Is it me?

[sweet tooth]

I just realized that every significant relationship I've had has been with people who abused me.

-I was sexually assaulted by a male peer over a year and a half period when I was 14-15 years of age.

-My longest term high school girlfriend had BPD and would cut herself in front of me.

-The girl I idolized throughout high school and college turned out to be an Alpha Female/Narcissist. She used and manipulated me when it was to her advantage yet ignored me when I was no longer valuable to her.

-I was involved with a woman two summers ago who was very emotionally unstable. In hindsight, I think she had Histrionic Personality Disorder. She was very sexualized, manipulative, and flattering. We went out once and halfway through the date she told me she was pregnant with another guy's kid. Shortly after that she Split me black and it got really ugly. It didn't help that we worked together.

-Most recently I've been involved with a woman who is emotionally unstable due to past trauma. When she's in the right frame of mind everything is great. However, she'll disappear for weeks on end. Then she'll come back is if nothing happened.

I'm almost 30 years old and I've NEVER had a healthy sexual or romantic relationship. I haven't been sexual with anybody since high school. I've still never had intercourse. That fact makes me feel unlovable, unattractive, and worthless.

Is it me? Am I doing something to attract abusive people? It feels like I'm doomed never to be intimate with anybody and that I'll constantly be abused.

[Grey Kitty]

Is it you?

Well, you have identified a pattern.

And one likely consequence of that pattern is that you don't know what a non-abusive intimate relationship feels like.

I can't find any way around the hard truth that you did pick people to get involved with (or willingly accept advances from people) who treated you poorly. Obviously, you didn't say "I'm going to look for an abusive person to get in a r/s with."

Q: Were your parents supportive? neglectful? abusive? absent?

Q2: Did you get any support after the sexual assault as a teen?

Are you doomed to continue repeating this pattern of abuse?

That is a resounding NO.

Especially because you are asking this question.

Do you have any trustworthy friends, family members, other supporters, a therapist? I know you have this community here to support you, at least.

Focus on taking good care of yourself while you are single, and when you feel ready to date, or stumble into another potential relationship, make sure you check in with your supporters about how it is going and feeling. You need more eyes to see if you are heading toward old (abusive) territory... .or to confirm that new territory is different and strange, but worth checking out.

[sweet tooth]

Is it you?

Well, you have identified a pattern.

And one likely consequence of that pattern is that you don't know what a non-abusive intimate relationship feels like.

I can't find any way around the hard truth that you did pick people to get involved with (or willingly accept advances from people) who treated you poorly. Obviously, you didn't say "I'm going to look for an abusive person to get in a r/s with."

Q: Were your parents supportive? neglectful? abusive? absent?

Q2: Did you get any support after the sexual assault as a teen?

Are you doomed to continue repeating this pattern of abuse?

That is a resounding NO.

Especially because you are asking this question.

Do you have any trustworthy friends, family members, other supporters, a therapist? I know you have this community here to support you, at least.

Focus on taking good care of yourself while you are single, and when you feel ready to date, or stumble into another potential relationship, make sure you check in with your supporters about how it is going and feeling. You need more eyes to see if you are heading toward old (abusive) territory... .or to confirm that new territory is different and strange, but worth checking out.

My upbringing was unique. My mother is overbearing and has poor mental health. My father works in the mental health field  but he's emotionally distant. My sister is manipulative and bullied me when we were children. I don't have a good relationship with her.

I've received counseling for the sexual abuse. My parents basically swept it under the rug. My dad's line, "why didn't you just fight him off" just sticks in my mind. Do you have any idea how frustrating it is to have a father who is a psychologist say something like that to you? Probably not... .

[sweet tooth]

And, no. My support system sucks. I have very few reliable friends. My parents are so-so. My sister is useless. I'm going back to counseling.

[eeks]

Hi sweet tooth,

Welcome to the Personal Inventory board!  

