The need to grieve

[Our abuse recovery guide]

Reading this subheading in the book surviving a borderline parent makes me angry. My dad knows my mom has issues but isn't doing anything about them.

-

My brother is hosting thanksgiving again this year. He hosted it last year. Prior to that my parents hosted. My brother called me this weekend to ask me what time we wanted to come over since we had to come the farthest on public transit. He alluded to the fact that my mom didn't care about that,  but he was going to have it early anyway.

-

Since I've started reading this book and writing on this board, my moms selfishness really sunk in. I think I had always blamed myself for her behavior but this latest reminder really got to me. To make matters harder my daughter likes her grandmother and doesn't understand why I get uptight whenever I talk to my mom. I tell my daughter that we each have our own r/s with my mom and mine is hard for me. My daughter always points out the good in people unless they do something really bad like steal.

-

I think if this book was not a library book I might be tempted to tear it in half but I won't be doing thAt. 

[unicorn2014]

Reading this subheading in the book surviving a borderline parent makes me angry. My dad knows my mom has issues but isn't doing anything about them.

-

My brother is hosting thanksgiving again this year. He hosted it last year. Prior to that my parents hosted. My brother called me this weekend to ask me what time we wanted to come over since we had to come the farthest on public transit. He alluded to the fact that my mom didn't care about that,  but he was going to have it early anyway.

-

Since I've started reading this book and writing on this board, my moms selfishness really sunk in. I think I had always blamed myself for her behavior but this latest reminder really got to me. To make matters harder my daughter likes her grandmother and doesn't understand why I get uptight whenever I talk to my mom. I tell my daughter that we each have our own r/s with my mom and mine is hard for me. My daughter always points out the good in people unless they do something really bad like steal.

-

I think if this book was not a library book I might be tempted to tear it in half but I won't be doing thAt. 

[unicorn2014]

I should also add I'm definitely familiar with projective identification, a former therapist used to tell me my mom would project her guilty feelings onto me.

-

Reading this book is both frustrating and liberating .

[Kwamina]

I think if this book was not a library book I might be tempted to tear it in half but I won't be doing thAt.  

So is the book still in one piece?

I should also add I'm definitely familiar with projective identification, a former therapist used to tell me my mom would project her guilty feelings onto me.

Have you been able to find ways to deflect your mother's negative projections and separate the real you from the projected version of you? Has reading this book perhaps given you new insights or tools to help you with this?

Reading this book is both frustrating and liberating .

I had a similar experience when reading about BPD parents. It validated my experiences yet at the same time was also very hard.

What aspects in particular do you find frustrating? And in what ways has reading this book been liberating for you?

[Sunfl0wer]

Hi  Unicorn,

I realize you are working through a book that I am not familiar with.

However, I am familiar with grief in myself.

Sometimes I have had a hard time allowing myself to grieve... .as it has sometimes been hard for me to focus on the fact that it is ok and valid for me to take care of myself... .including allowing myself to grieve.

Sometimes I have had an easier time putting my focus elsewhere... .Such as feeling like it is my role to help others with their issues. 

(The irony of this post!  )

Anyway, I was wondering if you sometimes find it harder to be nurturing to yourself... .than it is to extend nurturing to another?

[unicorn2014]

The book is still intact.

---

I saw my mother yesterday and I had to leave her garage, which is where I encountered her. I felt trapped by her. She wanted to tell me a story I didn't want to hear about her neighbors, whom she is in a war with. She was sharing her paranoid ideation and I didn't want to hear it. My dad tried to make me stay but I left anyway.

---

Each time I see my parents I learn a little bit more about what I lived through. I've been living with PTSD for 8 years because of it. I can't talk about my PTSD with my family or my extended family because I'm the only one who has it. I have a brother with a disability and all my family's  resources went to meeting his needs. My parents are very self centered people.

... .

[Seeking_Peace]

Reading this subheading in the book surviving a borderline parent makes me angry. My dad knows my mom has issues but isn't doing anything about them.

