What happens when they are truly alone?

[hashtag_loyal]

One thing that has been on my mind since learning about BPD, and that I don't have any answers for, is what happens to a pwBPD who is completely unable to get any kind of romantic relationship? Say due to weight gain or a physical deformity the pwBPD is just not attractive enough to receive romantic interest from anybody else? What then?

Anybody have any idea how this would affect the pwBPD? Thoughts?

[balletomane]

I feel a bit uncomfortable with this question, as it implies that overweight people and people with physical impairments are unable to form relationships, which isn't true and could be hurtful to members here who are in these categories. I'm not sure what you're hoping to achieve by asking it.

[zundertowz]

I think it's a legitimate question to ask what happens to someone with BPD when they lack supply.  You can make an argument that their behavior is directly linked to how much supply they have.

[hashtag_loyal]

I feel a bit uncomfortable with this question, as it implies that overweight people and people with physical impairments are unable to form relationships, which isn't true and could be hurtful to members here who are in these categories. I'm not sure what you're hoping to achieve by asking it.

Balletomane, I see your perspective, and I can see how that could come off as offensive. I would like to apologize to anyone's feelings I may have hurt by implying or suggesting that.

Let me see if I can figure out a way to ask my actual question without being so insensitive or hurtful.

[hashtag_loyal]

I think it's a legitimate question to ask what happens to someone with BPD when they lack supply.  You can make an argument that their behavior is directly linked to how much supply they have.

Yes, that's a much better way of putting it.

If a pwBPD is so afraid of abandonment that he/she will often times have a "replacement", or potential replacements available, so that this person never has to be truly single. But what happens if that person is unable to find a replacement (for whatever reason?) How does this person respond? How would this possibly affect the person's psyche?

And taking the question even further, what if the pwBPD reached adulthood and had never been in a r/s? Would that person be considered BPD at all, or potentially a different disorder? How do they behave when there is nobody to attach to?

[Mr Hollande]

I think we all imagine a day when the entire world has given up on our BPD exes. Regardless of what superficial or deeper reasons may lay behind their state of total abandon I think we all imagine when they are finally alone with all their demons, all their shameful acts and all their baggage with no one left or forthcoming to soothe them anymore. What then?

At least that's what I think HL is saying. Hypothetical or an actual pending reality, I think it's a worthwhile topic.

[SummerStorm]

I do think it may be best to just ask what happens when they have no one left, due to their BPD behaviors.  I have a friend who is overweight and short and doesn't have a glamorous job (custodian at a school), but her bubbly, caring personality is what draws people to her, and she gets a lot of attention from nice, attractive guys and has a lot of friends of all ages and backgrounds.  So, that really has nothing to do with anything.

I think they will always be able to find someone, as there are plenty of people out there who are lonely, have low self-esteem, and/or are co-dependent.  

My former friend BPD goes through this whenever she needs a place to live.  She begs people on Facebook and gets no reply because her "friends" are either married or haven't heard from her in months and don't want to live with her.  Then, she stays with family or her mom's friends, until she finally finds somewhere to live.  

Recently, she's been losing people left and right.  She painted her dad and I black and broke up with her boyfriend.  He told all of his friends about her, so they won't talk to her.  Even people she's been friends with for years have stopped liking posts on her Facebook page, and people rarely comment on anything.  A picture she recently posted of her and her new boyfriend was liked a few times, but it was mostly by his friends.  The one person who seems to be sticking with her is a woman she met when she was in the psych ward, but she hasn't seen her since they were there together in June.  Her new boyfriend is being idealized like crazy right now, so he obviously doesn't know that anything is wrong.  

As long as she has a boyfriend, she thinks the world is great.  She says it doesn't matter to her if she has friends or not, but it sure does matter whenever she needs a place to live.  Eventually, all of those friends are going to go away.  She's 23 and has been out of college for a year.  Friends are getting married, having kids, moving away.  And she's still acting like a party girl.  People are going to get tired of it, simple as that.  

