Why fight at all?

[unicorn2014]

A lot has happened since this morning and the threads I thought I was going to write I didn't write so I might as well as address form flier's question: why fight at all?

Well, I got in two huge arguments with my partner this past Saturday. I usually go to a meeting on Saturdays and almost every time I call him after the meeting we get in a fight. (I'm going to try to remember not to call him this coming Saturday after the meeting.)

The two subjects we fought about this Saturday was his email to me telling me how much he enjoyed being a part of a family with me and consequent displeasure with me when I decided to allow my daughter to go to a friend's house without reviewing why she was grounded with her.

He denies that he was criticizing my parenting skills. He says he merely felt left out because thought this was something we were doing together. I told him I told him repeatedly that if my daughter came home after school for the week that her grounding would end on Friday. Initially I had wanted to review with my daughter why she had been grounded and what she learned with but she was in such a hurry to get out that I didn't have time to. Later on I found out she used marijuana again so I'm going to have to ground her again.

My partner has some great ideas but since he lives 2,000 miles away he can't exactly enforce them.

Right now he and I are getting along great so I'm not even sure why I'm writing this post. I'm having a simultaneous problem with my dad, actually he and I are having an issue right now and I was searching the coping board for information on arguing.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

Right now he and I are getting along great so I'm not even sure why I'm writing this post. 

So that the chances of a "next time" go down... .or that "next time" it will not be as much... .

However... I'm not asking for the details... .I'm asking about the big picture... ."why fight at all?"

fictional unicorn conversation:

Unicorn:  I let my daughter go do xyz

Unicorn fiancee:  But... she was grounded... .why didn't we speak out it... .you should have done xyz...

Unicorn:  Interesting:  Did you try the fish recipe that we talked about.  I made it the other night and it was wonderful.

Unicorn fiancee:   I can believe you did abc with daughter... .

Unicorn:  I'm not able to discuss parenting right now... .we can talk about something else or I can let you go.


No fight... .

FF

[unicorn2014]

Lol,  that won't work with my partner, he's too smart. I/we believe his dad has some kind of personality disorder and he's quite familiar with that kind of tactic.

Unfortunately my situation is a little trickier then that.

He was actually right, I didn't review with my daughter why she was grounded before I let her leave, she cleaned her room and thought she fulfilled the terms and left. Of course I walked with her to the bus stop and she was mad at me. I tried to review with her why she was grounded but she just gave it lip service. She got high again that night, (she was grounded for getting busted smoking pot by the sheriff), and as a result the mild case of poison oak she had turned into a severe case, and now she has missed a couple of days of school. (She actually went across the county to see her dad to avoid me.)

So, the moral of the story was my partner was right, I should have, we should have reviewed with her why she was grounded, but he's 2000 miles away and couldn't do anything in the moment and that is what I told him. He felt hurt because he thought I  had kicked him off the team and that we were disciplining her together. I had to make a decision in the moment by myself because he is 2000 miles away.

I am reading about triangulation again and I think that has to do with the drama triangle. If I can make it relevant to the staying board I will post about it.

(I am trying to deal directly with her biological father as well as my father and my brother. I told my partner to take a step back unless my child's father gets verbally abusive to me again at which point I would ask him to intervene. To be honest, I got really mad at my child's father for allowing our daughter to come see him when she had poison oak when she should have come home, but that's a different story. I was actually shocked at how angry I was with him. He did tell me earlier that week that he refused to stop smoking pot, so I'm not surprised I'm furious. I'm trying to avoid having triangles but there are a lot of relationships in my life.)

[formflier]

Lol,  that won't work with my partner, 

Again... big picture... .don't think about this "exact" argument... .

It doesn't have to work with your parter... .EVER.

It only has to work for you... .

What does that mean for you and the stress that arguments cause you?

FF

[unicorn2014]

formflier, well, it means I don't argue in my apartment, I don't argue on the bike path, I don't argue in the shopping center. Basically I don't argue at all as I don't have the privacy inside or outside my apartment to argue. I had to go and sit outside next to the bike path to have this conversation with my partner. Many of my conversations with my partner are not suitable for public consumption.