Your dad might be afraid of your mom, in denial about your mom, or believing lies that your mom feeds him about you. That was all my experience, for what it's worth. But every so often, my dad has ways of letting me know that he knows. It's a gut instinct I sense when he's able to send an email by himself, or do a little something nice here and there without her knowing. But I came to terms long ago that he would never save me. I think his allegiance is to her first, not to his children. But perhaps it's due to fear. Anyway it's healthy that you feel angry. Feel it. You have a right to feel angry. Don't let anyone invalidate that.

May I ask what age you are, Unicorn?

My brother is hosting thanksgiving again this year. He hosted it last year. Prior to that my parents hosted. My brother called me this weekend to ask me what time we wanted to come over since we had to come the farthest on public transit. He alluded to the fact that my mom didn't care about that,  but he was going to have it early anyway.

Holidays are tough for most families, because we fall back into our childhood roles unfortunately (i.e. the movie with Jody Foster, "Home for the Holidays". But holidays I think are especially tough for those of us with NPD or BPD family members. Try not to take it personally that your brother said your mom didn't care that you were traveling the furthest. Remind yourself "This is a sick woman, who only cares about herself." This is a woman who you will never please, and never change. Do what you can to take care of yourself, and whatever time you arrive, you do. If your mother makes a snide comment to push your buttons, just smile, let it roll off, don't let it poison your spirit, and thank your brother for hosting Thanksgiving.

Since I've started reading this book and writing on this board, my moms selfishness really sunk in. I think I had always blamed myself for her behavior but this latest reminder really got to me. To make matters harder my daughter likes her grandmother and doesn't understand why I get uptight whenever I talk to my mom. I tell my daughter that we each have our own r/s with my mom and mine is hard for me. My daughter always points out the good in people unless they do something really bad like steal.

I think it's great you're seeing your mother for who she is. Her behavior has nothing to do with you. She's a grown adult and should show emotional control over how she treats you. But she is too sick and too self-absorbed to see how she treats you effects you. Or maybe she does see how it effects you and does not care, because it's all about HER and HER feelings anyway. I allowed myself to be brainwashed that her behavior was my fault, too, and I am currently trying to fight those old messages. No one is EVER at fault for someone else's behavior! Wow I can't believe I just typed that. Where did that come from, .

I am sorry it brings you pain that your daughter likes her grandmother and doesn't understand why you get uptight whenever you talk to your mother. Perhaps I can help you with this. My mother and my grandmother hated each other. They spewed anger at each other and got the family involved in their anger, even us kids. My mother tried now and then to be okay with my good relationship with grandma, but I know it caused her a lot of anger, hate, and pain. I think one of the reasons I was the scapegoat child, was that I reminded my mother of my grandmother. Anyway, your mother is probably a completely different person toward your daughter. Try to remind yourself of that, and be glad that she's not that sick, that she can act normally with your daughter. Try not to resent your daughter for having a good relationship with her. Know that often times as grandparents, those with BPD soften or act completely differently. I'm not sure what I could suggest you tell your daughter, other than yes people have different experiences and relationships with people. Perhaps you could tell her it's like this: maybe Lisa and Susie are best friends, but she personally does not care to be friends with Lisa, although she gets along really well with Susie. Obviously I don't know how old she is, but you can make the conversation age appropriate without getting into too many details. I never liked when my mother would rage to me about how horribly my grandmother treated her, because that made me feel guilty for having loving feelings toward my grandma. I know you won't do that, though. I just wanted to point it out in the hopes this all helps you see things from a different perspective.

I think if this book was not a library book I might be tempted to tear it in half but I won't be doing thAt. 

Hey if you tear it in half, I'd say good for you, because you're letting your anger out! I am still struggling majorily with letting my anger out.

Hugs 

SP

[Seeking_Peace]

The book is still intact.

---

I saw my mother yesterday and I had to leave her garage, which is where I encountered her. I felt trapped by her. She wanted to tell me a story I didn't want to hear about her neighbors, whom she is in a war with. She was sharing her paranoid ideation and I didn't want to hear it. My dad tried to make me stay but I left anyway.

