FOG About Not Calling

[Turkish]

After 2.5 weeks, I called my mom tonight. Her voicemail.was full, no answer.

If I let it go more than 3 weeks, I get, "it's been months since you called," or,."thanks for remembering your mother." Since she got onto thyroid medication, it's been better talking to her.

Recently, however, her old phone died. She got a new one, but can't figure out how to call long distance. Dial 1?

She hasn't had LD for years due to being impulsive and racking up LD bills which were astronomical. So she can't figure out how to even use the new phone to input a calling card number, which she did previously. She lives in a small town. The utility is local. She could go to the office and the small-town friendly people would likely be more than happy to help her.

My birthday was two weeks ago. It would have been nice to get a call, not that I put too much stock into my birthday (yet here I am writing about it).

The sudden chill has come in California. I live by the ocean, while she lives in the mountains. It was almost cold enough for her to get snow earlier in the week. I'm more worried about her stubborness, "I'm going to die on the mountain," rather than birthday calls. She's a hoarder, living in a home which is literally falling down on top of her. She has no heat. In previous years, I've gotten her quartz space heaters, a ropane heater, and an electric oil heater. Also electric blankets, though one year, the chihuauas chewed that one up. If it gets to 40F in her room, it's a win. The rest of the house is at freezing or below.

For two years (since uBPDx left), I've been trying to coax her into living with us. My kods are still young. They could realistically share a room for 3 more years until D3 should have her own room. I got rid f one BPD, I certainly don't want another, but my mom doesn't have the acute anger issues my Ex has... .though she certainly did when I was a kid.

I like to think I could handle it better, being an adult, and 26 years since I moved out and haven't spent a night back since. Also having learned a lot here, which has helped. I guess I'm dreading the inevitable, and feelng guilty thinking it might be better if she "dies on the mountain," despite the result being a legal mess and a literal mess. 5 acres,.a dilapidated shack and a hoard? I supoose it's worth some money, but I don't care, nor want to deal with it when the time comes.

I titled this FOG. I guess that's about me more than her.

I wish I hadn't chosen a mate a lot like my mom "she hated my guts" I wish my mom were young enough to drive the 2.5 hrs to see the grandchildren she begged me to have for years, even trying to get me to adopt as a single parent as she did. I wish she wouldn't make waifish comments when she does see them,."I'm surprised they remember me." If wishes were fishes... .how does that go? 

[GreenGlit]

Hi Turkish,

It's always enlightening to hear the personal stories of the people that give consistent and sound advice to others. Thank you for sharing.

Wow. What a situation. I was reading this and thinking about my own relationship with my uBPD mother, and the multitude of threads here that all have the same theme: in this game, there is no winning move.

If Your mom stays in her home, she continues in this downward spiral of poor quality of life, living in squalor, and she also has the opportunities to complain about her relationship with her grandkids, whom she more rarely sees. But, you have your own life and peace of mind day to day in your home.

If your mom moves in, of course I don't need to enumerate the many problems that will bring to your home. But, your conscience might rest a little easier because you're being a "good son" and caring for your mom.

I think we both know it is likely that even if your mother lives at home and you cared for her every need, it would be unlikely to be a happy outcome for either party. You would be anxious, walking on eggshells, talking yourself out of the FoG daily. Your mother would likely find ways to make you feel frustrated.

I think you hit on a point briefly here that is important: the needs of your children. It seems that they have already been through stuff with your separation. As many of us have experienced, growing up in unstable environments can have significant consequences on adulthood. It's so easy to have our own needs, or other people's needs, so overwhelmingly shadowed by the perceived needs of our BPD mothers. It is a combination of the FOG thrust upon us as children, and their exaggerated behaviors that amplify their emotional needs and underline their difficult and painful existences.

This is about you, because it's your life. More than that, it is also the life of your daughters. Are they old enough to talk to about the situation? What is it like when grandma visits? What would make you happy? what do you foresee the outcome of this being?

