Is idolization of them typical? Self doubt? Thats what nearly destroyed me

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I got involved with a woman that I believed had severe narc/BPD tendencies, but my real question was, during my involvement with her I began to doubt myself soo badly. She worked as a medical nurse on helicopters (I worked fire/ems, thats how we met) I quit that job to go to a better paying, but its very slow paced/in an office. She would tell me ALL the time about 'oh big rescue today' 'got to fly over the mtns today!' etc etc and it ate at me. 

I was already doubting my move somewhat, but her constant words of her bragging, mixed with her often downplaying my stores 'well thats boring let me tell you about my day'.  Not sure why it happened but I started hating myself, meanwhile I began this idolization of her that she was SO COOL.  Part of the problem was this is objectively true that she has to be good to be on the helicopter, and this tore me apart that I was some nobody yet she got to rescue/save all these people.

Is this typical?  I really want some encouragement or sympathetic stories... .thanks.

[Sword]

I got involved with a woman that I believed had severe narc/BPD tendencies, but my real question was, during my involvement with her I began to doubt myself soo badly. She worked as a medical nurse on helicopters (I worked fire/ems, thats how we met) I quit that job to go to a better paying, but its very slow paced/in an office. She would tell me ALL the time about 'oh big rescue today' 'got to fly over the mtns today!' etc etc and it ate at me. 

I was already doubting my move somewhat, but her constant words of her bragging, mixed with her often downplaying my stores 'well thats boring let me tell you about my day'.  Not sure why it happened but I started hating myself, meanwhile I began this idolization of her that she was SO COOL.  Part of the problem was this is objectively true that she has to be good to be on the helicopter, and this tore me apart that I was some nobody yet she got to rescue/save all these people.

Is this typical?  I really want some encouragement or sympathetic stories... .thanks.

[eeks]

Hi Sword,

I don't know whether the exact details of your story are "typical", but many people do report an impact on their self-esteem and self-image from being involved with a pwBPD.  My relationship with a pwBPD was relatively brief, but I would say that I internalized his criticisms of me, and did not realize the extent to which that had happened until I wasn't communicating with him anymore (even text messages when we did not see each other in person could have this effect). 

In this case, I wonder if there are other themes going on?  She had a "cool" job, she thought yours was "boring"... .I personally would want to be with a partner who felt positive and respectful enough towards me to listen to my stories and let me be the one to decide what context to put them in.  If I find my job boring, but I stay out of present necessity, then I would expect that a mature partner would keep the possibility of changes in mind in the discussion, and yet still empathize.  If I liked my job and found it exciting, I would want him to listen to my stories with interest and curiosity.  And I'd want to do the same for him.  I'd want to understand when he enjoyed something that happened... .when it gives him a genuine sense of accomplishment or fulfillment... .what is it about it that does that for him?  And when he doesn't enjoy something, what about his values is that not reflecting, for example?  I like to know people in that way, whether they are friends, lovers, family, doesn't matter.

I also wonder (even though it wasn't necessary for her to treat you that way over it) if this is telling you something about yourself, and what's meaningful to you?  You said you feel like "some nobody"... .is it possible that that's because you haven't figured out what's important to you, your true goals and values, and began working towards them?  (No blame there, a lot of people don't do that, many just fall into necessity with respect to career for one reason or another.  I'm still working on this stuff.)

eeks

[fromheeltoheal]

Hey Sword-

BPD is a shame-based disorder, and as we know borderlines live on the perpetual fence between abandonment and engulfment.  So any success of yours would make her feel 'less than', she'd feel ashamed, that feels bad, so she'd project that on you, you're the one slacking, she's awesome; it has to be that way to keep the shame at bay.  Also, one way to manage the opposing fears of abandonment and engulfment is to be in control in the relationship, call all the shots, that way you won't leave and she can regulate how emotionally close you two are, and continuously beating you down with her sht will make you doubt yourself and easier to control, sounds like it worked, although I don't know if she was successful at taking full control.  Standard borderline there, certainly true in my case, apply as needed.

