I really need advice on communication

[cherryblossom]

I need advice/suggestions/tips on what to do -I'm so so tired trying to work this all out

I'm trying to be as brief as poss -but enough to give sense of problems

We split September time -we had a rented property -I had to leave because he left me no choice -started increasing drinking/self harming-in front of me/drug taking -refusing to communicate and resolve problems usually would try -totally dug self into hole -refused to meet me half way-got diagnosed with BPD -already diagnosed with ocd

fast forward to now -several weeks of n/c interspersed with some communication around the time i needed to move out stuff -him saying he thinks he is evil and he hates himself- then he being banal with texts when Ive tried to be very open hearted -upsetting me -or being drunk in first stags of break up so no real conversation could take place - or me bombarding him with texts when first split as I couldn't understand the abandonment -he  had me believing for most of relationship he was totally devoted to me and encouraged me to think that -I totally opened my heart to him which was a brave strong thing to do - and he has shat all over it -but I still love him and if he said to me he wanted to change and made proper changes I would love to be with him. When he is not acting like this he is the best person to be around and - we have similar backgrounds which means his opinion of me is more important than anyone's as he is a survivor like me

however -am scared to death as well as don't know how to communicate so that things do go back towards healing our relationship - I don't want to make things worse but I want him to know how much I still love him, how much he hurt me, ----but then if he is not coming to me saying all the things he needs to do to change and he recognises what he needs to do-should i be wasting my breath?

I want to say how could he fall into role of controlling abusive angry man so easily when it was everything he was against? Does he recognise what he is doing? -the next step in his treatment was therapy to build self -but he imploded at that point -why did he feel engulfed by me? Im a very independent person -I want him to have independence from me -im not a clingy person.

It is so depressing to think of him being a lonely man because he fell into role of controlling/abusive man that he was always against

will he be able to take any of this on board -or will it make him defensive and go into denial more -get more angry?



He has been manipulative with some communication recently -i.e saying he wishes I waited to take name of contract -I replied saying that text hurt me on so many levels and it was abusive and unacceptable - he replied apologisin saying yes it was out of order sorry -just drunk and frustrated -wont do it again -i replied to say i appreciate you recognising that thank you, however there is no valid excuse for abusive behaviour towards me of any sort

he sent a text Tuesday saying "hey, just sorting things out -is there anything you want you can think of?"


There are so many things i want to say instead of an answer to that question. I had planned to have n/c for at least 30 days and see what happened in between this text has thrown me -I think I'm reading way too much into it

What is that question really about ? I have all my stuff -I left a few bits but nothing I miss or need.

I don't want to meet him or go to the flat to pick up goods that will be upsetting

Is he trying to show me he is getting back to his real nice self?

Is he disrespecting me by sending me this message? -I have said that Ideally I don't want him to contact me now as we don't have a relationship and I only want to hear him say he has made a terrible mistake and wants to get back on track


Is he trying to manipulate me because he feels shame at his previous behaviour? in this case is this an example of really controlling and dangerous behaviour to avoid interacting with?

Is he purely just asking a simple question?

Should I have hope?

shall i just keep on detaching?

I saw therapist Monday -i said then it feels so weird I actually feel like I am still with him -we haven't split -because of the huge ammount of love still in my heart for him -what if he still feels the same and we could get back on track -what does he need to do to prove that to me?/

I am so so confused and don't know what to do anymore

[cherryblossom]

after venting on my last post I decided to reply to his text sent Tuesday "hey do u need anything from flat x"

with -

"not that i can think of thank you, i'd find seeing you and flat upsetting."

just checked phone and realised I had a reply 1 hr ago saying "nothing but ghosts here anyhow"

Now my initial reaction is total panic -does he mean he is killing himself-therefore ghost of him will be found? or Does he mean that there are ghosts of emotions left? Ghosts of our relationship? Either way very unsettling and much different tone to how he has been communicating with me -again seeming to punish/control me

Why has he done this? -extremely painful -when earlier in week apologised for being emotionally abusive and promised he would not do it again -so he has totally overstepped my boundaries again - made me build up some hope that he was reflecting on his behaviour


Now how can we sort this out?

