shame is a deep seated fear that, “if people were too know the truth about me, that is, if they truly knew, who I am, where I come from, what I believe, how much I’m struggling, or even how wonderful I am when soaring,” I would be outright rejected, misunderstood, or poorly judged.

In therapy, shame was one of core issues I tackled. It took about a year for me to start to really believe I am a valuable human being. And, in fact, its something i am still learning.

I remember in therapy I would bring up the idea that: if I love myself as much as I say i do, then why do I still live in such fear? why am i still so neurotic?

I realize now that saying you love yourself is one thing, but actually believing, on a deep core level, that you are lovable is another entirely.

After much work on myself, I can confidently say that I truly love myself. But it has not been an over night process. In fact, my recent failed BPD relationship has acted as a sort of catapult into self-love. This is because from it I realized how much I was depriving myself of love by subjugating myself to my ex.

In A.A. we have this saying, "it takes what it takes," and "Your not ready until your ready." I have learned that this saying also applies to the process of learning to love yourself, in a sense. By this I mean that we will learn lessons about ourselves only when we are in a position to be open to those lessons. Knowledge builds on prior knowledge and experience. I'm fortunate that I've been able to learn what I have about myself from my experience with my ex.

However, I'd like to point out that your despondency upon your revelation that there must be something "wrong" with you for staying with you ex, is unwarranted. That is to say, the fact that you stayed with your ex for so long/put up with what you did, has no bearing on your worth as a human being.

My therapist put it this way. Imagine you have some gold and you take it to a gold smith to find out its value. He tells you its worth $100. So you take it back and mold it into something else, then ask him again: "Now how much is it worth?" He says, "its still worth the same." You repeat this procedure several times, but no matter how you shape the gold, its value remains the same.

You are the gold. No matter what you do, your worth is the same. This is because just by virtue of being a human being you are valuable. There is nothing you can do to earn your value, much like the notion of divine grace.

This idea can be hard to swallow. My therapist once asked me, "What if i just pulled the curtain back and revealed to you that you are already perfect?" I was dumbfounded, I didn't know what to say. A week later I returned with an answer: "I'd tell you that you were full of sh!t! Look at all the evidence to the contrary? How do i reconcile myself with that? If i am so perfect, then why cant I do this? or why cant I do that?"

The belief that we are flawed is just that, a belief. Like all beliefs it is subject to revision. The process of revising your beliefs about yourself, the agreements you have made with yourself, as don miguel ruiz refers to them as, is a deeply personal process. Its one that can be aided immensely by a good therapist. I am personally very much inclined to the psychodynamic/humanistic orientation. Perhaps you could benefit from seeing one. For me the experience was life changing.

Now, I will end with this, I refuse to be ashamed of myself. So much of my life I have been ruled by shame. It is no way to live. It is a curse self-inflicted. We as individuals have the power to overcome that curse. I have found that it comes down to actively working on myself, seeking answers to my questions. Ultimately, educating myself.

Knowledge is power, said francis bacon, and what better knowledge than self knowledge.

[Sadly]

Darsha

This is beautifully written and very insightful and it sounds like you have worked very hard and are in a place that I envy,  may never attain but would strive to with all my might however there is one thing I really don't get.

The belief that we are flawed is just that, a belief

Of course we are flawed, all of us! There is no such thing as a perfect human being. The world would be full of Hitler type megalomaniacs. That thought is almost as scary as a world full of pwBPD. I find this much more realistic:-

Nobody is perfect, and nobody deserves to be perfect. Nobody has it easy, everyone has issues. You never know what people are going through. So pause before you start judging, mocking or criticizing others. Everybody is fighting their own unique war.

Reading this post actually helped me today. I have probably just for a little while stopped wallowing in grief and self pity to think. There is nothing wrong BB with staying and trying to make things work. I tried too I think everyone here has. Please take care of yourself is what I think Darsha is saying (sorry if I have misunderstood) and in such a lovely way. I read this somewhere:_

Live life like a pair of walking feet, The foot that is forward has no pride and the foot behind has no shame because they both knows their situation will change!