I'm almost 30 years old and I've NEVER had a healthy sexual or romantic relationship. I haven't been sexual with anybody since high school. I've still never had intercourse. That fact makes me feel unlovable, unattractive, and worthless.

I would like to point out an assumption I think I see you making here, because it's one I have made as well.  "People choose what's valuable, and move away from what's not valuable, so if I'm not getting 'chosen', I'm not valuable."  That you suffer, and that you feel lonely, and want very much to have emotional and physical intimacy... .this is legitimate.  But it doesn't mean you're undesirable.  It's so difficult, I know, to take disappointing circumstances and not make them mean anything about you.

I'm almost 37, and have had very few and very short relationships.  One of the suggestions my therapist has made is that the sexual abuse my mother went through at age 4 that she didn't get therapy for, affected her attitude towards her own sexuality, life as a whole (anxiety and attempting to cope with it via control and exacting standards), and how she parented me, in ways I didn't realize how far-reaching they were.  

I've discovered recently that although I want a loving relationship very much, and to an extent I do trust people, there's a degree of intimacy (emotional too, not just sexual) past that where I don't trust men - that if a man were to genuinely care for me, I would not trust it because I'd think he had an ulterior motive.  

Now, that's pretty heavy, but I'm glad I know it's there.  

I think if you begin to ask yourself and work through the kinds of questions Grey Kitty asked you, you will find that your feelings and beliefs will start to shift.

My dad's line, "why didn't you just fight him off" just sticks in my mind. Do you have any idea how frustrating it is to have a father who is a psychologist say something like that to you? Probably not... .

I really have difficulty maintaining my composure when I hear someone being even subtly blamed for having been abused or mistreated.  What your father said was just plain unfair.  Not to mention, potentially incorrect.  I wish I had the link for you but a few months ago I remember reading an article that explains physiological reasons why victims of sexual assault sometimes freeze and don't fight back.  I also have to assume that the emotional dynamics of sexual abuse/assault are far more complicated than "why didn't you just... ." anything.  You deserve to tell your story as it happened to you and have supportive, objective people to help you sort out what's true for you.

[sweet tooth]

Thank you, Eeks. My father is a good man. From what I'm told, he is the best psychologist in our area. He is also generally a good father. However, he is incapable of being a good father and a good psychologist at the same time (at least in my case) and I suffer for it. He treats my mother and me differently than he treats his patients. All of these people tell me how much he's helped them emotionally, but he sweeps my issues under the rug. Ironically, he's able to be an emotional support for my sister. This adds to my resentment of my sister. My sister has a perfect life with her big house, husband, picket fence, and solid career while I'm approaching 30, working a meaningless job for very little money, and still living with my parents. She calls about her "problems" (I use quotes because the things she complains about to my parents are insignificant in my opinion) such as her baby keeping her up at night, not having any time to go out with her husband, etc, while I'm legitimately suffering. My dad is more than willing to listen to my sister vent about nonsense that every parent goes through but refuses to acknowledge that I was sexually abused for a year and a half and have serious PTSD symptoms because of it.

Case in point, I have severe school anxiety. I recently decided to go back to school to get s Master's Degree. I discussed my concerns with him and his response was, "Academics are easy." The case was closed. My feelings were unjustified and I should consider something challenging for me easy. That's what I got out of that discussion. The entire situation is frustrating and it hurts like hell.

[PDQuick]

Hi Sweet Tooth,

I'm really encouraged to see you asking these really hard questions of yourself, and the willingness to delve deeper into your upbringing to look for not only clues, but causation and solutions. It's not a road that many are willing to travel quite yet, but it is a very productive road to set your course on.

I faced very similar circumstances growing up. There is adequate evidence that my mother was sexually abused, as well as her family by their father. My father grew up an orphan, knowing that his mother did not want him. He was in the military, and was away most of the time, while my mom was a stay at home mother. Needless to say, neither had the tools to raise me in a functional way, although they raised me the best way they knew how, and loved me the best way they knew how. I love both of my parents very much, and wouldn't trade them for the world, but after I grew into an adult, I was not equipped to handle the things that life was bringing to the table.