---

Each time I see my parents I learn a little bit more about what I lived through. I've been living with PTSD for 8 years because of it. I can't talk about my PTSD with my family or my extended family because I'm the only one who has it. I have a brother with a disability and all my family's  resources went to meeting his needs. My parents are very self centered people.

... .

Nothing wrong with leaving her garage. I like you often feel trapped by my uBPDm and uNPDf. You have every right not to have to hear a story about her venting to you about the neighbors. Set boundaries. Walk away. Tell her you have to use the bathroom or get a drink of water if you need to make an excuse. Just do what you have to do to take care of yourself. I shudder at all the times I let my parents use me as a raging sounding board. I used to sit there and pick my nails and try to play a song in my head or wish the phone would ring, as I smiled, listened, and told them what I knew they wanted to hear. It was torture. I wish someone had told me I didn't have to stay. That I could leave my own bedroom and walk away form them.

Do not talk about your PTSD with anyone in your family. I made that mistake about my depression and anxiety and since then I've been labeled as the crazy one; the sick one. Keep your PTSD between yourself, and your therapist and trusting people in your support system.

My parents are also extremely self-centered people. I think it's the nature of their personal disorder. We will never be good enough to change them. Nothing and no one can ever change them, but them. Once you accept that, you will find peace. You'll no longer expect them to act differently, or be crushed when they act the same ways. We must let go of the wish and desire to change them, and the thought that if only we acted the exact perfect way they want us to, they will change. That's not going to happen. Ever. I found freedom in letting that go.

Many times siblings and other family members have completely different experiences with these sick people, so they think we're liars or crazy. They can't even fathom that these people act like they are a completely different person when they are not around. It's scary to really process, isn't it? I told my therapist that my sister and I had completely different childhoods. He got it. Most don't get it, unless they really have a good understanding of BPD and NPD.

This sh*t is not your fault.

[Eyeamme]

Seeking Peace,

I am a mom of an adult uBPD daughter. You just described her. I am so sorry for having to deal with that. I hate that for you.

[unicorn2014]

I am 40. My daughter is 15. My dad is the one who makes snide remarks. My dad knows his relationship with my mom has problems so that is progress. My daughter is a very loving person and likes to see the good in everyone. She is very forgiving. I am not. That is why she doesn't understand my reactions to my mom.

-

I left the garage and went outside and waited for my dad. We were going to lunch together. He was 15 minutes late.

--

It wasn't us being late to thanksgiving  my mom was complaining about, it was us eating early so my d and I could go home at a decent hour.

---

I will have to look and see where I am in the book now. Thank you for replying!

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi Unicorn,

Reading this book is both frustrating and liberating .

I agree with you and also with Kwamina's point:

I had a similar experience when reading about BPD parents. It validated my experiences yet at the same time was also very hard.

The book you are talking about was the first one I read about BPD. In fact, I don't think I've read it through all the way because it was too much for me to digest at once when I first began reading about BPD. I pick it up off and on, and that has proven very helpful, for as I progress through my journey to healing, I find I can understand those things which I couldn't at first. Each bit of learning and growth helps me to be able to go back, re-read, and then the  comes on! Oh, I really get it now! At first though I may have only read a paragraph or two at a time because of how hard it was. Don't forget: it's a process.

Take the chapter about grieving that you are referring to. It hurt so profoundly when I began reading that chapter. To be faced with that type of grief from all those years of hurt, yet there was validation too. For the first time I knew that others had also gone through similar experiences.

Since my dad passed away the end of August, I've been on a different kind of grieving journey. It's more full for me, this grief, because it encompasses not only the loss of my dad but my childhood as well, and my uBPDm intrudes regularly in my thoughts, even though she died 3 years ago. The grief of having lost both parents now, and facing the grief of my lost childhood, well, it is a lot of grief at once that has come rolling over me. So I get it when you are overwhelmed, angry, yet sad too.