Good luck. Hope to hear updates

[Harri]

Hi Turkish!  Happy Birthday to you!  So glad you are in the world and are who you are! 

Recently, however, her old phone died. She got a new one, but can't figure out how to call long distance. Dial 1?

You mentioned she seems to be in the beginning of dementia.  It is possible that she may really not know anymore how to dial long distance or use the phone.  My father forgot how to do basic things like dial the phone and heat soup in the microwave.  It was frustrating as hell for me (and him) and I had to keep reminding myself not to say things like "you know how to do this" and "remember Dad... ."  the fact is he would forget and he did not remember.  It is frustrating and sad and especially hard when it is the same sort of waifish behavior they have always had (my dad was not BPD but had many waif like traits).  I can imagine me having a hard time not yelling if she were my mother with the whole "you haven't called me in months" behavior.  The thing is, BPD or dementia, you can't change it and she will not change.  Even is she were living with you, it would not be much different Turkish.  I know this is something that has bothered you for a while.  The other thing is, she is who she is.  Can you just accept that she will do this regardless and expect to hear it when you do talk with her rather than hope to change it by having her remember something she may in fact not remember or choose to twish so she can play the victim role? 

For two years (since uBPDx left), I've been trying to coax her into living with us. My kods are still young. They could realistically share a room for 3 more years until D3 should have her own room. I got rid f one BPD, I certainly don't want another, but my mom doesn't have the acute anger issues my Ex has... .though she certainly did when I was a kid.

I  understand what you are saying here and I think it is generous of you to even want her to move in.  Consider though that waifish and manipulative behavior is just as, if not more, damaging to kids (and you) as is outright raging.  IMO, it is even harder to identify as being wrong and inappropriate... .certainly harder for kids to recognize it and not internalize.  I sound like a broken record, but give me a rager over a waif any day.

Okay, I have a question for you.  What kind of relationship do you think she would have with your kids if she lived with you?  What would her behaviors look like in your home setting?  Would you have her watch the kids while you were out?  Would you allow her to keep her animals and a certain amount of hoard in your home?  If no, how would you stop her?

What other realistic alternatives are there?  Would you ever call social services and report her?  It may be a step in the direction of getting a workable solution going.  Her moving in with you and your kids does not have to be inevitable.  What are other options (for now, forget what she would allow... .focus on what would work best for you and your kids).

[Woolspinner2000]

Happy Birthday Turkish! If there were a birthday cake I could put on here, I would. 

The responses to your post have been thoughtful and full of great ideas and questions.

Thank you for sharing some thoughts that obviously are heavy on your heart and mind. I think that I would also feel a lot like you do, caring in spite of all the stuff of the past because I do it all the time. I think it is a part of who we are, not only who we were trained to be. I've observed that you have a lot of compassion for those you care for when I read your posts.

Your note touched me for several reasons. One is because this past week I've been struggling with FOG as well, because I don't pick up the phone and call D2 (27) more often. Why don't I call her very much? Because I don't want to deal with the emotional dysregulation, the reminders of my uBPDm. I don't want to have to deal with her stuff. She cannot take responsibility for her own things; it's always someone else's fault.  Mind you I'm still very much in the process of learning how to handle people like her, and my DH is just the same. This week my T asked me, "When you deal with someone like D2 who always makes it about themselves and never about you, who do you want to be? Do you want to be a rescuer? You can, but will it help anyone in the end?"

Will it help you if you ask yourself who you want to be in the situation regarding your mom? I haven't tried it yet, this approach, but think it may be very helpful to me.

The other reason your post touched me is because my DH seems to be heading towards dementia as well. Like so many of us here, I was ignorant to the fact that I was marrying someone very similar to my uBPDm because that was what I was comfortable with. While I don't believe he has BPD, there are some N traits, and definitely lots of passive/aggressiveness. Now that there are pretty clear evidences of some cognitive decline, I am seeing those same traits still, but in excess both directions. He is more passive when he is in that cycle and more aggressive when in that cycle. The extremes are beginning to head toward outliers.