I applaud you for going back to counseling. It was the single most important thing I did for myself. That, and joining this forum.

I did reach a point where I had to look upon both of my parents as human beings, rather than parents. Not only human beings, but flawed human beings with a dysfunctional past. Once i did that, I was able to see that despite their flaws, and short comings, they raised me the best way they knew how. I couldn't exactly ask them to build me a space shuttle and get me to the moon, but they did get me into adulthood with all of my limbs in place, and no serious problems like addictions.

From there, it was a great journey of self discovery, and a lot of relearning things that my parents, despite their best efforts, taught me.

One of those things I learned was how to love me, be my friend, and accept only what I wanted in my life, rather than what ever landed in my life. I learned my value, and started demanding it from others, so to speak.

A song that really resonates with me has some great lyrics that helped me through these times:

I prayed for strength

And I got pain that made me strong

I prayed for courage

And got fear to overcome

When I prayed for faith

My empty heart brought me to my knees

I don't always get what I want

I get what I need

Keep traveling down this road, it will take you to where you want to be!

[Grey Kitty]

Circling back, I wanted to address this--I know enough about the territory you are in here.

I'm almost 30 years old and I've NEVER had a healthy sexual or romantic relationship. I haven't been sexual with anybody since high school. I've still never had intercourse. That fact makes me feel unlovable, unattractive, and worthless.

There is a LOT of literature pointing out how society's opinion toward women is toxic. Promoting a sexualized barbie doll ideal of a woman, and shaming any woman who actually does have sex, or admits to liking it, and expecting women to be completely passive. There has been a little written about how the flipside harms men too, and that is what you and I are experiencing.

As a man, if we don't have dozens of conquests over women, we are considered inadequate. We are expected to actively pursue women, face rejection, and (preferably) beat down and overcome that rejection.

Just in case anybody thinks I'm promoting this, no I'm not. I'm stating that our pop culture told us that this is what it means to be a real man, and it isn't healthy, and for many of us, it isn't even possible to be that way.

I'm far older than you, have had fewer (but longer and somewhat better) relationships, and still cringe at my own inadequacy with girls (and then women) from the age of puberty through my early twenties.

As a kid I had BAD social awkwardness and a good bit of shyness as well. I never went to a school dance. In high school, I only went on one 'date' and didn't realize that it might have been a date until years later. I was three years into college before I even kissed a girl, and that was because she was the one who approached me.

Now that that marriage is over except for dividing up a lot of loose ends and legal paperwork, I'm finally thinking that I might do this dating and relationship thing 'right' sometime before I'm 50. (Yes, I did marry the first woman I ever kissed, and yes, she asked me to marry her instead of me doing it the other way 'round, as all cultural norms say I should have.)

I have some idea how worthless and inadequate you feel over your sexual and relationship history--I'm still amazed at how many  female friends of mine (and lovers) have told me that I am attractive, desirable for a relationship, and very much adequate. At some level, deep down, I still don't quite believe it. Despite all evidence pointing that direction.

And, no. My support system sucks. I have very few reliable friends. My parents are so-so. My sister is useless. I'm going back to counseling.

Do go back to counseling. And don't be afraid to shop for a better therapist if you aren't comfortable with the one you find. Even a good therapist may not be the one you feel safe with, or connect with properly.

Re-reading your history, I have the thought "There but for grace of God went I." My parents did their best. They weren't abusive or neglectful of me. Still ... .Had I experienced the sexual abuse you did at age 14~15, I don't believe they would have been capable of giving me better support for that than you got from your parents. Would I have ended up in the sort of series of abusive relationships you did after that for the next 15 years? Sadly all too likely.

I've been through a year of hell myself (separating from my wife), and had some tough years before that as well.

My parents are supportive... .at a very low level, offering basic kindness and physical/financial support. I haven't even shared how I felt about my wife with them yet. I barely shared with them a quarter of the story of how our marriage blew up. Sometimes I feel bad at not expecting more from them or even giving them the chance to offer me more.

