they expect "perfection" from everyone except themselves

[byfaith]

of course this is only one incident out of many... .not sure how to handle these kind of things, need some help.

Sink was full of dishes last night as it is the majority of the time. I went to wash them and my wife said don't do those I will do them later. In my mind I thought probably not but I stopped washing them. She was nice with her request. I didn't want to wake up to a sink full of dishes while making my coffee etc. Anyway to avoid a fight I didn't do them.

I get up this morning sink is full of dishes. sigh! There was a note on the stove that said "sorry for not cleaning the kitchen" anyway no biggie I guess. There was a casserole dish that was sitting on the other counter with something that needed thrown out. I went ahead and did that and then ran some some water in the dish and set it on the counter. I left for work. My daughter (22) came up and apparently moved the dish into the sink compounding the pile of dishes. She was just moving it so she could make coffee I assume.

Fast forward a couple of hours I get a group text from my wife that included a text to my daughter about what not to do next time. Don't leave a dirty casserole dish in the sink and if you do make sure you rinse it out. Now mind you the 2 that have committed the "offense" were getting up and getting ready for work. I could see my wife getting upset if this was a continual pattern or if she had cleaned up the kitchen the night before.

What my issue is 1.the hypocrisy of all of it  2. I let things slide with my wife as far as not saying anything to her about the kitchen or any other things she lets go because of her depression, she normally goes off on me if I do. Dent matter how nice I say it.

I know this sounds trivial but its really isn't because of other dynamics going on. My wife seems to have no problem stating what she wants but if I would say anything in a nice constructive way about the dishes all hell will break loose.

She did come back with a thank you text over the dish when an explanation was given and she did say thank you for someone folding and putting away towels. Some "sick"part of me feels like "ok don't say anything to her about anything because she will come back with a well I left an apology note for the kitchen and told you all thank you for the dish and the towels"

I seem not to be able to express ANY disapproval of her actions in any way.

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[EmotionalWarfare]

Well, strap yourself in buckaroo!  Sounds like whatever you do it's gonna be a hell of a ride.  He He He!  I sincerely wish I could read your post and not relate to any of it but the sad truth is that I do relate.  You have kind of answered your own question here when you stated... ."I seem not to be able to express ANY disapproval of her actions in any way."  I guess just decide to choose your battles.  I live by the wonderful mantra of this... ."If you have low expectations, you can not be let down."  If my wife decides to help in any way, great!  If not, then it's no different than any other day.  Good luck my friend!

[babyducks]

Hi byfaith

You have heard of JADE right?  You don't want to justify argue defend or explain.    If you do want to express your feelings and thoughts,  a lot of I type statements are the place to start.    When I get up in the morning I want to get my coffee and out the door with a minimum of fuss, so I will clear a space for coffee making.

Be ready with a back up statement for what you anticipate her reply to be.  Again not a JADE,  something validating but firm.  Maybe a SET,  it's an endless job to keep up with the kitchen,  and it can be frustrating too, that's why we should keep ahead of it by doing it every evening.

What do you think?

[EmotionalWarfare]

Great advice babyducks!  I usually try to deploy these argument eliminating tactics but sometimes my patience wears thin or she says something to get me going.  It's a full time job finding patience and using good communication skills but it's worth it.

[byfaith]

this is where I get stuck many times. She will say something to me and I will have this look on my face like I don't know what to say, I frustrate myself. Like last night she was going on and on about someone on Facebook that she just friended and they were posting some stupid stuff ,not bad, but she was irritating me on the inside so I said "just defriend them" She looked at me like I just smacked the phone out of her hand, you could have said it nicer she said. I didn't say it mean but I didn't say it like a patient person either. I came to her about 15 minutes later and validated her. I admitted I could have said it differently.  

You are saying to let her know the reason I wanted to do the dishes is that it is convenient for me? or anything along those lines just not dishes? They just don't listen to reason a majority of the time.

I was "ok" with the dishes left but what got me was her text about the uncleaned dish we left because we didn't have enough friggin room to wash that dish.  

[babyducks]

I try to be wary of twisting myself into a pretzel trying to match what can or can't be understood.    Or in other words some times smashing a few eggs shells is not a horrible thing.  Being afraid of a dsyregulation can keep me from expressing myself.    But, that doesn't stop the dsyregulations.  So I pick my battles like EW said and convey my message in the best, healthiest, way I can.   If it's important to me I usually can find a way to reach an agreement.

[Notwendy]

I would say, no, you can not express disapproval directly. It isn't that you can not disapprove. It is that, IMHO, this kind of thing does not work. To me, what works is actions, but they need to be actions from the heart, not as a means to get approval or good behavior, or be seen as the "good guy".