And you have an identity in your career, men in general are encouraged to make what they do for a living a large part of who they are, their identity, in our culture, an offshoot of the 'provide and protect' role that men are supposed to fill.  A good thing really, the man and society both benefit, but if you're not empowered in your career it can make you feel less of a man.  There must have been a real rush in showing up to an accident scene or fire and fulfilling the role of savior, a modern-day hero, and going from that to a desk job, even though it's more money, probably leaves your needs for significance, variety, contribution and connection unmet or met at a much lower level.  Best to remove disempowering people from your life first, like your ex, which sounds like a done deal, and then make career decisions.  More money is good, and if you don't jump out of bed in the morning and run to work because you love it so much, you have an opportunity to change the job, change your beliefs about the job and your career, or change jobs; no sense spending 40 hours a week doing something we're not enthusiastic about, kind of a waste of life, but enthusiasm isn't something we get, it's something we do.

[Sword]

How do I know I am not the one with BPD?  Esp your line 'as we know borderlines live on the perpetual fence between abandonment and engulfment'

I realize I have huge abandonment problems.

Also any tips from separating what might be a legitimate job interest of mine, vs some wanting to merge with her sort of fantasy?

[Thread]

Worth the read:

www.narcissisticbehavior.net/the-effects-of-gaslighting-in-narcissistic-victim-syndrome/

[fromheeltoheal]

How do I know I am not the one with BPD?  Esp your line 'as we know borderlines live on the perpetual fence between abandonment and engulfment'

Well, one clue is you're here.  Someone with the disorder or significant traits of it wouldn't get deeply enough into introspection to explore what's going on with them, own their part in relationships and start to analyze their behaviors, it could open a floodgate of shame and the defense mechanisms would kick in, the same thing a borderline does in relationships, like everything is everyone else's fault, it has to be for a borderline to live with themselves.  You've been around since September and posted over 100 times Sword, which is the good news.

The other piece is we can adopt some of the behaviors of the disorder, 'fleas' they're called, when we're in a relationship with a borderline, as tools to cope in the relationship, kind of a 'hey, it works for them, why don't I try it', but maybe not consciously, we just start doing it, but that will go away with time and distance from the relationship.

And then, all humans fear abandonment on some level, we're social animals and have evolved to need each other, the lone wolves don't fair as well.  And really, part of it is all of us trying to get back to that bond we felt was perfect with our mother and to a lesser extent our father when we were young.  Healthy that, and the traits of the disorder are on a continuum, a spectrum, all of us exhibiting some of them some of the time in differing degrees.  But someone with the disorder focuses on abandonment and the fear of it all the time, not consciously necessarily, but it's the center of their lives because they never detached from their mother and created a 'self' of their own, so a borderline can feel like they literally don't exist without an attachment to someone and constantly fear losing it.  Is that true to that extreme with you Sword?

I realize I have huge abandonment problems.

And that realization could be the good news, the result of introspection and what you may one day consider the gift of the relationship because it caused you to look.  There's a whole lot of information in the world about abandonment, attachment styles, separation anxiety, self esteem issues, on and on, and if you're not getting far enough on your own we're here, and then there's professional help locally for you if you need it.  Life is a grand adventure, and who knows where it will lead next!

Also any tips from separating what might be a legitimate job interest of mine, vs some wanting to merge with her sort of fantasy?

I'm not really clear on what you mean by merging with her sort of fantasy, but the best thing you can do is get time and distance from her so you get your feet back on the ground, focus on you and your bright future, and just watch her fade in the rear view mirror until she doesn't exist in your life anymore.  Then you can do some career planning, by looking inside to find your true desires and passions, and act from there, a centered, balanced, holistic place.

[Sword]

Thanks guys, read that gaslight thing, and awesome post heeltoheal.

The gaslighting definitely seems real, I write in a journal about my daily activities, and though my memory might be biased, at the time I ALWAYS write what happened factually, even if it doesnt color me good.  I bring this up, because I would write harmful things my ex said to me, and a month later I would bring it up, and she'd say things like 'I NEVER said that' or 'oh, no you didnt hear me right'.