[Circle]

I think they might disappear, like Sauron from The Lord of the Rings. Then, after they slowly work their black magic, they'll be able to start taking form again; like the burning eye at the top of the dark tower. 

[still_in_shock]

When I've met my exh, he was a 27 y.o. white handsome american guy, who'd claimed he'd had kissed or had sex, let alone been in a relationship. He largely claimed it was due to his christian beliefs (abstinence till marriage) and also because he thought women were too much drama and never in his life did he planned marrying and/or having a relationship, until he met me - his 'goddess' - which flattered me a lot, of course. Two years down the road, and I discover the guy is a pretty bad sex addict and all other craziness, which makes me doubt if anything he said before was true.

A couple of months into our marriage working on some legal joint documents that required providing the history of residential addresses in the last five years, I was shocked to see he had changed about 13 addresses just in five years. I remember I was so stunned how come one moves around so frequently, but never actually got a definitive answer. Nowadays, after the hell of a disaster story with him, I believe such frequent chance of space might have been due to his conflicting nature when he cannot get along with people he shares space with. And since I know he is terrified of being/living alone and always moves into places with roommates, that makes the drama inevitable. I also felt like in about a year of us living at our new place, he was getting so agitated and uncomfortable at that place, as if his clock was ticking to move to the next location.

Has anyone else observed a similar pattern in their diagnosed or not BPD partners? Such intolerance for staying still at one living space long-term?

And taking the question even further, what if the pwBPD reached adulthood and had never been in a r/s? Would that person be considered BPD at all, or potentially a different disorder? How do they behave when there is nobody to attach to?

[rosesarered777]

I believe such frequent chance of space might have been due to his conflicting nature when he cannot get along with people he shares space with. And since I know he is terrified of being/living alone and always moves into places with roommates, that makes the drama inevitable. I also felt like in about a year of us living at our new place, he was getting so agitated and uncomfortable at that place, as if his clock was ticking to move to the next location.

Has anyone else observed a similar pattern in their diagnosed or not BPD partners? Such intolerance for staying still at one living space long-term?

And taking the question even further, what if the pwBPD reached adulthood and had never been in a r/s? Would that person be considered BPD at all, or potentially a different disorder? How do they behave when there is nobody to attach to?

That makes a lot of sense! I never understood why my exgf moved 5-6 times around the city and eventually 2 hours away (back home). Maybe they feel like they are engulfed if they live in 1 spot for too long?

[once removed]

hey hashtag_loyal 

a few thoughts:

yes, "any" is a strong word. i like to believe theres someone for everyone .

pwBPD seek attachments as a means of finding a sense of self. that can include friends or family. my ex has gone long stretches with no exclusive romantic relationship.

you might also try this link:  BPD BEHAVIORS: Waif, Hermit, Queen, and Witch 

hope this helps.

[zundertowz]

When I've met my exh, he was a 27 y.o. white handsome american guy, who'd claimed he'd had kissed or had sex, let alone been in a relationship. He largely claimed it was due to his christian beliefs (abstinence till marriage) and also because he thought women were too much drama and never in his life did he planned marrying and/or having a relationship, until he met me - his 'goddess' - which flattered me a lot, of course. Two years down the road, and I discover the guy is a pretty bad sex addict and all other craziness, which makes me doubt if anything he said before was true.

A couple of months into our marriage working on some legal joint documents that required providing the history of residential addresses in the last five years, I was shocked to see he had changed about 13 addresses just in five years. I remember I was so stunned how come one moves around so frequently, but never actually got a definitive answer. Nowadays, after the hell of a disaster story with him, I believe such frequent chance of space might have been due to his conflicting nature when he cannot get along with people he shares space with. And since I know he is terrified of being/living alone and always moves into places with roommates, that makes the drama inevitable. I also felt like in about a year of us living at our new place, he was getting so agitated and uncomfortable at that place, as if his clock was ticking to move to the next location.

Has anyone else observed a similar pattern in their diagnosed or not BPD partners? Such intolerance for staying still at one living space long-term?

