Conflicting theories on being a source of support/acting as therapist

[livednlearned]

I've just received a lot of advice here about setting clear boundaries and leading and having things be really clear. I'm not a game-player generally, but I get that maybe there's a bit of "game" to be played here, like "leave her wanting more" and "pulling, not pushing" kind of stuff.

When people feel uncertain about committing to someone, they don't like to feel smothered or pressured or have expectations placed on them prematurely. That's true whether you're male or female.  

You also have an additional challenge because you're at stage one of the relationship, but because things are long-distance, you have only talk. And it sounds like that talk progressed very quickly to stage four (full-blown commitment, living together), only to be snapped back to stage one.

On top of that, people with BPD are a degree more impulsive and struggle with emotional regulation. So it's best to look at her actions and take your cues from them. Actions suggest you are in the very earliest stages -- she is uncertain.

[MapleBob]

Huh. So I should treat this like a brand-new relationship? That's interesting.

And you're absolutely right: things moved super quickly when we got together. I've been curious for a long time as to what factors exactly lead her to come on so strong in the first place. She's literally said "I was in love with you before we even met that first time, and then that first time cemented it".

For some reason I'm also remembering a phase during the summer where I was pressing for an in-person meeting, because she was talking a lot about how texting/phone is only, like, 30% effective in terms of quality of communication. She was resistant and I couldn't really pry out of her why exactly - I mean, she have me vague excuses, for sure - but she cracked and cried and said "I just can't stand the thought of maybe only seeing you *once*!" ?

[livednlearned]

She is likely intense by nature (most BPD relationships move quickly in the beginning), and being BPD, she will have an unstable sense of self. That is not a secure way to be in the world, and intimate relationships can tax what little sense of security she finds for herself. Not to mention, many of us brought our own intense needs for validation to the relationship and jumped right in head first.

I think her comment about the pain of only seeing you once speaks volumes about this  -- the intense fear of losing the object of her love is preventing her from having this. You can't fix this; you have to know about it.

She is moving through a lot of emotional realities that threaten her very sense of self. It's best to validate these feelings and learn how to communicate. Try to recognize when you are asking her to tend to your needs when she is completely consumed with meeting her own. That's one reason why self care is so important when we're in BPD relationships.

[MapleBob]

She is likely intense by nature (most BPD relationships move quickly in the beginning), and being BPD, she will have an unstable sense of self. That is not a secure way to be in the world, and intimate relationships can tax what little sense of security she finds for herself. Not to mention, many of us brought our own intense needs for validation to the relationship and jumped right in head first.

One of the saddest parts about this for me is that I was in a REALLY good place for me when I met her. I had been dating and enjoying fairly casual, shortish-term relationships and was happy to continue doing that while also keeping in mind that I was looking for something more, eventually. Then she came along and I just really loved her! Like, genuinely. I wasn't coming from a place of needing that much validation from her, but she sure needed it from me! So it felt intense and I probably balked a bit, even though I was really excited to be moving fast with someone that I unexpectedly had real feelings for. I think that's ultimately what triggered her anxiety (and she's said as much): she chased me really really hard, I responded from a place of fairly secure attachment style, and so she got it into her head that I wasn't as into her as she was into me. And so she started to dig for evidence of this (which anyone could find in a relationship if they're being paranoid and insecure enough) and hyper-focused on that, and ignored overwhelming evidence to the contrary that I actually DID like her. Like a lot!

Now I feel like a mess over this half the time. And there's not even that much actually going on!

I think her comment about the pain of only seeing you once speaks volumes about this  -- the intense fear of losing the object of her love is preventing her from having this. You can't fix this; you have to know about it.

She is moving through a lot of emotional realities that threaten her very sense of self. It's best to validate these feelings and learn how to communicate. Try to recognize when you are asking her to tend to your needs when she is completely consumed with meeting her own. That's one reason why self care is so important when we're in BPD relationships.

I'm not sure I'm following you here. I understand the "don't expect too much from her, she has a lot on her plate" part. I can see where I've certainly not gotten that in the past. You think she's scared to lose me, but is scared of doing what it would take to keep me? That her feelings are complicated and conflicted and so she's frightened of it being too hard either way things go? Is that what you're saying? She's invested in limbo because it gives her time to come to some kind of decision: to get over it, or get back into it?

[unicorn2014]

Maple Bob,

I can tell you from my limited experience that it is probably not a good idea to act as your pwBPD therapist. I know when I find myself in that role I end up feeling resentful. My pwBPD doesn't think therapy is useful for him yet a lot of time when he is talking to me I feel like telling him he should talk to a therapist about that. Of course I don't tell him that because that would cause him to dysregulate.

I  also agree that what you are facing is hard, not wanting to talk about the relationship but wanting to be supportive. I can't tell you how many times I've told my pwBPD I don't want to talk about our relationship right now. That finally stopped so I think it worked.