I have been truly blessed by my friends who have supported me. I posted about the process of building my support system (I call it "Team Grey Kitty" here, maybe a year ago, and encouraging others to build their own support network. I've found this article very helpful (in my case, after the fact, as I had built my team before I read it), especially this conclusion

Your rock friendships don’t warrant 2x the time you give to your other friends—they warrant 5 or 10x. And keep in mind that seeing one of them for an hour-long meal isn’t really enough—your rocks deserve serious, dedicated time so you can stay close. So go make plans with them.

www.waitbutwhy.com/2014/12/10-types-odd-friendships-youre-probably-part.html

What he calls rock friendships are those that are really important to you, and he calls lifelong friends.

In my case, I have to back down from the lifelong side, and you may need to as well. It is *very* common for people who have been in abusive enmeshed codependent and unhealthy relationships to stop and examine that, and move on ... .then notice that many of their professional relationships, and many of their friendships are also unhealthy, and discover that for their own health, they need to cull the herd a bit.

There are two particular friends that I've called the Co-Captains of Team Grey Kitty, and they are just that -- the rocks in my life. But they aren't the ones I've know all my life. One I've only known for a two years. The other I've known for less than five years. Both of them are friendships I chose to put more energy and vulnerability into when my marriage started to really fail a year ago. I really needed support at that time, and I reached out to other friends as well, some older, some newer.

I still don't know why I chose to call one that night when my world was crashing down around me. I have to guess that had she not been the right one, I would have called a few more that night or following days, and would have found the right one. Whatever intuition led me in that direction, it was clearly RIGHT. I took a big risk being vulnerable with her, and it paid off unbelievably.

I hope this story inspires you -- Think about your friends carefully. Which ones have earned your trust. Put more energy into those friendships. They are worth it.

Also think about the people in your life that aren't your closest friends... .are there some that seem to be living life a way that you respect and admire? Is there a way you can get closer to these people, make more room for them in your life and nurture these relationships?

[ambivalentmom]

My dad's line, "why didn't you just fight him off" just sticks in my mind. Do you have any idea how frustrating it is to have a father who is a psychologist say something like that to you? Probably not... .

I can't even imagine a parent trying to rationalize and blaming the victim when it's their own child!  He's also a professional in validating and helping people, but doesn't use this knowledge for his son.  One of the biggest things I think of when I learn something new is, "How can I use this information to benefit my kids."  I don't think frustrated even begins to touch on the feelings associated with this; I'm livid from just reading this post.  I am very sorry that your father was very invalidating and hurtful. (I changed this last sentence about five times)

A lot of my past issues are with my previous marriage, but I did try a variation of different coping strategies that I use when my mom invalidates.  I visualize myself walking-up and hugging myself as a child.  I picture what I looked like, felt, and things that could be bothering me when I was that age (I'm usually a 12yo).  Then I praise and validate my child-self as a grown-up.  I call myself Little L... .(ironically not a name I use for myself in real life).  I will take care of that child for as long as she needs and picture myself holding and protecting her against grown-ups.  I tell her this is not her fault and a parent should never act like this toward their child.  When she grows up healthy, I will be her friend to validate and support her as an adult while she suffers through the abusive marriage.  I hope that part of me will grow up stronger and I will be more positive because of it.  Don't know if that's something you can try to help, but I thought I'd put it out there.

[sweet tooth]

@ambivalentmom: Years ago, my therapist also suggested I visualize myself protecting my younger self. I was doing well for a long time, so I forgot about it.

There have been many times when I've felt invalidated. One time a relative stole from me and my mom allowed that person back into our home. The most recent was when the woman I've being seeing asked me how many women I've slept with. I replied by saying I have sexual issues because I was assaulted and I've never had intercourse. She said taking someone's virginity is huge and she wasn't sure if she could handle it emotionally. I responded by telling her that she's the only person I've ever felt comfortable enough with to consider having sex with. Since then I haven't heard from her. I tried contacting her several times without response. She called me once after I left her a voice mail, but I was unavailable to answer. She didn't leave a voice mail. I tried calling her three more times. Nothing. It's been almost a month since we've communicated. She's done the disappearing/reappearing act before, but never for this long. I can't describe how betrayed and hurt I feel.