YES! My ex had about 10 different former addresses and told me I have never lived in the same place for more than 3 years.  I think in part  it's because of turbulent relationships and also because she has always been poor.  What's even weirder is she seemed to have a different set of pets for each location and 2 locations burned down.  I never could get an answer what she did with all these pets and who has two houses that burn down?

[MakingMyWay]

My uBPDx waif would just turn into an emotionless robot until somebody came along to save her. I pulled her out of it at the start of our relationship and was quickly idealized, which felt great. Same thing happened to my replacement. Since her emotions were so amplified, she told me it was easier just to shut them off and feel nothing. 

[enlighten me]

I don't think they ever run out of "supply" as you call it. I would rather say they don't run out of enablers.

What do we do if we cant afford something? We downgrade. My ex MIL who I think may possibly be BPD has married a man that many would consider well below her. She was a looker and had plenty of admirers. Now in her sixties with failing health, no money and no prospects she has settled for someone that Im sure twenty years ago she wouldn't have even given the time of day.

Is she happy? I couldn't say but she has settled down and although not living the life that she thought she would have she is still surviving.

[Mr Hollande]

I think that's a good point, EM. They are survivors. They survive.

[Schermarhorn]

In the case of my ex, I don't think she ever will.

She's really short and small, and she plays the victim card well.

She also always goes out with full makeup on, she has to be looking her best where ever she goes.

Someone will always be there to rescue her.

[Creativum]

I appreciate your question, and I think what happens is that they sink further into the depressive/self-loathing side of BPD, exacerbating inward rage and suicidal behaviors, and there are probably increases in psychosis.  When you're not comfortable with closeness or intimacy, you push everyone away.  When you push everyone away, you have two choices:  Be alone, or develop unhealthy friendships/relationships with unhealthy people.  No matter how you slice it, though, the person is alone, lonely, and more anxious and depressed than ever.  At least, this is what I have observed in my BPD exes and the exes of friends.

My BPD ex is currently in the throes of active sex and porn addiction, complete with porn-induced erectile dysfunction.  He's in his late 20's and has struggled with this since he was a teen.  He has never had many friends, despite his party boy demeanor.  Usually people pick up on *something* about him (he mirrors REALLY hard) and don't try to be friends or engage more than a fleeting/casual acquaintanceship or sex.  He's effectively completely alone right now, without me.  And his addiction to porn means he's spending probably 5-8 hours a day looking at porn and further damaging his dopamine receptors.

When he was living in Big City, he had a huge group of party friends and he partied, partied, partied ... .and had sex, sex, more sex ... .but eventually, his immaturity caught up with him, and he wound up homeless.  THAT many "friends" and not one of them opened their home to him in his time of need.  Of course not -- because they were never friends.  And those people didn't fail to launch, so they're leaving him behind to be adults.  He says he's "too young" for so many things, but someone who knows they're "too young" for something is making an excuse for their behaviors.  If you're "too young" for something, you CAN'T KNOW that you're too young for it.

So, of course, after failing in Big City where there's a lot of supply, he went back to Mommy and has lived with her for nearly a year now.  He has a degree, but can't hold down a full-time job, and can't secure a "good" job.  Well, as a result of living in Tiny Town with Mommy, his only source of supply is Mommy.  So he became very rageful and suicidal and started drinking heavily very soon after he went back to her.  Then he met me.  He was haaaaappy as a clam for the four months we were together.  Then he ended it out of the blue.  Now he's trying to dress like me, getting in trouble at work for sexual harassment, sexually harassing people at his gym, drinking like a fish every night, and getting back into porn in a very big way. 