How can I make him see what he is doing but in a way he will not get defensive about?

Shall I send an email outlining exactly why that is hurtful -but he is not stupid

He dumped me -I didn't abandon him -I had to flee my home

I guess this is a behaviour relating to his anger?

I'm choosing right now to not respond to that message


He keeps doing this building me up and then dashing away. I think it is because he knows I still care -maybe I do just need to cut him right out -detach and try and forget and move on

[Turkish]

he sent a text Tuesday saying "hey, just sorting things out -is there anything you want you can think of?"

There are so many things i want to say instead of an answer to that question. I had planned to have n/c for at least 30 days and see what happened in between this text has thrown me -I think I'm reading way too much into it

About the NC, did you communicate this boundary clearly to him so that he understood?

[cherryblossom]

No i didnt because 2bh i have no idea what im doing - my emotions change all the time. I guess i can now say im asking that we not speak for 30 days now - however i will need to speak to him about flat stuff - it is the flat that is making yhings messy as its an excuse to communicate.

Im angry as he had siad last week he understood he was being totally unfair with the emotional abuse and he wont do it again but he has

[Skip]

I still love him and if he said to me he wanted to change and made proper changes I would love to be with him. When he is not acting like this he is the best person to be around and - we have similar backgrounds which means his opinion of me is more important than anyone's as he is a survivor like me

I don't want to make things worse but I want him to know how much I still love him, how much he hurt me, ----but then if he is not coming to me saying all the things he needs to do to change and he recognises what he needs to do-should i be wasting my breath?

Going "no contact" is not a relationship recovery tool and makes no sense if you are trying to recover this relationship.

You moved out because he was drinking. It makes sense now to be nice (but separate) and to probably meet with him for lunch in a few weeks to talk about things.  Give both of you time to process.

Does that sound right?

[cherryblossom]

Yes thanks skip - i needed some guidance i was just getting so confused with all the tools, strategies, llanning, thought that is needed. I know i obvs have my own issues to b reacting so anxioysly obsessively about it.

I sent a message saying it sounds like he feels uncomfortable, but please dont send me cryptic messages as they upset me. Please use other resources wh

[cherryblossom]

Sorry using mobile phone... .it went weird

Text con... .

Please use other resources when feeling bad. Pls no contact unless constructive or about flat. Please a break for 6 weeks and then hopefully we can have a proper heart to heart conversation.

Hope that sounds ok. If we cannot talk properly then i.e if drink too in the way or he is not interested in recovery i will properly commit to detachment work and healing. Thanks for letting me think out loud and for giving me a virtual slap i was hysterical about it all - clouding my judgment about it all. Thanks

[livednlearned]

Hi cherryblossom,

How did things go with your response?

You doing ok?

[cherryblossom]

Hi LandL

Thanks for checking in with me, along with support from friends, family and creative/ self care activity this board is very important to me and it feels really good to be asked that from a member here -so thank you again.

My brain literally felt like it was frying when I accessed the board with this particular thread.

I have had no response from ex yet.

I did follow up the text I sent with another this am as felt the other one i sent although calm and firm just felt too dry. ( The wording was not quite as brief as I put up on here)

I sent this today am:

I'm sending this as hope its constructive. The last message felt too dry. I'm not an expert on dealing with this. I'm researching and reflecting on what's happened as much as poss. I'm realising I'm not as mature with my own emotions as I thought, and that I still frequently operate from my child self in relation to others. I feel we both met with burgeoning maturity and self respect. I met you as a resourceful, constructive, independent, intelligent man. I'm sure you're trying to figure all this out too. I'm just trying to do damage limitation. We are both hurting. I made the previous suggestion to help protect my feelings and stop further harm to both. I'll be on holiday 29th dec-5th Jan so if i don't respond to anything constructive then it's because I'm away. I hope we can grow and learn from this experience.

No answer yet-but not really expecting any right now-that is worrying me quite a bit -I was saying to a friend today part of me is scared he is in the flat dead -because of the text he sent me about nothing but ghosts here -but she thinks he means ghosts of our relationship -he knows how sensitive I am though -I think he sent that deliberately to worry me -however he did say leading up to our split he would not end his life- he wouldn't do that to his family.