There is a technique in interpersonal effectiveness in DBT called broken record where if somebody is asking you for something you don't want to give them you keep repeating no over and over again. It sounds like that is what is going on in your relationship. Is that correct?

[babyducks]

To livenlearned's point about intense fears.  I'm intensely afraid of heights.  In my head I absolutely understand that the walk way won't collapse underneath me.  You can explain to me that the walk way  over the chasm is stable.   I know you are telling me the truth.  I know engineers tested the walk way.  I am sure that walk way is well built.    And in my heart of hearts I am completely convinced the moment I step foot on that walk way it's going down.

That's how PwBPD feel about relationships.    That same intense and not terribly rational fear of if I really let someone know me either they will hurt me or leave me. 

[livednlearned]

I understand the "don't expect too much from her, she has a lot on her plate" part. I can see where I've certainly not gotten that in the past. You think she's scared to lose me, but is scared of doing what it would take to keep me? That her feelings are complicated and conflicted and so she's frightened of it being too hard either way things go? Is that what you're saying? She's invested in limbo because it gives her time to come to some kind of decision: to get over it, or get back into it?

She likely knows herself well enough to know how terrified she feels about being abandoned. This is a genuine threat to self! If she holds love at a distance, she lessens the chance that she will be devastated by abandonment. While at the same time desperately wanting to love/be loved. While being afraid. While wanting to love.

At the end of the day, you have to be secure enough to know that she is reacting to internal memories and experiences not necessarily connected to you, though likely triggered by feelings she has in relation to you, what you say, what you do. You cannot fix this for her; you can get perspective about what BPD is even when your own feelings are activated. That's why we focus on ourselves, creating a secure base from which to be supportive, practicing communication skills like validation and SET. Learning when to give ourselves a time out to recenter, having boundaries based on our values (which tend to be relatively stable).  

Empathy for BPD is an ever-deepening experience, in my experience. Not just for pwBPD, for everyone, ourselves included. I learn something new all the time. I make mistakes all the time. The more I learn, the more mistakes I make (and learn from), the more empathy I feel, the more skills I develop, the more secure I feel, the better my relationships are.

You are focused on an outcome with her (human nature!). Another option is to focus on you, to experience the relationship as something that transforms you without expecting anything from it.

Not easy, I know.

[MapleBob]

I  also agree that what you are facing is hard, not wanting to talk about the relationship but wanting to be supportive. I can't tell you how many times I've told my pwBPD I don't want to talk about our relationship right now. That finally stopped so I think it worked.

There is a technique in interpersonal effectiveness in DBT called broken record where if somebody is asking you for something you don't want to give them you keep repeating no over and over again. It sounds like that is what is going on in your relationship. Is that correct?

No, not exactly. I would love to talk about the relationship - IF it seemed like that was getting us anywhere. But it dysregulates her, and she has all of the conflicting feelings, and none of it makes any sense, and I love her right through those times and they basically always end up with her saying "this is too much drama, I can't handle this, I don't want to be with you but I also can't just be your friend, this is idiotic to continue with, we should just say goodbye, you should move on and be happy, etc."

That's how PwBPD feel about relationships.    That same intense and not terribly rational fear of if I really let someone know me either they will hurt me or leave me. 

Which is funny, because I've heard from her that a big plus of continuing to have some kind of a relationship with me is, in part, based on the fact that (actual quote) "You see me and hear me and you are really trying to get me and know me. You have seen the ugliest parts of me and been on the receiving end of all of my anger and meanness; the bullying and manipulating; and you’re still here. And you still love me - maybe even more than you did before. The amount of work you are willing to do here shows me how much, and it’s pretty fu**ing impressive." So yeah, I can see why she's mixed-up. I turned out to actually BE pretty awesome, so that means it was on her this whole time (to at least some extent). She's afraid that it will all fall apart again, and be her fault?

(That was in early September, by the way, so a fair bit of water under the bridge between then and now, but... .)

[MapleBob]

She likely knows herself well enough to know how terrified she feels about being abandoned. This is a genuine threat to self! If she holds love at a distance, she lessens the chance that she will be devastated by abandonment. While at the same time desperately wanting to love/be loved. While being afraid. While wanting to love.

Ah, bingo! That makes sense. There's also the added uncertainty of "Well, what, he's going to try to move here again, for me? With all this risk and uncertainty and what I've put him through? Oh, or we'll do long distance for a while, which didn't work that well in the first place?"

I have a feeling that she also doesn't want to have to explain to her friends/family what she'd be thinking in dating me again. She's pulled out the "What would you tell someone else who was in our position? 'Cos I'd tell them that they're nuts!" card a few times.

[MapleBob]

Or, y'know, take the simplest explanation: she doesn't want to be with me anymore, but doesn't want me to stop paying attention to her sometimes. When it suits her.

[MapleBob]

Well, today's the day. Wish me luck. 

Any last-minute advice?

[livednlearned]

Have fun 

[MapleBob]

Have fun 

I'll let you all know how it goes. My game plan is to stop any negativity dead in its tracks.