Sex isn't working out like he wants because, let's be honest, if you want THAT much sex, you're going to need to be able to draw people almost purely physically.  And he just doesn't have "it" -- he's hairy, skinny, mirrors too hard, and is way too intense about overstepping boundaries.  The men who gave him the most supply were usually at least twice his age, but now that he's in his late 20's, those guys aren't going to be interested in him.  "Chicken hawks" aren't interested in guys who look 30.  So there goes that option.  And young guys don't want someone who looks 30 but acts 16.  So there goes that option.  And normal, healthy adults are repelled by someone who is in their late 20's and has the emotional maturity of a maladjusted adolescent.  So that was never an option.  That's why he went after his 17-year old cousin a few months ago ... .Yeah.  That happened in real life.

I honestly worry every day if today will be the day that he ends himself.  I know he's incredibly dysregulated at the moment.  He has no one, never had anyone, never will have anyone.  He has a couple of INSANE first-degree relatives in their 50's, and if he doesn't wind up killing himself first, he will be exactly like them.  That's what happens.

[hashtag_loyal]

Thanks, everyone, for these good answers. Again, I am very sorry for the insensitivity of my original hypotheticals.

I guess the area I am having the hardest time with is what the purpose of the attachment is. Does a pwBPD attach to someone else in order to gain a needed sense of identity, or in order to meet the desperate cravings for affection and intimacy?

If it is for an identity, does the object of the attachment even need to be someone close in their life? Could they attach by obsessing over a celebrity, or by identifying with an external source of identity, such as with a sports team, or community?

As for the porn addiction, is that primarily to find a source of (synthetic) intimacy, or just a "drug" of choice to distract oneself from the constant, severe emotional pain? Or both?

[C.Stein]

Does a pwBPD attach to someone else in order to gain a needed sense of identity, or in order to meet the desperate cravings for affection and intimacy?

I think for my ex it was both.

[Creativum]

Thanks, everyone, for these good answers. Again, I am very sorry for the insensitivity of my original hypotheticals.

I guess the area I am having the hardest time with is what the purpose of the attachment is. Does a pwBPD attach to someone else in order to gain a needed sense of identity, or in order to meet the desperate cravings for affection and intimacy?

If it is for an identity, does the object of the attachment even need to be someone close in their life? Could they attach by obsessing over a celebrity, or by identifying with an external source of identity, such as with a sports team, or community?

As for the porn addiction, is that primarily to find a source of (synthetic) intimacy, or just a "drug" of choice to distract oneself from the constant, severe emotional pain? Or both?

Lots of questions!  Let's see here ... .Attaching to someone else for identity or intimacy?  Both, sort of.  They need the identity, desire the intimacy, but are terrified of the intimacy. I think this accounts for a lot of the push-pull behavior.  In fact, there IS NO INTIMACY because there can't be.  Intimacy requires emotional maturity, which a person with BPD does not have, unless you're willing to tell me that an 8-year old is capable of getting married in a stable and adult relationship?  This is why I'm of the opinion that a relationship with a person with BPD is simply untenable and should be avoided, but that's not up to me!

The cycle looks kinda like this:

Phase 1:  Seeking an identity and intimacy - Idealization

"I want to be you!  You're perfect!  I'm going to absorb you into my personality!"

Phase 2:  Reality - Devaluation

"WOW, now that I've absorbed you, I'm having trouble mirroring some of these things about you that I can't understand because I'm not mature enough to understand.  That must mean you're not perfect!  And now I'm you!  And if I'm you and you're not perfect, then that means I'm not perfect!  That means that all the bad things I think about myself must be true!  I hate you!  But I'm afraid of being alone!  So please don't leave me until I find someone perfect who won't lie to me about being perfect!" Initiate push-pull behavior to test you to see if you'll stay or leave. If you stay, you must be a bad person. If you leave, you must be a good person.

Phase 3:  Terror - Discard

"Get out before you ruin my identity!" (discard) -- This is when they actually do love you. That's the paradox. The more they love you, and the more you love them, the more they want you gone. This is why people with BPD get into ambivalent/abusive relationships and stay with them.  If someone doesn't respect you, then they're "good" because they know better than to respect someone as terrible as you.  If they're "good" then that means you're "good," too.  A person who does respect you is obviously manipulative, evil, and stupid, because who in their right mind would be with a person like you in the first place?  And when your identity is based on the mirror image of another, then you have to view yourself as manipulative, evil, and stupid, and it exacerbates your BPD.  