I suppose I could validate my partner "I'm sorry you feel excluded but I had to make a decision in the moment." I did tell him that afterwards, and I know you're supposed to use and instead of but. Sometimes I get so sick and tired of my partner's emotional neediness, I just want him to grow up and be a mature adult for once and not care about whether or not I left him out of a decision making process.

[formflier]

. Basically I don't argue at all as I don't have the privacy inside or outside my apartment to argue. I had to go and sit outside next to the bike path to have this conversation with my partner. Many of my conversations with my partner are not suitable for public consumption.

You are getting closer... .why pick place to argue? 

Again... .why argue?

If your conversations are not suitable for public consumption... .why have them?  I understand that there are private conversations with private information... .that is different.

Focus on "argue"... .why argue with a pwBPD... .ever?

One last attempt at a rephrase:  If you had perfect privacy... .and a clear connection via phone or some other device... .or in person even... .  So let's say in person... .perfect privacy... .Why argue?

Think about your answer... .please talk about YOUR reasons... .

FF

[unicorn2014]

Form flier, I don't want to argue, he does. When I say no he wants to know why. I also took the conflict style poll and I'm a tough battler. At this point in my life my personal goals are more important then my relationship goals. So I guess that's why I argue too.

I get tired of listening to him talk about his feelings over and over again. When he keeps telling me how much he likes, loves me, wants to be around me, how nice I look, I don't believe him because of all the verbal abuse he's heaped on me.

Palla really hit the nail on the head, I need to do a lot of work around self forgiveness and self validation if this relationship is to get healthier. I find being his partner a lot of work, always having to uphold his emotional well being, always having to encourage him, always having to be sensitive to his moods. Its exhausting! I just wish I could relax and let my guard down for once and act like a normal person without worrying about getting emotionally triggered by something he says or does!

So I guess a third reason I argue is to defend myself because I feel threatened by or frightened of him.

See, when things are going well I don't believe them because we've had so much conflict that I believe the next conflict is just waiting around the corner, ready to rear its ugly head.

[formflier]

Form flier, I don't want to argue, he does. 

Exactly... .

Is the answer to your argument issue convincing him not to argue?


or... .is there another option?

FF

[unicorn2014]

The answer is I don't argue so what do I do when I get annoyed with him? Step back?

[formflier]

The answer is I don't argue so what do I do when I get annoyed with him? Step back?

FF

[RedPixie]

Hello,

I'm very new to these boards so forgive my intrusion.

I argue ,  because he asks me to constantly explain myself ,  my decision needs to be backed up with my theory.

if I try and say just because or its intuition or sometimes I don't have a good reason

sometimes my reason would be upsetting to him... .

for instance

he gets frustrated with something downstairs , I go upstairs to avoid the anxiety of being around him stressing over nothing (his computer was slow to start) I'm upstairs reading... .

10 minutes later he comes up and asks if im trying to get away from him!

So while it's true , that's the last thing I want to say to him , even though he suspects and is correct

he starts to rage about how he should be allowed to get frustrated with stuff without me having to remove myself

I explain that I have to do what is best for me. his moods create anxiety in me so I remove myself when he is getting frustrated with "his junk"  he says that it makes him feel guilty and therefore makes things worse for him.

he wont accept that I need to remove myself to keep my own sanity. / i'm no good to him anxious and that IMO is much worse.

and so the argument continues - I need to be able to do what I need to do, but that makes him feel guilty and abandoned I guess. even when I say, i'm just popping out for some milk or whatever try to make it so that it doesn't seem like im escaping/ taking time out ... .so it doesn't offend him and yet he always says. . .  are you trying to get away from me ?  I am so stuck for what to say  - i'm a terrible liar I freeze up and get so anxious of upsetting him. the confrontation is unbearable.

I feel forced into arguments through having to explain myself and then defend my decisions against his paranoia or crazy ideas that are not viable ... .

how do you avoid having to explain yourself without appearing rude or dismissive because ive tried to change the subject or trajectory of the conversation if I know its going to lead to a disagreement.

he also likes to visit the same issues over and over again. it's so tiresome.

x x

pixie

[formflier]

RedPixie,



Come on into the conversation!  I am so glad that you are here.   I'm going to give some quick answers... .and then try to put together a lesson guide for you and others to help you understand my quick answers.

