Bpd behavior? Push/pull dynamic

[unicorn2014]

  everyone,

Today I had a rather frustrating text exchange with my father, initiated by my father, which I shared with my therapist who said he was engaging in a push/pull behavior. I've seen that referenced on the romantic boards but didn't see that referred to on the coping board lessons for BPD behaviors. Is it called something else? I would like to read up on it.

I am reading surviving the borderline parent, and just finished the introduction.

Thanks in advance for any replies! 

[Kwamina]

Nope, it's called the same here too. Push/pull is a universal BPD behavior that can be found on all the boards

In what ways does your therapist feel your dad was engaging in push/pull behavior? Would you say this is typical for your dad?

[unicorn2014]

Kwamina, is there a lesson on push/pull behavior?

Would it be helpful if I copied and pasted the text conversation?

My social worker said it was a maladaptive attachment style. Yes it is typical.

[Kwamina]

Kwamina, is there a lesson on push/pull behavior?

I don't believe we have a lesson specifically about the push/pull behavior but I'm gonna keep looking!

We however do have an article about the so-called Karpman triangle in which the pull/push dynamic is also (implicitly) manifested. I see that you have already read that article. Sometimes you get pushed into the role of Persecutor, other times you get pulled into the role of Rescuer and other times you just get attacked and are the clear Victim and basically get pushed away. This in a way also relates to the BPD behavior known as splitting in which you are either all-good or all-bad which also relates to the idealization & devaluation cycles people with BPD tend to go through. So we could say everything is related

Underlying the push/pull dynamics is often a fear of abandonment and a fear of or inability to deal with people getting close to you. Knowing this, I think it makes sense for your therapist to label this behavior as a maladaptive attachment style.

Would it be helpful if I copied and pasted the text conversation?

Only if you feel comfortable with it. If you do post it, to protect your privacy I advise you to just paraphrase so we get the general idea of what was said.

[unicorn2014]

Hi Kwamina, I'll just paraphrase the conversation then.

Basically my dad told me my grandmother was dying when I asked him if he was going to my nephew's birthday party.

I had asked him if he was going to my nephew's birthday and he said he was unless my grandmother was on her last breath. Then I asked him if my brother had invited his half sister that was  taking care of his mother to his grandson's birthday party. My dad said that my aunt didn't want to be part of the "intrafamily drama". I asked him what he was talking about. He referred to a conversation that happened in my cousin's car last week with me, my daughter, my brother and my cousin. (I mentioned this on the staying board in connection with my romantic partner). I told my dad there was no "intrafamily drama", there was simply my brother telling an inappropriate story (about the time his girlfriend's mother called the police because he pushed her daughter and my brother went off on the police officer.) I told my dad this three times, there was no drama, there was only my brother telling his story, but my dad didn't respond. Instead he put down one of his half sisters (splitting) and praised the other one (who is managing my grandmother's affairs). Very maddening.

Does this make any sense?

[healingdaisy]

Underlying the push/pull dynamics is often a fear of abandonment and a fear of or inability to deal with people getting close to you. Knowing this, I think it makes sense for your therapist to label this behavior as a maladaptive attachment style.

I have experienced the push/pull behaviour in BPDs my entire life. it was only when I worked it out that I finally got some sense in the relationships with BPDs.  I've found that their sense of abandonment isn't just in obvious things such as when you leave for work or shopping etc (physical), but its more in emotional things.  for example if I am on the phone to a relative or friend my BPD bf will act anxious, act out or sulk, or if I show interest in my hobbies or occupation he does the same.  they seem to see the act of another having an appropriate and healthy interest in their own life as a threat or act of rejection.  I find it really sad, because I agree with the above... .they fear abandonment so push others away when they feel they get too close.  but when they believe nons to be unavailable emotionally to them, they draw them back in.

its really hard to endure, and at the same time catering to their behaviour can cause nons to become nervous wrecks.  hence the term 'walking on eggshells'.  we end up afraid to move for fear of their abandonment reaction.   

[Kwamina]

Does this make any sense?

Your account of what happens makes sense

I can see why you would find your father's behavior maddening since you clearly have a very different perception of events than he does. Working under the assumption that your dad indeed has BPD, it could very well be that in his own mind his behavior actually makes perfect sense. Things such as projection and splitting are manifestations of a distorted mind.

It could also be that your aunt didn't really say what your dad says she did. Perhaps this is just his 'interpretation' of her words. Based on your experiences with him, do you feel like he has a tendency to misrepresent events and things other people say?