Doing that text today has put me at some peace as I don't think I can say anymore than that -I feel it is compassionate to us both, I am becoming more ok either way if we were to give a go or if not. I will get upset if this boundary gets violated -however if it does I think that will be the final nail in the coffin/penny dropping moment for me.  I will not hate him but I will know I gave my best shot at decent communication and that he is really too in deep end of problems to respond constructively-therefore will fully accept it as over.

I've been trying to use the guidelines of the winners triangle to help so far  in our post break up communication (once over the initial horrific heart wrenching shock) along with the advice on this specific thread I've received.

I have been looking at my own issues and how we developed this loaded bond. We met at a time when he was reeling from experiences with ocd and trauma imposed by NPD father. I am a survivor of emotional neglect from uBPD/unpd mother and co-dependent dad. I'm not saying completely starved of love but she was/is a very unpredictable mother-and at time we met she had been ignoring me for best part of year as I couldn't make a dinner plan she had made! (with a very reasonable excuse!)

My ex and I genuinely fell deep in love -but if I am honest I know I was being emotionally immature with it -I had very healthy realistic attitudes towards relationships before exBPD -as I'm very into personal growth and healing- however the connection with exBPD was so so strong -I thought he was my salvation! He had a picture on his wall which he found on the street which had same colours and patterns as the band we met in-all just added to the mystery and magic of our attraction/chemistry/bond. We would often say we felt we knew each other for centuries, in past lives for eternity -he called it the pinnacle of love. I don't think the love has gone -it is just a very childish idea of love that although lovely -not sustainable if one party goes completely out of control. Plus we are both from families with generations of pain patterns. I'm determined to break the chain -he was too. I am older than him and I think we are on same paths -I just think I'm further down than him -I saw a lot of myself in him and allowed myself to regress back into old ways of thinking/feeling that felt very familiar -but should have known better -but I deny anyone to feel the intensity of what I felt and walk away from it.

Leading up to the beak up he was making strange suggestions that we act as if we were best friends rather than lovers for a time -as I was like his best friend - i was so confused and hurt by this ( didnt know BPD at this point )

The last time I saw him face to face he was drunk -he said he loved me and deeply attracted to me but didn't want a relationship with me -he tried to have sex with me -he burst into hysterical tears -he was all over the place -it was horrific. We have not had a proper conversation since this has all happened and I do not have much hope of this realistically, but I saw glimmers of the respectful person in some of his recent texts.

We soothed each other and enjoyed each other when we met -however his mh problems became more exacerbated and he imploded therefore we are where we are today.

we keep on living and learning -some more than others I think!

x

[livednlearned]

Hi cherryblossom,

I will get upset if this boundary gets violated -however if it does I think that will be the final nail in the coffin/penny dropping moment for me.

Can you say more about what boundary you're referring to here? Trying to follow along  and don't want to make assumptions.

[cherryblossom]

sure -I'm referring to the texts i sent more or less requesting please no contact for 6 weeks unless to do with the flat or something constructive and then hopefully we can have proper heart 2 heart

[cherryblossom]

I've just been getting so upset by his communication -as it feels he is refusing to "relate" to me - when we had related so well together before

[cherryblossom]

Since split it is a mixture of being- banal, nice/empathic, emotionally manipulative, emotionally abusive, excuse making, passive aggressive,  giving silent treatment and missing/avoiding the main points of what I've been trying to say

all damaging / confusing to me -getting in way of repairing and / or detaching and healing

I've made this boundary now as final attempt to perhaps get some decent communication with him taking personal responsibility if not I can fully focus on healing / detaching from that point ( which I am doing anyway but still feel controlled and my heart enters my mouth any time I get a text from him or I have to text-never know what response I'm going to get -rubbing salt into old wounds )

[livednlearned]

Ok, I understand 

There has been an emotional crisis (you had a bomb dropped on you, learned he is BPD, fled his home -- this is a lot), and it's been a challenge to regulate your emotions.  And now you are setting limits.