I'm very new to these boards so forgive my intrusion.

No forgiveness needed.  If you have a question/issue... ask it.  We'll guide you... .very gently!   

I argue ,  because he asks me to constantly explain myself 

OK... .big issue here.  Stop explaining.  State clearly... .take action.  JADE is bad.  Justify Argue Defend Explain.

Trust me!

10 minutes later he comes up and asks if im trying to get away from him!

Answer by making it about you.  "I needed time alone to think... "... .  Never fess up that it is about him...

I explain that I have to do what is best for me. his moods create anxiety in me so I remove myself when he is getting frustrated with "his junk"  he says that it makes him feel guilty and therefore makes things worse for him.

Let him be frustrated with "his junk"... .let him keep it.  Don't worry about worse or better for him.

Take care of yourself... .NEVER APOLOGIZE FOR SELF CARE!

he wont accept that I need to remove myself to keep my own sanity.

You are right.  He won't.  He doesn't have to accept it... you have to do it. 

I feel forced into arguments through having to explain myself and then defend my decisions against his paranoia or crazy ideas that are not viable ... .

You do feel that way.  But you have a choice.  Don't argue.

how do you avoid having to explain yourself without appearing rude or dismissive

You don't... .

If you need to appear rude or dismissive... appear that way.  Much more important to not argue.

We will teach you skills to make it about you... and some other things... but in the end.  He will feel dismissed... .

That is not your problem to deal with.  They are his feelings... .HIS RESPONSIBILITY

he also likes to visit the same issues over and over again. it's so tiresome.

Correct... .this is common.  Let him visit them as often as he wants.

You visit something else... .

Each of you has a choice... .

I'm so glad you are here!... .looking forward to more posts from you!

FF

[formflier]

 

Lessons are the place where the "core knowledge" exists.  Best to read them over and over... .to keep pulling out kernels of knowledge.

We can help with questions about what has been read in the lessons.

For those on reading this thread that are interested in "why argue... ."  I challenge you to read the two lessons below... .and post a though or question about what you have read.

Below... "don't argue"

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=106107


Below "circular arguments"

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=118892.0

FF

[Grey Kitty]

You are both getting this... .and getting to the answer.

Form flier, I don't want to argue, he does. When I say no he wants to know why. I also took the conflict style poll and I'm a tough battler. At this point in my life my personal goals are more important then my relationship goals. So I guess that's why I argue too.

he wont accept that I need to remove myself to keep my own sanity. / i'm no good to him anxious and that IMO is much worse.

Why Argue?

Q1: Why does he try to argue?

A1: Well... .it has something to do with poor emotional health / mental illness, but here is the important part: YOU CANNOT CONTROL THIS.

Q2: Why do you argue?

He can throw down the gauntlet, but if you don't pick it up, there isn't an argument.

You are both noticing how little good it does to get in this kind of fight.

So here's the other one.

Q3: How do you NOT argue?

One very good thing is to realize what you need to convince him about, and what you don't need to convince him.

You do NOT need to convince him that the argument is a waste of time. Any more than you need to convince him he is wrong. (Trying to do either is joining the argument, right?)

All you need to do is convince him that you aren't participating in the argument. Simple boundary enforcement.

FF's "... .did you try the fish recipe" was a gentle, polite, and indirect way to do that. It is a great way to start, as it encourages pleasant conversation to resume.

If that doesn't work, (which will almost certainly happen the first time few times you do it, like his example), you need a higher level of boundary enforcement.

FF's next example of stating that you aren't discussing it now is great there.

When you first do that, it also may not be enough, he may come back at it AGAIN.

The next level is ending the conversation -- saying goodbye and hanging up, or leaving the room.

The point here is to make it clear through your ACTIONS that you are not going to participate in the argument.

He may never agree that picking the fight was destructive and should be avoided. But he doesn't have to. All he has to do is realize that you aren't going to participate in the fight, and the harder he tries to get you to, the farther away you will be... .and it still isn't going to happen with you.