I've found that their sense of abandonment isn't just in obvious things such as when you leave for work or shopping etc (physical), but its more in emotional things.  for example if I am on the phone to a relative or friend my BPD bf will act anxious, act out or sulk, or if I show interest in my hobbies or occupation he does the same.  they seem to see the act of another having an appropriate and healthy interest in their own life as a threat or act of rejection.

Hi healingdaisy,

I unfortunately can very much relate to what you say here. Every contact I had with other people resulted in my uBPD mother sulking, raging or giving me the cold treatment. It was nearly impossible for me to talk to people on the telephone, particularly people outside of the family. This made it nearly impossible to have friendships. When I was enthusiastic about things such as hobbies etc. she always kept saying and doing things to ruin my positive mood. Like you say, this is indeed really hard to endure. Fortunately there are also tools that can work as a walking on egg shells antidote. Tools such as S.E.T. and D.E.A.R.M.A.N., are you familiar with these tools?

[unicorn2014]

Hi Kwamina, I had more problems with my dad last night where he sent me an email and when I asked him a question he attacked me for being boring and intrusive. It shocked me because my partner also calls me boring so I showed the email to my partner and he swore to never call me boring again and yet we're right back in the soup again (my partner and I). I feel like I'm a tennis ball in a game between my dad and my partner. I'm experiencing conflict with both men, so I think I need to spend a little time on the staying board.

In terms of my dad making things up? No, I don't think he does that but he does make snide remarks that stick with you for a long time and has since he was a teen.

[healingdaisy]

hi kwmina - I have (unknowingly) been using 'set' for a while.  but BPD bf is not responding to it.  he is too defensive. he sees the offer of support as invalidating to his own abilities and becomes defensive while he reacts to empathy with self pity and truth as criticism.  as though he is being criticised for not knowing this himself. 

the dearman technique sounds good with those who are high functioning BPD.  bf is not.  he has chronic communication avoidant issues and has panic attacks when I need to express my needs or when things are getting worse for us.  my needs trigger him, no matter how lightly I try to express them.  I've even suggested writing them down on paper and leaving it on the table to pick up in his own time!  I am stuck between a rock and a hard place right now.  but I will persevere for the time being.  until things in other areas of my life change to enable a different decision.

[unicorn2014]

Underlying the push/pull dynamics is often a fear of abandonment and a fear of or inability to deal with people getting close to you. Knowing this, I think it makes sense for your therapist to label this behavior as a maladaptive attachment style.

I have experienced the push/pull behaviour in BPDs my entire life. it was only when I worked it out that I finally got some sense in the relationships with BPDs.  I've found that their sense of abandonment isn't just in obvious things such as when you leave for work or shopping etc (physical), but its more in emotional things.  for example if I am on the phone to a relative or friend my BPD bf will act anxious, act out or sulk, or if I show interest in my hobbies or occupation he does the same.  they seem to see the act of another having an appropriate and healthy interest in their own life as a threat or act of rejection.  I find it really sad, because I agree with the above... .they fear abandonment so push others away when they feel they get too close.  but when they believe nons to be unavailable emotionally to them, they draw them back in.

its really hard to endure, and at the same time catering to their behaviour can cause nons to become nervous wrecks.  hence the term 'walking on eggshells'.  we end up afraid to move for fear of their abandonment reaction.   

Hi healing daisy, a summary notice from my medical insurance caused me to pull up my thread from this date and I realized I never replied directly to you. My apologies.

I noticed that the person you've identified as causing you the most pain in your life is a romantic partner yet you are posting on the C&H board. May I ask why?

[flourdust]

I noticed that the person you've identified as causing you the most pain in your life is a romantic partner yet you are posting on the C&H board. May I ask why?

I don't think it's any of your business to challenge people on where or how they post.

[Kwamina]

Asking a question isn't necessarily challenging someone

It is ok to ask each other questions on a message board.

It is also ok not to answer questions if you do not want to.

We have members posting here from various backgrounds, some dealing with BPD relationship partners as well as BPD family-members.

[unicorn2014]

 I was asking out of compassion and I was apologizing for not replying. I was being a poor host. Recently I pulled up my post from October 30 as I got a statement from my insurance company for therapy for that date and I wanted to know what I might have to pay for. That session was very helpful, I learned that my father had the emotional responses of a young child. My father is narcissistic not borderline but his mother is borderline. I am having a hard time accepting that my mother has traits of all four borderline types but that's another topic.

