Can they tell reality from fantasy?

[Depression = 72% of members]

So, for those that don't know, I am LC with my pwBPD (Jane).  Late yesterday, I reached out to her (in a moment of weakness) with a simple message saying that I had hoped her day had been well (she had reached out to me over the holiday, so I had chose to do it yesterday).  She replied to me with "nope.  was scared to text you," which I found odd and asked her why.  She replied with that she wasn't sure and then said that she felt we were always arguing but we aren't.  I didn't quite know what that meant, so I asked her to clarify it.  Her reply was "idk.  I'm crazy."  So I tried to sidestep that and asked her to explain what she meant about us arguing but not because I didn't understand what she meant.  She said that she felt like I was always angry with her, at least in her head, and that we have all these fights with me even when we don't, she does on a subconscious level with me (her words). 

Of course, I know that she does that because she's, well, BPD.  But I couldn't tell her that because she was furiously mad at me the other day when I improperly invalidated her by being to clinical about her BPD (she said she was so mad at me because I wasn't there for her to just listen, even though she'll look at me and say something like "is this because I'm BPD?".  She made it clear to me that she pays a therapist and doesn't need me being one for her, so I have slacked off on any type of explanation to avoid her getting mad for that reason again).  So my response to her was that I was sorry she felt that way and asked her if she wanted to communicate to me about what she felt we were fighting about "this time" (not exact words).  She said it was about the holiday and how it would've been and how it has hurt her.  She then followed that immediately with that she knew it had hurt me.  We were supposed to be "together" this holiday season, but because she devalued me in mid-Oct, that became impossible (not to mention she's been living other lies that have came to light, etc etc) that made me being with her impossible.

I attempted to validate, but she went ST after that.  I have neither reached out to her today, nor do I plan to.  My question to you all is though, do they know the difference between a reality argument/disagreement/etc and a perceived one or do they punish you based on something that's completely (perceived) in their minds but fully believe you did/said that to them?  I guess I'm referencing a total disassociation with reality (in her mind, we've had the argument and I've said things that I never have and she can't tell a difference).  Is this a sort of anomaly or is this common with BPDs?

[Lonely_Astro]

So, for those that don't know, I am LC with my pwBPD (Jane).  Late yesterday, I reached out to her (in a moment of weakness) with a simple message saying that I had hoped her day had been well (she had reached out to me over the holiday, so I had chose to do it yesterday).  She replied to me with "nope.  was scared to text you," which I found odd and asked her why.  She replied with that she wasn't sure and then said that she felt we were always arguing but we aren't.  I didn't quite know what that meant, so I asked her to clarify it.  Her reply was "idk.  I'm crazy."  So I tried to sidestep that and asked her to explain what she meant about us arguing but not because I didn't understand what she meant.  She said that she felt like I was always angry with her, at least in her head, and that we have all these fights with me even when we don't, she does on a subconscious level with me (her words). 

Of course, I know that she does that because she's, well, BPD.  But I couldn't tell her that because she was furiously mad at me the other day when I improperly invalidated her by being to clinical about her BPD (she said she was so mad at me because I wasn't there for her to just listen, even though she'll look at me and say something like "is this because I'm BPD?".  She made it clear to me that she pays a therapist and doesn't need me being one for her, so I have slacked off on any type of explanation to avoid her getting mad for that reason again).  So my response to her was that I was sorry she felt that way and asked her if she wanted to communicate to me about what she felt we were fighting about "this time" (not exact words).  She said it was about the holiday and how it would've been and how it has hurt her.  She then followed that immediately with that she knew it had hurt me.  We were supposed to be "together" this holiday season, but because she devalued me in mid-Oct, that became impossible (not to mention she's been living other lies that have came to light, etc etc) that made me being with her impossible.

I attempted to validate, but she went ST after that.  I have neither reached out to her today, nor do I plan to.  My question to you all is though, do they know the difference between a reality argument/disagreement/etc and a perceived one or do they punish you based on something that's completely (perceived) in their minds but fully believe you did/said that to them?  I guess I'm referencing a total disassociation with reality (in her mind, we've had the argument and I've said things that I never have and she can't tell a difference).  Is this a sort of anomaly or is this common with BPDs?

[Joem678]

I'm not sure.  I want to see the responses to your questions.  I have had conversations with pwBPD and I'm left like "what?  When did that happen?" Or plainly "what the heck!".  It leaves me believing like their memories were switched out.  She is easily influenced with ideas from other people too.  I can say that from my interpretation they don't know the difference.  I was once accused of rape by her and she genuinely believed I had. 

[C.Stein]

I'm gonna go with what they perceive to be the truth, at least in my experience.   My ex will believe what she wants to believe in spite of the truth.  She will twist things around in order to avoid responsibility.  She did this mostly by inaccurate recall of events and things that were said.  She also has a selective memory.   For example the excuse she had for the month long deception was she thought I would be angry with her.  She had incorrectly remembered a conversation we had where she was the one who got angry and defensive.  The fact of the matter is she deceived me because she didn't want me to stand in her way of something she wanted to do.  Sad thing is, I almost suggested to her that she do it anyhow.   She put her own superficial needs ahead of my emotional well being and it destroyed me and our relationship.

[steelwork]

I'm new here and only operating on the suspicion that my ex has this personality disorder, but I want to say that this resonates. A lot. For instance, I heard from a mutual friend that he had told her we were out of contact when in fact we'd been talking/chatting/emailing almost daily. Then, when the sh*t hit the fan a month later, he told ME we'd been out of contact--despite a voluminous record of contact.

Similarly, I remember him telling me I'd been push/pulling him. I did not even know what that meant at the time. Now that I've found this site, I see what he meant, but I wasn't at all doing that. I'd always been consistently affectionate towards/interested in him, but he apparently saw it differently. He often told me his ex had BPD, so presumably he got the terminology from researching HER condition. I now see that he must have interpreted that from small delays in responses to his emails, which for him apparently seemed interminably long.

[hashtag_loyal]

Her motivations are based entirely on her perceptions of the exchange. Feelings = facts.

[13YearGoodbye]

do they punish you based on something that's completely (perceived) in their minds but fully believe you did/said that to them?

Welcome to the surreal world of BPD!

My X and I had a fight by eMail one time when I tried to run away. It was glorious to find it years later, and to read the actual written documents that demonstrated that I hadn't written, or even implied any of the things that she was writing that I did.

My X is a falling down drunk, and is dying from alcohol poisoning, but has managed to convince her doctors and family that she is having a bad reaction from a flu shot which makes her unsteady on her feet. And her liver shutting down is not due to drinking 33 ounces of vodka per day, but to mono.