[RedPixie]

Thank you FF

i shall read them again and come back to note.

Grey Kitty,

i understand the concept and often do this

its the guilt when he realises i can't bear to be around him when he's like that

he feels like a lepar / abandoned i guess.  

I know I'd feel awful if my wife couldn't stand my behaviour so much she has to leave the room

I'll keep at it.

Off to read the posts above x

I think with what ive learned about validation the last few days

will help me through.


it all seems very unfair though.

Why do i always have to leave... .sometimes I'd just like to sit and

[formflier]

it all seems very unfair though.

Why do i always have to leave... .sometimes I'd just like to sit and

It is unfair... .  no two ways about it.

But... .I guarantee you it is the reality that you face.

They have a disorder... .that results in poor executive control... .(read poor decision making skills)

There is a part of "out of sigh... out of mind... " to this advice. 

If they are upset... .and you stay in their sight... .it is harder for them to calm down... .they have a target to focus on.

Again, not fair at all.  But nons have better decision making skills, and the decision to help calm things is to leave.

Keep reading... .and thinking... .you are getting it... .

FF

[unicorn2014]

Red pixie, just so you know, I've been told to explain myself, and told when I don't want to explain myself that I owe him an explanation because I'm his partner. My partner likes to use his status with me as a weapon all the while claiming he doesn't have a sense of entitlement . I also know about how easily pwBPD feeling abandoned and it really gets on my nerves. My pwBPD needs to know where I am at and what I'm doing so we share location indefinitely and we share a calendar. Actually he wants to make sure I know where he is and what he is doing. I had a friend who thought sharing a calendar was too much.


I have to be really careful with resentments because discussing these things reminds me of all kinds of horrible fights we've gotten in.

Form flier, I agree that as long as we are in the room or on the phone our pwBPD will focus on us. I know a former therapist used to tell me it was my pwBPD job to regulate his own emotions.

We have a unique opportunity right now as my pwBPD wife called him yesterday when we were on FaceTime and he didn't pick up. He left a message this morning and said he hadn't called her back. I know when she calls him he dysregulates because she doesn't like me and doesn't want to divorce him even though they've been living apart 3 years and he's not financially supporting her and she's free to date someone else.

I still need to start a new thread on boundaries and thanksgiving as this is the first time in three years my partner will not be visiting me because of the boundary I set.

[Grey Kitty]

i understand the concept and often do this

its the guilt when he realises i can't bear to be around him when he's like that

he feels like a lepar / abandoned i guess.  

I know I'd feel awful if my wife couldn't stand my behaviour so much she has to leave the room

Yes... .and that guilt is a tool to keep you coming back for that sort of crap if you let it. So keep on being strong instead. And know that you aren't responsible for his feelings.

One more wrinkle on this for you:

The idea that "you can't bear to be around HIM" is a really harsh one. He may feel that way. He may tell you he feels that way or that YOU feel that way.

However I don't recommend you act from quite that place. Instead, consider this:

"You can't bear to be around his BEHAVIOR."

Or better yet:

"You choose not to be present for his BEHAVIOR."

There are two things I'm doing here, and both of them will help you:

1. De-escalating things to a smaller, cleaner, safer level--dealing with his behavior is easier than dealing with him (i.e. his existence)

2. Focusing on your choice to do what is right for you--not on his actions that put the choice in front of you.

When you remember that you are making a choice, instead of being forced to do something, you feel better about your choice... .and are more likely to make a good and healthy choice. And you always have choices. Perhaps the menu of choices in front of you doesn't include one that you would like better than all the ones you do have... .but you DO have choices.

[formflier]

 I had a friend who thought sharing a calendar was too much.

I agree with your friend... .and will up the ante that the location sharing is a bad idea.

With lot of "togetherness"... .it is easy to get caught up in the emotions of a disordered person.  

"Separating" yourself... .or "detaching" yourself... doesn't mean you don't love them, care for them or any of that.  It just means you have your own space.  

They have their own space.

You guys will also have space that is "together space"

pwBPD will try to "take away" from your "own space" and pull it into "together space".  It's part of the disorder.  