Dishes? Well that dishes ship sailed long ago in my house. The dishes are mine. They would stay in the sink till the end of time. Sometimes I leave it, but if my H didn't like it, he could do them. Judging from his kitchen in college with him and his room mate, I don't think either of them did the dishes 

I gave up that discussion. I don't know why he won't do them. I could argue/discuss/ forever, but it has not worked for me.

I also have to give up being "perfect" Been there done that with BPD mom, and my father. It didn't work. I have to accept that I am human, not perfect. However, I try to be a good person according to my own ethics and values. Others in the family may benefit from that. I value being a mom, and I value my marriage vows, but it isn't in hopes of getting recognition or even a thank you. It is because I feel better about myself if I strive to follow my ethics.

A lot of work on co-dependency has helped me see what is something I can control and what is their stuff to deal with. Finding something "wrong " with the best I can do, is their problem ,not mine. All I can do is my best. The seeing something wrong with what you try your best at is a sad condition for them, because the "wrongness" is their projection of their own poor self worth, their own feelings and looking at you as if you caused them. A much as you may try to fix this, it isn't yours to fix.

A good read is "stop caretaking the borderline" . Caretaking is doing something for someone that they are capable of doing themselves. For instance, if a friend is sick, then taking care of them until they are better is not caretaking. Doing someone's laundry and picking up after them, if they can do it themselves, is caretaking.

A way to look at caretaking is that, it really isn't the nice thing to do for someone, as it makes them more helpless and less capable of taking care of themselves. Caretaking is actually self serving- it keeps the peace for us, and is a way to try to manage their feelings. However, we can't manage someone else's feelings.

If you were to not do the dishes, and she pitched a fit, then she would have to manage it . The challenge is us being able to take it. Of course this is hard to apply if the risk of physical abuse is there- then one has to take care of one's safety. But if we WOE to try to manage the rage for someone else, then they don't learn to deal with that.

Then, there is always paper plates 

[Icthelight]

Then, there is always paper plates 

Welcome to my humble abode 

Yes, paper plates, plastic forks, knifes, spoons and cups are all we use (except Thanksgiving and maybe Christmas). Initially, I thought we were throwing our money away but I soon realized that I didn't want to fight regarding dirty dishes. If we could buy throw away pots and pans, we'd probably have those too.

[Notwendy]

My dad took us out to eat all the time!



One of my friends was from a large family. Her mom cooked for a crowd. I would get all excited about the things she made-as if they were delicacies. I don't know what she thought when I would get excited about corn bread and jello but we didn't have those things at my house.

I like to cook  :)ishes, not so much!

[CrazyChuck]

I seem not to be able to express ANY disapproval of her actions in any way.

Nope, sure can't. This is almost weekly for me. Including the "disapproving" group text.

[waverider]

pwBPD know the right way things should be done, but they find doing the right thing too hard so they don't start as they can't stand a part job. That represents failure, not starting is an excuse to avoid failure.

If a job is done, it is judged against a perfection standard, so your efforts are judged. If she did the job it would also be judged against "perfection", this adds to their feelings of failure.

It is tied in with avoidance as a coping tool for distress intolerance (a less then perfect job creates distress). This can be drummed into them by parents who have a perfectionist trait. Near enough is good enough is an alien concept to them

[Indiegrl]

pwBPD know the right way things should be done, but they find doing the right thing too hard so they don't start as they can't stand a part job. That represents failure, not starting is an excuse to avoid failure.

If a job is done, it is judged against a perfection standard, so your efforts are judged. If she did the job it would also be judged against "perfection", this adds to their feelings of failure.

It is tied in with avoidance as a coping tool for distress intolerance (a less then perfect job creates distress). This can be drummed into them by parents who have a perfectionist trait. Near enough is good enough is an alien concept to them

Waverider - I can totally relate to the defensive position of rather not doing anything than risking failure. I do not like that trait in me, being so afraid of failure and making mistakes that I do not even try. Procrastination and avoidance... .all too familiar... .does that make me a pwBPD? I hope not 

Would recommend this article for a funny but insightful take on procrastination: www.markmanson.net/procrastination

[IsItHerOrIsItMe]

Yeah, my w does not handle anything negative very well... .not matter how it's expressed.

I was the cook in my first marriage... .now my w is a stay at home mom.  I cook some, but I've told her it frustrating to have to spend the first 15 minutes cleaning anytime I want to cook.

She'll say I'm selfish and that in "her family" they help each other... .realistically it's mom cleaning up because the kids don't 99% of the time (if we go away for the weekend you can tell everything the kids ate by what's left around the kitchen).

I've just started only cleaning up her stuff, and leaving my step-children's mess alone... .passive aggressive?  Probably, but I can dream that it will one day sink in... .