I got involved with a BPD girl about 4-5 years ago and posted some here, the issues are really similar - they keep their distance from me but lure me in with little baits and occasional sex.  The biggest them is I am a writer and BOTH of them read my book, which was a huge deal for me, and now somewhat blinds me from their negatives.

What I meant by merge with her, is like a literal wanting to be her, or be with her.  This is an important topic to me becasue I was in rescue for years, and always had an interest in air evac, I stopped with my current office job, but her in the picture brings this back front and center since thats what she does.  I can say quiet honestly if she was in a more 'boring' job I could move on from her so much easier, but its her job - and my dream connected to it - that is killing me.

[fromheeltoheal]

I got involved with a BPD girl about 4-5 years ago and posted some here, the issues are really similar - they keep their distance from me but lure me in with little baits and occasional sex.  The biggest them is I am a writer and BOTH of them read my book, which was a huge deal for me, and now somewhat blinds me from their negatives.

Now there's something to look at; what is it with you and borderlines?  :)id you notice some of the traits of the new gal that echoed the old one, and did you forge ahead anyway despite them?  One thing that helps me to shift my focus is to realize that a psychologically healthy person, when exposed to some borderline traits, would identify them as unacceptable right away and walk away.  Me?  I shifted into high gear and got very busy trying to 'fix' everything, along with the assumption that I had broken things, which played right into the borderline playbook; it takes two to tango, and learning what my dance steps were is where all the growth is.

What I meant by merge with her, is like a literal wanting to be her, or be with her.  This is an important topic to me becasue I was in rescue for years, and always had an interest in air evac, I stopped with my current office job, but her in the picture brings this back front and center since thats what she does.  I can say quiet honestly if she was in a more 'boring' job I could move on from her so much easier, but its her job - and my dream connected to it - that is killing me.

Is it really literally killing you Sword?  You've seen dying people, and I'd say you're far from that, you're just having painful emotional experiences right now, which you can use as motivation to dig, which you are, and good for you, and as you continue on that journey a better version of you will emerge, one that can build a bright future you're excited about.

And there's that identity thing: she has a job you covet, along with the identity, and that's putting her on a pedestal in your head.  If you can disconnect the two, by getting time and distance from her, you can start to look at and separate her, the job, and your career goals, and look at all of them more objectively.  My ex was good in crisis situations too, only because she's had a lifetime of living in and dealing with her own personal chaos, it's what she knows and were she feels comfortable; while some people build houses of cards she's the one who comes along and kicks them down, because it feels better and she feels attached to someone who's also in pain.  No thanks, I'll leave her to her crises in favor of some peace, serenity and stability.  

[Thread]

Sword and fromheeltoheal,

Thanks for asking and answering that question... .My undiagnosed mother and sister refuse to believe my h Bpd is borderline, blaming his behavior on me. Blaming me and labeling me as the Bpd. I have been in therapy - of my own free will for anxiety since I was 17 - now 30.

Now reading about Bpd I have come to find my mother and sister are and didn't realize it until my husband was diagnosed with it. My sisters therapist would tell her she was having borderline traits and this is when she started calling me borderline (projection) but with the gas lighting I am always asking is it me, am I the crazy one? But then my sister will raise hell on me about the weirdest stuff and I have to step back and say no, you're normal and have anxiety from what has surrounded me.

When I went to college I had to run away from home because my mother lost it yelling at me nightly about how I think I'm too good, why did I deserve to go to college... .This is just one incident, my sister if we were on the telephone (before cell phones) she would pick up the other phone and scream into it until you hung up with whomever you were speaking to... .So that she could use the phone... .Again just one out of many incidents, the funny thing is my mother and sister gang up on me a lot... .And my husband and his diagnosed Bpd mother also share a unique bond.

Is the bond between Bpd family members a thing... .Because my sister can be the cruelest and my mom will always side with her. Make excuses, and if I do something I'm a horrible person, I'm Bpd, I'm bipolar, I'm a sex addict - no joke those all have been labels... .None of them are true in any sense. I'm now realizing I grew up in a very toxic environment, but am lucky to have my dad always on my side and the voice of reason, but only with me, you can't win with them and it's not even worth the battle.