For a long time I was ashamed of myself for allowing myself to be treated the way I was. Now however although I have all the other feelings/emotions doubts and down right pure deathly misery of breaking up with my pwBPD, I no longer feel shame as I understand the part of me that allowed it. big big hugs to you   xx

[hollycat]

I think you have not hit bottom yet, with this relationship. With BpdH, I found my boundaries constantly shifting.  He would push them further and further because I allowed him too. Finally, one day, the day of the huge blow up, I had ENOUGH.  Even though I am tempted to invite him back home, I realize my life is so much more peaceful without him.  I said as much to him in a text: I no longer wish to live in chaos and filth; the chaos is a sympton of your disordered mind.

I guess that is my final line.  You have not reached yours yet.  Our interactions with pwBpd is as much about self discovery as discovery about them.  You are on a journey.

[Beach_Babe]

I think there is something wrong with ME for choosing to remain in this relationship.

I know I've said this before, but I think the way you talk to yourself (and us) is not honest.  I don't mean that you are a liar, but that you are locking things in your head with biased interpretations that are hard to unravel and resolve for you.

Is this about you choosing to remain in a relationship with a loser?  Or is this about a 14 year breakup

I'd say its both Skip. I was dumped by my safety net; a loser who I thought would never leave.  I chose to endure a year of devaluation, cruelty and abuse. This man  never put me first and the end was the most horrific thing I could have imagined. He has, and continues to smear my character to others. I did nothing to deserve the monker "Satan". I know he is ill, and will always remember good times; maybe the problem however is I block out th bad ones. He reminds me of my parents.

[C.Stein]

Of course we are flawed, all of us! There is no such thing as a perfect human being.

Perhaps the important thing to think about here is the difference between knowing and accepting. 

[Darsha500]

Of course we are flawed, all of us! There is no such thing as a perfect human being.

Perhaps the important thing to think about here is the difference between knowing and accepting. 

I am perfect!

... .Perfectly adequate. 

[Beach_Babe]

hurting: you are right about that for sure. How are you doing today?

Darsha:  How kind of you, thank you for that! that seems like a wonderful book, I will check it out. I'm so sorry to hear of your experiences also. These relationships are very damaging indeed. How long did it take you to get to the point of self actualization? I think I am starting to get there, I accept the relationship is over  I think I am starting to let go. At this point I am trying to look at my own role in things because I really want to avoid making the same mistake with another disordered individual in the future.

[Beach_Babe]

hollycat: it sure sounds like you've been put through the ringer. I have been following your posts and really feel for your situation, I am so glad you got out of there.

I do believe that I hit bottom with this, because there was a point I acted crazy myself. I called and texted him from fake phone numbers, for example, after he blocked mine. That was wrong and a violation of his boundaries, disordered or not. I never want to be in a situation where I'm pleading like this again.

[Beach_Babe]

C.Stein: that is an astute observation! Have you reached acceptance yet?

[Darsha500]

Hey beach babe,

I love that you used the term self-actualization. That has to be by far my favorite construct in psychology. One thing I really like is how Maslow, the man who most researched self-actualization, never referred to an individual as self-actualized. Rather, he always spoke of them as being engaged in a continuous process of self-actualizing. This is encouraging, because it suggests that in a way we are all engaged in the process of actualizing our selves.

However, for me, when the rubber really met the road was when got sober from alcohol. This transition forced me to really take responsibility for my self. I realized that I had been playing the victim and blaming circumstances for all my problems. The most pivotal point though came when I started seeing my therapist. I had been very into Carl Jung at the time, so took my time in finding a psychologist who practiced depth psychology. Engaging wholeheartedly with my life and focusing on my growth paid off. I am no longer the timid resigned neurotic individual I once was.