You want to recover the relationship, at least ease it out of free-fall, and somehow land things gently. He is going to need some help from you here. This:

Ideally I don't want him to contact me now as we don't have a relationship and I only want to hear him say he has made a terrible mistake and wants to get back on track

is asking a lot. He has said he "feels evil and hates himself." Because of BPD (self-loathing, unstable sense of self, impulsivity, emotional regulation problems) there will probably be a rainbow of behaviors, wants, needs as he copes. People will BPD are slow to return to emotional baseline, and if he is self-medicating with alcohol, that adds lability to his moods.

You have let him know you are setting limits. Boundaries are there to protect you, not to control him.

Now is a good time to process your feelings, do some repair and recovery on your own. Mindfulness can be very useful when you receive a text that gets your heart pounding.

The vacation is 

[cherryblossom]

Yeah i know I wish i hadnt sent that but i was just being completely  honest with how i felt at the time. I ensured i said this is how i feel right now. I thought it was good to role model saying exactly what u feel. I can  c how that might seem controlling but now i can genuinely see my part - and am more accepting.  When u say a long time do u mean like months or years?

He has said split is for best in text around that time few weeks ago. I just think he is saying that as cant see any other alternative right now.

I think im being naive 2 think he might come around to clearer communication in 6 weeks?

Mayb im on wrong board as 2bh. I can't see him stopping drinking now as his father was alcoholic i thing he is following his footsteps and i dont want to b with an alcoholic

He has clearly given up i feel i should just accept it - just so hard when i get considerate texts which are flashes of the real him

[cherryblossom]

U r right i do feel lot more peace since putting that boundary - i have searched my heart and i can say i have put it in place to protect me and not control outcomes. It would b a pleasant bonus if he had settled down more by then to have decent convo.

[livednlearned]

Yeah i know I wish i hadnt sent that but i was just being completely  honest with how i felt at the time. I ensured i said this is how i feel right now. I thought it was good to role model saying exactly what u feel. I can  c how that might seem controlling but now i can genuinely see my part - and am more accepting.  When u say a long time do u mean like months or years?

Slow return to baseline means emotional reactions last a long time, and can get continually reactivated long after the stimulus is gone. If the environment is invalidating, or if there are comorbid issues (like drinking), this can complicate a return to baseline. We can often take these things personally, and react, and this can feed their loop.

He has said split is for best in text around that time few weeks ago. I just think he is saying that as cant see any other alternative right now.

I think im being naive 2 think he might come around to clearer communication in 6 weeks?

Giving yourself a time out to process and regulate your own emotions is really wise! You can only center yourself. He may be also be triggered by holidays, it's hard to say. Maybe getting together in the New Year will be less fraught for him.

Right now, you want him to do some explaining and apologizing and defending himself. He can't do that right now, and given his shame, he might not be able to do this in a way that meets your standards. He knows he has pushed you away, and knows you have seen the worst of him -- there will be a lot of shame, a difficult emotion for any of us to feel. That first meeting might need to be light, to re-establish the tone of your friendship/relationship.

Mayb im on wrong board as 2bh. I can't see him stopping drinking now as his father was alcoholic i thing he is following his footsteps and i dont want to b with an alcoholic

It's good to know this value. Even knowing that he is an alcoholic, do you want him in your life as a friend?

[cherryblossom]

Oh regardless i dont think we'l ever b able to be friends. I don't believe that works. I've got plenty friends. I just want to have a proper conversation. In a dream world id want him to really take stock of everything and see the light about his destructive behaviours and make firm steps to sort himself out. In reality i dont think thats likely to happen - hes burnt bridges with new friends apparantly, he's not accepting help from fam, " everyone hates him" apparantly in text few weeks ago when he wound me up by not putting the rent into my account on the day i specifically asked - causing stress to me. I think he's probably having to go to live back with his mum -

[cherryblossom]

Which is in a different area and shes moving soon but to b nearer his sister - which is in a nice chilled hippyish part of the country nice countryside which he loves- his sis is lovely mayb he will heal there.