Last thing... .words matter... .words reflecting "thinking" and "mindset"

Unicorn2104 said that her partner "needs" to know where she is.  That sets up all kinds of things.  We are programmed (as nons) to meet our partners "needs" if we love them.

Reality:  Unicorns partner (and many others) want to know... .they feel somewhat soothed.  

BUT IT IS NEVER ENOUGH  they will eventually need more and more details... .

Just my .02 cents worth

[unicorn2014]

Grey kitty, when I read your thread it reminds me of my thread about beginning not to care anymore. One of things my pwBPD likes to tell me is I am different , this relationship he actually cares about. That means nothing to me.

There have been definitely been times when I don't want to be around my pwBPD , maybe I would rather just hang out alone with my daughter then be connected to him on FaceTime. Like last night my daughter wanted me to sit on her bed with her while she watched vampire diaries, meanwhile I already had x files queued up in the living room to watch with my partner. I told my daughter I was going to watch my show first and then I'd be back.

After the x files was over I was ready to disconnect from the FaceTime call although it was early, 8:15. I had to tell my partner I wanted to go to bed early since I had gotten very little sleep the night before.

The fact of the matter is I am not at all happy his wife called him. The only time my ex husband calls me is to ask about our daughter.

Yesterday my partners father had called his wife asking who I was since I had recently sent some pictures to his parents. His father knew who I was, he was trying to provoke my partners wife. So of course my partners wife called my partner and complained.

I do not want to get in the middle of that.

I told my partner this is why he needs to get a divorce.

We'll be talking about that tomorrow.

[unicorn2014]

Formflier in our case his calendar is much more detailed then mine and I can just turn it off if I don't want to see it. It keeps thing simpler in a LDR.

Otoh sometimes I feel like I'm not even free to read my own books, my partner wants to know everything I'm doing, wants to be a part of it all.

To be fair to my partner I wouldn't necessarily say he needs to know where I am but it is easier if I tell him. Also I too would like to know where he is and what's he doing but I think this is because we're in a LDR. I can't just get on the bus and go see him.

[Grey Kitty]

Grey kitty, when I read your thread it reminds me of my thread about beginning not to care anymore. One of things my pwBPD likes to tell me is I am different , this relationship he actually cares about. That means nothing to me.

That kind of statement shouldn't mean anything to you, without something to back it up. How he treats you is what you experience. If he treats you well because of what you mean to him--THAT is what matters. (Sorry if this is harsh or works against your r/s)

Yesterday my partners father had called his wife asking who I was since I had recently sent some pictures to his parents. His father knew who I was, he was trying to provoke my partners wife. So of course my partners wife called my partner and complained.

I do not want to get in the middle of that.

I told my partner this is why he needs to get a divorce.

We'll be talking about that tomorrow.

I agree 100% that there is a problem in how your partner relates to his wife. He has poor boundaries with her. (So does his father) They have no business yanking you into that kind of dysfunction.

Not that you can stop them from trying... .your best move is to refuse to participate when they do that kind of crap.

I'm not sure about the divorce, and especially about you pushing your partner to do it.

1. It is his relationship not yours. It is his responsibility to deal with it as he sees fit. It is NOT your place to tell him what he has to do about it.

If it truly matters to you enough that you will end your r/s with him because he is still married, yes, you should tell him that. But even then, it is his choice to divorce or not, and your choice to stay with him or not.

2. Even if he does get divorced, that doesn't mean you will get any less of this drama and crap.

Allow me to relate a stray comment I heard from a friend of mine. She and her partner (not legally married, but own a house together and have been together over ten years) have a great relationship. I respect both of them a LOT. And I remember her commenting about "The first time her partner stood up to his exwife." This was years after they had split, divorced, and he had been in this new, solid, wonderful relationship for years as well.

If your partner is still enmeshed with his wife, if he is still susceptible to the emotional manipulative games she plays, if he still participates in those games... .that is going to impact you. Whether they are legally married or not!

So my suggestion is to put your foot down about the bad behavior that is pulling you into the middle of stuff. (And enforce boundaries of not participating) Let him decide about the divorce on his own. I'm sure he already knows how little you enjoy that he is still married!