[fromheeltoheal]

Is the bond between Bpd family members a thing... .Because my sister can be the cruelest and my mom will always side with her. Make excuses, and if I do something I'm a horrible person, I'm Bpd, I'm bipolar, I'm a sex addict - no joke those all have been labels... .None of them are true in any sense. I'm now realizing I grew up in a very toxic environment, but am lucky to have my dad always on my side and the voice of reason, but only with me, you can't win with them and it's not even worth the battle.

Hey Hanging-

While BPD is not hereditary, it's a personality disorder not an organic mental illness, it's common for offsprings of borderlines to be borderline themselves.  It makes sense really; if two people use the same defense mechanisms they will probably get along, and using them together against what they see as a common foe would strengthen each one's.

With a borderline mother, sister and husband, you've been immersed, good thing you see your father as the voice of reason.  You're still young at 30, and it might be best to get some distance from all of that for a while, so you can see how you really feel about yourself, life and the world, looking internally for answers and devoid of those externally influences.  Take care of you!

[Sword]

Now there's something to look at; what is it with you and borderlines?  :)id you notice some of the traits of the new gal that echoed the old one, and did you forge ahead anyway despite them?  One thing that helps me to shift my focus is to realize that a psychologically healthy person, when exposed to some borderline traits, would identify them as unacceptable right away and walk away.  Me?  I shifted into high gear and got very busy trying to 'fix' everything, along with the assumption that I had broken things, which played right into the borderline playbook; it takes two to tango, and learning what my dance steps were is where all the growth is.

I recognized some similarities for sure, at first it was just the insane rapid connection, but she hid a lot of it initially, and I kept my own distance but the thing that was most similar was their push/pull of very occasional talk/calls to make sure I wasnt jumping ship, all while the promise of 'someday' dangled in front of me.  I guess with both I am/was addicted to hope.

Definitly a 'fix it' type of thing, 'oh she isnt calling, what can I do to fix it?  Do I need to show more attention?  Oh she has this problem let me drop everything to help her' over and over. 

Idk if I mentioned that she is married, I didn't find out till about 9 months later, and she made me seem like it was MY problem 'what could I have said?  You'd judge me just like you are doing now.'

I have a really hard time walking away from people too, like 'oh she did good for me, I just need to toughen up' 'oh she read my book, how many girls would do that?'.

[Thread]

Fromheeltoheal you have some really good advice here on this post!

Sword, do you find you as a writer are drawn to the drama or the ups and downs of the Bpd? I ask this only because I am also an artist and find that maybe two more of my exes were probably borderline. Also I find the good times are good and I shine and raise to more self improvements, but the dysregulation time of my H send me into anxiety and depression mode which somehow fuel my artistic mind to create... .Sick huh? Like I'm addicted to the ups and downs of this relationship and the past possible borderline ones including the way my mother and sister made me feel when they dysregulated on me. - just something to think about

My therapist also thinks there is something in me attracting individuals with this disorder 1. My artistic nature - I enjoy messy things and people, 2. My, now aware of it, growing up around people with borderline qualities (undiagnosed) and 3. My insecurities and semi codependent nature, also poor boundaries

The last ones are the ones I need to work on, in hopes of creating a somewhat manageable situation with my Bpd husband.

Do you have a therapist? It may help to see what the qualities are in you that may be attracting or attracted to Bpd type personalities. Definitely look for a therapist with Bpd training... .My h Bpd and I have gone to therapist not trained with Bpd and it's been not such a good experience.

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Most girls if they are interested in you would read your book  

I'm an artist so if someone I liked also dabbled in art in any form i would be all about viewing, reading, experiencing it to discover more about this person I was interested in - you can find more girls to read and I'm sure love your book!

[Sword]

Thanks, I guess I am not that experienced dating really, so when I let a few girls close to my heart, I feel in too deep with them and let the bad rampage. 