Its just so hard as i know il never meet anyone i get on with as well as him and we had made plans to move to that part of the country together but i cant wait around forever for him to start process of real change

[cherryblossom]

We wont b able to b friends if he heavily drinks as he becomes too out of control - it will b 2 difficult for both x

[Grey Kitty]

I've made this boundary now as final attempt to perhaps get some decent communication with him taking personal responsibility if not I can fully focus on healing / detaching from that point ( which I am doing anyway but still feel controlled and my heart enters my mouth any time I get a text from him or I have to text-never know what response I'm going to get -rubbing salt into old wounds )

You are obviously hurting, and obviously vulnerable. Despite that, what you are calling a boundary doesn't sound likely to have a good outcome for you, and isn't the kind of boundary enforcement that will protect yourself.

You can enforce a boundary to protect yourself. If you believe his contact will be hurtful to you, you can disconnect and avoid hearing anything from him. That would prevent him from saying something hurtful.

Telling him that you only want a particular type of contact for the next six weeks is setting a rule that puts him in control--It is his decision what to say to you for the next six weeks, and you cannot control that in any way. (Given his history and mental illness, honoring that request is somewhere between a tall order and impossible for him.)

[cherryblossom]

Ok well im just going to have to see - im not an expert. This situation is painful regardless - its just my little attempt to try and make things bit better - i askedfor advice - skip said it made sense to be nice but seperate and suggest meeting. I think its just part of a process i have to go through to finally make me properly let go plus we have to communicate about flat so im just trying to get him to stick to that and not send me anything hurtful in between he has shown some remorse and id like to give him benefit of doubt. I am coming more to the realisation this will end with me completely cutting off contact and

[cherryblossom]

Moving on

[cherryblossom]

At end of day i could b on wrong board but i feel like i need to be given a break because i feel so confused im just reaching out for support advice like i thought i was able to on here and not feel attacked for making errors in my actions

[Grey Kitty]

  Feeling hurt and confused sucks. And happens at times like this. Been there plenty too. 

I apologize for any way my words left you feeling attacked.

What kind of support would you like from me (or others here)?

[cherryblossom]

ok thanks -I'm not in best place, so feeling sensitive and not entirely robust -sorry if I took it in wrong way

it felt really nice when lived and learned sent me a simple message saying -how you doing? what happened? -as I know people on here have similar traumatic experiences -it is nice to feel acknowledged and accepted not to be shamed because i made a potential error - i don't think you meant to do that, like I say you'll have to please forgive me

I went on this board as it says it is for saving a relationship in break up -making me feel with my reignited bit of hope from his respectful contact that actually it is possible to save it with certain strategies being employed.

But I'm getting confused as I feel like what people are saying on here is that what I am doing is trying to control something out of my control -so I'm thinking why is there a board for saving a relationship that is in breakup? If you are suggesting he is too unwell what is the point in this board? Maybe I'm missing the point or misunderstanding the purpose of it?

I wanted advice on how to deal with the situation. I felt I needed to act fast. Beginning of last week I felt in love and connected with him -my brain and heart literally convinced we were still together-(because of the text he had sent that was respectful.) Then he sent one out the blue about do i need anything-(but he knows i got all my stuff) - so that really confused me -when i replied in a civil way he sent a cryptic message that hurt me.

So I felt i needed to give some sort of feedback on how his behaviour is affecting me and show some sort of boundary -which you are saying isn't actually a boundary. I would like to think he will respect whatever it is I have done by sending the message I did- if he doesn't I guess I'll have to reassess and perhaps post on here with an update and advice. It's a bizarre complex situation I find myself in. I think it is normal to try and make some sort of sense / order out of it -even if futile

It is hard for my brain to understand what the hell is going on -as humans we are hardwired to attach and we had a very strong attachment

[Grey Kitty]

I went on this board as it says it is for saving a relationship in break up -making me feel with my reignited bit of hope from his respectful contact that actually it is possible to save it with certain strategies being employed.

But I'm getting confused as I feel like what people are saying on here is that what I am doing is trying to control something out of my control -so I'm thinking why is there a board for saving a relationship that is in breakup? If you are suggesting he is too unwell what is the point in this board? Maybe I'm missing the point or misunderstanding the purpose of it?