Your mom may quite likely react totally differently, and I only share my own experience. Do you think that similar things may take place with your mom? Have you or she ever thought of a visit to your place for a limited amount of time, like 2 weeks to see how things go? That may actually give you a good taste of what it would be like without long term commitment.

Wishing you the best as you ponder and heal and contemplate. May you be free from FOG. 

Wools

[JJssis]

Dear Turkish,

I'm so sorry you have to go through this with your mom.  

I am very new to this group and feel rather presumptuous offering any advice but I want to share something specific about my resent experiences with my BPD sister.  My sister "J" was verbally abusive in a very aggressive way toward my then 15 year old daughter (at that point I said she could not come to our home anymore and my daughter has chosen not to go to any family gatherings if her aunt J will be there).  When talking to my daughter about what her aunt had done I found out, that while it was by far the worst, it wasn't the first time.  I was shocked to find that J had been "saying bad and mean things", mostly about my parenting but also about the kids themselves, to my 3 older kids as far back as they could remember.  I feel so stupid saying I was shocked, but I was.  When the kids were younger, J was functioning better and we tried to laugh her off as "eccentric" a lot, her rages were less frequent and more private.  Many people didn't believe me when I said she had a problem.  She bought the kids off with gifts and/or made them feel like me (the MEAN person) would be mad at her and make other people hate her if they found out what she said, the "truth" as J called it.  I should have protected them better.  You are years ahead of me in awareness about how manipulative and deceptive people with this disorder can be, I'm sure I'm telling a cautionary tale you have already played out in your imagination.  

Also, is it possible that your mom could go into an assisted living facility?  If her living situation is unsafe and she is having symptoms of dementia it might be something to think about. I work with nursing homes and there are some very good ones. Maybe she could be close enough to see your daughters more.  Getting social services involved could be a good thing, it would take you out of the "bad guy" role and maybe help stabilize her. Depending on her age social security or medicare could help with the cost.

Take good care.

[Turkish]

Thanks everyone for your support and wisdom...

Thanks to D3 coughing and sneezing in my face, I'm not n the board so much today due to an eye infection. Vision better, as I'm about to turn in... .

My moms an RN, and worked geriatric care for the last 15 years of her career before she "retired" early due to depression. That the state enabled this by letting her go on and off disability didn't help. That's why it drives me nuts when she says she deserves more social security, despite lackng her contributing to it for about a decade, cumulatively. Maybe more. She'd rather die than go into assisted living.

The dementia is hard to quantify. She recently found out her thyroid had shut down, and got on medication. She's more lucid than I've heard her in over 5 years.

I called again tonight, and her voicemal was full, again. I should call during the day. It's been over three weeks now since I talked to her. I'll give it a few more days, then send someone close to check on her.

My mom hadn't seen her then surviving brother since 1983. I last saw my uncle in 1979. Her family is in Michigan. We are in California. About 8 years ago when my mom told me he was sick, and said it wouod be nice to go "home" (she's from an ethnic community), I offered to pay for her ticket, and even to go with her. The excuses were always her menagerie (horde) f dogs, geese, chickens, and a poor rabbit who languished in a small, cage. Oh, and the feral cats she adopted.

Though she got validation from her brother, over 60 years later, telling him about the sexual abuse by their dad, she never got to see him before he passed. I kept asking my mom for about 3 years that I would pay for her ticket. She'll never return. I suppose I may at some point.

Similarly, despite being only 130 miles away... She never stayed here for more than two days, when she could drive to "The Big City." uBPDx ("who hated my guts" has been gone coming up on two years. My mom's animals keep her planted. I so wish she couod spend time with the grandchildren she pressured me to have for years. I repeatedly asked her to come stay with us for a week. Always the excuse of her animals. I actually get it, and understand how she thinks, but it's still frustrating...