[Grey Kitty]

She said taking someone's virginity is huge and she wasn't sure if she could handle it emotionally.

Yes, it was painful and hurtfulhow she dealt with this... .but I see the blessing in disguise. When she said she couldn't handle it emotionally, I'm sure she was right--she isn't handling anything with you well emotionally. That (or the feelings that follow) won't go well for her OR for you if she did try.

 I hope you find somebody else who has the emotional maturity to do that for you in a kind and loving way.

[sweet tooth]

I don't understand how somebody can go from telling me nobody ever treated her as well as I have and telling me how the last time we were together was one of the best days of her life to completely ignoring me. And go from chatting literally every day for hours to nothing.  I just don't get that. How can somebody just give up on another person that made them feel so good? What am I supposed to do or say if she comes back as if nothing ever happened (which is more than likely inevitable)? That really put me in a tough spot. As much as she treated me poorly, I still care about her. I have very conflicted feelings.

[sweet tooth]

She has a lot of issues, too. She was abused by her ex-husband and has a fear of intimacy because of it. She even admitted it will take years for her to heal. I told her several times I was happy how things were going.

Why the hell did she bring up sex if she thought she couldn't handle it? Why not just go how we were going? I was perfectly fine with that. I would much rather hang out with her without sex than have her disappear. It hurts like hell... .

[C.Stein]

You know, I am also struggling with the WHY WHY WHY WHY!

It is not likely we will get any answers either.

[sweet tooth]

You know, I am also struggling with the WHY WHY WHY WHY!

It is not likely we will get any answers either.

Why do you assume there won't be any answers?

[C.Stein]

 In my case even if I were to get answers, which I won't, I don't know if they would be honest ones.  Also my ex has her own way of twisting around reality, so what she may believe to be truth is anything but.

[sweet tooth]

@stein: I'm very sorry to hear that.

[Grey Kitty]

I don't understand how somebody can go from telling me nobody ever treated her as well as I have and telling me how the last time we were together was one of the best days of her life to completely ignoring me. And go from chatting literally every day for hours to nothing.  I just don't get that. How can somebody just give up on another person that made them feel so good? What am I supposed to do or say if she comes back as if nothing ever happened (which is more than likely inevitable)? That really put me in a tough spot. As much as she treated me poorly, I still care about her. I have very conflicted feelings.

I don't really understand how she could do that on a visceral level where I could imagine doing anything of the sort, but I do understand how a pwBPD does this.

Part of the disorder is that whatever feelings she has, THAT INSTANT, are facts, and they are true now, and were true forever, and will be true forever. And the feeling can change, then everything changes again, twenty minutes or two weeks later.

When she feels happy and like she loves you, you are the best thing on the planet, and she wants to be around you all the time. (painting you white)

When she's feeling hurt, afraid, insecure, or something, you made her feel that way, and her reality doesn't include anything nice or kind you did for her... .or if she remembers those things, you did them for selfish manipulative reasons instead. That is her reality at that time. (painting you black)

When she next paints you white, pretty much anything she did before to reject you or hurt you also ceased to exist in her mind.

But your brain doesn't do this--you remember how she treated you both good and bad. Of course it is confusing, and you feel conflicted about it.

If you reconnect with her, this is what you get--someone who can and will do both these things to you.

[sweet tooth]

I don't understand how somebody can go from telling me nobody ever treated her as well as I have and telling me how the last time we were together was one of the best days of her life to completely ignoring me. And go from chatting literally every day for hours to nothing.  I just don't get that. How can somebody just give up on another person that made them feel so good? What am I supposed to do or say if she comes back as if nothing ever happened (which is more than likely inevitable)? That really put me in a tough spot. As much as she treated me poorly, I still care about her. I have very conflicted feelings.