Hard to believe I feel in with someone like this twice.  It tore me up so bad, I really obsessed over it, filled a notebook with rants in about 4 months.  I just liked her so much despite her being way older and no future, mixed with her bringing me down... .it was not pretty.

[Thread]

I think as a writer and for m as an artist we tend to feel a bit more strongly than the average joe.

I often felt torn in half after breakups and can honestly say I loved each person as a sort of muse. They fueled something in me that made me create and live life and feel alive in a sense. But my h Bpd definitely has had way more real love that we have shared. Sacrifice and time. Arguments and forgivenesses... .If that's even a true thing. According to my therapist borderlines don't love authentically they love to get love back not unconditionally.

I believe you can find many more loves and girls to read your book/s  

[Sword]

What I am worried about is your last line, I worry that I 'love people' only so THEY LOVE ME BACK.

Also, any advice as to what I should do in regards to career choice, as stated a bit, she worked medical helicopter evac nurse, meaning on big emergencies, theyd fly in 'to save the day' (which was heavily narcisstic, and made me feel really low with my 'boring' office job), so while I was invovled with her I fantasized about this endlessly.  Now before you dismiss that as just her, know that before I ever met her I was long interested in helicopters and rescue, and worked as a firefighter/emt for a while before I got this office job.

So... .is the resurgance of the 'dream' so to say a result of her being in my life and her talking it up, or how much is a legit interest since I loosely always had it?  (And should chase it?)

[fromheeltoheal]

What I am worried about is your last line, I worry that I 'love people' only so THEY LOVE ME BACK.

Is that really true Sword?  Have you ever loved someone who doesn't love you back, but you kept on loving them anyway?  Would you agree that we know when we love someone, it's a feeling we have towards them, and there's nothing we can do change that, it just is?  If so, is that something you're doing to get a response from someone, a conscious thought, or is it just there?

Also, any advice as to what I should do in regards to career choice, as stated a bit, she worked medical helicopter evac nurse, meaning on big emergencies, theyd fly in 'to save the day' (which was heavily narcisstic, and made me feel really low with my 'boring' office job), so while I was invovled with her I fantasized about this endlessly.  Now before you dismiss that as just her, know that before I ever met her I was long interested in helicopters and rescue, and worked as a firefighter/emt for a while before I got this office job.

So... .is the resurgance of the 'dream' so to say a result of her being in my life and her talking it up, or how much is a legit interest since I loosely always had it?  (And should chase it?)

Personally I find the thought of a borderline flying around 'saving' people pretty scary, but some are high functioning, and as mentioned earlier, who we are in our career is a large part of who we are, how we define ourselves, especially for men in our culture and especially for folks who don't have a stable sense of self of their own, like borderlines; 'saving the day' meant she mattered, which was a place she had trouble getting to on her own.

So... .is the resurgance of the 'dream' so to say a result of her being in my life and her talking it up, or how much is a legit interest since I loosely always had it?  (And should chase it?)

Hard to say, only you can answer that, but best to get some time and distance from her and get your feet on the ground again, and then make career decisions from an internal place of stillness, making sure they are your decisions coming out of your internal drive, and not colored by a need for external validation or acceptance.

[Thread]

Fromhealtoheel just answered that the best way possible! But I think you need to take some quiet time and listen to you more. To me it sounds like doing that sort of career has been inside of you even before you saw someone actually living it.

I have always played in the kitchen since 4 years old. In high school my best friends mom made a comment "you want to be a cook?" In a really negative way. So my next trimester I took all advanced placement classes and applied to private colleges to prove I could be something more. Guess what now 15 years later, I am a chef, own my own business and get to be an artist in a functional profiting way! Because that's what I always knew I loved to do.

If I had gone to culinary school like I wanted to I would probably be in this sort of position much faster and wouldn't have had to work 2.5 jobs apprenticing under a chef while working other jobs to pay my student loans off from normal college . But I also would have missed out on a lot of soul searching and study abroad where I truly had quiet time and discovered it's okay to be an artist. So all things are learning opportunities and needed in our lives in one way or another even if we can't see it during the hard times.

Take time, soul search a bit and focus on you now. This is an opportunity!