I think the best thing of all is that you are feeling!  Keep it up and be kind to yourself as you vacillate from one side to the other. It really is okay. 

Wools

[Seeking_Peace]

Seeking Peace,

I am a mom of an adult uBPD daughter. You just described her. I am so sorry for having to deal with that. I hate that for you.

Thank you for your empathy, Eyeamme. And I am sorry you have to experience an uBPD child.

It's been a roller-coaster of a journey but I try to be grateful for the other good things I have in life. I just want to heal and find some peace, that's all. Thank you again. I'm glad my writing my experience may have been helpful to validate your own experience.

[Seeking_Peace]

I am 40. My daughter is 15. My dad is the one who makes snide remarks. My dad knows his relationship with my mom has problems so that is progress. My daughter is a very loving person and likes to see the good in everyone. She is very forgiving. I am not. That is why she doesn't understand my reactions to my mom.

-

I left the garage and went outside and waited for my dad. We were going to lunch together. He was 15 minutes late.

--

It wasn't us being late to thanksgiving  my mom was complaining about, it was us eating early so my d and I could go home at a decent hour.

---

I will have to look and see where I am in the book now. Thank you for replying!

I think your dad's snide remarks sounds like a defense mechanism. Easier said than done, but do try to just brush them off and tell yourself he's like a baby seeking attention. I can't comment about your dad's being late. For all you know, he got stuck in traffic or your mother was ranting at him about your having lunch together and made him late on purpose and he was too embarrassed to say it.

Reread the sentence about your mom complaining. Doesn't she sound a like a child who is going to have a temper tantrum if she doesn't get her way? It's not personal. She can only think of me, me, me, me, and me.

Keep reading that book! :-)

[Seeking_Peace]

I think the best thing of all is that you are feeling!  Keep it up and be kind to yourself as you vacillate from one side to the other. It really is okay. 

I agree with what Wools said. Personally, I wish I could feel and stop numbing out to feel safe. Be grateful you can feel. Two weeks ago with the help of my therapist, I did start to feel anger but it was not easy. It was always very scary whenever I tried to feel my feelings or express my feelings as a child. I was never allowed to. And my mother's feelings vacillated between rage/tension/anger or manic hyperness.

[unicorn2014]

My dad was 15 min late to meeting me outside. I was on time, I arranged my schedule to be at his house when he told me to. He was inside.

/

/

I will tell you where I'm at in the book now.

/

My dad doesn't make snide remarks to me. It's how he's been since high school.

[unicorn2014]

Here is the excerpt

"Weak boundaries and projective identification

When you're enmeshed with someone else, your boundaries aren't clearly defined, its hard to judge where your obligations and responsibilities end and your parent's begin. A parent may unconsciously project her guilty feelings onto her child; in order to avoid feeling guilty, which is common in BPD, it's particularly easy for a child to identify with the projection and feel guilty for the parent. This is called projective identification, and here's an example of how it works: A woman is feeling especially short-tempered and impatient with her young child one day. When the child says, "I'm hungry, can I have lunch now?" the woman loses her cool and screams, "I can't believe how incredibly selfish you are. Can't you see that it's not lunchtime yet?" The woman is projecting; what she really is conveying indirectly is, "I'm fried. I don't feel like I can handle one more thing, like making lunch, right now. But I must be selfish to feel that way, and I can't accept my own emotions, so I'm going to say they're coming from you, that it's your fault." The child, who believes what Mom tells her and who is trying to understand why she got yelled at for something as logical as requesting food when she was hungry, assumes that a) she's responsible for her mother's reaction; and b) she's selfish to boot. She incorporates that knowledge and toxic guilt accumulates."

Roth, Kimberlee. 2003. Surviving a Borderline Parent

A former therapist told me my mother projects her guilt. Reading this even now makes me feel emotional. Seeing my mother on Thursday brought those feelings up. For me this is particularly hard as a romantic r/s with a wBPD brought me to this website, and now I'm seeing my mother also has  traits.

My father on the other hand, is another story.