[unicorn2014]

Hi grey kitty, we were supposed to meet last week to go over his escrow papers and divorce decree but then his work and my daughter both had things come up so we're supposed to do that tomorrow.

I think my partner is having a relationship with me to avoid dealing with his wife, so I try to avoid to getting in the middle.

My partner does treat me well , except I'm tired of the drama with his wife. Yesterday he told me she thought it was inappropriate I sent pictures to his parents even though his mother wanted to see them. He hadn't contacted his parents in 3 years so they were shocked to see him smiling and healthy with me. He told me his mom wants him to be happy.

[Grey Kitty]

I've got no doubt that your partner is able to avoid thinking about his wife by thinking about you. Not much you can do about that though.

Yesterday he told me she thought it was inappropriate I sent pictures to his parents even though his mother wanted to see them. He hadn't contacted his parents in 3 years so they were shocked to see him smiling and healthy with me. He told me his mom wants him to be happy.

What an interesting and tangled web we weave!

So ... .I don't know your whole story, and some of these parts fit together oddly... .and with poor boundaries.

1. His stbexW thought it was inappropriate that you sent pix to his mother.

I'm assuming you have no relationship with his stbexW. If so, her opinions don't really matter to you.

Did he relay that statement to you with agreement, disagreement, or something else?

It should matter to YOU if he thinks it was inappropriate.

2. He hasn't contacted his parents in 3 years.

Given that you got in a r/s with him thinking he was single and being deceived about this by him, and are still a bit hurt by that, I somehow thought your r/s with him was less than 3 years old.

Have you met his parents? Do you have your own relationship with his parents? Do his parents know he is in r/s with you? Do they like you, approve, disapprove, etc?

Depending on circumstances, this could be a little weird too.

... .but any way you slice all this... .the healthiest thing you can do is leave his r/s with his stbexW to him, avoid any involvement you can, and discourage him from discussing it with you/confiding in you about her. Not because you don't care, but because you don't want to be put in the middle triangulating.

[unicorn2014]

1. He disapproved of his wife's attitude towards me.

2. I've been in a relationship with him 3+ years.

3. His parents know we are together, his dad sent me a card back, I haven't met them yet. They want him to be happy, his mom does. His dad likes his wife however he was impressed I reached out to him so we'll see.

4. So how do I respond when he tells me about his wife?

[unicorn2014]

5. I should also ask what should I do when he wants to talk to me about his divorce? We're supposed to meet tomorrow to go over his divorce decree and escrow papers because I had to asked to see them but what about after that? I don't really want to know anymore about it until it's done. I'm not happy it's been 3 years. I don't care whose fault it is. He's not coming to see me this thanksgiving because of it. I don't want him staying with me.

[Grey Kitty]

  Sorry if anything with those questions came out judgmental of you or your situation. It is a bit of a tangled mess... .and wishing it wasn't won't change it. So what can you do here?

4. So how do I respond when he tells me about his wife?

I'm guessing that most of the stuff he tells you about his wife fits into the category of triangulation--Complaining about her, hoping to get sympathy from you. (Have you read about the Karpman drama triangle?)

If that's what happens... .I'd recommend you not participate in it. Using similar techniques to avoiding an argument.


Regarding the divorce/escrow paperwork, I think you hit the nail on the head here:

I don't really want to know anymore about it until it's done.

If you are scheduled to meet tomorrow about that paperwork, I'd recommend you be honest about this, and tell him that.

He's not coming to see me this thanksgiving because of it. I don't want him staying with me.

If you are that upset about it that you don't want to see him over Thanksgiving, that is a very real feeling and (to my eye, anyhow), not unreasonable.

I'm going to recommend that you be very clear that you care about the result... .but you aren't going to take the role of nagging him about it, planning it out with him, etc., etc. All you want are a very few honest status reports about what he is doing.

Q: You say he deceived you about being married early on... .has he made a long string of promises to get divorced and failed to live up to them? (I'm asking to determine how credible any promised dates he gives you tomorrow will be.)