[unicorn2014]

I wish I hadn't chosen a mate a lot like my mom "she hated my guts" I wish my mom were young enough to drive the 2.5 hrs to see the grandchildren she begged me to have for years, even trying to get me to adopt as a single parent as she did. I wish she wouldn't make waifish comments when she does see them,."I'm surprised they remember me." If wishes were fishes... .how does that go? 

Hi Turkish, powerful share. I appreciate the description of the waifish comments. I still need to pick up my borrowed copy of surviving the borderline parent and keep reading.

I hear you about wishing you had chosen a different mate.

Today my D15 was totally espousing my ex's values, wanting to open up a medical marijuana business, wanting me to approve of her stoner friend, and I found myself thinking I wish I had not chosen her father.

But that's neither here nor there in terms of your post.

Your mom definitely sounds low functioning.

You definitely sound like you care about your mom.



I use the serenity prayer at times like these, "the people I can not change, the courage to change the one I can, the wisdom to know that one is me."

Happy belated birthday

[HappyChappy]

Happy Birthday Turkish. The cake's in the post.

[HappyChappy]

woops.

[Turkish]

Still waiting for the cake, HC! Must be hung up in the post somewhere... .

4th day, no answer. Called twice each night except for the day before yesterday. I'll keep trying for 4-5 more days, then send my buddy who lives close to check on her. She's in the woods back at the end of a dirt road. Voice mail has been full .it's a small town. I don't get why she doesn't go to the phone company office to get help with not figuring out how to dial LD. She doesn't work; it's not like she's busy...

I joked with her a while back that if she dropped dead, the Chihuahuas would get hungry and comsume her. Once they taste human flesh, they can never be trusted. Despite she never getting my twisted sense of humor, even she laughed at that one. The sad thing is that someday it may come true.

[Turkish]

Small county.

My buddy ran into my mom today, who told him that she had no phone and no money... The phone service is still on, so she probably lost it in her hoard. I bought her a Trac phone (disposable) years ago, but she lost it in her hoard within a week, not having taken it out of the package.

I don't have plans on traveling up there (I'm by the coast, they are in the footflhills/mountains,.2.5 hrs away) until Christmas week. I suppose I should drive up there before then, but I don't want to.

[Turkish]

My brother from another mother texted me. He and his wife ran into my mom at the local general store. He didn't say that they were on a mission to do a weofare check... He asked where she'd been, and she said "the same place I've been for the past 5 years" she's lived there for 27. She said she was worried about me since she hadn't heard from me. He said I had been calling, then she said she had no money to fix her phone. She gets like $13 or 1400/mo in social security, and the mortgage has been paid off for over a decade.

She had a stack of food in her arms. My buddy offered to pay for it, but the people at the store said it was taken care of. Gotta love small towns. She asked my friend, "remind me of my granddailughter's name again?" I asked him if she was being sarcastic. He didn't think so.

As she got into the truck, she was having trouble closing the door. He pointed out that her foot was stuck there. Then she drove off.

I hadn't planned on going up there until Christmas week, but I think I need to. I have the kids this weekend, so it would be the next. About 7 years ago, I hinted at taking things over, and she challenged me to take her to court to decpare her mentally incompetent. Now I think I could "win." A Phyrric Victory by any estimation. Now, however, I have S5 and D3, my primary family. My mom is 130 miles away in another county. I work full time, and both kids are in school... I may have some "play" in the county, but I haven't lived there for 26 years. I couldn't do court.

So now I'm split between doing the minimum, or letting her live out her dream of "dying on the hill" wglhich would be horrible given winter is coming, she lives at the snow line, and doesn't have heat.

I'll gird my loins and use all of the validation tools in my disposal when I see her in two weeks. I'm not a fan of her living with me, even if I can convince her, but I'll try. Sometimes that's all that we can do. The alternative is canniblism by Chihuhua, and that's where she's heading. I'm thankful for my BFAM for keeping an eye on things, but as an only child, the responsibility rests upon me. "The son becomes the father."