I don't really understand how she could do that on a visceral level where I could imagine doing anything of the sort, but I do understand how a pwBPD does this.

Part of the disorder is that whatever feelings she has, THAT INSTANT, are facts, and they are true now, and were true forever, and will be true forever. And the feeling can change, then everything changes again, twenty minutes or two weeks later.

When she feels happy and like she loves you, you are the best thing on the planet, and she wants to be around you all the time. (painting you white)

When she's feeling hurt, afraid, insecure, or something, you made her feel that way, and her reality doesn't include anything nice or kind you did for her... .or if she remembers those things, you did them for selfish manipulative reasons instead. That is her reality at that time. (painting you black)

When she next paints you white, pretty much anything she did before to reject you or hurt you also ceased to exist in her mind.

But your brain doesn't do this--you remember how she treated you both good and bad. Of course it is confusing, and you feel conflicted about it.

If you reconnect with her, this is what you get--someone who can and will do both these things to you.

Just to be clear, she isn't diagnosed with BPD. She has some BPD traits. I am speculating that she made have a mild case of BPD. Let me put it to you this way: I'm not a mental health expert. I worked in the field for a few years, but I am far from an expert. However, I know enough to realize when someone is "off." She might have PTSD from the spousal abuse, she might have GAD, she might be bipolar. She has some symptoms of all of these disorders. Her dad can be insensitive and somewhat cruel to her in my opinion, too, so that might be a root cause. I don't know. I'm not in a position to diagnose somebody. I don't know for a fact that she's painting me black. She doesn't go overboard and say "I love you more than life itself and I couldn't live without you" or any other melodramatic nonsense (I have had a woman say stuff like that to me before). What she has told me:

-Nobody has treated her as well as I have (although on another occasion she said I "mostly" treat her how she deserves to be treated. Her complaint was that I was pushy with getting her to answer texts quickly when we first started interacting).

-I'm helping her become a better person

-She wants me in her life.

-If she feels pressured she'll "run" and she doesn't want to.

However, then she'll completely ignore me for weeks. She only blew up on me once and it was very mild. However, she has confessed that when she gets mad she says things that she doesn't mean. Maybe it is a mild form of painting me black. I don't know. You guys know a lot more about this stuff than I do.

[sweet tooth]

This blurb is from Psychology Today. It describes her to a "T." When she becomes overwhelmed she withdraws into her cocoon for an unknown period of time.

"The demure borderline character retreats from a situation where they perceive themselves to be victimized or potentially victimized and engages in a sort of "social dissociation" - a kind of morbidly passive-aggressive reaction to social stressors that looks and feels like a complete emotional shutdown and withdrawal; this is informed in part by an intense imperative on the part the individual to avoid taking responsibility of any kind for surrounding situations and circumstances, even when those situations and circumstances are self-created. Think "professional victim"."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/enlightened-living/200906/blackwhite-interpersonal-relationships-and-borderline-behavior

[Grey Kitty]

You know her far better than I do--and you seem to have some understanding of her behavior, and where it comes from. It looks like I described a different flavor of BPD characteristics than the one she displays... .

However I don't find it particularly useful to focus deeply on what your partner's precise mental health issues and causes are, because they are so far outside your control.

My point here is that you know who she is, both at her "good" times and her "bad" times. Both are real parts of her, and neither is likely to change or go away.

If you want to be with her, knowing that she will alternate between being really sweet to you and completely disappearing for weeks at a time, choose that.

If the cost to you of the weeks where you are cut off and rejected is too high for you to pay, in terms of your self-esteem and peace of mind, don't choose to stay with her/let her back. (I believe you have indicated that the relationship is "off" right now)

What will help you is to accept her for exactly who she is, and make healthy choices for yourself on how to interact with her. You get to make your choice, and your life will reflect your choices. That is pretty powerful. In addition, if you don't like the way it is working, you can make different choices in the future.