I've got a very close friend in a similar situation, although happily both she and her guy lack mental illness. My friend has the good fortune to be at a point in her life where waiting for him to divorce isn't really getting in the way of her life, due to other things she is focused on this year... .which makes not pressuring him much easier. My suspicion is that either he will get the divorce (most likely), or in a year or two, she will be done waiting, and move on looking for somebody else.

I suggest you work really hard to accept that you do NOT have control over if or when he gets a divorce. That is up to him, his wife, and the legal system. Accept this, and try to decide how long you can wait, and what you are willing to do while you are waiting. Decide for yourself what works for you. Then you can communicate it and let him make his own choice what to do about it.

[unicorn2014]

Grey kitty, I didn't want to see him over thanksgiving because I didn't want him staying with me. I'm actually planning on going to a thanksgiving event put on by a 12 program I'm a member of.

All I can say at this point in the relationship is I want to stay far away from his dysregulated emotions. If I even so much as think he's acting weird I don't want to have anything to do with him. I've had way too many bad experiences with him.

I think the fact I'm having problems with my father right now is making me more sensitive to my partner .

[RedPixie]

However I don't recommend you act from quite that place. Instead, consider this:

"You can't bear to be around his BEHAVIOR."

Or better yet:

"You choose not to be present for his BEHAVIOR."

I am so glad to read this.

This is exactly what i say to him

Its not you , i love you

Its your behaviour.

The 2 posts have been very enlightening

Thank you so much for taking time to connect and explain.

X

Pixie

[pallavirajsinghani]

I have one communication suggestion that I learnt while dealing with "high conflict" situations and people.  I did not read about it, but it upon it intuitively.  It works for me all the time in diffusing these situations and virtually with zero argument.

Instead of explaining things logically, I explain them in terms of emotion.

A hypothetical example:

(The high conflict situation, the anxiety level of my boss very high, project is done but he is flipping out over some minor detail)

Supervisor--"I don't understand why this phrase is being used.  I have told you many times that it should not be so.  Why do you insist on doing it this way?"

(It seems that the supervisor wants me to answer logically... .but this is not a logical situation to begin with.  You cannot balance emotion with logic... .therefore any logical reply would turn into an argument.)

So I would reply,  "Well, that phrase felt right intuitively.  I have no logical explanation for using it.  Sure, from now on, I will submit all drafts to you for review and then only pursue items further once you've given your feedback... ." This creates more work, puts the monkey on his back, and backs me out of the situation gracefully.

If I begin to cite law and facts and logic... .it will become a pissing contest of who is right and who is more right than the other and who is more intelligent than the other and so on... .

Same in personal volatile situations (I am a non-married to a non... .by volatile I mean just at the level that non's go through)"

Husband--fatigued after a 12-14 hour work day... ."I am so sick of this washing... .every shirt I pick is sometimes pink, and then a few months later, all my underwear is blue and my socks are a different color... .why can't the whites of the white clothes be white?"

(Yes, many times I mix up the clothes in a hurry and the Indian silks are dyed with vegetable/organic material and guaranteed to bleed. So his complaint is right... .sometimes his white socks become light blue, his underwear pink... .)

Now the logical answer is:  I work, I cook, I clean, I parent for the two of us because he earns for the two of us (mine is a part-time job) and sanitation is more important to me than perfection and clutter control and mostly because I multi-task, I am preoccupied.

To give him a logical answer explaining all of the above will become an argument as to who works harder etc.

So I say,  'Yea, I know it is funny to have pink underwear and blue socks... .and that'w what makes a happy marriage and you have awesome high cheekbones that even a fatigued wife can admire 24 hours a day... ."

I just do not get caught up in an argument... .as I am growing older, my skill to diffuse volatile situations is getting better and better.

My teenager cries and is totally upset at her father... .I don't even listen, nor do I ask, what happened?  I don't analyze... .I just hug her and hug her and make soothing sounds until the storm passes.  Then, only then, after a couple of days, quietly together with her, gently I begin to initiate solutions.

So, to many questions as to why you did this or why you did not do that... .you can just say,  "Hmmm... .hindsight being 20 20... .and then trail off the sentence... .you don't need to justify or explain or defend... .neither he nor you can be the monday morning quarterback... .