I highly recommend that book. It was actually one that really helped change my outlook.

Reading has been one of the best things for me though. Reading and integrating what I learn into my life. I could recommend tons of books.

Sadly.

there is one thing I really don't get.

The belief that we are flawed is just that, a belief.

I took this idea from a paper I wrote on shame:

"It is clear that shame is an incredibly multifaceted and devastating affliction. Furthermore, the ways in which shame can manifest itself outwardly are surprisingly diverse. Fortunately, the belief that one is profoundly and permanently flawed central to shame is just that, a belief.  And like all beliefs, it is subject to revision. The process of revising the beliefs underlying shame may at times seem perplexing. After all, its one thing to say that you completely love, accept, and approve of yourself, and another entirely to actually believe that you are worthy of love, acceptance, and approval. From the point of view of the shamed individual, the path of recovery from shame may seem futile, I know this from first hand experience. However, I can also attest to the fact that recovery is possible. As long as there is hope for something better, recovery is possible. “Though the confines of space may be dark, tilt your head in the right direction and you will see the sun.”"

Of course we are flawed, all of us! There is no such thing as a perfect human being. The world would be full of Hitler type megalomaniacs. That thought is almost as scary as a world full of pwBPD. I find this much more realistic:-

Nobody is perfect, and nobody deserves to be perfect. Nobody has it easy, everyone has issues. You never know what people are going through. So pause before you start judging, mocking or criticizing others. Everybody is fighting their own unique war.

What did my therapist mean by "perfect." Like I had mentioned, at the time I was dumbfounded by his use of the word. I figured it out after I read the five levels of attachment, which he recommended to me. (And I recommend to all reading this )

"Mistaking Perfection for Imperfection

"When my father first tried to get me to understand that I am perfect, I found it impossible to accept. I tried to understand, but I couldn't. I was attached to my belief that perfection is something to be attained through hard work and dedication—and I still had a long way to go. How could I be perfect? I hadn't yet accomplished my goals: I wasn't what I wanted to be. I couldn't attract the girl I wanted. I didn't weigh what I thought I should weigh. On and on I went with my diatribe, managing to ascertain and then judge all of my imperfections. With this kind of perfection, whenever our story does not match our beliefs, we judge it as imperfect; then we punish ourselves for not living up to our beliefs of how we think we should live.

We eventually acquire a definition of perfection that has nothing to do with actual perfection: “being free from all flaws or defects.” Most often, we read this definition through the eyes of judgment, from the point of view of someone outside who's trying to live up to the stories we've created about ourselves. If we do happen to achieve perfection momentarily from this point of view, we reward ourselves with conditional self-love. Then we use conditional self-love as our motivator to pursue this distorted idea of perfection in the future. It's a circuitous problem.

I continued to struggle with this concept as I grew older. Still, my father persisted throughout the years with this message. He told me, “Miguel, when you understand that you are perfect just the way you are, you will see that everything is perfect just the way it is.” It's not easy to just wake up one day and say you,'re perfect and actually believe it. It requires desire and commitment. First, you leave behind any false ideals of perfection—you release your attachment to what you believe it means to be the perfect you. In order to learn this lesson, I needed to stop judging myself for not meeting my own expectations and accept myself for who I am at this very moment.

I began at the beginning, learning to love myself and giving gratitude every morning for being alive. Second, you view life through the eyes of an artist and accept that everything is a work in progress, a never-ending masterpiece... ."

Earlier I had joked that I am perfect, perfectly adequate. This is how I've come to understand perfection. I am perfectly imperfect. That is, I accept myself as I am. Even with all my flaws. So when I say I refuse to be ashamed of myself, by that I mean that strive to love myself unconditionally. Like a parent's love for his child. I strive to take care of myself to the best of my abilities.

[Sadly]

Thanks Darsha

need time to inwardly digest, will get back to you. x