This particular board is brand new, and I'm pretty sure we are all trying to figure out how to use it best right now.

But that isn't the point of these forums. It isn't about where a post belongs. Yeah, that is worth sorting out, but in the end, I really don't care.

These forums are here because people like you need support, and can come together and support each other. Let me see what I can do. (Think I'll start a new reply for the important part--what you need)

[livednlearned]

Hi cherryblossom,

You have really good instincts and you have self-care skills, it comes through  

When we control our own behaviors (assert boundaries to protect ourselves, for example), it's vital for us. It also has an effect on them.

When we try to control their behaviors (set ultimatums, make demands, settle a score) it rarely works. Often makes things worse. We suffer.

This is a strategy.  

You taking care of you right now will likely have an effect on him. We don't know yet how positive the effect. It's safe to assume that he's not going to ace any ultimatums any time soon. Not now while things are in free fall.

Do what you're doing -- give yourself time and assess things. The only tweak is to lower any expectations that he can conform to ultimatums or conditions or demands or pressures. He's spinning through all his defense mechanisms and being impulsive, most likely can't pull it together. He might in a few weeks when things are more stable.

It's triage.

[Grey Kitty]

I wanted advice on how to deal with the situation. I felt I needed to act fast. Beginning of last week I felt in love and connected with him -my brain and heart literally convinced we were still together-(because of the text he had sent that was respectful.) Then he sent one out the blue about do i need anything-(but he knows i got all my stuff) - so that really confused me -when i replied in a civil way he sent a cryptic message that hurt me.

So I felt i needed to give some sort of feedback on how his behaviour is affecting me and show some sort of boundary -which you are saying isn't actually a boundary. I would like to think he will respect whatever it is I have done by sending the message I did- if he doesn't I guess I'll have to reassess and perhaps post on here with an update and advice. It's a bizarre complex situation I find myself in. I think it is normal to try and make some sort of sense / order out of it -even if futile

It is hard for my brain to understand what the hell is going on -as humans we are hardwired to attach and we had a very strong attachment

Your brain and heart are hurting. You don't know what to do, don't know what you want.

Just wanting the pain to go away is very real, but that's not a useful action plan. Until you have a bit better idea what you want, it is hard to say what you should do. Still, here are a couple thoughts for you.

1. You felt the need to act fast. However, I think you will be OK if you act slowly, and likely choose better actions if you allow yourself some time.

If this delay is all it takes for him to completely give up on you and move on, then it probably is for the best in the end. You want to be in a relationship with somebody who cares enough about you to wait a little while you sort yourself out. Or at least somebody who can come back and accept you.

2. You'll make the relationship work better if you are able to be consistent with him. Mixed messages and push-pull games aren't fun for anybody. So if you allow yourself time to find your own peace, you will be able to give him a more consistent response.

[cherryblossom]

Thanks LnL I feel like you get me and understand me-thanks for recognising my instincts as important

Thanks GK for your advice on going slow


I thought that I was being consistent by sending the last text as-I have let him know if he sends me anything hurtful, non constructive or not about flat I wont be responding-which I thought was necessary to stop triggering abandonment fears. I thought what I had worded was a very fair, even tone -it really didn't feel like i was trying to control at the time-I felt it was a way of showing I'm respecting myself


I accept the pain - I am not running from it - I use mindfulness exercises daily, I go to a therapist seeing her tommorrow actually so can mull over with her as well

I feel I do know what I want but its dawning that even if happens it will probably not be possible in the timeframe I would like, so therefore accepting over is best way forward but cant quite bring myself to do that right now so giving myself this 6 week "break" - a miracle is not going to happen in that time so i'll have to let go at that point

I think the overall theme is that I probably should have not said anything - I had planned on just holding back from communication for 30 days at least -however earlier in the thread someone asked me had I communicated directly with him to say I was going NC for a month at least?

so I feel like I'm getting mixed messages on this board which is confusing for me


I'm sure the confusion on here and with situation will settle down and I'll make sense of these strategies and advice

I am confident things will improve for me either way

will post progress good or bad