[busybee1116]

I experience the push-pull with both my uBPDm and uNPDf all the time. If I want to be close to my parents and have any relationship with them, I have to be careful not to get sucked into their drama. It's hard to articulate or give an example, but I think the push-pull dynamic is part of splitting, too. One minute I'm the best daughter ever and then I'm the worst. I never know which column I will be in and did (no longer do) enjoy the best daughter-ever-phases so it would draw me in, let my guard down, forget my boundaries... .and then I'd be the worst and have no guard and no boundaries. I also think it's part of what I call "the dance," which is speaking their language, acting on the drama triangle (READ ABOUT THAT--Kwamina's advice is fantastic), playing a role.

An example of the push-pull with my father. I enjoy parts of my relationship with my parents but in the beginning, I was having a hard time setting boundaries and changing how I communicate with them. I was trying to reduce contact with them both by not emailing much, trying to keep my notes BIFF (brief, informative, factual and friendly) and not writing or calling as frequently in general. It go to the point where I finally started just sending a pretty picture with one line or 2 (which I still do! But more frequently--I've learned more frequent contact but with no/minimal content is better than less contact to reduce drama). I sent a picture of our apple tree, with fruit. I had just purchased it a year prior with his recommendation as apple trees do not normally grow in my climate--except for very few specific varieties. He is a master gardener and knows these things. I think my line said something like "Hope you are having a great weekend. Here's a picture of our apple tree, with fruit!" He replied back something like "What kind of apple tree is that?" I took this as baiting me, pulling me into a fight. He knows what kind of apple tree it is. He told me which variety to get. I replied back: "[name of apple tree]. I'm surprised you don't recognize it or remember that you helped recommend the variety." He replied "That doesn't look like [name of apple tree]. The apples are more elongated with a sheep's nose bottom." I took that as YOU ARE WRONG, BUSYBEE, HOW COULD YOU BE SO STUPID. I think I wrote back something like "ha ha, it is [name of apple tree]... ." but felt like somehow he had "won" the conversation and it made me like my apple tree and weekend less somehow and wonder how I had created such a dramatic conversation with a picture. When I heard that voice I realized... .a lot of this conversation is actually happening in my head. I need to stop doing that. I took this conversation to therapy and worked on some better thinking and communication strategies. If this exchange were to happen again, I would probably shrug it off more and not interpret/mind-read his responses, although I know he loves to pick a verbal debate, arguing is how he feels better-than, smarter, in charge. But you know, he's right--the apples do look different at my elevation than his, and that's probably how I would respond now. I can see his questions as curious instead of challenging. He can be right about certain things... .let it go.  I now use "medium chill" more https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=114204.0

and that helps as well. When I feel pulled, I don't push. When I feel pushed, I don't pull. So even though they may start things and try to push-pull, I realized I was also pushing/pulling. The dance.

[unicorn2014]

Thanks for the medium chill link busy bee, that's the same thing we learn in ACA.

I made that post October 30 after a therapy session about my dad and today I'm dealing with a different issue.

I'm involved with a probate case and my attorney is asking me for information about my grandmother when I was a teenager. My dad should be the one providing that information not me but he wants me to tell my stories to the attorneys. Its kind of hard for me not to feel a resentment against him because he neglected me when I was a teenager and as a result I was depressed, suicidal, substance abusing, a run away and truant. Yes, I have daddy issues. I admit it. Now he wants me to tell my attorney about his mother.

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi Unicorn! 

I appreciate your bringing back this post which you started. I don't think I read it before, and it is very interesting to me. My uBPDm often split and the explanations posted here are quite good.

I'm sorry for all the extra goings on in your life right now. Are you sleeping any better?



Wools

[unicorn2014]

Hi Wools and thank you for asking. I started taking the sleep medication again that works. I meet with my nurse next week and am going to try a different one. Tonight I have the night off because my daughter is with her friend so I'm appreciating the peace, however tomorrow I have to get to work on round 2 of the probate case. I must admit I have a resentment against my dad, telling me he's sure the lawyers would love to hear my stories. What about his stories?

++++

On another note I checked out surviving the borderline parent again, however currently I'm reading I don't have to make everything all better as I've had several opportunities this week to just listen to my daughter. I don't really like how she runs her life when it comes to boys, meaning whom she picks, however its complicated, and there's not a whole lot I can do about it. Currently she has a crush on a boy in juvenile hall and just had to sit there and listen to her tell me about him, but that's another subject.