Phase 4:  Fear of being alone, leading to a recycle. (Optional)

And my ex did precisely what you're suggesting.  He would attach himself to complete strangers and obsess over them.  He was obsessing over a guy with a certain type of beard, and lo and behold, he did his the same way.  He grew up in privileged White Bread USA and, after a brief stint in a low-income African American neighborhood, decided that he identified with "The Struggle" and began getting very into African American culture (and men) and re-appropriating it.  He grew up atheist and went TWO TIMES to a Baptist church and became sobbingly emotional and was baptized, but quickly shed his conviction as soon as he stopped going to that church, as if it had never happened.  So no, it absolutely doesn't need to be someone close in their life.  Rather, it would be someone that they envy somehow.  They're children.  They go with the fads.  They don't evaluate what a group does against their own identity and belief system because they don't HAVE an identity or belief system.

The porn addiction thing is very complicated, and it would mean different things for different people with BPD.  For my ex, it's his self-harm/cutting, and goes with his body dysmorphia diagnosis.  I think this applies to a degree to all people with BPD for whom sexual activity is part of the pathology.  But I do think you're also correct.

And I just realized I expressed myself terribly in this post, so I apologize.  Let me know if you need clarification.

[once removed]

i would agree: varying extents of all of the above, and varying extents of consciousness.

we all have cravings for affection and intimacy. we also all have, to varying extents, engulfment and abandonment fears.

i didnt take breakups well in high school, and frankly still dont, but a lot has changed. id have a breakup, my confidence would be shot, but at the same time i felt like my solution to getting over the previous ex was to get in a new relationship. i think in that state, there werent many available partners. but eventually one would come, that, if unconsciously, sensed my desire to be rescued, and also had needs i could fulfill - in some ways, find my identity. in a lot of ways it would work. id get over the ex. id feel like a new man. it turned out a vicious, repetitive cycle.

part of it was my belief system. surely youve heard people talk about finding "the one" to "complete" them. i suspect i believed in that on some level. now, i hear it all the time, and it drives me up a wall.

my point is sometimes we can examine ourselves, and the general population, and find ways to relate to the pwBPD. pwBPD have a set of common traits as does the general population. you can find similar behaviors in a person who is emotionally immature, but not high on the borderline spectrum.

could they attach by obsessing over a celebrity, sports team, or community? thats tricky. depends on what you mean by "attach". i dont think you can psychologically attach to a sports team. a community? definitely. communities contribute to our sense of identity. a celebrity? unlikely in this context, but think of a stalker who believes a celebrity is communicating to them, or that the two of them are meant to be. possible? sure. not very applicable here. what is applicable, and i think what you are getting at, is would a pwBPD be prone to attempt to fill a void with these things, to which the answer is "sure". again, something i think we all do to varying extents.

i think you would benefit from diving into some of the psychology surrounding these issues. attachment styles, BPD and attachment, the sense of self. a great place to start in my opinion would be masterson and gunderson.

[Forteventur]

As for the porn addiction, is that primarily to find a source of (synthetic) intimacy, or just a "drug" of choice to distract oneself from the constant, severe emotional pain? Or both?

It could be both, or it could be neither.

He might've ended up addicted to porn by circumstance, by constant use - and constant exposure - since his teens (hell, I have some troubles myself trying to end the habit), not necessarily as a way to cope with pain. Idk, just felt like pointing this out.

It's like I live(d) the opposite of your situation, now that I look at it.

i.e. could be just a habit that escalated to addiction

[lm911]

Most of the time they have somebody. There might be a couple of months when they don't have an attachment, but it is temporarily and they feel very tragic but like it was mentioned before they survive.

[saintgrey]

I think they might disappear, like Sauron from The Lord of the Rings. Then, after they slowly work their black magic, they'll be able to start taking form again; like the burning eye at the top of the dark tower. 

Thats deep